Deputy X12, WCSO - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

Steve Harris, March 10, 2014Paul Murphy v. Whatcom County

3206 Wetmore, Suite 12, Everett, WA 98201BMA Court Reporters 425-252-7277

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UNITED STATES OF DISTRICT COURT

WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT SEATTLE

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PAUL MURPHY, together with his )marital community, ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) NO. 2:13-CV-00727 )WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON, a )government entity; WHATCOM COUNTY )SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT; WILLIAM J. )ELFO, together with his marital )community, ) Defendants. ) )---------------------------------------------------------------

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF STEVE HARRIS

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1:05PM - 1:40PM & 4:00PM - 5:15PM March 11TH, 2014 Whatcom County Courthouse 311 Grand Avenue Bellingham, Washington 98225

Reported by Kristen M. Uhlig Certified Court Reporter, CCR, CSR Washington CCR #1934

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2

3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS:Robert Butler & Emily Beschen

4 Law Offices of Robert Butler103 East Holly Street Suite 512

5 Bellingham, Washington 98225360.734.3448

6

7 FOR THE DEFENDANTS WHATCOM COUNTY & SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT & ELFODale Kamerrer

8 Law Lyman Daniel Kamerrer Bogdanovich2674 RW Johnson Blvd SW

9 Tumwater, Washington 98512360.754.3480

10

11 FOR WHATCOM COUNTY:Elizabeth Gallery

12 Whatcom County Prosecutor's Office311 Grand Avenue

13 Bellingham, Washington 98225

14ALSO PRESENT:

15 William ElfoTara Adrian-Stavik

16

17 I N D E X

18 EXAMINATION: PAGE

19 BY MR. BUTLER................................................3

20 BY MR. KAMERRER.............................................32

21 BY MR. BUTLER...............................................68

22 BY MR. KAMERRER.............................................73

23

24 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE

25 40....Memorandum to Sheriff Elfo from Steve Harris..........45

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1 STEVE HARRIS,

2 having been first duly sworn, was called as a witness herein and

3 was examined and testified as follows:

4

5 DIRECT EXAMINATION

6

7 BY MR. BUTLER:

8 Q Good afternoon, would you please state your name and spell it

9 for the record?

10 A Steven Harris. S-T-E-V-E-N H-A-R-R-I-S.

11 Q Are you employed?

12 A I am.

13 Q Where are you employed?

14 A Whatcom County Sheriff's Office.

15 Q How long have you been so employed?

16 A Full-time since 1998. I was a reserve deputy for a couple

17 years before that.

18 Q Do you hold a rank?

19 A I don't. I'm a deputy.

20 Q In preparation for today's deposition, did you review any

21 documents?

22 A I did not.

23 Q Did you meet with any attorneys involved in the case?

24 A No.

25 Q Did you have any discussions in the workplace about what your

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1 testimony may or may not pertain to today?

2 A Specifics, no. We obviously talked about depositions

3 occurring.

4 Q Okay. Who did you have conversations with about depositions

5 occurring?

6 A Guys from work. So I talked to...

7 Q Any management?

8 A No.

9 Q Okay. As you sit here today, do you have any fear of providing

10 truthful testimony about the department and suffering

11 retaliation for your comments?

12 A Yeah.

13 Q What's that based on?

14 A Experience.

15 Q And what experience are you referring to that would lead you to

16 that opinion or fear?

17 A The experiences as a deputy. It's certainly a bit unnerving to

18 have the sheriff present during depositions. I mean, the whole

19 basis of the case is a retaliation case based on intimidation

20 and other things, so it doesn't make it any easier to have him

21 present during the deposition.

22 Q Is there any reservation on your part in telling the truth --

23 A No.

24 Q -- based on that fear?

25 A No.

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1 Q Okay. Do you know Paul Murphy?

2 A I do.

3 Q How do you know Paul Murphy?

4 A Through work. He was a full-time deputy with the sheriff's

5 office.

6 Q Have you had an opportunity to develop an opinion as to his

7 credibility for truthfulness?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And what's your opinion of Paul Murphy?

10 A I've met few people that I would value their credibility higher

11 than Mr. Murphy.

12 Q Do you know Jeff Parks?

13 A I do.

14 Q Have you worked with him such that you can form an opinion as

15 to his credibility for truthfulness?

16 A I have.

17 Q What's your opinion of Jeff Parks' credibility for

18 truthfulness?

19 A That it's been called into question. Specifically -- if you

20 want me to get into it?

21 Q Yes, please.

22 A There was question about testimony at a hearing. It would have

23 been in the early to mid 90s related to a labor dispute that we

24 were having.

25 Q Can you be more specific? What about that led you to be

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1 concerned about his credibility? Was it his testimony?

2 A It was his testimony; correct. Unfortunately, I can't. I

3 would have to go back and look at the case to give you

4 specifics.

5 Q Okay. Were you a part of that?

6 A I did not testify, no. I was a member of the organization, but

7 I did not testify in that hearing.

8 Q Any other incidents come to mind with regard to Jeff Parks?

9 A No.

10 Q Steve Cooley. Have you worked with him such that you have

11 formed an opinion to his credibility and truthfulness?

12 A I think so, yeah.

13 Q What's your opinion?

14 A I have never experienced him being untruthful that I'm aware

15 of. I question his morality and some of the behaviors that he

16 does as a deputy in the past, but not of him being truthful

17 about any conduct that he's done.

18 Q Okay. Kevin Mede?

19 A Yes.


21 to his truthfulness and credibility?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And what is your opinion?

24 A That he's untruthful. That you don't know whether he's being

25 truthful or not.

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1 Q Okay. Any specific incidences that come to mind?

2 A Yes.

3 Q What are those?

4 A When he was the guild president, he made some statements

5 related to information that -- an intent of what he was going

6 to do with information that he was dishonest about. He was

7 untruthful.

8 Q Was that case related or guild related?

9 A It was union related, guild related.

10 Q Okay. Jeremy Freeman.

11 A Yes.


13 to his credibility and truthfulness?

14 A Yes.


16 A In my dealings with him personally and as by reputation, he has

17 a reputation of being truthful. I have no specific incidents

18 where he's ever been untruthful to me or to anybody that I'm

19 aware of.

20 Q Okay. Beth Larson, do you know her well enough to have formed

21 an opinion?

22 A Sure.

23 Q What's your opinion of Beth Larson?

24 A I think she's generally a credible person. I don't think that

25 she would intentionally be deceitful or dishonest at a hearing

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1 or anything like that. Again, I -- if we're talking about her

2 credibility specifically, I have no reason to doubt her

3 credibility.

4 Q Okay. Bill Elfo, do you know him well enough to form an

5 opinion as to his credibility and truthfulness?

6 A I do.


8 A I think for the most part, he comes across as being credible,

9 but I do have a specific issue with a conversation that we had.

10 Q Can you describe that?

11 A Yeah. It was related to a union matter and letters that were

12 going to go out to non-employee witnesses, and concerns about

13 the letter.

14 Q Non-employee witnesses?

15 A Right. To internal investigations.

16 Q What was that case about?

17 A To be honest, I don't remember the specific investigation.

18 There's been a few of them, but what it was related to was when

19 an investigation was concluded, the guild would like to

20 interview witnesses in internal investigations. So it was a

21 letter that was sent out to non-employee witnesses. In other

22 words, they are witnesses to an internal investigation

23 involving a deputy, but they weren't employees of the sheriff's

24 office or Whatcom County.

25 Q Okay.

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1 A And what was said to the non-employee witnesses, you know,

2 information about perhaps being contacted by the guild and, you

3 know, you don't have to cooperate with investigations, that

4 sort of tenure or flavor.

5 Q Okay.

6 A So that led to a conversation between myself and Sheriff Elfo

7 about the reasoning behind the letter and his comments to me

8 about not wanting to subject the citizens to union thuggery or

9 comments related to that. I don't remember specifically the

10 words that were used, but then a later denial that such a

11 conversation occurred.

12 Q Okay. Are you aware of the county sheriff's office having a

13 Facebook page?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Have you ever been an administrator or had control of the page?

16 A No.

17 Q Have you ever posted anything on the page?

18 A I have. Twice.

19 Q Are you aware of any posts that you put on the page being taken

20 down?

21 A Yes. Both of them.

22 Q And do you know why they were taken down?

23 A I know why I was told they were taken down.

24 Q Okay. Let's start with: Do you know who took them down?

25 A I don't know specifically. I presume that it was the

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1 administrator of the page, either Jeff Parks or Steve

2 Gatterman, who I think is responsible for the daily.

3 Q Okay.

4 A But I'm not totally clear about who actually would have removed

5 them.

6 Q Okay. Do you know why they were taken down? I think that you

7 were about to say that.

8 A Right. The first post, I was actually, I got a phone call from

9 the sheriff and undersheriff. It was a conference call that

10 said that my posting gave information that they felt could be a

11 safety risk to people related to a specific case.

12 Q When was that, roughly, what year?

13 A 2011.

14 Q Okay. And from your perspective, the information that you had

15 posted, had that already been made public?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Did you express that to Sheriff Elfo and Jeff Parks?

18 A I did. It was the -- if I can comment and further elaborate,

19 so it's not so in the dark. It was a -- the Facebook page had

20 put up a posting related to an arrest that was made in a drug

21 case where deputies had made a stop and a significant amount of

22 narcotics was found.

23 I don't remember whether it was -- I think that it was

24 cocaine. It was a congratulations to the deputies whose

25 proactive activity basically made the stop.

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1 I commented on there -- my comment was basically that it

2 wasn't necessarily a proactive enforcement. That a lot of

3 times, these stops are made at the behest of federal agencies

4 or task forces to have a uniform patrol officer make the actual

5 traffic stop. But the stop was made at the behest of somebody

6 else. It was pretty generic.

7 Q The second post that came down, do you recall what that post

8 was about?

9 A I do. The sheriff's office Facebook page put a posting, asking

10 the public's assistance in locating an elderly gentleman that

11 went missing in the city limits of Bellingham.

