STATE OF OHIO COUNTY OF TRUMBULL … OF TRUMBULL LORDSTOWN VILLAGE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ... John McCarthy, ... No. I represent John and Tina Thompson…

1

STATE OF OHIO

COUNTY OF TRUMBULL

LORDSTOWN VILLAGE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS

PUBLIC HEARING

MONDAY, MAY 13, 2013, AT 5:30 P.M.

IN RE: CASE NO. 13—02

OMEGA REAL ESTATE, LLC, IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO PERMIT

A DISTANCE OF LESS THAN 200 FEET OF THE NEAREST PORTION OF A DWELLING

FROM THE KEEPING, SHELTERING, HARBORING, RAISING, BREEDING,

TRAINING, FEEDING, CARING OF, TO INCLUDE PASTURING, GRAZING,

ROAMING OR OTHER USEFUL PURPOSE OF ANY ANIMAL WHICH IS SITUATED

IN AN R—1 ZONING DISTRICT, WHICH IS LOCATED AT 6174 HIGHLAND AVENUE,

LORDSTOWN, OHIO.

APPEARANCES:

Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals

Arno Hill, Mayor

John McCarthy, Council Member

Richard Rook

Paul Dutton, Solicitor

Denise L. Dugan, Assistant Planning &

Zoning Administrator

On behalf of Appellant:

Joseph Dorma, Omega Real Estate, LLC

PLACE: Lordstown Administration Building

1455 Salt Springs Rd.

Lordstown, Ohio 44481

REPORTER: Sharon K. Vigorito (330) 442—1009

2

PROCEEDINGS

Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting

(WHEREAS, the Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals meeting

commenced on Monday, May 13, 2013, at 5:30 p.m. and proceedings

were as follows:)

MR. ROOK: I'd like to welcome you all to the Lordstown Village

Board of Zoning Appeals meeting. I'd like to start out with the

Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, please.

(Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

MR. ROOK: Denise, you want to take the roll call, please.

MRS. DUGAN: Yes, sir. Mayor Hill?

MR. HILL: Present.

MRS. DUGAN: Jeff Croyle? (NO RESPONSE—ABSENT.) Mr. McCarthy?

MR. MCCARTHY: Present.

MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Rook?

MR. ROOK: Present.

MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Tura? (NO RESPONSE—ABSENT.) Paul Dutton?

MR. DUTTON: Present.

MRS. DUGAN: Dave Harrison? (NO RESPONSE—ABSENT.) And I'm

Denise Dugan.

MR. ROOK: Can I have a motion from one of the Board members to

excuse those that are absent?

MR. HILL: So moved.

MR. ROOK: Second?

MR. MCCARTHY: Second.

MR. ROOK: All in favor?

THE BOARD: Aye.

(VOTE: 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.)

MR. ROOK: Motion to approve the agenda we have for this evening?

3

MR. MCCARTHY: So moved.

MR. HILL: Second.


THE BOARD: Aye.


MR. ROOK: Motion to approve the minutes from the January 11, 2013,

meeting?

MR. HILL: So moved.

MR. MCCARTHY: Second.


THE BOARD: Aye.


MR. ROOK: I'd like to read to you the Scope and Jurisdiction of

the Board. It's as follows:

(The Scope and Jurisdiction of the Board was read in its entirety

by Chairman Rook.)

Your statements at this public hearing are not the only basis for

determination of this request. This Board represents not only the

vocal group at a public hearing, but also those many citizens who

do not attend or speak at hearings.

The decision of the Board shall not become final until the

expiration of five working days from the date of the Board's

approval.

The procedure for the public comment aspect of our hearing is as

follows: All speakers will be sworn in. All speakers must step

up to the microphone and state your name and address for the record.

All persons speak in order one by one. No open discussions and

no cross—examination. The appellant makes the first statement.

Those in favor speak first; those against speak next. Rebuttal

by appellant is then permitted. The members of the Board then have

the opportunity to ask for clarification and/or additional

4

information. There is a last call for new and additional

information that has not been previously stated.

Denise, would you like to read the case.

MRS. DUGAN: Yes. Omega Real Estate is requesting a variance

to permit a distance of less than 200 feet of the nearest portion

of a dwelling from the keeping, sheltering, harboring, raising,

breeding, training, feeding, caring of, to include pasturing,

grazing, roaming or other useful purpose of any animal on property

which is situated in an R—1 Zoning District, which is located at

6174 Highland Avenue, Lordstown, Ohio.

The meeting was set for May 13, 2013, at 5:30 p.m. The appropriate

deposit was paid. A legal ad was run in the Tribune Chronicle. And

the abutting property owners were notified by certified mail. I

believe —— I'm sorry. I don't know your name —— is here to

represent Omega.

MR. DORMA: Thank you. My name is Joseph ——

MR. ROOK: We need to swear you in first.

MR. DORMA: I'm sorry.

(Mr. Joseph Dorma was sworn in by Chairman Rook.)

MR. ROOK: Please state your name and address.

MR. DORMA: Joseph Dorma, 1223 Gibson Street, Youngstown,

Ohio.

MR. ROOK: Go ahead.

