100401 Olson Transcript

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CENTER FOR

STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES (CSIS)

USSOCOM: FUNCTION AND FOCUS

WELCOME:

JOHN HAMRE,

PRESIDENT AND CEO,

CSIS

MODERATORS:

RICK NELSON,

DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY

AND COUNTERTERRORISM PROGRAM, CSIS

JIM MIKLASZEWSKI,

CHIEF PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT,

NBC NEWS

SPEAKERS:

ADM. ERIC OLSON,

COMMANDER,

U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

KENNETH P. RAPUANO,

DIRECTOR, ADVANCED SYSTEMS AND POLICY ANALYSIS,

MITRE CORPORATION

MICHELE L. MALVESTI,

VICE PRESIDENT, SPECIAL PROGRAMS,

INTELLIGENCE, SECURITY AND TECHNOLOGY GROUP,

SCIENCE APPLICATIONS INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION

THURSDAY, APRIL 1, 2010

9:00 A.M.

WASHINGTON, D.C.

Transcript by

Federal News Service

Washington, D.C.


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JOHN HAMRE: Well, you can tell you know, I always gauge the success of a meeting

by the kind of energy in the room, and weve got so much energy in the room, its hard to controlthem. Its got to be you, Eric. At this hour of the day on the Thursday, normally, peoples blood

sugar is so low, theyre sleeping rather peacefully through the procession. Not today; its goingto be great. Welcome. Were glad youre all here.

This is a great opportunity for us, as we continue the Military Strategy Forum. And I dowant to say a special thanks to our friends at Rolls-Royce that are able to make this possible for

us to do this, for the Washington policy community. Great pleasure to welcome Eric Olson.

This is Id just asked him wed not met before, although Ive known him reputationally, and I

assume any guy with the name Eric Olson whos from Seattle had to either be Norwegian orSwedish.

And it turns out hes Cherokee. (Laughter.) I said, okay, so I really kind of blew thatwide open. So much for my ethnic stereotyping. I should have known, however, because hes

got the reputation for being tougher than a woodpeckers lips. And hes had every command that

you can have in the Special Forces, and of course, is now at the top. And its a great opportunityfor us to have him here. Thank you, Eric.

You know, this is an important discussion for us to be having, as a policy community that

thinks about national security. I was up on the Hill when the act was created that createdprogram 11. And at the time, it was a Hobbesian choice, because it was a community that was

suffering inside a big military establishment that didnt value it. And then the question was, how

do you promote it? You promote it by giving it an independent status and standing, but then itcreated more structural barriers that we have to work through.

And I think thats the central question, of how do we integrate a force thats out everyday far more engaged than normal forces, and has been, I think, nonstop but make it part of

the whole? And were still working on that. And this is why Im so anxious to hear Erics

thoughts this morning, and our panelists, who are going to share further conversation with us. So

its a wonderful morning. Thank you all for coming. Let me turn it to Ozzie Nelson, whosgoing to do this for real and give you a proper introduction. Thanks, Eric.

RICHARD OZZIE NELSON: Well, welcome, everyone. My name is Rick OzzieNelson, and Im the director of the homeland security and counterterrorism program today. Ill

be the moderator for the first part of our event, which will be Adm. Olsons remarks, and then

well allow the admiral to depart, and then well break into the panel, which will be hosted byJim Miklaszewski.

Adm. Olson is the eighth commander of Special Operations Command. His bio is infront of you. I wont read it to you. After reading his bio, I realized that mine was probably four

sizes too big. So now I need to go back and reduce mine. If he can capture his very prestigious


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career in such short language, I must be able to capture mine. But basically, he has served in a

variety almost every role as a special operator, from a staff officer to a peacekeeper to adirect-action individual.

And he is obviously well-respected and is the first Navy four-star SEAL in the history of

the community. We were just talking about that beforehand. After the admiral gives hisremarks, well go ahead and go into some questions for the admiral. Ill be the moderator, which

is, I get the one with the big ruler.

Theyre questions and answers, not statements and answers, so out of respect for the

admiral and his time, please limit your remarks to a question and give the admiral an opportunityto respond to it. And we will have microphones about, too, so you can ask your question with a

microphone. But we are truly honored to have Adm. Olson here, and sir, Ill go ahead and turn

it over to you. (Applause.)

ADM. ERIC OLSON: Good morning. Thank you, Ozzie. Dr. Hamre, thanks for that

kind introduction. I do claim some Cherokee blood, but I also cant deny my Scandahoovianroots. I am honored to be here with you this morning. Thank you for being here. I relish thisopportunity to represent the members of the United States Special Operations Command all

that, that great force does.

My remarks today will follow a simple progression. Ill begin with an overview of the

United States Special Operations Command, its functions and its authorities, and then Ill talk

about SOCOMs role in the current operational environment. And finally, Ill talk about the

future environment and how I see United States Special Operations Command fitting into whatthe United States and the United States Department of Defense do in the future.

At the end of my remarks, I do look forward to an informal question-and-answer periodwith you. Ill be especially eager to discuss what United States Special Operations Command is

doing with its budget and its acquisition authorities. My purpose this morning is clearly not to

market United States Special Operations Command or special operations forces. The peoplewho serve in the operational units are by far the best representatives of the talent and capabilities

that this community has to offer.

Im more here to educate. The United States Special Operations Command and itsspecial operations forces are unique within the Department of Defense. Their roles and missions

are unique, and were unique in how we prepare and present our force to operational

commanders around the world who employ them. Much of this is quite nuanced, but I think itsuseful for this audience, especially, to understand it. And I dont mean to sound professorial in

my presentation this morning at all, but I will support any of your requests for college credit

when Im done. (Laughter.)

