7th April 2011 Planning & Strategy The City of Edinburgh Council Waverley Court, Level G:2, 4 East Market Street, Edinburgh, EH8 8BG Dear Sir/ Madam, Re: Listed Building Consent Application 11/00394/LBC The Cinema Theatre Association would like to register a formal objection to the plans submitted by Duddingston House Properties for the former Odeon Cinema, Clerk Street. The Cinema Theatre Association is the national body for the protection and study of traditional cinema buildings. Our specialist expertise is sought by The Ancient Monuments Society, The Theatres Trust, The Twentieth Century Society, and The Victorian Society, as well as many local authorities, all of whom we advise on planning applications relating to cinemas. We also functioned as an adviser to the English Heritage cinema survey in 1999, as well as the similar listed building evaluation exercise carried out with Historic Scotland in 2007. 1. Background This application was previously submitted - in exactly the same form - as 08/00197/LBC. The CTA submitted an objection to this previous application - and also later successfully argued for it to be called in for consideration by the Scottish Ministers when it was narrowly, and controversially, passed by the CEC Planning Committee. For this reason, we consider that all of our previous specific comments and objections are just as relevant to this resubmitted application as they were to the original. They are therefore included as Appendix 1 to this letter, and should be considered as an integral part of our objection. 2. Connection to Planning Application On its original submission, this particular application was originally submitted at the same time as the corresponding full Planning Permission application 08/00197/FUL. It is normal practice for Planning Applications and the relevant Listed Building Consent Applications to be considered together - as they were originally with the 2008 application. We note that the Planning Application was submitted in 2008, and considered under the planning legislation and guidelines appropriate at that time. Since then, key elements of planning legislation, guidelines and practice - in particular the new, single SHEP document and the associated Managing Change in the Historic Environment Guidance document - have changed materially since the original submission. We therefore consider it unreasonable that a planning application and its associated listed building consent could, or should, be considered under quite different planning regimes, and would therefore strongly request that the current LBC be considered invalid, until an updated Planning Application is submitted to accompany it. Page 1 Cinema Theatre Association Scotland POST CTA Scotland, G/2, 311 Maryhill Road Glasgow G20 7XX EMAIL [email protected]WEB www.ctascotland.org.uk
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7th April 2011
Planning & StrategyThe City of Edinburgh CouncilWaverley Court, Level G:2, 4 East Market Street, Edinburgh, EH8 8BG
Dear Sir/ Madam,
Re: Listed Building Consent Application 11/00394/LBC
The Cinema Theatre Association would like to register a formal objection to the plans submitted by Duddingston House Properties for the former Odeon Cinema, Clerk Street.
The Cinema Theatre Association is the national body for the protection and study of traditional cinema buildings. Our specialist expertise is sought by The Ancient Monuments Society, The Theatres Trust, The Twentieth Century Society, and The Victorian Society, as well as many local authorities, all of whom we advise on planning applications relating to cinemas. We also functioned as an adviser to the English Heritage cinema survey in 1999, as well as the similar listed building evaluation exercise carried out with Historic Scotland in 2007.
1. Background
This application was previously submitted - in exactly the same form - as 08/00197/LBC.
The CTA submitted an objection to this previous application - and also later successfully argued for it to be called in for consideration by the Scottish Ministers when it was narrowly, and controversially, passed by the CEC Planning Committee.
For this reason, we consider that all of our previous specific comments and objections are just as relevant to this resubmitted application as they were to the original.
They are therefore included as Appendix 1 to this letter, and should be considered as an integral part of our objection.
2. Connection to Planning Application
On its original submission, this particular application was originally submitted at the same time as the corresponding full Planning Permission application 08/00197/FUL.
It is normal practice for Planning Applications and the relevant Listed Building Consent Applications to be considered together - as they were originally with the 2008 application.
We note that the Planning Application was submitted in 2008, and considered under the planning legislation and guidelines appropriate at that time. Since then, key elements of planning legislation, guidelines and practice - in particular the new, single SHEP document and the associated Managing Change in the Historic Environment Guidance document - have changed materially since the original submission.