MR. DORMA: Thank you. I'm here to answer the request —— or

make a statement for the request of the zoning variance on our

property at 6174 Highland Avenue. We've made significant

improvements since acquiring the property. I think the abutting

property owners can attest to that. More recently, we just put a

new barn on the property. We are herding cows there. We have six

cows —— five cows right now —— for grazing purposes. We

respectfully request that the setback variance of 200 feet be

5

viewed at so that we don't have to incur any additional expense

in moving fence line on the property and so forth. We do have a

responsibility to PCL Energy Resources, who have a gas well on the

property. We have to give them access to the property for land

maintenance. We also have, on the other side, Ohio Edison, which

has rights to the land for servicing their utility lines. So

that's basically what we're asking for.

MR. ROOK: Question for you. Before the fences were installed,

were you aware of the Zoning Ordinance?

MR. DORMA: No, sir. We were not to be honest with you.

That's something we probably should have researched a little more

detailed.

MR. HILL: I have a question. Are you the property owner?

MR. DORMA: No. I represent John and Tina Thompson, who are

the property owners.

MR. HILL: And you are?

MR. DORMA: Omega Real Estate.

MR. HILL: I was on the Board when this 200 foot was put in. And

the reason this was put in was because even though we are rural,

we have a lot of people with long, deep lots who felt they had enough

acreage to keep animals. In order to protect the neighbors, that's

how they came up with the 200 foot.

If there's 38 acres there, is there a hardship that they cannot

keep these animals 200 foot away from the neighbor's dwelling?

It's not from the neighbor's property line ——

MR. DORMA: Right.

MR. HILL: —— it's from the neighbor's dwelling.

MR. DORMA: Right.

MR. HILL: Is there a hardship there?

MR. DORMA: Yes. We would have to install internal fencing to

maintain the 200 feet.

6

MR. ROOK: When was the fence installed? Do you have a date?

MR. DORMA: I believe it was August or September of last year.

MR. HILL: According to our timeline, which was given to us by the

Planning and Zoning Administrator, on September 12, 2012, property

owner, Mrs. Thompson, called the Police Department in reference

to a neighbor causing a problem with a new fence. After that it

says, "It was in this time period when Mrs. Thompson was advised

about our Zoning Code prohibiting the harboring of animals closer

than 200 foot from a neighboring dwelling. Mrs. Thompson did state

that she was aware of our Zoning Codes, and believe she further

explained at that time that she raises Bull Mastiff dogs, and they

would not be loose to run the property line.

MR. DORMA: That's correct.

MR. HILL: So she was aware of that at that time. What's changed

since then?

MR. DORMA: To be quite honest with you —— that was in September

of last year?

MR. HILL: September 12 ——

MR. MCCARTHY: September 12th.

MR. DORMA: I'm not aware of that, I'm sorry. I think some

issues came up since that time regarding the fencing and the

location of it. I'm not sure that she researched what the

Ordinance read and how it read. As far as her matters with the

police, I'm unaware of that.

MR. MCCARTHY: My understanding was that the Zoning Administrator

did question her about it. Asked her if she did know the Zoning

Codes, and she said she was well aware of them. That's what she

said. If that is true, she went right ahead and put the fence up

for the cows anyway.

MR. DORMA: Well, the cows have not been there that

long. They've only been there about four months. And I can't

7

speak to what she knew in September. I'm not an attorney. I'm

just an employee of the company.

MR. MCCARTHY: But you're here representing ——

MR. DORMA: Yes, sir ——

MR. MCCARTHY: —— them today?

MR. DORMA: Yes, sir, I am.

MAYOR HILL: According to this —— we have the whole time frame

here —— they applied for three zoning permits. One for a principle

dwelling. You cannot have an accessory building, which can be

a garage or a barn or shed or something like that, without a

principle dwelling. The principle dwelling, has it been started

yet?

MR. DORMA: No. It's in the —— I believe they're going to start

construction sometime in the latter part of June.

MR. MCCARTHY: They received a permit on July 2, 2012, for the

residence.

MR. DORMA: Yes, that sounds about right.

MR. MCCARTHY: I think since that time, they've built a barn?

MR. DORMA: Yes, sir.

MR. ROOK: You can't have an out—building without a residence

there on the property.

MR. DORMA: Like I said, I believe that they plan to start

construction fairly soon.

MR. DUTTON: My name is Paul Dutton. I'm the Solicitor for the

Village. I'm not a member of the commission, but I do have a

responsibility to advise the commission. I wanted to clarify the

record because there is a record here. In the packet of material

that was circulated, reference was made by Mayor Hill to three

zoning permits. The first one, Zoning Permit No. 003321. This

is a permit issued on July 3, 2012, to erect —— it was issued to

Tina Thompson —— to erect a single—family dwelling, estimated

8

valuation $190,000 at 6174 Highland Avenue. The Zoning Ordinance

requires that that construction commence within six months of the

issuance of the permit. Otherwise, the permit, by its own terms,

will expire. That doesn't mean that it cannot be reissued, but

it means that the permit has expired.

MR. DORMA: I understand that.

MR. DUTTON: This will be Village Exhibit 1.

(Village Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.)

MR. DUTTON: On the same date, two additional zoning permits

were issued. Number 003322 to Tina Thompson for a storage building

at 6174 Highland Avenue, estimated value of $3,200. I believe you

testified, or someone stated, that that storage building was

constructed.