Let me begin with a brief history of how United States Special Operations Command

came to be and the basic architecture and functions of the command. Some of you lived throughthis, but its worth a review. This will be a SOCOM 101, of sorts. The Department of Defense

activated United States Special Operation Command about 23 years ago. In fact, were about


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three weeks shy of our 23rd

birthday. April 16th

, 1987, activated at Mac Dill Air Force Base,

Florida, where the commander and the staff of the United States Readiness Command were sortof reflavored as the United States Special Operations Command.

The first commander, Gen. Jim Lindsay, who was on his way to take command of

Readiness Command, was renominated and reconfirmed as the first commander of United StatesSpecial Operations Command en route. This is established as a result of law the unified

combatant command was created, as legislated by an amendment to the National DefenseReauthorization Act of 1986 often known as the Nunn-Cohen amendment or Cohen-Nunn

amendment, depending on whos secretary of defense at the time.

As a follow-on to the Goldwater-Nichols Defense Reorganization Act, Congress

mandated that a four-star command be established and demanded that it be a four-star command

in order to give it true parity with the other unified combatant commands, and that it be

established to prepare special operations forces to carry out assigned missions and, if directed bythe president or the secretary of defense, to plan for and conduct special operations.

Title X, section 167 of United States Code defines United States Special OperationsCommand, its authorities and its responsibilities, which uniquely combine certain aspects of the

other combatant commands, the military departments and certain defense agencies. So uniquely,

United States Special Operations Command does have its own budget authorities and budgetresponsibilities through major force program as Dr. Hamre described it major force program

11 in the Department of Defense budget.

It is provided separately to the secretary of defense for the purpose of answering thoserequirements that are peculiar to special operations in nature, and the commander of Special

Operations Command is the manager and executor of that budget. Additionally, we have our

own acquisition authorities so that Special Operations Command can develop and procure anddevelop includes research and development activities and then procure special operations-

peculiar equipment, supplies or services.

And the headquarters is also responsible for the development of special operations

doctrine, just as military services write their own doctrine, and responsible for the training and

education of special operations skills and knowledge, relying on the services for service-common

aspects of that. But Special Operations Command, again, is responsible for the specialoperations-peculiar aspects of training and education.

Before September 11, 2001, U.S. SOCOMs primary focus was on organizing, trainingand equipping special operations force and providing forces to support the geographic combatant

commanders of the world Central Command, European Command, Pacific Command and the

like also supported U.S. ambassadors and their country teams.

This was steady work, kept our operational force employed and deployed about 25

percent of the time meaning about 25 percent of the force, on any given day, was outside of theUnited States in support of operational commanders and U.S. ambassadors, mostly conducting

theater security engagement activities with counterpart forces in several-dozen countries at a


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time, and over the course of a typical year, would have served in 120 to 140 different countries

around the world.

In 2004, with the force heavily engaged in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the secretary of

defense and the president expanded the United States Special Operations Commands

responsibilities, and, when finally codified as policy, U.S. SOCOM was assigned as thecombatant command responsible for synchronizing the Department of Defenses planning for

global operations against violent extremist organizations and networks.

Synchronizing was not a doctrinal term at the time. Synchronizing needed to be defined.

And so it was defined through the codification process that assigned United States SpecialOperations Command that authority. And it is essentially the responsibility synchronization is

arranging in time, place and purpose, actions for maximum or optimum effect. But note that I

said we synchronize planning; we dont synchronize operations. The operations themselves are

synchronized by the operational commanders, who have responsibility for the outcome of theoperations. And in that case, we are clearly in a supporting role and we are a force provider.

The geographic combatant commanders each have a subunified special operationscommand, known as a theater special operations command, or TSOC, through which they

generally exercise their operational command, their operational authorities. These theater special

operations commands are, themselves, commanded by one or two-star special operationsadmirals or generals who work for that geographic combatant commander, supported by our

headquarters at United States Special Operations Command.

And with baseball season just over the horizon, the analogy is that these theater specialoperations commands are the catchers mitts into which United States Special Operations

Command pitches our deployed force. They then receive and employ the force on behalf of their

geographic combatant commander bosses.

So as to synchronize the United States Special Operations Command receives, reviews,

coordinates and prioritizes Department of Defense plans that support the global campaign againstterrorists and their networks. And then we make recommendations to the Joint Staff and the

Office of the Secretary of Defense regarding force and resource allocations to meet global

requirements. This is in response to the demands presented by the geographic combatant

commanders.

And then in 2008, United States Special Operations Command was further designated as

the Department of Defense proponent for security-force assistance. And proponent is anotherterm without a clear definition. The authorities of proponency are in fact conveyed in whatever

mechanism assigns one as a proponent. But SOCOMs responsibilities in this role are similar to

our responsibilities for synchronizing the planning against violent extremist networks.

We assist policymakers in deciding which potential partner nations the United States

military ought to work with, in what priority and in what manner, and then through a staffingprocess, carefully, in conjunction with United States Joint Forces Command, we receive requests

for assistance forces from geographic combatant commanders and make recommendations to the


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Joint Staff regarding which special operations forces, which general-purpose forces, or which

combination of forces are most appropriate for a particular security-force assistance mission.

This is and will continue to be a very collaborative effort, in which we advocate and

support department policies in direct coordination with our interagency partners, primarily with

State Department, but also with USAID, Treasury and Justice and many others. And security-force assistance is emerging as a more powerful term. It is becoming a more coherent path

through which our nation can better work with international friends and partners. It is bringingtogether many disparate, uncoordinated efforts under a single umbrella.