12 My problem with the posting is that they had used a

13 booking photo from the jail identifying the person. Hey, have

14 you seen this guy? I thought that it was inappropriate to use

15 a booking photo when we were seeking the public's help in

16 finding a missing person.

17 The comment was very brief, just basically said, really,

18 all we have is a booking photo for a missing person?

19 Q And how did you know that that got taken down or did you just

20 notice that it was down?

21 A Um, I was called into my sergeant's office in detectives. I

22 was a detective at the time. He had a counseling session with

23 me, gave me a printout of the actual posting and told me that

24 the post had been removed and I was being counseled against

25 posting further such comments on the sheriff's page.

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1 Q Who was that at that time?

2 A Sean Crisp was the sergeant.

3 Q Okay. Roughly when was that?

4 A 2012, I believe.

5 Q Are you aware in 2012 of any policy that restricted your

6 Facebook posting as a county sheriff deputy?

7 A No.

8 Q You were, past and present, involved with the guild in an

9 elected capacity; correct?

10 A That's correct.

11 Q How many years total have you been president?

12 A Five about.

13 Q Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 1 from a previous

14 deposition, it's an e-mail from Kevin Mede to you and a host of

15 others in December of 2010. Do you recall this e-mail?

16 A I do. I think that it's actually still in my county e-mail.

17 Q The relationship -- in the fourth paragraph, he says that, "The

18 relationship between the Sheriff and the guild has soured over

19 the last few years."

20 Do you know what he's talking about there?

21 A I do. I can clarify.

22 Q Sure.

23 A I think that it's mainly perception. And that since I have

24 become the guild president, I have strongly advocated and

25 defended the rights of the employees, no matter who the

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1 employee was, without reference to whether or not they were

2 liked or perceived as being a good deputy.

3 My addage is that I'm a law enforcement officer. This

4 is the profession that I'm in. A law enforcement agency as the

5 sheriff's office, in particular, should be really good about

6 following rules. That's what we do for a living.

7 And when I find that in my perception, of course,

8 everything gets litigated in the end, that when they're not

9 followed, it's my responsibility as the president of the

10 organization to file a grievance to correct or remedy the

11 problem.

12 There's members of the agency, obviously, who felt that

13 they didn't appreciate that, that it created an adversarial

14 relationship. That the guild fought everything that came down

15 the line, which clearly wasn't true.

16 Q Okay. In your capacity as working with the guild, did you have

17 opportunity to participate in and learn about investigations

18 into Paul Murphy?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And we have transcripts that indicate that you were present for

21 Inspector Cooley's interview of Paul Murphy in May of 2012. Do

22 you recall that?

23 A Not specifically. I specifically remember being in an

24 interview with Cooley, but as far as date and the circumstances

25 -- I don't recall.

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1 Q Okay. It appears from the transcript that there was

2 back-to-back days that you were present and it got halted

3 fairly early on because there were new charges being brought

4 and you and Paul wanted time to think about it. And so you

5 adjourned for essentially 24 hours. Whatever the days were,

6 does that sound familiar?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Okay. In your capacity -- or let me ask you a different way.

9 Were you there because you were a friend of Paul's or were you

10 there because of your guild role?

11 A It was for my guild role. I was asked to be his representative

12 from the guild.

13 Q Okay. So at that time, you were aware of what the allegations

14 were? That they were seeking to terminate his employment;

15 correct?

16 A That's correct. Can I clarify the comment you brought up about

17 friendship?

18 Q Sure.

19 A I think that it's important here that -- I wouldn't

20 characterize me and Paul's relationship as friends.

21 Q Okay.

22 A We're co-workers and acquaintances and I respect him, but we

23 don't have coffee, we don't hang out on the side. That

24 representation of him was professional. It wasn't personal

25 based.

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1 Q Okay. And so -- thank you for clarifying that. Because going

2 back to the beginning, I asked what you think of his

3 credibility, and you said that he's -- paraphrasing -- he's

4 great.

5 A Right.

6 Q Was that a professional view of your knowledge of his work or

7 was because we're friends and I'm his guild guy, so I have his

8 back?

9 A It's definitely a professional view. I mean, it's clear that

10 me and Paul in the past have had issues and Sheriff Elfo

11 brought it up in one of his letters that he wrote about Paul,

12 concerns that I may have had about him and his activities and

13 things like that. But one of the things that I've never had a

14 problem with Paul is about his credibility or his being honest

15 about how he feels about things.

16 Q Okay. You were aware in 2011 that Paul was not supporting Bill

17 Elfo in the election; correct?

18 A That's correct.

19 Q Were you aware at any time before you had these meetings with

20 Cooley and Paul, these interviews, which show to be May,

21 whether or not Elfo was unhappy with Paul for his election

22 position?

23 A It was presumed that he was unhappy. I didn't have any

24 specific information about it. I guess that I would have to --

25 can you be more specific?

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1 Q Sure. Did you have any conversations with Bill Elfo where he

2 conveyed his displeasure with Paul?

3 A No.

4 Q Did you hear any conversations from the chain, if you will, of

5 Bill Elfo being unhappy with Paul?

6 A No. Not specifically, no.

7 Q Okay. As you sat through these interviews with Paul that Steve

8 Cooley conducted, is it your belief that Paul was fired for

9 those stated reasons or some other reason?

10 MR. KAMERRER: Objection. Vague, ambiguous, calls for

11 speculation. Nevertheless, you can answer.

12 THE WITNESS: First, I want to clarify about the

13 timing and investigation. I say that because I've been with

14 Paul on other investigations. So this is an investigation that

15 occurred after the election?

16 Q (By Mr. Butler) Correct.

17 A Am I correct?

18 Q This was 2012. The election was November of 2011.

19 A Right. This was the investigation that ultimately led to his

20 termination.

21 Q Correct.

22 A Yes. My belief then is that the unsaid motivation behind the

23 termination is because of his activities during the election

24 campaign.

25 Q Were you aware through a series of investigations leading up to

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1 the May one --

2 A Right.

3 Q -- that management was monitoring Paul's off work Facebook page

4 and other website activity?

5 A I had no specific independent knowledge that that was

6 occurring, but yeah. You would -- that's what it appeared to

7 be to me.

8 Q Okay. And were you aware of an investigation conducted by

9 Cooley, 2012-002, into a posting that Paul made?

10 A Yeah. After the fact, we became aware of it. If I recall, it

11 was an investigation that was never originally initiated, I

12 don't believe. In other words, I don't know that Paul ever

13 received notification that an internal investigation was being

14 conducted, but I don't have -- because if I recall right,

15 ultimately it went away with the understanding that no

16 discipline could occur because there was no policy. There was

17 no -- nothing that said that you couldn't have your own

18 Facebook page or you couldn't make postings. I'm thinking that

19 it's been a while. I remember seeing it though.

20 Q Okay. Were you aware that Paul was concerned about corruption

21 and compromised investigations in the department?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Did you have an opinion as to whether or not that was an

24 accurate assessment?

25 A I didn't have enough information to form a definitive opinion,

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1 no. Are you referring to a specific investigation that Paul

2 was working on? I mean, that's pretty --

3 Q No. His general sense that management was corrupt in the

4 sheriff's office.

5 MR. KAMERRER: I object. It's vague and ambiguous,

6 calls for speculation.

7 THE WITNESS: So to --

8 Q (By Mr. Butler) Were you aware of that? Were you aware that

9 Paul held --

10 A Yes.

11 Q -- that view?

12 A Yes. Absolutely.

13 Q Okay. How were you aware of that?

14 A Through conversations that we had. He worked in detectives

15 with me for -- it was two years. I know that during that time,

16 he some -- he had opinions about it. He wasn't shy about

17 talking about it.

18 Q Okay. In his capacity as a detective, did he do good work?

19 A Absolutely.

20 Q Did you ever have any problems with his work product, his

21 investigative ability?

22 A No. Not his ability. If I were to give a critique of Paul as

23 a peer -- if I were to give him a peer evaluation -- it would

24 be that he gets hyper-focused on particular issues and doesn't

25 want to stop investigating. You know, rather than trying to

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1 get a detective to actually do his job and investigate things,

2 Paul, you have to keep a reign on him as far as, hey, you need

3 to back off.

4 We've got investigative resources that need to go to

5 lots of different crimes that we're investigating. You can't

6 just focus on one investigation until you reach a resolution

7 that you're happy with. Sometimes we just have to say, enough

8 is enough, and move on.

9 Q Okay. Do you share any of Paul's view with regards to

10 management of the sheriff's department and the corruption

11 issue?

12 A Yes. I think that's fair.

13 Q Can you describe that? Can you explain that to me?

14 MR. KAMERRER: I'm going to insert an objection that

15 it's vague, ambiguous and calls for speculation. Lack of

16 foundation.

17 THE WITNESS: Well, I think that maybe I can answer

18 his objection by clarifying what I mean by corruption.

19 Q (By Mr. Butler) I was asking your opinion of the corruption.

20 A Right. Corruption gets thrown about in lots of different ways.

21 I think that in my mind, when I use the term what my opinion

22 is, I think that Sheriff Elfo has very strong opinions about

23 how he wants to run and manage his department. And a lot of

24 times that is the overriding factor of concern about what he

25 wants done.

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1 For example, I don't like this employee for whatever

2 reason. I want him terminated, I don't want him in my

3 employment. So that necessitates me actually finding a way

4 that is legal to get rid of him.

5 I know that we've had conversations with some of his

6 other staff about the principle of just cause and that just

7 cause gets in the way of a lot of different management rights

8 as to getting rid of employees. And that it would be his

9 preference that we don't even have the provision of just cause,

10 in which case it becomes just 'cause.

11 So I think that Sheriff Elfo has made it clear that he

12 wants the unfettered ability to manage his employees as he sees

13 fit. And when guilds, unions and other rules stand in the way,

14 that becomes an aggravation and frustration.

15 Now, that's common -- not uncommon for other agencies

16 all over the United States and the world. It's just how you

17 react to that and deal with that.

18 Q The definition that you just gave, is it your opinion that

19 that's what happened to Paul Murphy?

20 A Correct.

21 MR. KAMERRER: Objection. Lack of foundation, calls

22 for speculation.