MR. DORMA: Yes, sir.

MR. DUTTON: And that's called an accessory building.


MR. DUTTON: The third document is the third permit that was

issued on the same day, July 3, 2012, for a storage building/dog

house. This is No. 003323, to be constructed at 6174 Highland

Avenue, valuation $31,430.


MR. DUTTON: The conundrum that those you are representing face

is that you cannot have an accessory building if you don't have

a principle residence, or at least under construction. The zoning

certificate for the principle residence has expired. The

applicant here, Omega Real Estate, is asking for a variance for

a situation where there's a current zoning violation for which

there's no authority to have the accessory buildings present

without the principle building. So, procedurally, I cannot see

how this Board can even entertain this application. What would

need to be done would be to either remove the accessory buildings

9

and then you're dealing with pasture land or reapply for the zoning

permit to commence the construction of the dwelling. Then the

applicant can come back and ask for a variance under those

circumstances.

MR. DORMA: Okay.

MR. DUTTON: That's without getting into the merits. If you are

going to get into the merits, someone needs to read Mr. Harrison's

comments on the seven standards for granting the variance. But

I don't even think you should go there. That's my advice to you.

MR. ROOK: Where does that leave it for the cows that are pastured

there now?

MR. DUTTON: Well, the cows cannot be within 200 feet of an

inhabited dwelling, which means a residential structure. It can

be within 200 feet of a garage, an out—building. But if they are

within 200 feet of an occupied home, they have to be relocated.

And I realize we're dealing with livestock, which means you either

remove the cows or you put up another fence so it is within 200

feet. I mean, it's not something that this Board can deal

with. The cows would have to conform to the code. I realize we're

dealing with animal livestock, but people are responsible.

MR. ROOK: That would have to be done now, correct?

MR. DUTTON: Yes. There is a zoning violation ——

MR. ROOK: Until construction starts on the house.

MR. DUTTON: Right. There is a zoning violation. If it isn't

done, then there are fines and so forth.

MR. DORMA: Can I ask two questions, please? One is as soon

as the construction of the house commences, does that allow us to

comply with the existing Ordinance?

MR. DUTTON: Well, you would then have standing to come in here

and reapply for a variance. That doesn't mean ——

MR. DORMA: You're going to get it ——

10

MR. DUTTON: —— that they're going grant the variance. I'm just

saying you don't have standing now because you're in violation of

the current Zoning Ordinance. What's out there shouldn't be

there.

MR. DORMA: Question number two, then. How much time do we

have to put a containment fence along the property lines?

MR. DUTTON: If they wish to grant that —— in other words, if

you requested it, they would establish a time period. Normally,

they're very reasonable. In fact, sometimes they're more than

reasonable. Entering into summer here, I would imagine that

whatever amount of time reasonable people would have to construct

the fence. Certainly not six months. Probably less than a month.

MR. DORMA: I'm just trying to find out some idea of

approximately how much time we have before we start getting hit

with fines and so forth. We want to avoid that at all costs.

MR. DUTTON: Right.

MR. DORMA: Obviously, we're going to incur quite a bit of

additional expense that we hadn't anticipated by putting an

internal fence ——

MR. DUTTON: And the fence just has to be, in those areas, where

you can measure 200 feet from the residence.

MR. HILL: If you get to the corner of the residence house, you want

to draw a straight line 200 foot, as long as they're 200 foot away.

And that was put in to keep away the odor, the smell, the flies

or anything like that. That was the reason that was put in.

MR. DUTTON: But putting up the fence, in and of itself, doesn't

solve the whole problem. Because if you don't have a principle

structure, a house ——

MR. DORMA: I understand.

MR. DUTTON: —— you can't have an accessory building. So the

next shoe to fall would be an order to remove the accessory

11

building. You've got livestock there that probably needs those

accessory buildings.

MR. MCCARTHY: Mr. Solicitor, would it be proper before we

establish a timeline or something of that nature, that we hear from

the residents or citizens that are against and for the variance?

MR. DUTTON: As a courtesy, yes. But I don't believe you're in

a position to make a decision ——

MR. MCCARTHY: Not on the variance but at least hear ——

MR. DUTTON: As a courtesy, you could hear what they have to say.

MR. MCCARTHY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to hear them.

MR. DUTTON: But after his testimony, you need to make sure ——

see if there's anyone else in favor of the variance even though

it's premature.

MR. ROOK: It's my understanding at this point you have intentions

of starting construction on the house in the immediate future?

MR. DORMA: I think sometime, perhaps, between the middle and

end of June is the latest date I have. A lot depends on weather

conditions, and the building industry is sort of fickle.

MR. DUTTON: They need to go down and get a new zoning

certificate for another six months.

MR. DORMA: That can be done within the next day or so. There's

no problem there. The comment you made earlier, I just want to

clarify as far as housing of dogs. I think something was read about

it.

MR. ROOK: That's what she told the Zoning Inspector.

MR. DORMA: The truth of the matter is Mrs. Thompson raises

Mastiffs. She raises them in her home in Poland. They're show

dogs, primarily. I don't quite understand why she put that as part

of the nomenclature, so to speak, or a description of what she was

using the housing for.

MR. DUTTON: It's in the application in her handwriting.