So where, generally, does the United States Special Operations Command fit into UnitedStates strategy? The most recent revision of the national defense strategy includes the need to

strengthen current alliances and build new partnerships to defeat global terrorism and prevent

attacks against us, our allies and our friends. It includes the need to prevent our enemies from

acquiring and using weapons of mass destruction. It includes the need to work with others tohelp defuse regional conflicts, and the need to transform national security institutions to face the

challenges of the 21

st

century.

The national defense strategy also describes the strategic environment for the foreseeable

future, although foreseeable future is a term that I view as oxymoronic. As a global struggle

against violent extremist ideology that seeks to overturn or overrun the international state system,it goes further, suggesting that beyond this transnational struggle, we will face other threats

including a variety of irregular challenges, quests by rogue states to acquire nuclear weapons and

the rising military powers of other nation-states.

Success in dealing with these threats will require the orchestration of national and

international power over years and decades to come and this will have to be done in an

unprecedented way. The United States Special Operation Commands piece of the defense pielies primarily in our global responsibilities to provide trained and ready special operations forces

to synchronize Department of Defense planning against violent extremist organizations and to

serve as Department of Defenses proponent for security force assistance. In order to do this, itis the responsibility of United States Special Operations Command to transcend the boundaries

of the geographic combatant commanders.

Before I get more into discussion of what SOCOM does in the current operatingenvironment, I do need to touch on what special operations activities are. There are currently 12

activities that are specifically assigned to United States Special Operations Command. Most of

them are included in the original legislation that establishes they are defined as core specialoperations activities insofar as they relate to special operations forces. This does not give

Special Operations Command ownership of any of these activity areas, but it does mean that

within each of these activity areas, there are tasks that are peculiar to special operations in natureand therefore our responsibility to prepare a force to conduct.

These 12 tasks Ill just read through them briefly they are direct action;counterterrorism; counterproliferation of weapons of mass destruction; unconventional warfare;

foreign internal defense; security force assistance; civil-military operations; psychological


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operations; information operations; counterinsurgency; special reconnaissance; and the catch-all,

other activities as may be specified by the secretary of defense or the president.

So theres a few obvious ones in there such as direct action and counterterrorism. These

are clearly bread-and-butter activities within the special operations community but theres also a

few that are more nuanced and Ill just talk about a couple of them because they and yourunderstanding of them are important to our current operations.

First is unconventional warfare. This is often misunderstood as the opposite of

conventional warfare its not. Unconventional warfare really is a doctrinally defined set of

activities that essentially is stimulating and supporting insurgents. When there is a governmentthat is considered illegitimate or hostile that is challenged by a force, then supporting that force

is unconventional warfare and this was the case in Afghanistan in the opening weeks of

Operation Enduring Freedom, where there was a relatively mature but relatively incapable force

in opposition to the illegitimate, hostile Taliban government in place at the time. That waspredominantly the Northern Alliance but it was partnered with other forces within Afghanistan

and the insertion of a relative handful of 12-man operational detachments Alpha, Green BeretA-teams then supported and stimulated that Northern Alliance force and the other anti-Talibanforces in Afghanistan in an unconventional warfare campaign that ultimately led to the Afghans

themselves evicting the Taliban from Kabul. So unconventional warfare is essentially the

flipside of counterinsurgency.

Now that there is a legitimate government in place in Afghanistan, supported by the

United States and challenged by an al-Qaida-supported Taliban insurgency, weve transitioned

from unconventional warfare to counterinsurgency as an activity in Afghanistan. Thiscounterinsurgency, as conducted by the United States, is primarily through the conduct of

foreign internal defense and security force assistance activities. So these include all actions

intended to enable Afghan sovereignty and the protection of the Afghan peoples. So one canmake the case that al-Qaida is now the unconventional warfare force, stimulating and supporting

the Taliban in its challenge against the government that they consider to be hostile to them.

The last core activity that Ill highlight here is psychological operations: again, a broadly

misunderstood term. It may stir up in certain audiences images of mind control or brainwashing.

I call it truth-telling for a purpose: the truth as a matter of law and as a matter of policy and for

the purpose of influencing a foreign audience in a manner that is helpful to mission success andgenerally and most often for mutually-beneficial purposes. It does involve the distribution of

information to serve, again, primarily mutually beneficial purposes, including those intended to

demoralize our enemies.

So thats a bit about SOCOMs roles and missions. Ill get more into that during the

question-answer period, if you want me to. Now, Ill get into how we do some of what we do.SOCOM has the responsibility to synchronize the planning to defeat violent extremist

organizations and networks. These organizations could be radical Islamic groups; they could be

narcoterrorist networks and other non-state actors who threaten the United States. TheDepartment of Defense campaign strategy against terrorism is contained in Concept Plan 7500.

This is 750 pages long. Its top secret in classification but in a brief and unclassified manner I


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can tell you that it is the Department of Defense plan, crafted by the United States Special

Operations Command, first approved by Secretary Rumsfeld and then by Secretary Gates so itbecame the Department of Defense CONPLAN. It has authority within the Department of

Defense. It is a guiding plan as it affects other combatant commanders and the military services

but it is the supporting plan in the interagency environment for combating violent extremist

organizations and it is supported by regional plans crafted by each of the geographic combatantcommanders around the world. It does provide the framework for two fundamental approaches

to defeat our adversaries.

We call them the direct approach and the indirect approach. These are terms that are

making their way into the common lexicon. Although the direct approach focuses on isolatingthe enemy threats and then taking military actions against them, the indirect approach focuses on

shaping and influencing the environment to eliminate local support to or tolerance of terrorists

and their activities. So these approaches are independent they cannot be isolated from each

other. They are certainly not mutually exclusive and both are necessary to form the balancedwhole.