23 Q (By Mr. Butler) And what do you base your opinion on that you

24 say correct to that question?

25 A Sure. Well, I know for a fact that investigations are handled

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1 differently, depending on who you are and how well liked you

2 are at the sheriff's office. I think in the case of Deputy

3 Murphy that, he was investigated prior to the election

4 campaign, so I can't say that all of this occurred after the

5 election.

6 But it was pretty clear to me that after the election,

7 when he called Deputy Murphy into his office with witnesses

8 there and said, hey, are you going to make good on your rumors

9 or comments that you -- it was going to be difficult for you to

10 work here, and hands him your certification of election and

11 says, hey, I won -- I'm waiting for you to quit. And when the

12 employee doesn't, it seems pretty clear to me that then you

13 find any way that you can to get rid of him. And, in fact, he

14 documented part of the conversation.

15 Q From your work in the guild and reviewing guild activity,

16 assisting employees with investigations --

17 A Sure.

18 Q -- are you aware of anybody else in the beginning of -- end of

19 2011, beginning of the first half of 2012 who was investigated

20 more than Paul Murphy?

21 A Not that I'm aware of.

22 Q Is there anything else that you think is important for us to

23 know about your knowledge of what this litigation is about that

24 you haven't talked about yet?

25 MR. KAMERRER: Objection. Calls for speculation and

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1 it's argumentative.

2 THE WITNESS: I can answer the question though?

3 Q (By Mr. Butler) Yeah.

4 A I think that my personal feeling of how these investigations

5 are conducted is that the sheriff is principal in his

6 determination to get rid of who he considers not good deputies

7 or somebody who isn't a fit within his organization. Be damned

8 any argument or hearing later that's going to reinstate the

9 employee or get him sued.

10 He's made comments to me in the past about a release of

11 information that related to a former deputy who was terminated,

12 Andy Koch. I came to him and said, look, you can't release

13 some of this information to the press. It's a violation of his

14 privacy rights. His comment to me was, well, let him sue me.

15 Which sticks in my mind.

16 Q Did the information about Andy get released?

17 A It did. It got released and I immediately filed a paper with

18 the county, like, look, this is a violation of our agreement

19 that we already had and it's a violation of his rights. I

20 mean, you're releasing information that can affect him.

21 So the undersheriff got involved and got ahold of the

22 paper and they actually didn't print the information and

23 eventually give them a redacted document.

24 Q Do you think that Paul's religious and political views had an

25 impact or effect on how he was treated in the department?

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1 A Yes.

2 MR. KAMERRER: Objection, I want to have this precede

3 the answer that it calls for speculation and lack of

4 foundation. Go ahead.

5 Q (By Mr. Butler) You answered yes to that?

6 A (Witness Indicating).

7 Q Can you explain why you have that opinion, that his political

8 and religious views affected how he was treated by management

9 and others in the department?

10 A Right. Yeah. Paul wasn't shy about expressing his political

11 views, not so much his religious views. I never heard him

12 proselytize or talk about religion at all, quite frankly. But

13 there was a lot of politics talk and it turned a lot of people

14 off.

15 I mean, he was very conservative in his views, not to

16 the point of -- I don't know how I would characterize it. But

17 because of that, he was chastised frequently, you know,

18 comments made by other deputies that filtered up and down the

19 chain of command.

20 So I think that, yeah. It was clear that even before

21 the election campaign, it was a publishing that he made in

22 another online journal, Whatcom Uncovered, that started off as

23 being very flattery to -- flattering to Sheriff Elfo and the

24 sheriff's office.

25 So I think that Paul is equal opportunity. I don't

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1 think that he has any specific grudges against anybody. I

2 think that he just feels -- and I feel that he was

3 discriminated against and terminated because of his political

4 views. It seems pretty clear to me. Of course, it's up to the

5 courts to decide that.

6 Q Did you hear any comments from people like Parks or Cooley,

7 Chadwick or Edge, that furthered your opinion that politics and

8 religion played into the decision to get rid of him?

9 A I don't recall having any conversations with any of the command

10 staff that would reflect that, no, not specifically.

11 MR. BUTLER: We need to break. Are you available

12 later this afternoon?

13 THE WITNESS: Sure.

14 MR. BUTLER: Okay. Because we've got Deputy Scott

15 that is not here, but is by Skype. So if we could adjourn this

16 one until later.

17 THE WITNESS: Okay.

18 (Recess Taken, Deposition Continued)

19 (Deposition Resumed)

20 MR. BUTLER: Okay. It's 4:00. We're back on the

21 record. Thank you for being willing to return. Just an

22 essentially -- kind of two essential follow-up questions.


24 Q (By Mr. Butler) First of all, given the fact that we have had

25 a break, have you had opportunity to reflect on your testimony

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1 and is there anything that you would like to add or modify to

2 any of the answers that you gave before?

3 A I can further elaborate a few things.

4 Q Okay.

5 A One of them is related to Kevin Mede. You asked if I thought

6 that he was an honest person and I talked about a specific

7 event.

8 Q Right.

9 A About the guild.

10 Q What would you like to further elaborate on with regards to

11 Kevin Mede?

12 A Well, after further reflection during the break, I do remember

13 that there were issues related to his on-the-job duty, and

14 whether he was being totally forthcoming about some

15 investigations that he was specifically involved in.

16 Q Okay.

17 A Specifically related to traffic stops and whether they would be

18 considered pretextual under the Constitution of the State and

19 whether he initially indicated that the, you know, how the

20 stops transpired in the first place.

21 Q Okay. There was an investigation into that; correct?

22 A There was.

23 Q Did you speak with both Parks --

24 A Well, let me clarify. There was not an official investigation,

25 which goes to the problems with this agency in my opinion.

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1 Q Okay. Do you think that Mede got treated differently than Paul

2 Murphy?

3 A Absolutely, he did.

4 Q Okay. Can you explain that?

5 A Well, this is the only agency that I have ever heard of in my

6 time in law enforcement that you have an employee who comes

7 forward with information about another employee being dishonest

8 on-the-job and about testimony. And it interviews, I think, 10

9 or 11 different employees related to it and doesn't record any

10 of them, never opens an official internal investigation, calls

11 it all an administrative inquiry, and summarizes it with a one

12 page narrative that there's not one scintilla of evidence to

13 suggest that this employee was ever dishonest.

14 To me, it's a sham and a sweep under the carpet of what

15 actually transpired. I say that because during an internal

16 investigation -- I mean, if this was, in fact, true that there

17 was nothing to hide, I have to wonder why they wouldn't record

18 every interview of each employee. That's what's done with

19 internal investigations. That's for protections of both the

20 employee and the witnesses, to accurately record what was said

21 during the interviews and to reflect that.

22 So, I mean, we open internal investigations on pretty

23 minor, in my mind, incidences or allegations of misconduct.

24 And we do it before we really spend a lot of time interviewing

25 anybody.

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1 In this case, again, they interviewed 10 or 11 different

2 officers over a few days period of time -- I don't know exactly

3 how long it took -- and no internal investigation was ever

4 opened.

5 Q Okay. Now, I've learned through the course of these

6 depositions that internal investigations are given a unique

7 number that is like an AI and then 2012. I'm familiar with one

8 with regard to Paul Murphy with 002.

9 A Sure.

10 Q Is that what you're referring to as far as, was the

11 investigation into Mede assigned a number?

12 A No. It's more than whether it's assigned a number. It's

13 whether or not an investigation actually occurred.

14 Q Okay.

15 A So in order for an internal investigation to occur, there's

16 certain collective bargaining requirements. The employee needs

17 to be notified by statement.

18 Q Okay.

19 A There has to be an advisement given to the employee that talks

20 about what their rights are. And every employee who is

21 interviewed is given the same advisement. You are a witness to

22 an internal investigation. You're required to give truthful

23 information. If you don't, you could be disciplined.

24 Also, I think that what is also important is it has a no

25 contact provision. In other words, you're not supposed to

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1 discuss this with other members of the agency, your testimony,

2 until the investigation is concluded. None of that happened.

3 Q Okay. Rossmiller sat in on the interviews with you and Murphy

4 when Murphy was interviewed by Cooley.

5 A Okay.

6 Q Do you --

7 A I seem to recall that, yes.

8 Q Okay. Is that normal in an investigation to have a witness who

9 has also been interviewed, sit in, and observe to keep the

10 investigator on track?

11 A No. It's not and if I recall, I think that I objected to it.

12 Q You did.

13 A That here you have a witness in the investigation who is being

14 given the opportunity to review all of the testimony. I think

15 that it was pretty unusual, which was why I objected to it.

16 Q Are you aware of any other circumstance other than the Paul

17 Murphy investigation where that occurred?

18 A No. Not in an internal investigations. Cooley has had an

19 assistant present. I can't think of her name, but she wasn't a

20 witness.

21 Q Not a witness --

22 A Right.

23 Q -- to the investigation?

24 A Correct.

25 Q Other than the Mede --

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1 A Sure.

2 Q -- further elaboration, did anything else come to mind that you

3 felt like you needed to change or further elaborate on?

4 A Not that I need to change, no. It's -- you live in a world

5 where your words mean something. So you have to be really

6 careful about what you say, especially, in this context of

7 being found untruthful. So not that I can think of. If I'm --

8 please tell me if you think that that --

9 Q No. I'm trying to give you the opportunity because it's unique

10 to be able to come back to a deposition like this.

11 A I think that what's important in the overall context of this

12 case, although not specifically, is how it relates to how the

13 sheriff relates to the employees in general and how one at the

14 very least could perceive retaliation.

15 And after the election campaign, whether or not it is

16 continued surveillance of individual Facebook activity or the

17 way that, you know, during the election campaign, Sheriff Elfo

18 had sent out numerous friend requests to just about every

19 employee in the sheriff's office and then use that vehicle to

20 put out campaign flyers or certain things.

21 It's just this overall scheme where you can't really --

22 it is hard to put together and say, well, you know, this

23 specific thing with Paul is really an isolated incident. It's

24 not. I mean, you have to take it into context with everything

25 else that is happening.