12

MR. DORMA: Right. I understand. We may have to address that

and make some corrections to it. Just for the record's sake, I

just wanted to bring that up. The other comment that was made I

think by some neighbors —— I'm not sure who —— we certainly have

no intentions of putting hogs on the property, you know, and

creating a cesspool of environmental problems out there. That's

not part of this. What we have as far as cows right now is

essentially the livestock. We will address the application for

the new building permit. And I will get come clarification for

the Board when they're going to start. I just don't have anything

more specific. I'd like to leave with some idea, approximate

amount of time we have to comply with that variance or should we

wait until construction begins until we apply?

MR. ROOK: How long do you think it will take to put the fence up?

MR. DORMA: Well, there's an added dimension to this. Back on

April 21st, there was a fire on the property of one of our neighbors.

It fell some trees on fencing, which sent the fencing to the ground

and created quite a bit of brush damage. The fence was damaged;

trees were fallen; grazing grass was destroyed. We are waiting

for our neighbor's adjuster to get in touch with us, hopefully

sometime this week, to find out what the damages are and see what

needs to be done. We know that there's several hundred feet of

fencing that has to be replaced, existing fence that was damaged

by the fire. As far as how much fencing we have to put in there,

I will say this, I take your suggestion to heart in going to the

nearest pin location of the property and measuring because we could

conceivably have a lot of fencing outside that 200 feet minimum.

We would have to look at locations where it infringes on that 200

feet to see how we have to reconstruct or reposition the fence to

be in compliance.

MR. HILL: According to the map I saw, you don't have that many

13

—— I believe there's probably three houses which ——

MR. DORMA: I believe we have six neighbors.

MR. ROOK: In one of the photos, Mr. Harrison had suggested that

a secondary fence could be put in a relatively short length. He

had made that suggestion already to Mrs. Thompson. We even have

a picture right here.

MR. DORMA: I have a photograph of that, as well. What I'm

stating is we're going to have to resurvey the property to make

sure that we put in a minimum number of feet of fence to be in

compliance with the abutting property owners.

MR. ROOK: If you put that fence in, then this whole procedure here

goes away, right? You're no longer in violation.

MR. HILL: As long as they put the house up.

MR. ROOK: Right. The house has to come up in order —— you can come

in here and talk to us. If you put the fence up, you no longer

need that. My question then becomes, what happens to the cows

between now and when you get the fence put up?

MR. DORMA: We have a caretaker, I guess you could say, that

comes out daily and checks on them. I'm looking at something here

that we could do relatively quickly. I'm not talking about

something that's going to take weeks and months. I'm saying we

can move fairly quickly on getting the fence lines repositioned

to comply with the Ordinance. I just can't give you two days, five

days, a week. I'd have to ——

MR. ROOK: If you came in and told me six months, it probably would

be an issue. If you just told me it could be a month, maybe that's

something we could discuss.

MR. DORMA: I would say a month on the outside. Just so I have

a clear understanding now, that's step number one for us is to

reposition the fence line. Step number two is to reapply for a

building permit on the construction. If —— I'm sorry. Go ahead.

14

MR. ROOK: I don't know if there's an order to those. Do the cows

need to be removed because they're in violation now? The

out—buildings are also in violation because you don't have the

house started. You need to apply for the house permit I would say

immediately.

MR. DORMA: Okay.

MR. ROOK: Is that correct?

MR. DUTTON: Well, just look at the factual situation, you do

not have a valid permit to construct the house.

MR. DORMA: That's correct.

MR. DUTTON: They can't construct the house without the permit.

Let's assume for the sake of speculation, we're not talking about

the house. We're talking about cows, a fence and accessory

buildings. If the house isn't there, the accessory buildings have

to go.

MR. DORMA: Understood.

MR. DUTTON: And whether the house is there, whether the

accessory buildings are there, the cows have to be fenced within

a distance of 200 feet. You could have open pasture land with cows,

no accessory buildings, as long as they're within 200 feet from

a residence. So, the cows, I think, are the first priority.

MR. DORMA: That's the point I'm trying to make. We can come

in tomorrow and apply and pay the fee for a building permit on the

dwelling. To get this thing off dead center and be in compliance

with where the cows are now —— we certainly don't want to move them.

MR. DUTTON: Why couldn't you do both at the same time?

MR. DORMA: I don't see any reason why we can't to be quite

honest with you. But, as you know, sometimes the littlest things

fall through the biggest cracks. And I don't want to leave here

tonight and go back and say this is what we should be doing and

what we shouldn't be doing. I'd like to get the whole thing off

15

of dead center and get moving so everybody's happy.

MR. DUTTON: Well, they're going to meet in a month. Maybe what

they might want to do is give you 30 days and meet back here in

30 days ——

MR. DORMA: That would be fine.

MR. DUTTON: And if they're satisfied, move forward. If

they're dissatisfied then ——

MR. DORMA: I would just like our people to go out there and

take exact measurements on where internal fencing or new fencing

has to be reinstalled. Obviously, we know there's an expense in

putting up fencing. It's considerable. We certainly don't want

to be spending thousands of dollars putting up fencing needlessly.

At the same time, we can apply for a building permit for the

residence. I'm not saying those two can't go in tandem. The main

issue seems to be the cows right now, and I'd like to get that

addressed starting tomorrow.