We therefore consider it unreasonable that a planning application and its associated listed building consent could, or should, be considered under quite different planning regimes, and would therefore strongly request that the current LBC be considered invalid, until an updated Planning Application is submitted to accompany it.
Both applications could then be considered together, fairly, under current Scottish Government and Edinburgh Council planning guidelines.
As the previous planning consent is useless to the developer without associated LBC being granted, similarly applying for LBC would be worthless while the Planning Permission situation remains uncertain.
3. 2010/2011 Marketing Exercise
3.1 Independency of Valuation
Section 3.4 of the supplied planning statement states that the renewed valuation has "been the subject of comment and criticism from both the City of Edinburgh Council and Historic Scotland." Yet these criticisms have seemingly been swept aside by the applicant, because "[n]either party has commissioned its own valuation nor have they produced evidence of an alternative approach to valuation." This does not negate the criticism, though, - it is not CEC or Historic Scotland's job to commission valuations, rather it is up to the developer to prove the robust, independent nature of theirs.
Given that the revised valuation was performed by Colliers - who conducted the earlier valuations - it is inherently non-independent. In the revised valuation, it is admitted that the methodology and final figures are relatively unchanged. This is hardly surprising, since to do otherwise would be to admit that their earlier work was questionable and/or flawed. If DHP were genuine about wishing to ensure a second, updated and independent opinion regarding the value of the building, they would have considered instructing a separate firm to give them a true second opinion.
Given that Colliers have admitted to making few changes to their methodology, and have come up with a relatively similar valuation as their previous consideration, we consider that the criticisms that were applied (by HS, CEC and indeed the Scottish Government independent planning Reporter) to that original valuation still hold true.
3.2 Marketing exercise failures
The parties involved may well have agreed that three months was a reasonable timescale; however, it is notable that that the marketing exercise was held in midwinter, and came to an end over the Xmas and New Year holiday period. In particular, there was no electricity to allow interested parties to properly inspect and survey the building. No mention whatsoever is made of the fact that everyone who viewed it had to do so by torchlight or by bringing their own generators to power floodlights – a situation which can hardly have been enticing to many potential purchasers.
Additionally, Section 2.4 of the Final Planning Statement claims that "the further Marketing period was not done on the basis of reference to a specific price".
However, it would seem that it was in fact not true - both press reports at the time, and even the information sent to prospective bidders (e.g. feature in The Scotsman commercial property section on 3rd August 2010, or the letter dated 23 November 2010 provided in the Marketing Appendix) all reference a specific price - “Colliers International (Independent Valuers) have valued the Market Value of the property at £2.93M as at September 2010”.
Such prominent mention of the price, with no mention that it was under dispute, may well have put off other genuine potential bidders who felt it was more than they were willing to pay.
3.3 Condition of the building
The valuation survey, and condition report presented considered that the cost of remedial work to make the building wind and watertight would be around £50-100k, and removed 100k from the final value to account for that. That work, to our knowledge, has not yet been
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carried out – consequently, the building continues to deteriorate, meaning that this bill could, literally, increase every day. Having witnessed first hand the rapid and severe damage which an incident such as a burst pipe or rainwater ingress can cause to cinema buildings, we remain deeply concerned with every passing day in which the building is unoccupied and unheated.
The condition report, carried out in January 2011 by Colliers, also fails to note the widespread dry rot in the stage area under the former Screen 4 - something the CTA highlighted in a letter to DHP, Historic Scotland, and the CEC in October 2010, and which was also highlighted in the press at that time. That letter is included in Appendix 2, and should also be considered part of our formal objection.
Given that the Colliers building condition survey entirely missed this problem, which has the potential to spread destructively, this does rather cast doubt on how thorough the survey actually was, and how much effort was made to genuinely identify and consider the problems in the building.
All of these items would add to the cost of utilising the building in its current form, and therefore should have been taken full account in the updated valuation.