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1 Q Okay. We learned --

2 MR. KAMERRER: Just a second. The answer to the last

3 testimony was non-responsive and irrelevant. I move to strike.

4 Go ahead.

5 Q (By Mr. Butler) It doesn't really matter.

6 MR. KAMERRER: It does matter. It does matter. Don't

7 say it doesn't matter.

8 MR. BUTLER: It doesn't matter to the witness,

9 Counsel.

10 MR. KAMERRER: Yeah.

11 MR. BUTLER: You're just postulating on the record.

12 MR. KAMERRER: Just don't editorialize. It's improper

13 for you to editorialize about my objections.

14 MR. BUTLER: Given your behavior today, I don't think

15 that you're the person to talk about it.

16 MR. KAMERRER: I am the person to talk about it.

17 You're going to have to listen to me. Yeah.

18 Q (By Mr. Butler) In the last deposition, we heard that it was

19 believed that Ben Wood was retaliated against for not

20 supporting Elfo. Are you aware of that?

21 A Yes.

22 Q What are you aware of in that?

23 A Well, I know that Ben Wood specifically didn't support Bill

24 Elfo in the election campaign. He supported Bob Taylor, at

25 least through the primary. And, in fact, had Facebook photos

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1 that had pictures of himself holding a Bob Taylor campaign

2 sign, you know, so it was pretty clear.

3 And given the propensity to view other people's

4 Facebook pages and have persons send him photos and images of

5 screen shots of Facebook pages, it wouldn't be unusual for the

6 sheriff to be aware of that.

7 Specifically about the retaliation parts is after the

8 election, his position in the -- it would have been crime

9 prevention at the time -- was eliminated and they questioned

10 whether they actually eliminated it or reallocated it.

11 So he was taken out of the position. The premium that

12 was attached to that position, the premium meaning the deputy

13 that would get extra money, was reallocated to Kevin Bowhay in

14 a detective's position in the prosecutor's office.

15 Q And did you view that as favoritism?

16 A Yes.

17 Q From your experience, did Paul's political or religious views

18 impact his performance on the job?

19 A No.

20 Q Did you ever observe him treat anybody unfairly or differently

21 based on, you know, a citizen's perceived political or

22 religious view?

23 A Absolutely not. I mean, I think that it's -- I didn't agree

24 with all of Paul's political views and neither did a lot of

25 people. A lot of them were pretty extreme and could be

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1 considered paranoid and certain things.

2 But it actually made him a really good investigator. It

3 always, you know, wanting to dig to the truth and not believe

4 at first glance what appears to be a case, always digging

5 further wanting to find the truth.

6 So although he had, you know, obvious views against

7 different areas, concerns about acts of terrorism and how Islam

8 may play into that whole role, I've never perceived him ever to

9 be racist in any way, shape or form or discriminatory to any

10 person that he ever dealt with.

11 MR. BUTLER: Okay. I don't think that I have any

12 other questions. I suspect Mr. Kamerrer will.

13

14 EXAMINATION OF STEVE HARRIS BY MR. KAMERRER

15

16 BY MR. KAMERRER:

17 Q Deputy Harris, when did you join the sheriff's office?

18 A I was hired full-time in 1998 January.

19 Q Okay. Did you have law enforcement experience before then?

20 A With the sheriff's office. I was a paid reserve for two or

21 three years. '95 or '96 is when I applied.

22 Q Did you have employment in any other law enforcement agency

23 before then?

24 A No.

25 Q Have you met with Mr. Butler or Ms. Beschen or anyone

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1 associated with them prior to this deposition?

2 A About this case?

3 Q Yes.

4 A No. I have had conversations with Paul about how things are

5 going with him and that, you know, depositions are being had,

6 but no specifics about the case.

7 Q Okay. How about with Mr. Butler, Ms. Beschen or an

8 investigator or anyone else associated with them?

9 A Yeah. I did get a call from an investigator from Mr. Butler's

10 firm last week.

11 Q And who was that?

12 A I don't recall her name. She works in Skagit County.

13 Q Do you know her to be an independent private investigator?

14 A Yeah. She said that she was an independent private

15 investigator.

16 Q You don't remember her name?

17 A I honestly don't.

18 Q What did she ask you?

19 A Very similar questions. She asked me if I was retaliated

20 against at the sheriff's office. Asked -- yeah. She -- really

21 basic questions, such as we have heard today.

22 Q Have you been demoted or denied a promotion by Sheriff Elfo?

23 A Demoted? It depends on your point of view. I was removed from

24 detectives, which is a monetary loss of pay, but it's not

25 considered a demotion.

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1 Q When was that?

2 A It would have been the end of 2012.

3 Q Did that occur at the end of your rotation in that division?

4 A It was.

5 Q Did you apply for an extension?

6 A I did.

7 Q Who got the position that you vacated?

8 A I don't remember.

9 Q Are you entitled to be reappointed to that position?

10 A Yeah.

11 Q Were you at that time entitled to be promoted -- continued in

12 that position?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Under what provision? What policy?

15 A The collective bargaining agreement.

16 Q What does the collective bargaining agreement say about that?

17 A It says that the sheriff is able to create a series of

18 reappointments and retain, I believe, that it's up to half of

19 the detectives.

20 Q That's sounds like a right that the sheriff has. Is there

21 something that says that you, as a detective, have a right to

22 extension in the detective position at the end of the rotation?

23 A Oh, I see. I see what you're asking. No. There's no inherent

24 right for me to remain in detectives. He certainly was well

25 within his rights to not renew me as much as he would be to

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1 renew me.

2 Q Did you grieve that?

3 A I did not. There was no basis for grievance. You know, my

4 mere suspicions about why it occurred is my mere suspicions.

5 Q But you didn't grieve it; is that right?

6 A There was no basis for grievance.

7 Q Did you meet with guild representatives to ask whether you

8 could grieve that?

9 A I didn't need to. A grievance is specifically a grievance

10 against the collective bargaining agreement. While I may -- I

11 could have potentially filed an unfair labor practice or a

12 civil suit for discriminatory act, it wasn't a violation of the

13 CBA. The clause in the CBA clearly allowed him to not renew

14 me.

15 Q So you knew that you didn't have a basis for a grievance over

16 that nonrenewal; is that right?

17 A Not in the collective bargaining agreement, that's correct.

18 Q Okay. Did you talk to Mr. Butler or Ms. Beschen or anyone from

19 their office between the time that you were here this morning

20 and the time that we resumed your deposition this afternoon?

21 A No.

22 Q Have you reviewed --

23 A Well, I -- somebody called me to tell me to come back. I think

24 it may have been --

25 MS. ADRIAN-STAVIK: Yeah. It was me.

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1 THE WITNESS: Okay. I just want to be clear. I'm not

2 sure who called.

3 Q (By Mr. Kamerrer) Did you review any documents before this

4 deposition?

5 A Today? No. I never --

6 Q No. Yesterday. Last week?

7 A Can you be more specific?

8 Q Well, did you review any documents related to the Murphy

9 internal investigation prior to this deposition?

10 A I didn't review -- as a matter of fact, I can't even find it.

11 To be honest, I was looking for it, and I was unable to even

12 locate it. So, no, I didn't review any of it.

13 Q Did you review any documents given to you by Paul Murphy?

14 A No. I don't think that he's given me anything.

15 Q What did Paul Murphy tell you about how the lawsuit was going?

16 A Basically that it was on track.

17 Q Did he say anything about what the evidence was or what actions

18 were planned in the case?

19 A Not that you couldn't see yourself on Facebook.

20 Q Do you review his Facebook postings on a regular basis?

21 A Yeah. He's a friend of mine on Facebook. Facebook friends,

22 however you want to interpret that.

23 Q Okay. Do you like his postings in the formal way that Facebook

24 provides where you click on some button?

25 A I have in the past, yes.

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1 Q Have you done that recently?

2 A Gee, that's a tough question. I may have. I don't recall

3 specifically.

4 Q Do you have a Facebook page?

5 A I do.

6 Q Is it a -- is it publicly accessible?

7 A No.

8 Q Were you personally involved in any part of the background in

9 what you have referred to as the pretext stop issue involving

10 Sergeant Mede?

11 A As part of the background investigation?

12 Q Well --

13 A I was interviewed.

14 Q -- as part of the event itself or its later investigation?

15 A No. I wasn't a party to the actual -- either stop or I wasn't

16 assigned to investigate. I was interviewed about it, but that

17 was it.

18 Q Why were you interviewed?

19 A Actually, I'm -- I was interviewed about if I had any

20 information about Kevin Mede and in his dishonesty. I was --

21 part of the issue was that specific incident, the pretext stop,

22 was never even brought up in the administrative inquiry as far

23 as I can read in the findings.

24 Although, some of the employees, advised that they

25 reported concerns about that particular incident, it was never

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1 followed up on apparently.

2 Q So let me understand, you were interviewed more generally about

3 Mede's honesty rather than about the pretext stop issue?

4 A That's correct. I was not asked any questions whatsoever about

5 the pretext stop. The whole basis of the administrative

6 inquiry was a fellow sergeant had brought up concerns about his

7 honesty. And, from what I can gather, suggested that -- gave

8 names of a bunch of other deputies that could be talked to

9 about it. I was one of those persons that he mentioned, so I

10 was brought in and asked about it.

11 Q Who -- who interviewed you?

12 A It was Chief Chadwick and Lieutenant Rossmiller.

13 Q What did you tell them at that time about what you knew about

14 Mede's honesty?

15 A I told him that he was a liar, and that was the very first

16 thing out of my mouth.

17 Q What was your basis for saying that?

18 A My personal interactions with him.

19 Q Did you have a case or an incident in mind that you referred

20 to?

21 A I did. I talked about the guild activity. I did say that I

22 believe that I wasn't aware of any specific on duty lying that

23 occurred.

24 Q When was this interview?

25 A I don't remember what day it was.

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1 Q Do you remember the month and the year?

2 A Yeah. It was -- it would have been the first part of 2013

3 because I was on graveyard shift, I believe -- maybe I was on

4 swing. I honestly don't remember. Sorry. I apologize. It's

5 in the file somewhere. It should be.