MR. HILL: As far as how much time we're going to give you, I can

agree with Mr. McCarthy. I'd like to hear if residents want to

come up and say —— give us their views. Then after that, if this

Board would like to give you a time frame or whatever. But I would

like to hear from the residents.

MR. MCCARTHY: I'd like to hear that, also. And I can tell you,

I don't know if you've seen that picture or not ——

MR. DORMA: I have, sir.

MR. MCCARTHY: If that was my house, you'd have to unscrew me out

of the ground.

MR. DORMA: Understood.

MR. MCCARTHY: Because I would be very, very upset. That's why

I'd like to hear from the residents. Because I'm sure that the

sooner those cows are gone, the better.

MR. DORMA: Or moved.

16

MR. MCCARTHY: Or moved. That's what I'm saying. I ——

MR. DORMA: We have a right to keep the cows there as long as

we're within the Ordinance.

MR. MCCARTHY: Right. As long as you're within the Ordinance.

That's kind of where I'm heading is how long would it take you to

either get the cows back more than 200 feet and then you can apply

with the housing and the out—building, or haul them out of there

or whatever. What kind of time frame would you like in order to

comply with just getting the animals out of there? I really want

to hear from the residents because I'm sure ——

MR. DORMA: I'd like to hear from the residents, too, because,

quite frankly, I'm not technically oriented to tell you how long

it takes to put up "X" number of feet of fencing. I'm not sure

what the lead time is on a contractor coming in and doing it. So,

you know, I mean, it sounds simple enough, but I would hate to give

you a timeline and then not fall within that time frame. I would

like the opportunity to make a few calls and find out.

MR. MCCARTHY: It would only take a day or so to come in and load

them on a truck and put them somewhere else.

MR. DORMA: Where do you put them? I know you could say that's

not ——

MR. MCCARTHY: That's not our problem.

MR. DORMA: We don't want to move the cows, sir.

MR. MCCARTHY: Okay. Understand.

MR. DORMA: But we will adjust the fencing issue. I just can't

tell you right now whether it's going to be a week, two weeks, ten

days, three weeks. I just don't know.

MR. ROOK: We may have some direction —— we'll hear from the

residents.

MR. DORMA: Okay.

MR. ROOK: Anybody else in favor of it? (NO RESPONSE.) Let me ask,

17

who would plan to speak? Those that are planning to speak, we'd

like to swear you in all at one time. So, if you'd stand, please.

MR. HILL: Even if you don't think you're going to speak, if you

might speak, you might want to get sworn in.

(Those present wishing to speak were sworn in by Chairman Rook.)

MR. ROOK: Thank you. Who would like to speak first?

MR. HILL: Sir, you can take a seat.

MR. ROOK: Please state your name and address if you would, please.

MRS. SCHRADER: My name is Donna Schrader. I live across the

street at 6471 Highland Avenue. I want to say some things, but

I want to read it. First, I want to read you the letter I got from

the Thompsons. My name wasn't even spelled right. This letter

is dated June 1, 2012. "We recently purchased land on Highland

Avenue that abuts your property. We will be building a house this

summer and moving into it sometime in the fall. Additionally, we

are turning cattle out. Consequently, we are fencing the property

all in the boundaries set out in the survey completed in May," which

was 2012.

So, here's what I have to say. Back on June 4, 2012, a pickup with

Michigan license plates pulling a trailer loaded with steel with

two Latinos pulled into my driveway at 7:30 that evening at the

farmhouse at 6049. They wanted to know where the building was

going to be built that they had the supplies for. They had an

address but couldn't find it so assumed it was my property. I told

them it was not for me but to go next door to the house south because

that was about where that address should be.

They couldn't find the drive. They pulled down into my property

down by my pond and had their vehicle and trailer on my property.

I went down and informed them they could not park there. They found

how to enter the property and from that time, say, 8:00 in the

evening to the next morning, that building was up in the woods next

18

to me, which would be the smallest building.

Now, isn't the procedure for this letter normally for Lordstown

Village to send out a letter, not the property owner stating that

cattle is going to be turned out? During the fence construction,

my completely legal fence, along with many trees on my property,

several feet in on my property that had held black Angus cows years

ago were destroyed. The tree line was over 100 years old and had

survived several owners between the properties, except now.

I had to have my property surveyed. It was surveyed in 2011 through

my husband's estate. Except for two surveyor stakes of mine, the

rest of my survey stakes done at the end of 2011 were all taken

down. The fence company put up orange tape wherever they wanted.

This brings up another question. There is a state rule that says

if a fence is put up by one property owner, the owner on the other

side cannot use that fence to house farm animals. Now, since these

people took down my fence —— granted it wasn't a good fence, but

it was a legal fence —— does this rule still apply?

From my understanding of the zoning laws, a fence for cattle needs

to be more than 200 feet from houses. There is a home next to my

farm that is enclosed on three sides with fencing closer than 200

feet to that home. I do know that our six properties —— three on

one side of the road; three on the other side of the road —— are

within that 200 feet. I have observed six cows on this property.

Six cows graze the fence line.