The direct approach, as you would suspect, consists of those efforts to directly disruptviolent extremist organizations. This is capturing, killing, interdicting and otherwise destroying

terrorists, their facilities, their organizations and their networks in order to prevent them from

harming us in the near term. It also denies access to and use of weapons of mass destruction byviolent extremist organizations, some of whom have clearly expressed their intent to acquire and

use them against us. These operations are conducted almost exclusively by military forces

DOD is in the lead for the United States on the direct approach.

Its urgent; its necessary; its chaotic; its kinetic and the effects are almost always near-

term and short-lived. While the direct approach is required to mitigate immediate threats, the

overall effects of the direct approach are not decisive. The direct approach is a holding actionthat buys time and space for the indirect approach to achieve its long-term results.

Decisive results come from the indirect approach, in which we enable partners to combatviolent extremist organizations by contributing to their capabilities through advising, training,

equipping or otherwise supporting their efforts. It includes efforts to increase other

governments willingness or improve their capabilities to remove terrorist sanctuaries from their

territories; it includes military support to activities intended to erode the underlying causes, theunderlying factors that contribute to terrorist activity in the first place: the basic conditions of

economic depression, religious extremism, intimidation and more. Though stabilizing the

environment impacts the enemy in the long term, it is the concept of draining the swamp ratherthan attempting to capture or kill all the alligators.

So although the direct and indirect approaches are fairly easy to define in theory, they areoften difficult to distinguish in practice. It is a careful balance that is required and often an

intertwining. People, units and capabilities cannot be categorized as either direct or indirect.

Some of the activities that they conduct can be categorized as direct or indirect, but only at thetime that those activities are occurring and often they occur simultaneously.


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The military is in the lead on the direct approach, as I said, and on the indirect approach,

the United States military is, to a large degree, pushing from behind. Its not our responsibilityto lead the indirect approach but admittedly, much of the capability, at least in the United States

government, to conduct these kinds of activities, the mass and the money reside within the

Department of Defense. Theres a balance between the two that, again, has to be carefully

executed and this is where you will find the core of special operations: in the balance ofeffective direct and indirect operations the combination of high-end, high technology-enabled

tactical skills and the understanding of the operational context of their application.

A good example of this is what occurs on most days in both Iraq and Afghanistan:

training with the Afghan national army, Afghan national police, Afghan army commandos, theIraqi special operations forces at a very high level training, eating, living, planning, fighting

with them. When the counterpart forces fight with us in support, it looks like the direct

approach. They look like us; they move like us; they shoot like us. Through night-vision video,

its difficult to tell them apart from us. It looks very much like the direct approach when theyburst into a room in the middle of the night to put the habeas grabus on the bad guys, separate the

good from the bad.

The ultimate effect of this, ultimately, though, is enabling partners to combat violent

extremist organizations themselves so that we can leave and they can control their own destiny.

That intertwining happens several times a night in several places across Iraq and Afghanistan. Itconsumes most of our special operations force that we provide on any given day, whether its in

Baghdad or Anbar or Marja or Farah.

Another example from Afghanistan comes from Special Forces teams living in remotecamps, well apart from any other military force. Their purpose is to understand the local

environment, steep themselves in it and contribute to local security by identifying and supporting

the tribal and village leaders who are willing to take action against the Taliban. Support in thiscase comes mostly in the form of schools, wells, bridges and other development projects as

rewards for anti-Taliban activities in these villages. As you can imagine, this is very sensitive.

Its quite dangerous and its being done every day by special operations troops in their 20s and30s.

Our nations special operations forces are also at work applying the indirect approach

elsewhere around the world. We are typically in 75 to 80 countries on any given day, mostlyconducting unit-to-unit engagements and training events. These operations involve the special

forces A-team, a SEAL platoon, a Marine special operations team, Air Force combat aviation

advisors, often working in remote places with a relative handful of counterparts and for many ofthe partner nation units, this is the most prestigious training that they will get all year and it leads

to some very important relationships.

We do many civil affairs operations, during which our forces work with local leaders and

USAID whenever and wherever possible to determine which schools need to be painted and

where wells ought to be dug or what else will bring value to our presence. We normally contractwith local people to do the work so everybody wins.


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extremism and significant migration are driving much of the way the world behaves and these

have become dominant global factors.

The internal controls of nation-states have eroded and sovereignty aint what it used to

be. Territorial sovereignty can still be defined and defended to a great degree but economic

sovereignty, informational sovereignty and cultural sovereignty are under continuous challenge.In areas where governments are not able to wield great influence over their people or support

their basic needs, non-state alternatives are likely to emerge. Individuals may identify less withthe state and in some cases, return to historical and enduring affinities of tribal alliances, natural

terrain boundaries and familiar cultural norms. They may accept substitute governments that

provide structure and process within tolerable limits and the legitimate government then becomesless relevant in these places and the non-state actor then gains local dominance. This is generally

a destabilizing factor where it occurs and it is an opportunity for crime and extremism to take

root.

United States Special Operations Command deliberately leans forward to ensure that

proper resources and tools are being applied in these regions. We call it moving ahead of thesound of guns. As proud as we are of our ability to respond quickly to gunfire when it occurs,we are at least as proud of our ability to move ahead of the sound of guns in order to prevent that

sound ultimately from occurring in places that are at risk. Again, last week, United States

Special Operations Command forces were present in 79 countries around the world, to the tuneof about 12,000 people.

Not surprisingly, about 10,000 86 percent of special operations forces deployed from

the United States were deployed into the U.S. Central Command area of responsibilities thatswhere the most urgent demand is. But while we were deployed to dozens of countries around the

world, we were in direct combat in only two of them: Iraq and Afghanistan. We were at risk in

perhaps a half a dozen others.