3.4 Bids Received
Section 3.7 (page 8) of the Planning Statement notes "The updated valuation carried out by Colliers International at February 2011 produces a revised figure of £2,830,000. The bids received on 5 January 2010 have been considered against this updated benchmark."
Half of that value would therefore be: £1.415M
Three bids (ignoring - as DHP have done - the leasing bid) were received, namely:New Victoria Bid - £600KElim bid - £1.45MAlan Scobie bid - £1.6M.
We note that two of the three formal bids received exceeded 50% of the Colliers Feb 2011 valuation, contrary to claims made by DHP to the press at the end of the marketing period.
3.5 Valuation Methodology Faults
The approach taken to place a price on the building seems to have been to take a random selection of buildings in a disparate set of locations (including London), some of which, like the Odeon, are B-listed structures in a variety of uses and with a variety of proposed end uses, all in a varying state of repair. The conclusion from this is - unsurprisingly - a disparate set of valuations varying from £63 - £202 per sq ft.
This seems an very simplistic way of working out the value of a listed building such as the Odeon. To presume that all B-listed buildings could have a similar intrinsic value per square foot is plainly nonsense. Applying a per square foot figure based on similar buildings is perhaps a valid method to value generic offices, factories or warehouses, but we strongly believe that it is far too simplistic for listed buildings, of which - almost by definition - no two are the same. The useful space inside such buildings varies wildly, as does the importance and value placed on the retention of individual elements of these structures. Buildings may be listed solely on the purpose of a strong streetscape contribution, despite having little of architectural merit behind the façade, whilst others may have plain exteriors masking rare or fine interiors. In each case, the value of a building in redevelopment terms will be highly individual, according to which parts will have the strongest presumption against irreversible changes.
In contrast to the examples chosen by Colliers in support of its valuation, we would suggest four other counter-examples - both to attempt to show how overblown the most recent
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valuation is, but also, and more importantly, to show how unscientific and random the buildings and prices highlighted in the Colliers valuation methodology are:
a) Former Lyceum Cinema, Govan - B-listed 2,600 seater with landmark corner entrance, in poor to fair condition. Sold for £285,000 on 13/12/2006 and then re-sold for £210,000 on 11/2/2010.
b) Former Plaza Cinema, Port Glasgow - unlisted, in good condition, seated approx 2,000. Sold for £100,000 on 8/10/2009 and resold again for £155,000 on 12/2/2010.
c) Former Savoy Cinema, Cambuslang - C(s)-listed, listed as around 9,580 sq ft, sold for just under £500,000 on 14/11/2008 (which works out at £52 per sq ft), now up for sale again at offers over £275,000 (or just £29 per sq ft!) (interestingly, this is actually being marketed through Colliers themselves).
This is currently for sale at £2.5m - a price that includes five shop units with sitting tenants paying rent. Without those, it is also available for offers over £950,000, comprising just the main auditorium and ancillary space, totalling 18,400 sq ft - which works out at £52 per sq ft.
4. Conclusion
Where the submitted valuation primarily falls down is that it has no regard to the presumption against demolition of the auditorium, as stated in the CEC planning statement. It also has no regard for the resistance likely to be met with certain licensed uses from local residents and the Council’s Licensing Board, and, most importantly, it appears to have had no regard to the length of time the building has already been on the market.
The Cinema Theatre Association believes that it is not a reasonable value of the worth of the building in its current condition, given the planning and licensing restrictions.
The application does not meet any of the SHEP tests set out that must be passed before demolition, or substantial demolition, of a listed building can be permitted.We believe the current application should be rejected for these reasons.
We trust that these comments will be taken seriously, and we look forward to hearing back from you in due course.