Are there any utilities on this property? Especially water for the

animals. With no water, electric, gas or sewer on the property,

how can you have cattle being property taken care of? There is

a creek going through the property. According to the EPA, cattle

cannot be around that creek. Is this creek the water supply for

these cattle? It is my understanding, also, that this creek flows

into the Mahoning River. Since Lordstown sewer line goes along

19

the front of the property and there are two buildings on it, should

they be connected to the Lordstown sewer? I haven't seen a grinder

pump installed. According to the letter I received, a home was

to have been built last fall. Logically, wouldn't the utilities

had been installed first? By the way, should there be a street

number on this property? How far back from the road must that fence

be?

Across the street from this fence acreage, there are four homes

that abut my farm. Here is what I do with these. There is a farmer

that plows in the back of the home. He doesn't plow right up to

the property line. He probably plows 10 to 14 feet, something like

that, in. All four of those homes use that property of mine. They

know that; I know that. They're taking care of it. There's no

problem. That's how we do things.

I do not know of another situation such as this one where so many

property owners have voiced opinions about this property. There

usually is no need to. I, for one, object to the variance to permit

—— "to permit a distance of less than 200 feet of the nearest portion

of a dwelling from keeping, sheltering, harboring, raising,

breeding, training, feeding, caring of, to include, pasturing,

grazing, roaming or any other useful purpose of any animal which

is situated in an R—1 Zoning District."

I'm aware there are two property owners that did receive letters

who are working and wish they could have been here to express their

opinions. If this variance is given, I feel there will be

continued unrest in the future regarding this situation. The

fence in the front along the road is the width of the ditch from

the road. The home across the street are 200 feet from the fence.

Does anybody know how long this code has been in affect? It must

be a working code if it's been in affect for a while, so why change

it now? Thank you for listening to me.

20

One more thing, this is the picture of what I used to have before

the trees were taken down. That was a legal fence line. According

to Ohio statutes, the legal fence line can be a tree line. That's

what it looked like. It doesn't look like that now.

MR. ROOK: Were those trees on your property?

MRS. SCHRADER: Part of them were on mine; part of them were on

theirs. And I understand they have the right to take it down. But

that's what it used to be.

MR. DUTTON: Do you want to give your written statement to the

stenographer?

MRS. SCHRADER: It's not exactly what I said.

MR. DUTTON: It's not exactly what you said?

MRS. SCHRADER: No.

MR. DUTTON: All right.

MRS. SCHRADER: Thank you.

MR. ROOK: Appreciate your comments. I don't know if we can

address all of your questions, but we appreciate your comments.

MRS. SCHRADER: I appreciate the fact of being able to say something

finally.

MR. ROOK: Would the next person like to speak? Name and address,

please.

MR. DENNO: My name is Jerry Denno. I live at 6259

Highland. I got the same letter she did and everybody else did.

I'm a neighbor of Rick Biggs. I have an "L" shape and his fence

comes around in an "L" shape to mine. So the two sides of my

house —— I have pictures of the fence line and the cows. The cows

are about 50 feet from my house right now and about 10 feet off

my driveway, directly behind —— that's my house right there.

That's my house.

He came up to me and he said he was going to put the fence on the

line, two feet off the line. I never knew about the cows. He said

21

he was putting the cows there, but I was under the assumption that

was just to keep them from escaping his land. I assumed he was

going to keep the cows someplace else considering he has 40 acres.

I had to pay him $1,600 to move the fence where it's at right now.

I had to pay this man $1,600 just so I wouldn't have gotten boxed

in. The cows wouldn't have been two feet off my line. So, I

definitely object. I don't know if he can move the fence where

it's at now. It definitely needs to be moved in 200 feet from my

house —— it's 50 feet from the side of the house and it's 178 feet

from the back.

MR. ROOK: I don't know if the fence itself is an issue ——

MR. DENNO: Right. I understand that.

MR. ROOK: The fence may stay and the animals may be moved ——

MR. DENNO: Right. I understand that.

MR. HILL: Or there may be an interior fence put in.

MR. DENNO: Right.

MR. HILL: As long as they're 200 foot from the house ——

MR. DENNO: Absolutely.

MR. HILL: —— because that was put in to stop the odors and flies

and everything else. Like I said, we have several lots —— I'll

call them spaghetti farm lots —— they're long and deep. You know,

when we did have one person come up and say what about my house?

I said, you could have livestock bunking with you for all we care,

just respect your neighbors.

MR. DENNO: Right. That's all I wanted. And I wish he would

have been more honest with me about putting the cows right there.

Otherwise, I would have looked into the zoning and I wouldn't have

had to pay him the $1,600. He probably wouldn't have put two fences

up to begin with. I can't see him boxing in two fences considering

one is 178 feet and so he's going to put a fence behind another

fence 22 feet away from each other? That's where that back fence

22

is going to be. If he moves that other fence inside the back fence,

it's going to be 22 feet from the other fence if he puts it the

200 feet off the line.

Like I said, if he would have been honest, I would have looked into

the zoning. I assumed him being a businessman, he would have

looked into something like that and not do all this and

inconvenience everybody and me paying the money and stuff. I do

have pictures of where I stand and what I look at every day.

MR. ROOK: We drove by and we've seen it.

MR. DENNO: You guys already know.

MAYOR HILL: We've seen the picture, and I've driven by there.