So who actually does this? Ill talk about that for just a minute. Special operations forces

now total over 58,000 people. About 52,000 of them are in uniform and except for a couple ofthousand at USSOCOM headquarters, the force resides primarily within four service

components: U.S. Army Special Operations Command, Navy Special Warfare Command, Air

Force Special Operations Command and Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command and

in one subunified joint command, the Joint Special Operations Command.

Slightly more than half of the total force is in the Army component and the total force

includes many of the forces that you would expect and are aware of. The Army Special Forcesare the Green Berets, Army Rangers and the 75th Ranger Regiment, helicopter air crews, rotary-

wing aviators in the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment the Night Stalkers.

Its active-duty civil affairs and active-duty psychological operations practitioners are

under the command of Special Operations Command when they are in the United States: Air

Force fixed-wing air crews, largely flying the variance of the venerable C-160 Hercules platformbut getting more and more into smaller platforms, including the tilt-rotor CV-22, the Special

Operations variant of the Osprey, air traffic controllers who can operate independently in remote


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areas, pararescue medics in the Air Force, Navy SEALs, combatant-craft crewmen and many

submarine operators and Marine Corps raid-and-assault forces and foreign training specialistsand then all of the vehicles and airplanes and helicopters and boats and logistics support and

intelligence experts and administrative specialists and technicians and instructors and strategists

who support that force are within the United States Special Operations Command.

Theres a plethora of other disciplines that give the force its capability and its

sustainability. About four-fifths of our force is active duty with about one-fifth in the Guard orReserves. This is a significant shift from five years ago: We were about one-third in the

Reserve component as opposed to the one-fifth that we are now. About two-thirds of our force is

non-career special operations forces, meaning that they serve in the special operationscommunity for an assignment or two over the course of their careers. About one-third is the SOF

careerists those who volunteer are selected, who go through a training program that typically

has an attrition rate associated with it and then who earn a MOS a military occupational

specialty that assigns them to the special operations forces for most of their careers.

Our operators average close to 30 years old. This is significantly older than general-purpose force units. They are about 70 percent married and they are doing what it is they camein to do. About half of our force has come in since 9/11 and they are doing what they expected

to do. At the heart of everything United States Special Operation Command does is the special

operations warrior. These are real people who go forth and conduct the difficult and dangerousmissions that this nation asks them to do to solve the complex problems, to endure the challenges

that make our strategies work. The complexity of the operating environment requires that

special operations forces be of the highest quality, that they maintain the highest levels of war-

fighting expertise but also that they understand where they are: that they have knowledge of theregional, the subregional, micro-regional environments in which they work.

Too often, special operations are thought of as unilateral, high-risk, one-shot deals.There are many times, of course, when that is the case. But whats truly special about special

operations is the ability to work with and through others in pursuit of mutually beneficial

outcomes to unusually complex situations. And fundamental to this effort is our recognition thathumans are more important than hardware and that quality is more important than quantity. In

special operations forces, we believe that substance trumps theatrics, that knowledge trumps

doctrine, that finesse trumps mess and that presence without value is perceived as occupation.

It is important to be able to accurately predict the effects of our behavior in the

unchanging context of geography, culture and history of the places we go. To do this requires an

understanding that we simply dont have. And we in the special operations forces do prideourselves on being somewhat more qualified with respect to languages and cultures and regional

expertise than the broader military forces. But we remain underqualified in many key languages

and dialects and undereducated in many key areas.

We continue to expand these programs. We continually stress the need for a few

individuals to be thoroughly steeped in other languages and other regions. We have collectivelytermed these projects and programs Project Lawrence, inspired, of course, by T.E. Lawrence of


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Arabia, who is an imperfect model but one who does convey a sense of the value of local

expertise.

This is intended to produce individual regional expertise in a way that simply doesnt

exist now so that we can gain and sustain a credible persistent approach in these regions. These

initiatives include an exploration of innovative options to permit specialization withoutsacrificing promotion opportunities or retention. And this is a cultural challenge within our own

military.

And as important as retention is to maintaining our investment in people, recruitment is

equally important. We do seek the right people for the right jobs. We hire the best people wecan for the jobs that we assign them to do.

One example of this is an initiative currently primarily within the Army. It was

stimulated by a request by Special Operations Command. It was supported strongly by thesecretary of the Army. It was approved by the secretary of defense in November of 2008 and it

was implemented just over a year ago in February 2009. This is an initiative known as MAVNI,Military Accessions Vital to the National Interest. And under this program visa holders notcitizens, not green card holders but visa holders who are in the United States for a period of

two years are eligible to enlist in the United States Army.

There is a vibrant blog on this. A number of visa holders in the United States are

communicating with each other about the advantages and disadvantages of enlisting in the

United States military. But the response has been tremendous. And 14,000 people have filled

out the form that indicates an interest in enlisting in the Army; 4,000 of these indicated aninterest in serving in or in support of Special Operations forces. Over 800 have now enlisted in

the United States Army. A hundred and 72 are under orders to the Special Operations

community; 81 have already reported for duty.

All of them speak English as a second or third or fourth language. Eighty-two percent of

them have at least an associates degree. One-third of the masters degrees that enlisted into theUnited States Army last year enlisted through the MAVNI program.

So if I sound excited about this, I am. It is one that we continue to support and consider

ourselves primary to be of primary benefit to us.

We do recognize that nonmilitary and nongovernment sectors of American society as

well contain specific areas of expertise that are essential to progress in the military campaigns inthis new normal. From anthropologists to X-ray technicians, we do have to embrace disciplines

and knowledge outside of traditional military fields. We need to find ways to bring this into our

world.