Yours Sincerely,
Gordon BarrScottish Casework CommitteeCinema Theatre Association
FAO Bruce HareDuddingston House PropertiesDuddingston HouseEdinburghEH15 1RB
Re: Former Odeon Cinema, Clerk Street, Edinburgh
The Cinema Theatre Association is the national amenity body for the protection and study of traditional cinema buildings. Our specialist expertise is sought by The Ancient Monuments Society, The Theatres Trust, The Twentieth Century Society, and The Victorian Society, as well as many local authorities, all of whom we advise on planning applications relating to cinemas. We also functioned as an adviser to the English Heritage cinema survey in 1999, and completed a similar listed building evaluation exercise with Historic Scotland in 2007.
The Cinema Theatre Association had the opportunity in October 2010 to accompany some interested parties on an arranged visit to the former Odeon cinema in Clerk Street, where we were able to survey the internal condition of the building in some detail.
We are extremely concerned about the level of physical deterioration caused by an apparent lack of ongoing maintenance, and the numerous ways in which the building has been left unsecured against pigeon and other unwanted intrusions.
We have previously visited the building, and taken a detailed photographic record of the interior, on a number of occasions: in 2003 just before it closed as a cinema, again in 2005 just after it was used as a Fringe venue, and once again in 2007, when we took representatives of Simpson & Brown architects around the building when they were working on the Conservation Plan that was produced as part of the most recent planning application.
We have therefore been able to see and record a noticeable amount of degradation in the building over that period of time. When C Venues left the building after leasing it for a month at the end of August 2005, it was in a very good condition; there were a few small areas of dampness but nothing major.
In particular, at that time the electrics were all functioning, as was the alarm system. As of October 2010 neither would appear to be operational.
1. Water ingress & damp
In 2007, there were three main areas of concern, all of which were highlighted in the Conservation plan, with water ingress: in the office space at the mezzanine level, at the top of the main stair leading to the rear of Screen 1, and at the end of the corridor leading to Screens 4/5.
The conservation plan of 2007 highlights these areas, and notes (see diagrams on pages 81, 82, 89, 90 and note especially p.88, Policy 9 - Urgent Works:
"Urgent works should be carried out within the next 12 months to prevent further deterioration of fabric. Gutter & rainwater goods should be cleared of vegetation, solid and any other material causing blockages and the roof checked for water ingress.
Most of these works have been attended to during the period that this Conservation plan has been written."
If this work was done, which we have seen no evidence of, then it was not done very thoroughly, as the exact same areas identified in the report are, in October 2010, sopping wet and increasingly damaged. The ceiling has now come down in the office area, and the area at the end of the Screen 4/5 corridor has damp, mould and areas of rust coming from the ceiling beams. Water is also running down the wall at the top of the stairs to Screen 1, and the area of damage has clearly spread since 2007.
Page 78 of the conservation plan notes that:
"The plaster in the two areas of the building that have been subject to leaks requires to be removed to allow the structure to evaporate. The drying process should be monitored until sufficient drying is recorded to allow reinstatement of finishes."
This latter has clearly not been done.
It is increasingly urgent that these areas of water ingress are dealt with properly, regardless of what is to happen to the building in the longer term.
We also noted several areas where external gutters at roof level were blocked, and in some cases, blocked for long enough that trees had started to grow out of the gutter areas. The flat roof above the corridor to Screens 4 & 5 also has greenery encroaching, plus a lot of water lying on top of it, which would help explain the damp in those areas. Again, it would seem that no maintenance has been done in these portions of the building in quite some time.
Additionally, the ceiling in each of the storage areas in the former cafe has had to be removed due to ongoing water ingress.
Photographs of these areas are attached.
2. Pigeon infestations & access issues
We noted on our tour of the building that a number of hatches and doors to different parts of the building had been left open to the outside world, and that some clearly had been that way for some time.
Quite apart from the security implications - see below - of allowing access to an empty listed building without a functioning security system, these have also allowed access to a large number of pigeons. The interior spaces of the roof void and former projection areas in particular are now lousy with pigeon faeces, the decaying remains of dead birds, a number of nests and pigeon eggs (showing that this access has been open for quite some time), and generally absolutely stinking and covered with guano. Again, there is a major health implication, quite apart from the ongoing damaging effects to the building fabric.