MR. DENNO: All right. That's all I have to say about it. Any

questions?

MR. ROOK: Thank you.

MR. DENNO: Thank you.

MR. ROOK: Next?

MR. KING: My name is Douglas King. I live at 6300 Highland

Avenue. I'm totally against it. He says five cows; he has six

cows. He says four months that they've been there; they've been

there since December. Property damage, he says when he put the

fence up, they dealt with the people around there. He brushed

hogged my property. He made a big joke about it. I called the

cops. There is a police report. Everything this guy has been

doing is behind the ball. You guys, he's not doing what he needs

to do with permits. To me, the buildings can be took down and he

can reapply for everything. That's the way I feel with this guy.

It's not right what he's doing. It's not right how he's getting

around everything. I'm sorry, but that's where I stand on it.

MR. ROOK: We appreciate your comments. Next?

MS. ARLOW: Kay Arlow, 6050 Highland. I live across the street

from the property. I just want to verify or speak out on the fence.

23

It took a week or less to put it up because I was at that fence

line every day in a golf cart watching the guys, watching them take

down the brush, watching the mud on my sister's property on the

farm property, what they did when they took out all the brush, and

what it's done to the property now with the brush gone —— her brush,

and how the water is trickling down into her pond and down into

the drain in the front and everything. It's totally changed it. I

guess that's all I want to say at this point.

MR. ROOK: Thank you. Anyone else?

MR. DENNO: I do have another question. Can I come up? I had

a question. If he moves to the other fence on the side there, if

he moves the other fence, and he builds another one inside there,

is he legally allowed to keep a barbed wire and electric fence on

the outside of there being that it's not containing the cattle

anymore? Because I have a special—needs son that plays right there

every day. There's a basketball hoop right there. My driveway's

right there. He rides his bike. And there's an electric

fence. He can reach his hand right in there. There's no signs

showing it.

MR. DUTTON: I don't know the answer.

MR. DENNO: I was just wondering because, like I said, I thought

there was a law that you had to only keep barbed wire and electric

fence if it's containing the cattle. So if you put another fence

inside that and it's no longer containing that cattle.

MR. DUTTON: We'll refer that to our Zoning Inspector.

MR. DENNO: Okay. I was just wondering. And, as far as the

hardship of him moving that fence for his cost, me and Rick Biggs

had already paid him our money in case we moved or pass away. He

has money up front to move the fence right to the line. He has

the money; we paid him the money to build another one. Just to

let you guys know. That's all. Thank you.

24

MR. ROOK: Anyone else? (NO RESPONSE.) I guess at this point, if

you're looking to give some type of response to you on a time frame,

come up with something reasonable. Don't want to leave it

open—ended. So these people have something, I guess we're looking

for suggestions for a reasonable time frame.

MR. MCCARTHY: I'd like to make a statement to some of the

residents who came up and spoke. As far as property damage and

that is concerned, that's for another venue. That isn't something

we'd do here. That being said, I'll make a motion that we —— just

as far as the cattle are concerned —— that they be in substantial

compliance within 30 days from today's date.

MR. ROOK: I'll second the motion. Roll call.

MR. DORMA: Can I make a statement? Are you through with the

procedural ——

MR. ROOK: We're going to have a vote on it and finalize it.

MR. DORMA: Do you want me to wait then?

MR. DUTTON: He can make a comment.

MR. DORMA: I just want to say to the other property owners that

I duly note the issues and the concerns and the complaints that

they have. I am going to take them back to the owners. I will

meet with them tomorrow. We want to be good neighbors here. We

really do. You know, whatever we need to do to correct —— some

situations that occur perhaps were out of our control. Mainly,

people showing up with trailers to put up pole buildings and

whatnot. You have our apologies. That's not our intent. That's

not the way we do business. So I will take it back to the property

owners and discuss it. My apologies.

MR. ROOK: I do think a gesture of good will would be perhaps if

there's something out there that causes issues —— an electric fence

is no longer needed —— some consideration may be needed.

MR. DORMA: Yes. And I understand the special—needs

25

people. I understand the concerns there. That could be as simple

as de—electrifying that section of fence if we have to build an

internal fence. As far as building a fence, I can tell you it will

be at warp speed. It's something that's not going to drag out 30

days. Thank you.

MR. ROOK: We have a motion and a second to give them 30 days, and

they can report back to the Zoning Inspector when the fence is

completed.

MR. MCCARTHY: Just for the cattle only. The buildings and so

forth are a separate issue.

MR. DORMA: We understand there has to be a new permit applied

for.

MR. ROOK: It's been seconded. Can we have a vote, please.

MRS. DUGAN: Yes. Mr. Hill?

MR. HILL: Yes.

MRS. DUGAN: Mr. McCarthy?

MR. MCCARTHY: Yes.


MR. ROOK: Yes.


MR. ROOK: Any other comments or questions that anybody wants to

throw out? Anything else we need to do?

MR. DUTTON: I think you need to instruct the Zoning Inspector

that if an application to renew the certificate to start the house

is not made within the same 30—day period, that he take affirmative

steps to have the out—buildings, the accessory buildings removed.

MR. ROOK: That needs to be placed as a motion?