6 Q Okay. So your comments in that interview about thinking that

7 Mede was not truthful, related to guild activity only?

8 A His dishonesty, yeah. What I talked about in the interview was

9 related to guild activity. I brought up other issues that I

10 deemed unethical and concerning, but they were never addressed

11 apparently either.

12 Q Were the other things that you thought were unethical or

13 concerning, duty related?

14 A Yeah. He was wearing his uniform.

15 Q When was he wearing his uniform?

16 A Him and another sergeant had put out a Christmas card in which

17 both of them were in uniform and they were holding barnyard

18 animals. That was pretty clear to me and some others that it

19 had a hidden meaning. At the time, he was on medical leave, I

20 believe, because of an injury. So he was unshaven, looked

21 unprofessional and clearly, if myself were to put out that

22 Christmas card, I don't think that it would have met the same

23 kind of reception.

24 Q Did I hear you say that they were holding a barnyard animal or

25 did I --

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1 A Yeah, you did.

2 Q What was the barnyard animal?

3 A A chicken.

4 Q A chicken?

5 A One of them had a cat, I believe.

6 Q And what was the hidden meaning?

7 A I hate to be graphic, but cocks and pussies.

8 Q To whom did they send this Christmas card?

9 A It was posted in the patrol room at the sheriff's office and I

10 think at the substation as well.

11 Q So it was an internal joke essentially?

12 A I presume they meant it as a joke.

13 Q Was it ever published publicly?

14 A I digitized it and I think that I published it somewhat

15 publicly, not totally, but to friends.

16 Q Did --

17 A I actually sent a copy to the chief and the lieutenant, so they

18 would have an actual copy of it.

19 Q Who were the two people that were in it? Mede and who else?

20 A Beth Larson.

21 Q Larson. Did Mede or Larson ever publish that card publicly?

22 A I don't know. I mean, if it was whether it could be viewed by

23 members of the public in the sheriff's office? Possibly.

24 Potentially. We have lots of members of the public that come

25 back there. So it could have been viewed by the public. But I

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1 don't know that it was intentionally targeted to the public.

2 Q Okay.

3 A Not to my knowledge.

4 Q Is that the extent of what you talked about in your interview

5 with Chadwick and Rossmiller about what you thought was

6 unethical or concerning conduct by Mede?

7 A I believe so.

8 Q Have you ever been sued?

9 A Um, I think that I was named in a lawsuit as a deputy.

10 Q What became of that lawsuit?

11 A I -- it disappeared. It went away.

12 Q Did you ever have your deposition taken in the case?

13 A I've given a deposition, yes. I did, yeah. I did. It was the

14 guy suing -- was suing Whatcom County and I was part of the

15 suit. That's a really hard last name. Jaharashda. It was a

16 Canadian that was related to an investigation that I was

17 working on. (Phonetic)

18 Q Was it a false arrest case or excessive force?

19 A No. We seized some of his vehicles that were stolen. They

20 were reported stolen and he wanted them back. I think that he

21 got -- I think that he got summary judgment in the end. I

22 don't remember now.

23 Q Do you understand that a party to a lawsuit has a right to

24 attend proceedings in the case in which they're being sued?

25 A Yeah. I totally understand that Sheriff Elfo has every right

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1 to be here. It's still intimidating. I think that you end up

2 not getting full disclosure from potential witnesses who are

3 concerned.

4 Q So you think that he ought to stay away? Is that it?

5 A I do. I don't think that there's anything necessarily to be

6 gained. You can certainly read depositions. Mr. Murphy is not

7 here.

8 Q In 2006, and 7 when Murphy was the property crimes

9 investigator, what was your position?

10 A Detective.

11 Q Did you work in the same area?

12 A Yeah. I think right next to him, adjoining cubes.

13 Q Did you have cubicles?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Did you observe his performance, his conduct on a regular

16 basis?

17 A I don't know that I really observed or managed. Can you be

18 more specific? I'm not trying to be difficult.

19 Q Were you in any way his supervisor?

20 A No.

21 Q Were you in any way a mentor of his?


23 Q Did you share cases in any way?

24 A Yeah. I remember working with him on some property related

25 issues because, as I recall, I was the property crimes guy just

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1 before he was. So we collaborated on pawned detail stuff, but

2 I don't remember any specific investigations.

3 Q Would you say that you helped him with cases?

4 A I would say that we collaborated. I don't know that he helped

5 me or I helped him, to be honest with you.

6 Q Okay. Would you go to him to seek advice or to engage in

7 collaboration about your cases?

8 A Yeah. I mean, Paul was pretty much the go-to guy when it came

9 to specific thefts, specifically like farm equipment and heavy

10 equipment, that sort of thing. I know that he worked on

11 developing policy and using the bait car program for property

12 thefts kind of thing, so he had a lot of information about

13 that.

14 Q How many times have you been elected guild president?

15 A This would be the second or third. I don't remember. The

16 second or third.

17 Q What's --

18 A There may have been -- I think that there was an interim. I

19 was elected to fill in the remainder of Cooley's term and then

20 I was elected president and then I stepped down. And then I

21 was elected to fill the remainder of Mede's term and then I was

22 elected as full-time. So, like, three or four times. And then

23 I was elected as vice president too.

24 Q When were you first elected to fill the term of Cooley?

25 A It would have been when he was promoted to lieutenant, so I

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1 don't remember what year that was.

2 Q Why did you step down at some point?

3 A To run for election.

4 Q Were you encouraged to step down by members of the guild?

5 A A couple of them.

6 Q One of them was Mede?

7 A Yeah. I think another one was Brian Oswalt.

8 Q Would you have remained in the position through the election if

9 they hadn't spoken up?

10 A You know, I had gotten much more encouragement to actually

11 remain, so I don't know. I mean, ultimately what I ended up

12 doing was putting it out. What it came down to was whether or

13 not it was deemed to be a conflict of interest, me being the

14 president of the guild and running for election.

15 I consulted with our attorneys and consulted with the --

16 talked to the county's negotiator, Bob Ron, about whether it

17 would be a conflict, a potential conflict and anyone else that

18 I could talk to. Nobody seemed to think that it was a conflict

19 of interest, but it was -- certainly had reservations as you

20 saw the e-mail from Mr. Mede. I think that Brian Oswalt had a

21 similar e-mail. I don't know whether he responded to Kevin's

22 or it was before it. So there was certainly some concerns.

23 Q On each of the times when you have run for election for the

24 guild president position, have you had opponents?

25 A That's a good question. I don't think so. I don't think --

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1 nobody really wants to do the job. It's a thankless job and it

2 doesn't make you any points here. I take that back. I think

3 that I ran against Steve Cooley originally when he was elected,

4 and lost.

5 (Marked Deposition Exhibit No. 40)

6 Q (By Mr. Butler) Showing you Exhibit 40, Deputy Harris, is this

7 a memo that you wrote to Sheriff Elfo?

8 A Yeah.

9 Q It's dated August 12, 2008?

10 A Yeah.

11 Q Are the contents of that memo true and correct to the best of

12 your knowledge?

13 A As it purports to be the document that I sent, yes.

14 Q And this was authored in the year after Murphy had left the

15 property crimes investigator position; is that right?

16 A No. That's not correct. He was still in the property crimes

17 position, which is why I wrote it, I believe.

18 Q Because my understanding is that he left that position at the

19 end of 2007 and rotated back into patrol. Does that help your

20 recollection?

21 A I don't remember it being after. I mean, if you say that

22 that's correct then -- I thought that I wrote this when he was

23 still back there because I remember the incident. And I talked

24 to it in the bottom of the first page as being kind of the

25 catalyst of why I brought it up.

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1 Q So the event that prompted the preparation of this was the

2 incident involving Undersheriff James presenting him with the

3 ball cap and him coming back to his cubicle?

4 A Right.

5 Q And accusing nearby people of having tampered with his

6 computer?

7 A Yeah.

8 Q And saying that he thought that the offer of the ball cap was

9 an effort to draw him away from his workplace. Is that the

10 incident that prompted this?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Was that concerning to you?

13 A Yeah. I talked to him about it even afterwards in private. I

14 told him that I didn't appreciate it and, you know, nobody

15 really had any interest in the stuff on his computer.

16 Q Were other deputies or detectives who worked in that area

17 concerned about his behavior in that incident?

18 A I don't know.

19 Q Did you talk to other detectives about that incident?

20 A I probably did. I don't remember having specific

21 conversations, but it's likely that I did.

22 Q Was Beth Larson concerned about it?

23 A You know, I'm not sure. I don't remember. It's possible.

24 Like I said, I'm not ruling it out. I could have talked to her

25 about it.

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1 Q Was she a detective at that time?

2 A I don't know. I say that because she left and then came back,

3 so I don't remember what intervening period that was. It's

4 upsetting that this is now part of a public venue. It was

5 meant to be confidential.

6 Q Did you meet with Sheriff Elfo in connection with presenting

7 him with this memo?

8 A I met with him and the undersheriff first before I did the

9 memo, I believe.

10 Q Do you know that he was referred to Dr. Ekemo for counseling in

11 part because of this memo?

12 A Yeah. When I first came to the sheriff and the undersheriff,

13 that was what I suggested that he do to clarify once and for

14 all whether or not there was any clinical issues going on or

15 whether it was just attributed to his type of personality.

16 Q Did Sheriff Elfo or anyone else in the chain of command or Dr.

17 Ekemo ever contact you further about any outcome of this memo

18 or any counseling by Dr. Ekemo?

19 A I honestly don't remember.

20 Q Okay.

21 A I don't think that it was ever followed up on, but -- I mean,

22 with me personally. I mean, it's obviously at the point that

23 the doctor becomes involved, it becomes a HIPAA related issues

24 so I don't think that they would have shared it with me anyway.

25 Q Okay. Describe what you heard or saw that relates to the

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1 matter that is referred to in the third paragraph of that memo.

2 I'll read part of it here. "Paul had openly discussed with

3 another deputy his feelings that Marvin Wolf is an agent for

4 Mossad (Intelligence Agency for Israel)."

5 What was it that you heard or saw that related to that

6 matter?