The concepts behind balancing direct and indirect approaches and what amounts to or

what some describe as a global counterinsurgency effort are not new to how we conductirregular warfare in many ways. The Cold War was the aberration. And this is back to more


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traditional forms of warfare. Ill quote: Pure military skill is not enough. A full spectrum of

military, paramilitary and civil action must be blended to produce success.

The enemy uses economic and political warfare, propaganda and naked military

aggression in an endless combination to oppose a free choice of government and suppress the

rights of the individual by terror, by subversion and by force of arms.

To win this struggle, our officers and men must understand and combine the political,economic and civil actions with skilled military efforts in the execution of this mission.

Im quoting President John F. Kennedy in his forward to a 1962 United States Armymanual on special warfare, special warfare being the community that ultimately evolved into the

joint special operations community that I now serve.

Pure military skill will not be enough. While the ability to conduct high-end, direct-action activities will always remain urgent and necessary. On the highest end, most technology-

enabled man-hunting and thing-hunting operations are conducted by special operations forces.We acknowledge that it is the indirect actions that will have the most decisive and enduring theeffects. The balance and intertwining of direct and indirect are key.

And so now Ill quote Sun Tzu: There are not more than five primary colors: blue,yellow, red, white and black. Yet in combination they produce more hues than can ever be seen.

There are not more than five cardinal tastes: sour, acrid, salt, sweet and bitter. Yet combinations

of them yield more flavors than can ever be tasted.

In battle there are not more than two methods of attack: the direct and the indirect. Yet

these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers. The direct and indirect

lead unto each other in turn. It is like moving in a circle: You never come to an end. Who canexhaust the possibilities of their combination?

And that is the business and the beauty of special operations forces. I am ready for yourquestions. I will say upfront that I wont provide any meaningful detail on specific operations

that are being conducted under a geographic combatant commanders authority, but I am happy

to talk about just about anything else you would like to address. Thank you very much.

(Applause.)

MR. NELSON: Well, thank you, Admiral, for those very, very insightful comments.

And when you hear that encapsulated in such a form, it just reminds us of the range of areas oflocations and the range of missions that the special operations community is involved in on a

daily basis; its absolutely remarkable. And, of course, those of us that follow the community

know under your leadership has been instrumental in trying to get the force ahead of the soundsof gunfire. So we appreciate your vision in that area.

With that, well go ahead and get right to questions. So if you could, please raise yourhand and one of our individuals will get you. Well start over here with the microphone. Please

state your name and where youre from and then, again, please ask a concise question.


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Q: Admiral, Julian Barnes with the L.A. Times. Why the special operations forces inAfghanistan were recently put under the direct control of Gen. McChrystal and the regional

commanders in ISAF. And what did you think of that move? And why was that an important

move to make?

ADM. OLSON: This has been our consideration for a long period of time. In fact, Gen.

McChrystal and I spoke about that before he deployed a year ago. As long as we are holdingGen. McChrystal primarily responsible and accountable for the outcome in Afghanistan, we

ought to provide him all of the tools and authority that he needs to carry out his very difficult

mission.

I am in favor of unity of command and unity of effort as military concepts. I support the

shift of operational control of the special operations forces that were shifted to Gen.

McChrystals operational control. This was not by itself much of a change. He already had inour terminology tactical control over the force. He was already the commander who was

approving the concepts of operations for the employment of special operations forces in thatenvironment.

But he gained an additional measure of authority to re-mission the force and re-locate the

force by gaining operational control of it. And if hes got a nationwide fight to undertake Icertainly support his certainly respect that role.

MR. NELSON: The next question in the back, in the gray, Admiral?

Q: Good morning, Admiral. Your force has been engaged in very high OPTEMPO

operations for almost nine years. What is the state of readiness? What is the state of morale,

sustainability attrition and so forth? And what are your concerns with regard to the long-termsustainability of the U.S. Special Operations force.

ADM. OLSON: Yeah, thanks, Kevin. I used to work for Adm. Green and Im notsurprised that your question is about the people. So thanks for asking it. The force is really in

pretty good shape. It has proven more resilient than we had anticipated. In fact I think that they

are personally rewarded by what they see to be the benefits, the outcome of the work that they

are doing. Their families are proving to be quite supportive. There is not enough you know,we cannot do enough to support them but I think for now, by the normal metrics that we use, the

force is in pretty good shape.

Our retention rate is higher than it has ever been; recruiting is pretty good; we are

growing our Special Forces and our SEALs and our Marine Corps special operations teams and

our Air Force aviators all at an unprecedented rate. I am quite careful to state that our ability toabsorb growth is limited to the 3 to 5 percent range because of our internal structures and our

need to not lose our soul in the process of growth.


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But, given that rate, we can absorb the growth and apply it in the correct ways on the

battlefield. Still, Im not one who believes that we can keep doing what were doing indefinitely,but were not seeing signs of breakage in the force yet. Thank you.

MR. NELSON: Adm. Green, thank you for that question. With the blue suit right in

front there. Yeah.

Q: Hi, Admiral. Justin Fishel with FOX News. Ive got to warn you both: Myquestions are about the CENTCOM region. As you know, the goal is to get to 50,000 troops in

Iraq by the end of August. Are we on pace for that drawdown? And how seriously are the

special operations forces there preparing for a possible resurgence in violence at the conclusionof this election process? In Kandahar lots of emphasis is being put on shaping the operations.

Tell us what role the special ops are playing in shaping?

ADM. OLSON: Your first question is clearly one for the CENTCOM commanderregarding the drawdown in Iraq. What Ill tell you is that the special operations forces are not

experiencing a drawdown in Iraq. All indications including my conversations with Gen.Petraeus and Gen. Odierno is that the special operations forces will be sustained at about theircurrent level. And so supporting them will become is a continued mission of the rest of the

force.