We noted the following accesses in particular had been left unsecured and wide open to the elements, as of our visit:
- a high level hatch to the right hand side above the former organ grille/roof access void- windows to projection room- door to projection room corridor from exterior roof near cafe- door to outside roof from above cafe- ground level door behind stage to void between cinema and adjacent tenement to rear
All of these doors/hatches were closed by ourselves, but several are not very secure, and will require to be dealt with and sealed professionally.
A selection of photos are attached.
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3. Main auditorium statue loss
We are particularly disappointed and concerned to note how few of the original statues - a key part of the decoration of the main auditorium - appear to remain in the building. There were originally ten statues of the muses - including music, arts, drama etc. Four were hidden behind the modern false proscenium of Screen 1, with six on public view in Screen 1.
By the time the building closed as a cinema in 2003, two of the hidden statues were missing, but the other eight remained in situ as of the point that DHP took ownership of the building.
One more statue then went missing sometime between the building closing as cinema in 2003, and its reopening as a temporary Fringe Festival venue in 2004; another went missing at some point while it was in use as the Pod Deco venue in August 2004.
As of 2005 - the last time the building was officially publicly accessible - the remaining six were still in situ and intact.
And yet, in 2010, despite the building being supposedly secure and inaccessible in the meantime, there are now only three statues remaining in the auditorium - two in the hidden area behind the modern screen, and only one in the main Screen 1 auditorium.
A further statue lies, with its head and feet broken off, in a storage cupboard off the stalls lounge.
The loss and damage of so many of these statues in the years since the building closed is of great concern. We noted that, while some of the fire exit doors - one of the main routes of access into the building for urban explorers, etc - are chained or are sealed up with boards nailed over them, there remain a number of ground floor exits which are not secured in any way, and which could allow illegitimate access.
A number of photos on urban exploration websites show that people have been gaining access to the building on multiple occasions over the last few years. We have reported open windows - in particular, the prominent cafe balcony glazed doors being left open on a number of occasions over that last few years (most recently, in June 2010, when one door was left open for over a week) - and understand local residents have reported similar open access at other times.
Photos of the damaged statue are attached.
4. Rot under main stage area (Odeon 4)
We also noted large areas of what appears to be dry rot under Screen 4, in the area of the original orchestra pit, where the original wooden flooring is disintegrating, and losing structural integrity. This is something that will require to be looked at in more detail by whoever takes on the building, and is also of general concern.
Photos are attached.
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Summary
In conclusion, the former Odeon building, listed primarily for the importance and rarity of its interior decoration and style of auditorium, continues to be damaged and at risk through a combination of ongoing water ingress in areas that would seem not have been repaired since 2007 at the latest, pigeon infestation and a number of doors and hatches being left open to the elements, and, through the missing statues, clear evidence that people have been removing important parts of the listed fabric of the building - major areas of architectural importance - without permission or listed building consent.
We would urge DHP, as owners of the building, to address these issues as soon as possible. If nothing else, getting power back into the building, so that the alarm and security system could be made operational again, should be seen as an urgent priority. Given the amount of time that water has been coming into the building in key areas however, the potential damage to wiring and other services is clearly a concern.
A decent full time security presence on site should also be considered as a requirement.
We trust that these comments will be taken seriously, and we would welcome a written response to this letter.
Yours sincerely,
Dr Gordon BarrScottish Casework CommitteeCinema Theatre Association
Attached: Selection of photos highlighting the issues described above, and we are happy to provide more detailed information, specific locations and/or images as required.
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1. Water Ingress
Stair to rear of Screen 1 in 2007
Stair to rear of Screen 1 in 2010 - note far larger scale of damage
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Further extent of damage to Screen 1 main stair - 2010
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Ceiling damage in mezzanine level offices
Ceiling damage in cafe area
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Ceiling damage & mould in corridor to Screens 4/5
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Greenery in main roof gutters
Greenery & water lying on flat roof of corridor to Screens 4/5
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2. Pigeon Infestations
High level hatch left open allowing pigeon ingress