7 A You know, I'm reading this and to be honest with you, I don't

8 remember specifically who I talked to about it. Somebody told

9 me and when they told me, I was -- it was quite surprising and

10 alarming to say the least.

11 Q Did you know Marvin Wolf?

12 A Yes. Still do.

13 Q Do you have any suspicions that he was some kind of undercover

14 agency -- agent for any agency, whether Mossad or other?

15 A I had thought that he was at one point in time for whatever

16 reason.

17 Q Did you think that he was operating in the sheriff's office to

18 gather intelligence to use externally?

19 A For like, Israel? No, I didn't. He was an intelligence

20 officer here at the sheriff's office. He worked on Homeland

21 Security issues. But I don't -- if you're implying, did I

22 think that he was a spy for a foreign government, no.

23 Q And then this next issue on the third paragraph, I'll read

24 this. It says -- since it begins in the middle of a sentence,

25 it won't be complete. But the part I'm going to read is:

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1 "That upper level Whatcom County Government Officials are part

2 of a conspiracy to traffic drugs through Whatcom County; to

3 include the purchase of land in the South Lake Whatcom area for

4 the purposes of landing seaplanes."

5 So what was it that you saw or heard that prompted you

6 to put that in this memo?

7 A That pretty much explains it. I guess the other only other

8 thing that I could add on there is that the upper level person

9 was Pete Kremen.

10 Q County Executive?

11 A Former County Executive.

12 Q Who did you hear this from?

13 A It was the same person. And to be -- I honestly don't remember

14 who it was that I talked to about it.

15 Q Did you ever talk to Murphy about it?

16 A I think that I did actually.

17 Q What is --

18 A Now that I'm thinking about this, I remember that he kind of

19 laughed about it, which made me think that perhaps he was just

20 yanking the chain of the deputy who relayed this to me in the

21 first place.

22 Q Did you think that this story had any credibility?

23 A You know, it's one of those things where when I remember

24 talking to him, he raised some points that -- you could be led

25 down that direction if you followed the train of logic that he

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1 was using. Do I think that that's what is happening? No.

2 But when you -- as an investigator, you can take -- I

3 hate to use pop culture -- but the Glenn Beck mentality of

4 using the board to draw names on it and draw links and say,

5 hey, here's the connection. That's kind of what Paul did.

6 Whether he was being serious, I didn't talk to him

7 originally before I got the information, so I can't speculate

8 on whether he was serious or not.

9 I can tell you that I remember now talking to him

10 afterwards. It was my impression from him that he wasn't

11 serious. He was using, you know, obviously, some extremes to

12 make a point.

13 And it was -- now it is coming back to me. It was a

14 Hells Angels connection that he was making and that they are --

15 as a fact -- known to traffic narcotics in the Whatcom County

16 using aircraft and other means. And you know, the South Lake

17 Whatcom property, it just -- again, how far down the rabbit

18 hole you want to go?

19 Q What was the train of logic that Murphy used to connect the

20 County Executive Pete Kremen to a conspiracy to trafficking

21 drugs through Whatcom County?

22 A I think that I answered it, but I'll go through it again. That

23 the County Executive would be the executive in charge of land

24 acquisition of the South Lake Whatcom transfer.

25 If you believe, which I think that most people do, that

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1 the Hells Angels are actually part of narcotics trafficking in

2 the United States, including Whatcom County, it doesn't take a

3 leap of logic to think that they're using the forest areas.

4 They're using the lakes. They're using the marine environment

5 to transfer their drugs here.

6 If you had a government official who was part of that.

7 Let's face it, that happens all of the time where you get that,

8 it is not a far stretch to believe that that was the purpose of

9 acquiring the property.

10 Q Who was acquiring the property on South Lake Whatcom?

11 A I want to clarify here why we're going down here that we're not

12 talking about -- we're speculating as to the line that Paul was

13 using to make the link. As I previously stated, I don't think

14 that Paul was serious originally, but it was viewed as such.

15 But to answer your question, the -- it would be Pete

16 Kremen through the county government that would be using his

17 position as Executive to acquire property that was going to be

18 used by the Hells Angels motorcycle club with self, perhaps,

19 profiting by moving narcotics into Lake Whatcom.

20 Q I'm not asking you to speculate. I'm asking you to tell me

21 what Murphy told you. He may have been speculating. We don't

22 know.

23 A Sure.

24 Q So I'm asking what he told you.

25 A I don't remember the specifics. Like I said, I remember having

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1 a conversation about him. I remember that it involved the

2 Hells Angels. I remember that it involved Pete Kremen and I

3 remember him laughing about it.

4 Q What did Murphy say was the connection between Pete Kremen and

5 the Hells Angels?

6 A I don't remember him making a specific connection.

7 Q Did he make some connection between the county and the Hells

8 Angels?

9 A No. Not that I recall.

10 Q Has that led you to think that this was evidence of paranoid

11 behavior exhibited by him that led you to have concern for his

12 mental health?

13 A Right. If I were to -- exactly. You know, like I said, a

14 deputy came to me and relayed this information to me. And in

15 taking in a vacuum without context, it was certainly alarming

16 and concerning. It didn't -- it didn't seem unusual for his --

17 as I have said, he's got some pretty radical political views.

18 But coupled with -- like I said, the most concerning thing was

19 the stuff that I actually witnessed related to detectives.

20 When I coupled that with the other things, put it in a

21 grand scheme, I'm like, hey, you know what, maybe there is

22 something to this. Maybe it needs to be investigated.

23 It's my understanding that they hired a psychologist or

24 psychiatrist to evaluate Paul and I'm assuming that he came up

25 free and clear because he still remained to be a deputy

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1 sheriff.

2 Q Then on page -- the second page of Exhibit -- what's that

3 number? It's 40. You refer to another instance, and I'll read

4 part of that. "In another instance, Paul had asked me what I

5 knew about 'Oka'." And that's in quotation marks.

6 "When I told him I didn't know what he was talking

7 about, he told me that he was a Mohawk Indian and one of his

8 relatives was involved in the incident which involved the

9 Quebec National Police." And then in parenthesis it says,

10 "(Sûerté du Québec)."

11 And then it continues, "Paul was concerned because

12 members of the Sûerté du Québec were going to be participating

13 in a SRT training and wondered how they knew that he was a

14 Mohawk Indian."

15 Have I read that correctly?

16 A Yes.

17 Q I may have mispronounced something, but --

18 A Yes.

19 Q -- have I read it correctly?

20 A I wouldn't know if you did.

21 Q Okay. Is this something that Paul Murphy said to you directly?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Were there others present when he said this?

24 A I was in detectives, but I don't know if anyone ever heard it.

25 Q Okay. Did you immediately consider that to be bizarre?

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1 A Yeah. Because it was a -- it was bizarre that it was out of

2 context. I mean, I don't know where -- I had no idea that they

3 were going to be training with SRT. You know, I think that he

4 presumed that I knew a lot more about them being here than I

5 actually did. So, yeah, it was bizarre.

6 Q Did you think that there was any connection between the visit

7 of these Quebec police and Paul Murphy and his membership in

8 the Mohawk tribe?

9 A I think that's what I imply. He asked how he knew that they

10 were -- that he was a Mohawk Indian. No. I don't think that

11 if they were here training with SRT that it had anything to do

12 with Paul Murphy.

13 Q Did you ever see any of those people around the sheriff's

14 office?

15 A No. I don't know.

16 Q From that Quebec police agency?

17 A I don't recall seeing them. If those guys came in plain

18 clothes, perhaps they did.

19 Q Did you ever learn that they had had any connection to Paul

20 Murphy? Any interest in him?

21 A No.

22 Q Further down on the second page of Exhibit 40. It says, "In

23 yet another incident, Paul had made a comment during a

24 Detective Staff Meeting." And then in parenthesis it says,

25 "(You may have been there) that he was so distraught with Penny

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1 working the front desk and her alleged connections with OMG

2 groups that any informant he brought into the office would have

3 to wear a black mask to protect their identities."

4 Have I read that correctly?

5 A Yeah.

6 Q Did you find that to be a bizarre statement as well?

7 A I thought that it was unusual. It was unusual. I remember

8 even after he said it, like, if you have concerns -- his

9 concern was about the identity of his informants.

10 What was unusual about it is why you would put a mask on

11 somebody to bring them into the sheriff's office if you had

12 concerns. I expressed to him, why wouldn't you meet the

13 informant at a location that isn't the sheriff's office?

14 Q Okay.

15 A I think that his concerns about Penny were not unusual at all.

16 I mean, that was -- lots of people had suspected that she may

17 -- either a relative or knew somebody who was involved in the

18 Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs.

19 Q Were you aware of facts indicating that she was in some way

20 associated with Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs?

21 A Not specific threats. Again, this is talk amongst the guys in

22 the office. I didn't have any specific information in front of

23 me that I would -- if I had, I certainly would have acted on

24 it.

25 Q Okay. You apparently have some background in, at least,

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1 experiencing a person with clinical paranoia; is that correct?

2 A Yes.

3 Q You're not a psychologist, are you?

4 A No.

5 Q Licensed or educated in psychology?

6 A No.

7 Q Nevertheless, you did quote the DSM IV.

8 A I did.

9 Q Diagnostic manual relating to the mental condition that is, I

10 believe, characterized as paranoid personality disorder; is

11 that right?

12 A Yeah.

13 Q Was it legitimate for you to be concerned about Paul Murphy's

14 mental condition based on the things that you have recited here

15 in this memo?

16 A Yup. That's why I put them in the memo. Yes. I was

17 concerned. I was concerned about his mental health.

18 Q And despite the fact that you're not an expert on psychology,

19 you recognize that the sheriff ought to know about this, didn't

20 you?

21 A I was concerned enough to bring it -- again, what I thought was

22 confidentially -- to the sheriff and the undersheriff so that

23 they could, you know, hire a mental health counselor to see

24 whether or not he actually had a clinical problem, because I

25 wasn't an expert.

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1 They did that. I can tell you that it's offensive that

2 the fact that I came forward to them was relayed to Paul as

3 something other than what I can characterize as an attempt to

4 discredit me and create animosity between me and Paul.