MR. DUTTON: I would do it as a motion because they are parallel

issues. The testimony was that there would be an application and

the house would be under construction forthwith.

MR. MCCARTHY: I'll make that motion that the house will also be

26

in compliance with the permit within the time frame of removing

the cows in 30 days.

MR. DORMA: That's for the application, the permit?

MR. DUTTON: Right. If you're not —— 30 days from now, if

there's no progress on the permit for the house, then you have a

violation of those out—buildings.

MR. DORMA: I understand. I'm saying I can't —— you're talking

about a permit within 30 days?

MR. DUTTON: Not building the house.

MR. MCCARTHY: Just the permit.

MR. DORMA: I understand.

MR. DUTTON: The permit gives you another six months.

MR. DORMA: Yes, sir. I understand.

MR. ROOK: And I'll second that motion. Do you want to go ahead

on the roll call.

MRS. DUGAN: Mr. McCarthy?

MR. MCCARTHY: Yes.


MR. ROOK: Yes.

MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Hill?

MR. HILL: Yes.


MR. HILL: We want to be good neighbors, too. These are all going

to be the new neighbors. The reason that zoning, you know, it's

there to protect them and to protect the people coming in later.

MR. DORMA: I can give you a hundred reasons why a lot of things

didn't happen and very few why they did happen.

MR. HILL: Can he make another comment?

MR. DUTTON: Public comments ——

MR. KING: I was going to ask, when you guys did that, what were

the fines they were looking at anyways on failing to comply with

27

the permit? I mean, because you're looking at, what? Almost 11

months? So six months for the permit and so it's five months for

not having it and not doing anything with it? I mean, it's kind

of laid back here. I mean, when it failed and the out—building

was already there, there should have been some type of fine going

on is what I was asking.

SOLICITOR DUTTON: At this point —— the clock starts running on

a fine once there's a citation. The permit expired so there was

and is a violation. Until the Zoning Inspector issues a citation,

then the fine starts to run. It's so many dollars —— I can't say

what it is, but, like, $100 a day until you remove the out—building.

But it's not retroactive because there was never a citation issued.

MR. KING: So he can just get away with it, and they're just

going to hand him a new permit?

MAYOR HILL: If he gets a new permit but then he does not build

in six months, after that —

MR. KING: He already did that once. That's what I'm trying to

understand ——

MR. DUTTON: But we have a lot of people ——

MR. KING: Now we're going to let it go ahead and let it go again,

and we're not dealing with the violation that's already out there.

That's what I'm trying to understand why we're not dealing with

what is out there now.

MR. DUTTON: On the building ——

MR. KING: You recognized it ——

MR. DUTTON: —— there are numerous instances where you obtain

a zoning certificate to construct a home and for whatever reason,

financing, you bump against the six month or you exceed the six

months. So, the village, as in most communities, will reissue

zoning permits to construct a residence. What should not have

happened here was the accessory buildings should not have been

28

constructed before the principle residence. But there was no

citations issued. There will be a citation issued within 30 days

because of a second motion if they are not in compliance.

MR. KING: So maybe we need to address that in the paperwork when

anybody applies for that again so this doesn't happen again.

MR. DUTTON: On the issue of whether or not ——

MR. KING: No. When you build a house ——

MR. DUTTON: What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

MR. KING: Yes.

MR. DUTTON: The chicken should come first; namely, the

residence, before you build an accessory building.

MR. KING: I'm just trying to clarify so it doesn't happen again.

MR. ROOK: I think in one of Dave Harrison's comments in some of

the literature sent to us, they allowed the out—buildings to be

constructed because the housing permit was issued also.

MR. DUTTON: Same day.

MR. ROOK: So they assumed that everything was going to go up at

the same time. So they weren't worried, again, which went first

or second.

MR. KING: That should be clarified that they'd be in violation.

I'm just trying to help you guys in the long run.

MAYOR HILL: Basically, now, if he comes in in 29 days and gets

the building permit —— I'm sure he's going to be in the next week

or two I'm assuming. When he comes in for that, the six months

starts. After that, if there's not a reason why they do not have

that, then they're in violation and then once the citation is

issued, then the courts will handle that.

MR. ROOK: One of the things that this Board has set up is 30 days

from tonight, if some of that has not taken place, Mr. Harrison

will take action at that point.

Any other public remarks? (NO RESPONSE.)

29

Motion to adjourn.

MAYOR HILL: Second.


THE BOARD: Aye.


MR. ROOK: Thank you.

MR. HILL: Appreciate everybody coming this evening.

(WHEREAS, THE PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE VILLAGE OF LORDSTOWN BOARD

OF ZONING APPEALS ADJOURNED AT 6:25 P.M.)

30

STATE OF OHIO )

)

COUNTY OF TRUMBULL )

I, Sharon K. Vigorito, a Notary Public, within and for the

State of Ohio, do certify that the foregoing meeting before the

Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals was written in the

presence of witnesses and by me transcribed. I further certify

that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript to the best

of my abilities.

______________________________

Sharon K. Vigorito, Notary Public

My Commission Expires May 9, 2017

STATE OF OHIO COUNTY OF TRUMBULL … OF TRUMBULL LORDSTOWN VILLAGE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ... John McCarthy, ... No. I represent John and Tina Thompson…

Documents