Shaping operations involve a wide variety of activities. I dont think I have anything

unique to share on that. Special operations roles are, as I described earlier, we generally are

working in small units in more remote places getting a sense for the context of the places that

were working so that our behavior there will have more predictable effects.

We are very closely partnered with Afghan forces. The way that special operations

partners is with the Afghan commandos is an assigned team will train with the Afghancommandos in a schoolhouse environment, go to the range with them, go through a final exercise

with them, graduate them and then move out to their assigned operational areas with them in

order to sustain that partnership in a very meaningful way. So virtually 100 percent of specialoperations activities are in support of Afghan partners. And thats a slightly different flavor of

the way that special operations does its shaping activities.

MR. NELSON: Lets go try this side of the room. And no cheating; one question percustomer. Lets go with the brown suit right here in the front.

Q: Hi, Tim Davidson (sp). Could you just briefly discuss your highest-prioritytechnology needs for the command?

ADM. OLSON: Yeah, thanks, Tim. (Laughter.) We have many. But there are twoflavors of special operations activities. There is the high-tech enabled man-hunting/thing-

hunting flavor of special operations. And so finding things, finding people is very important, the

technologies associated with finding and tracking with precision.


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So that includes a full range of whats generally known as ISR: intelligence,

surveillance, reconnaissance capabilities. I dont mean just unmanned airborne platforms. Thisis a wide variety of manned/unmanned, airborne/maritime, ground/human censors associated

with all of that discipline.

So thats a very important technology for us. And another important technology for us isfor us to be able to they are technologies that allow us to be fully interoperable with partners

around the world. So this is more this is less technology development than technologyawareness and technology sharing. But it is a very important need for us. Sometimes we will

pursue what doesnt appear to be the most advanced technology, but its the most useful

technology in the environments in which we work.

MR. NELSON: Okay, great. In the back in the black the woman with the black shirt?

Q: Anne Flaherty with the Associated Press. Dont ask, dont tell is a hot topic rightnow. The Pentagon is looking at it. Im wondering if you can talk about any specific concerns

that will have to be addressed among special forces if that ban is lifted and also if you have apersonal opinion that you could express. (Laughter.)

ADM. OLSON: All right. Next question? No (laughter).

I dont think there are any special concerns with special operations forces. Everybody

who comes into special operations forces has already served in one manner or another in the

Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine Corps. And we accept those people and follow the laws and

policies regarding all military people and monitor the management of people by authority.

I dont manage the people themselves; the services do that. So Id say there is no

particular issue with respect to special operations forces.

MR. NELSON: We have a question in the middle of the room, the gentleman right here

in the brown green shirt.

Q: Hi. Tony Capaccio with Bloomberg News. One of the corollaries you never talk

about is this counterproliferation of weapons of mass destruction. The 2006 QDR called for a

greater capability for SOF to detect, locate and render safe WMD. What capabilities have yougrown since then to meet that mandate and are they directed primarily against al-Qaida-type

organizations or state actors like Iran and North Korea.

ADM. OLSON: The special operations niche, if you will, of counterproliferation of

weapons of mass destruction obviously gets into some very sensitive areas. But what I can say

here is that, generally, our business in counterproliferation has to do with locating andinterdicting the movement of weapons, devices, precursors, chemicals and other contributors to a

WMD capability.


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It also includes, to a degree, the ability to handle, to render safe those things that are

interdicted. So that is what we do and weve grown in both capability and capacity somewhatsince the last QDR in those areas.

MR. NELSON: Okay, last question. Well go ahead and go to the gentleman in the back

with the blue jacket.

Q: Admiral, its Mike Levins (sp) from the Times of London. How confident are youabout the relationship that your guys have with the special forces from other NATO countries

not just thinking of Britain, but other ones too?

ADM. OLSON: Yeah, its there are a few military concepts that seem to be catching

on around the world. One of them is jointness and another one is special operations. And of

course we embody both. Our relationships with other nations are quite good. I was just the

day before yesterday at the Pacific area special operations conference, which had 19 specialoperations 19 countries represented in their special operations community.

We hosted a conference in Tampa a couple of years ago and had 82 nations show up.The dialogue is robust. We are finding a lot of common ground. There is an emergence in, oh, a

dozen or so countries around the world of a Special Operations Command counterpart of some

sort.

What were seeing specifically thats playing out now is a transition of the NATO special

operations coordination center into a NATO special operations headquarters. This is in fact an

operational command within the NATO construct that will, in an unprecedented way, bringtogether training and technologies within the NATO special operations environment. My view

of all this is quite optimistic. I think were pretty good shape internationally with special

operations forces.

MR. NELSON: Okay, well, everyone if you could remain seated while the admiral and

his party depart. But, Admiral, its an honor and a privilege to have you here. Thank you foryour candid remarks. If wed give you a round of applause, itd be great. (Applause.)

ADM. OLSON: Thank you.

MR. NELSON: So if the panelists could join us up here.

(Off-side conversation.)

MR. NELSON: Okay, if everybody could please get back return to your seats and

well get the second half started and well get you out of here on time at 11:00. Thank you.



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MICHELE MALVESTI: Hi, good morning. Im Michele Malvesti. Id like to just point

out, you know, three key challenges for SOF. In many ways, as we can certainly glean from the

admirals statements, SOF really have been experiencing their most extensive and transformativeuse in the modern era over the past nine years. SOF really are enjoying a well-earned

renaissance period. But they need to seize this moment. And they need to seize this moment tofacilitate their continued development and evolution as well as to help fulfill their value to the

nation.