5 Q How do you know that that's been done?

6 A Because Mr. Elfo put it -- Sheriff Elfo put it in his memo to

7 Paul, that the then president of the guild brought forth

8 information that questioned his mental health.

9 I think that it was entirely inappropriate. It served

10 no purpose but to embarrass me and cause problems with me and

11 Paul.

12 Q Is it legitimate for the sheriff to be concerned about the

13 mental health of a deputy of his office, based on the kind of

14 information that you provided to him?

15 A Absolutely it is, but he had no legitimate reason to identify

16 me personally. He could have relayed the information to Paul

17 as a member of the sheriff's office. He didn't have to

18 identify me specifically and couch it in the former guild

19 president, which serves no meaning other than to identify me.

20 Q Did you ever discuss this memo with Paul Murphy?

21 A This particular memo?

22 Q Yes.

23 A Yes.

24 Q When?

25 A After he was terminated.

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1 Q How did that conversation come up?

2 A Because I read the investigation in which included the memo

3 that Sheriff Elfo put in his file that said that the guild

4 president had concerns. So I addressed it with him and we

5 vetted it out.

6 Q As guild president, you're someone who looks out for the

7 welfare of deputies in a broad general sense, would you agree?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And that's a proper thing for you to do as guild president,

10 isn't it?

11 A It is, but I want to -- I specifically told the sheriff and

12 undersheriff that this wasn't a guild related matter. I was

13 coming to them as a concerned employee. It had nothing to do

14 with me being the guild president.

15 Q While you have been guild president, have -- has the guild

16 agreed with any terminations of deputies -- deputies or other

17 members of the sheriff's office?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Have any of those terminations been reversed in the grievance

20 process?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Which ones?

23 A Andy Koch.

24 Q How do you spell his last name?

25 A K-O-C-H.

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1 Q When did that occur?

2 A In '10 -- 2010 maybe. I'm guessing. I would have to look at

3 the file. It could have been 2009.

4 Q Do you understand the obligation of deputy sheriffs who treat

5 members of the public that they come into contact with for law

6 enforcement purposes, in a way that is -- that is not

7 discriminatory on the basis of race, sex, religion, national

8 origin and all of those characteristics that the law refers to?

9 A Sure.

10 Q Is it reasonable for the sheriff and his administrators to be

11 concerned about whether a person is inclined to discriminate

12 against people of some race, sex, religion, nationality and so

13 on?

14 A It's not only reasonable. It's to be expected. He should be

15 doing that.

16 Q Do you understand that when the sheriff's office has

17 information that there is -- has been a policy violation by a

18 deputy sheriff, that they have an obligation or a need to

19 investigate that to some extent at least?

20 A Yeah. Absolutely.

21 Q One of the things that you said -- I may have heard this

22 incorrectly, but it prompts this question: Have you ever been

23 asked to find a way to get rid of an employee?

24 A Close.

25 Q What was your --

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1 A I have been asked as the guild if there was anything that I

2 could do to essentially help get rid of a sheriff's office

3 employee who wasn't a guild member at the time. It was a

4 chief.

5 Q Who was that?

6 A Who was it that asked me?

7 Q Who was the chief?

8 A Kevin Moyes.

9 Q Who asked you?

10 A Then Undersheriff Carey James.

11 Q So was he asking for information about misconduct by Kevin

12 Moyes?

13 A He was aware of the guild's concern that I had with Chief Moyes

14 at the time. He was quite frankly embarrassed that he was

15 going to the FBI Academy and said that he's an embarrassment to

16 this department. And he wondered if there's anything that the

17 guild could do to relate the information to the sheriff because

18 the sheriff evidently wasn't concerned about it.

19 Q Did you have information about Kevin Moyes that was negative to

20 his continued employment as a chief?

21 A Yes. I related that in a memo to the sheriff and it was

22 related to the Andy Koch investigation, which ultimately was

23 the reason, in my mind after going through the case, as to why

24 his termination was overturned.

25 But ultimately what I told the undersheriff is that he's

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1 in an at will position. If you guys don't like the job that

2 he's doing, then fire him.

3 Q At what step of the grievance process was the termination of

4 Andy Koch reversed?

5 A It must have been Step 3. It had to have been.

6 Q Who is the decision-maker in Step 3?

7 A Well, it was -- it was potentially going to go to arbitration.

8 So it would have been Sheriff Elfo, along with the county

9 administration. And that's a distinction that I make because

10 the county is the exclusive bargaining agent for the county.

11 The sheriff doesn't bargain for Whatcom County, if I can make

12 that distinction. But ultimately, Sheriff Elfo is part of the

13 decision-making process.

14 Q What does the collective bargaining agreement say is the

15 decision-maker at Step 3?

16 A It would be -- it says Whatcom County. The grievance is a

17 grievance with the employer. The employer is Whatcom County.

18 They're the exclusive bargaining agent. I believe that the CBA

19 says that. The sheriff can resolve a grievance at any stage, I

20 believe. I would have to go back and look.

21 Q Well, isn't the sheriff himself the employer of members of the

22 sheriff's office?

23 A No, he's not.

24 Q Does it say that in the collective bargaining agreement?

25 A Sheriff Elfo is the elected officer.

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1 Q No. My question is: Does it say that in the collective

2 bargaining agreement?

3 A Does it say what? I'm sorry.

4 Q That the sheriff is the -- that the employer of deputies is not

5 the sheriff, it is someone other than the sheriff?

6 A I don't know. I would have to look at it, the specific

7 language, to see what it says. But it does say that the

8 agreement is between Whatcom County and the deputy sheriff's

9 guild.

10 Q Doesn't the sheriff sign that agreement?

11 A I think that he's a signatory to it, but I also signed it.

12 Q Were you present at the December 15, 2011 meeting between the

13 sheriff and Murphy and Flynn and, I believe, one other

14 administrator?

15 A The early morning meeting where he got handed the certificate

16 of election?

17 Q The meeting where he asked -- where the sheriff asked Murphy

18 whether he was going to follow-up on his statements to other

19 deputies to leave --

20 A No. I wasn't there.

21 Q -- leave the office if he was reelected?

22 A No.

23 Q Where did you hear what had gone on in that meeting? Who told

24 you that?

25 A I read it in the investigation.

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1 Q Any other source for it?

2 A Paul.

3 Q Did you talk to Flynn about it?

4 A I didn't.

5 Q Have you read the transcripts of the Cooley interviews of

6 Murphy?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Did you find errors in there that somehow it had been

9 transcribed incorrectly?

10 A I don't recall.

11 Q Do you think that the questions that were asked as recorded

12 were the questions that Cooley asked of Murphy?

13 A Do I think that the questions in the transcript -- is that

14 another way of asking me: Do I think that it was properly

15 transcribed?

16 Q Well, yeah, in part. Do you think that there was any mistake

17 made in that questioning process?

18 A Well, I think that there was confusion in terms that were being

19 used during the questioning process. But, again, if you're

20 asking me, do I think that there was a mistake in transcribing

21 the way that the questions were asked? I don't think so. I

22 would have to go back and listen to the recording and compare

23 it to the transcript.

24 Q Did you attend the two interviews between Cooley and Murphy, or

25 just one?

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1 A I don't think that I was in the original interview at all. I

2 think that that was a Deputy Francis. The reason I say that is

3 because there's different investigations that occurred in a

4 short period of time. I was involved in one of them and I

5 don't -- I don't think that I sat in in that interview. I'm

6 almost positive that it was Erik Francis.

7 Q Why didn't the guild grieve Murphy's termination?

8 A The reason that I'm delaying is that I believe that it never

9 actually got filed. Ultimately, Paul chose to seek remedy

10 through the civil service process, which would preclude him

11 from filing a grievance. So that's why we didn't go forward it

12 with it.

13 Q Was any vote taken by any committee or the whole guild about

14 whether to grieve Murphy's termination?

15 A The whole guild wouldn't have voted on it but, yeah. I believe

16 that the grievance committee reviewed it and determined that we

17 should proceed, that there was sufficient evidence to believe

18 that he was terminated without just cause.

19 Q But Murphy's election of the civil service process precluded

20 that from happening?

21 A Correct.

22 Q Did you follow Murphy's political postings online during the

23 2011 campaign?

24 A Yeah.

25 Q And just to make sure that it's on the record, you were the

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1 opponent of Sheriff Elfo in the 2011 election after the

2 primary? You were the primary opponent; is that right?

3 A That's correct.

4 Q Did you read the Boot Bill Elfo postings?

5 A Yes. I believe that I did. I don't know that I read all of

6 them, but I would occasionally go to the site.

7 Q Did you encourage Murphy to make those postings?

8 A No.

9 Q Do you think that they helped your campaign?

10 A No. Not particularly.

11 Q Okay. Do you think that they harmed your campaign because they

12 were so nutty?

13 A Some. Sure it did. I certainly didn't solicit him to do that.

14 Q Did you ask him not to do it, that it was hurting you?

15 A I had a conversation with him and I think that it was to

16 clarify that he make it clear to people because there was some

17 other deputies posting on the site. And the implication was

18 that I'm the one who started the site or anything else. It was

19 clarifying with Paul that he relay to people that I had no

20 affiliation with the site, didn't start it, wasn't

21 administrator to it.

22 I think originally, I may have clicked a like button,

23 but then removed it when I decided that it wasn't anything that

24 I wanted to be involved in.

25 Q Did you recognize that he identified himself as a deputy

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1 sheriff in those postings?

2 A I don't know if he did or not, to be honest with you. It's

3 quite possible that he did.

4 Q You certainly knew that these were Paul Murphy's postings,

5 didn't you?

6 A Well, that's where it becomes problematic, because he wasn't

7 the only one. It was evident, if you look at them, that

8 there's other people posting as the administrator to the site

9 that isn't Paul because they're putting information that is not

10 even completely accurate. So I don't know.

11 Q But you understood that he was the primary authors of those --

12 of that website or Facebook page? Whatever you want to call

13 it?

14 A It's my understanding that he's the one who started the page

15 originally, yeah. I don't know that for a fact. He has never

16 -- I have never actually asked him if he is.

17 Q You got about 25 percent of the vote in the general election;

18 is that right?

19 A Okay.

20 Q And Sheriff Elfo got 75 percent of the vote?

21 A Yup. Of those who voted. I think that's right. Really close.

22 Q Did you ever hear from any voters that they thought that

23 because of the crazy things Paul Murphy was posting online that

24 they couldn't vote for you?

25 A No. The people that I heard from was actually just the

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1 opposite.

2 Q The 25 percent?

3 A That they -- okay. There were people that followed that page

4 that voted for me specifically because of some of the things

5 that came out on that page.

6 Q Oh, okay.

7 A I would suspect that they're using the same train of logic that

8 there's obviously, you know, Sheriff Elfo and his election team

9 were following the page. And anything that could be deemed to

10 be negative towards me, I'm sure was used, and I'm sure it

11 didn't influence people's decision not to vote for me as well.

12 Q Okay. There was a similar breakdown in the guild's vote to

13 endorse a candidate for sheriff.

14 A Sure.

15 Q Some 75 to 25. What -- do you think that that was negatively

16 -- that your vote in the sheriff's guild election was

17 negatively effected by Murphy's postings?

18 A No. The guild did the right thing. They should have endorsed

19 Bill, and they did.

20 Q Did you think that Murphy's anti-Elfo postings were another

21 manifestation of his paranoid behavior and beliefs?

22 A You would have to be specific.

23 Q You mean, I would have to show you a particular posting and

24 then --

25 A Sure.

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1 Q -- ask you whether you thought that --

2 A That would be fair.

3 Q -- this was similar to some of the paranoid things that he had

4 earlier recounted in Exhibit 40?

5 A Right. Paul is a very suspicious extreme person, but a very

6 loveable, huggable guy as well. He posts a lot of things that

7 create controversy.

8 MR. KAMERRER: I have no further questions.

9

10 EXAMINATION OF STEVE HARRIS BY MR. BUTLER

11

12 BY MR. BUTLER:

13 Q Looking at Exhibit 40. With regards to the questions that you

14 were asked about Carey James and taking him away from his desk

15 so that somebody could bug his -- bother his computer.

16 A Yes.

17 Q Were you aware that he had previously been demanded by

18 Rossmiller to open his computer and show him files?

19 A No.

20 Q Would, in your experience with Paul, would the prior demanding,

21 show me the files, cause him to be concerned about people

22 wanting access to his files?

23 MR. KAMERRER: I want to insert an objection that

24 calls for speculation about his mental condition and state.

25 THE WITNESS: Yeah. That would make sense. As I

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1 tried to allude in writing this, that I had concerns about Paul

2 when I wrote this memo.

3 Q (By Mr. Butler) Right. Were you aware when you wrote this

4 that he had been required to show Rossmiller files on his

5 computer?

6 A I had not, and that would explain it. I was only going to

7 elaborate on, like, the Mohawk Indian thing.

8 Q Uh-huh.

9 A When I got bits and pieces of this, and perhaps I jump to

10 conclusions like everybody else when you hear snapshots.

11 Again, I'm not suggesting that all Paul's beliefs or views are

12 accurate or should even be expressed, but I will say that

13 having talked to him after writing this --

14 Q Yes.

15 A -- and hearing information, it makes each of these things more

16 understandable as to why he had those concerns. Like I said, I

17 think that the issue of Lake Whatcom and Mossad, he was joking,

18 he was teasing a deputy, and -- he did it. He would lead

19 people down the road, Yeah, I'm a nut, I'm crazy. Did you hear

20 this? Did you hear this story? But when you hear it from

21 somebody that believed what he was saying, then that would make

22 you have concerns.

23 Q Okay. With regard to Marvin Wolf, what was his job

24 description?

25 A I don't know specifically. He volunteered at the sheriff's

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1 office with Homeland Security. He did Homeland Security

2 issues.

3 Q Okay. And this memo is written in 2008 and he saw Dr. Ekemo

4 subsequent to this. Does this memo and the whole line of

5 questioning about your concerns in 2008 around Paul, does that

6 change your testimony at all with regards to your opinion as to

7 why he was fired in 2012, four years later?

8 A No.

9 Q Did you ever see Dr. Ekemo's report after Paul's meeting with

10 him?

11 A I think that I did actually. I think that I read it.

12 Q Do you recall anything about it?

13 A Yeah. I think that I -- after reading it, it seemed that the

14 doctor didn't have any real concerns with him. He basically

15 said that Paul likes to talk about political issues and perhaps

16 shouldn't be so vocal in a work setting. But if I recall, he

17 didn't express any concerns as far as psychopathy or any other

18 mental health issues that he was having.

19 Q So do you recall that Dr. Ekemo indicated that his website

20 activity was actually a positive release for Paul to be able to

21 have that speech?

22 A Yes. I actually do remember that because I think that he had a

23 different website then too.

24 Q And to your knowledge, based on your personal contact with

25 other members of the sheriff's department, are you aware of any

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1 other deputies or administrative staff who hold maybe not as

2 extreme, but extreme political views similar to Paul?

3 A I think that there's many people in our department that have

4 extreme political point of views. The big difference is they

5 aren't, you know, in your face about it, for lack of a better

6 word. They're not as willing to discuss it and talk about it.

7 Q Okay.

8 A But I've had private conversations with deputies that are

9 really quite similar to discussions that I've had with Paul.

10 Q Okay.

11 A I think ultimately this, again, becomes a piece that -- that

12 should this specific document be used to betray Paul or --

13 unfairly so, to help the ultimate goal of firing him.

14 Q Okay.

15 A I don't even know why it's being brought up.

16 Q Okay. All right.

17 A Other than to impeach my testimony.

18 Q Do you think that it does? I mean, four years later?

19 A I don't think that it does.

20 Q Okay.

21 A I mean, it's clear. But, you know, when I talk about a guy

22 being a great investigator and a good employee and this is used

23 -- well, in 2008, you thought that he had suffered from mental

24 health issues. Well, that's fair and that's right. I was

25 concerned about it. But, you know, I have learned better.

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1 Q In the investigation into Mede where you called him -- the

2 first words out of your mouth, I believe that you said that he

3 was a liar.

4 A Right.

5 Q Didn't you also say that you thought that he was a good

6 supervisor and did a good job as a supervisor? He just needed

7 to tone it down a little bit with being everybody's friend in

8 the supervisory role?

9 A Yeah. I think that's being mischaracterized a bit. And,

10 unfortunately, they didn't record those interviews.

11 Q But you weren't all negative about Mede in that interview;

12 correct?

13 A No. Not at all.

14 Q Okay.

15 A I did say that he's very proactive on the job as a supervisor

16 and, you know, he seems to be concerned about his on-the-job

17 duties. I don't have any particular issues. I do remember

18 complimenting him on that side of things.

19 Q Okay. Were you on the grievance committee that determined that

20 there was no just cause for Murphy's termination from the

21 guild?

22 A No. I was the president at the time.

23 Q So that's other members of the guild?

24 A Correct.

25 MR. BUTLER: Okay. Thank you. I have nothing

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1 further.

2 MR. KAMERRER: I have a couple of more questions.


4

5 EXAMINATION OF STEVE HARRIS BY MR. KAMERRER

6

7 BY MR. KAMERRER:

8 Q Regarding Exhibit 40 and the paragraph that talks about the

9 incident involving the ball cap with the Undersheriff Carey

10 James.

11 A Yeah.

12 Q During the time that Murphy was away from his workspace

13 receiving that ball cap from the undersheriff, did Lieutenant

14 Rossmiller come around the cubicles and look at his computer?


16 Q The essence of paranoia is believing something that isn't true.

17 Would you agree with that?

18 A No. I can be paranoid about things that are actually

19 occurring.

20 Q Have you written any other memorandums at any other time to any

21 administration, sheriff's office administration officials about

22 another employee and concern for his or her mental condition?

23 A Not about mental condition. I have written memos about other

24 employees.

25 Q I'm specifically asking you about mental conditions. Have you

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1 ever written such a memo?

2 A No. Not that -- not to my knowledge. I don't think so.

3 Q I think that maybe I asked this before, but did you ever

4 supervise Murphy?

5 A No. I was -- no.

6 Q Did he ever supervise you?

7 A He never supervised me. I mean, there's a possibility that I

8 was an acting supervisor for the day, which would make me

9 supervising him, but I don't recall a specific incident. I

10 wasn't his regular supervisor.

11 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. That's all of the questions that

12 I have.

13 MR. BUTLER: Nothing further.

14 (Signature Reserved)

15 (Deposition Adjourned)

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20

21

22

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1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) ) ss.

3 COUNTY OF ISLAND )

4 I, Kristen M. Uhlig, the undersigned CCR in and for the Stateof Washington, do hereby certify:

5 That the annexed and foregoing deposition of the witness

6 named herein was taken stenographically before me and transcribedby me;

7 I further certify that the witness examined, read, and signed

8 the deposition after the same was transcribed, unless indicated inthe record that the parties and the witness waive the signature;

9 I further certify that all of the objections made at the time

10 of said examination to my qualifications or the manner of takingthe deposition, or to the conduct of any party, have been noted by

11 me upon said deposition;

12 I further certify that I am not a relative or employee orattorney or counsel of any of the parties to said action or

13 counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the saidaction or the outcome thereof;

14 I further certify that the deposition, as transcribed, is a

15 full, true, and accurate transcript of the testimony, including allquestions and answers, and all objections, motions and exceptions

16 of counsel made and taken at the time of the foregoing examination;

17 I further certify that I am sealing the deposition in anenvelope with the title to the above cause thereon and marked

18 "Deposition Upon Oral Examination" of said witness and promptlycausing the same to be delivered or forwarded to Counsel for the

19 Opposing Party;

20 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixedmy official seal this ___ day of____________, 2014.

21

22 __________________________

23 Kristen M. Uhlig, #1934 Certified Court Reporter,

24 Residing in Clinton, Washington.

25

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Deputy X12, WCSO - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

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