I think theyre facing three key challenges that Id like to point out today some of them

are external, some of them are internal. First, the first challenge SOF have become persistent

war fighters operating across the globe. But the national security apparatus broadly continues to

struggle with how best to apply force in general and SOF, specifically, outside theaters ofcombat. I think SOFs core qualities and mission areas, many of which we heard Adm. Olson

discuss, provide policymakers strategic flexibility in destructing but more importantly, inpreventing threats and challenges that flow from todays geostrategic landscape.

SOF really face obstacles to expanding their global access and presence in support of

national security and foreign policy objectives. There are many impediments which we could gointo. Let me just highlight one. One area is that many policymakers at all levels of government

lack an understanding of the full range of SOF capabilities. I think for many individuals at the

senior policymaking level, they tend to equate special operations with what the admiral

described, perhaps, as the direct approach almost exclusively with, kind of, the snatch-and-grabmissions, efforts to rescue hostages, takedowns, other kinetic-type operations.

And they tend to remain unaware of the SOF warrior-diplomat role or that indirectapproach that the admiral is talking about and the unique, culturally attuned capabilities that

special operations forces bring to bear, particularly in working with relevant populations. And

this really is a missed opportunity not just for SOF, not just for policymakers but quite franklyfor the nation in confronting key national security challenges. And so common the SOF senior

leadership really must better equip policymakers with knowledge of how their engagement skills

work and how they can be better leveraged in support of a full range of foreign policy

challenges.

The second key challenge Id like to highlight with regard to special operations is that

SOF have experienced significant growth since 9/11, essentially over the past decade. We heardthe admiral talk a little bit about that. And this growth Ive defined in five different ways. Its in

budget. Its in manpower. Its in their overall capacity by virtue of their expanded force

structure. Its also in their volume of work and its also in their level of achievement. And Ithink growth is in many ways very positive but growth can also come at a cost. And there are

potential downsides to any growth. And I think that the SOCOM, the senior leadership must

continue to manage and guard against any potential downsides with respect to this growth.


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This could include, speaking about the volume of work, it could include greater demands

on SOF that could take a toll on SOFs unconventional thinking, their innovative mindset which really are hallmarks of special operations or anything that potentially diverts them from

maintaining readiness for those missions that only special operations can conduct. One of the

points on the evolution I do just want to point out because it relates particularly to what the

admiral spoke about where SOF, I think, you know, still continue to retain a lot of innovationand imagination in their mindset is really looking at the individual as the unit of action and I

think that this is a key discriminator for special operations.

I think it will continue to discriminate them and help SOF to be able to go where others

cannot go and do what others cannot do in places where military mass and might and brawnreally do not lend themselves but SOFs skills in that individual as the unit of action really is

very appropriate.

And the third challenge Id like to point out we heard the admiral talk about the list of12 core activities as they relate to special operations. I think SOCOM and the senior leadership,

when they continue to think through and define what the core mission areas are for SOF, theyneed to think through them in ways that will fully maximize all units, all commands and all skillsets within the special operations community.

I think there has been a tendency to equate, for example, counterterrorism with directaction. And I think that in a pre-9/11 world, in our pre-9/11 concepts of combating terrorism,

that may have been much more appropriate or applicable tended to think of counterterrorism

for special operations in a much more, reactive, high-end role of resolving particular incidents,

particular crises hijackings, hostage takings.

But combating terrorism in a post-9/11 world is really much more expansive. In SOF,

the community itself as well as their key advocates should guard against viewingcounterterrorism in a way that privileges only direct action as the embodiment of

counterterrorism operations because when you do that, you thereby exclude other key activities,

such as foreign internal defense, such as civil affairs operations, such as information ops andPSYOPS that really are critical to one of the nations foremost national security challenges.

And if those activities, if FID, if Civil Affairs, if PSYOP are not viewed equally integral

to counterterrorism as direct action is, for example, then they are likely to be further deprived ofresources, given only perfunctory attention or not performed or employed to maximum effect.

And so those are just three, you know, key challenges for SOF, I think, the SOFcommunity really is in a well earned renaissance period. But I think that they need to continue to

look to the future and how they can continue to evolve as a unified force. Thank you.

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Thank you, Michele for saving me from my embarrassment and

MS. MALVESTI: No


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MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: appearing to at least answer part of my question. (Laughter.)

And Kenneth, please.

KENNETH RAPUANO: Hi, Im Ken Rapuano. This is a very rich area so Im going to

try to restrain my remarks to a couple of key observations. I think that Adm. Olson really put his

finger on one of the biggest challenges that is facing both the special operations community andthe broader U.S. government community writ large when it comes to our operations in theater

and looking into the future and thats really balancing these critical values between the primarymissions of the SOF community.

One, the more kinetic, essentially, getting those most dangerous alligators in the swampto facilitate our ability to go out and drain the swamp. Its very intuitive and people accept it and

are very in favor of it but in the doing is very complex, difficult challenge. The SOF has to take,

really, what is the fundamental premise of SOF, which is getting the right people, in the right

places to do the right jobs. What a lot of people in the military community call high-value, low-density assets that we simply cant afford to spread throughout the entire conventional military

system.

So we developed the special capabilities, as well as a very integrated approach to

applying them within a special operations community. Very distinctly different missions that

being the direct and indirect mission yet they are intertwined in a very fundamental way. Andits navigating that exchange and balance that is proving to be, I think, very, very challenging.

We started out with the fairly highly kinetic-centric approach to our operations in both Iraq and

Afghanistan. Weve transitioned to much more of an emphasis on counterinsurgency warfare.

But by the same token, these direct action capabilities are still essential to what were

doing not only in theater, but to prevent threats from manifesting in the United States as well.

So I would address, essentially, two subcomponents of them. One would be the technologypiece weve seen a phenomenal evolution of capability when it comes to ISR, intelligence

surveillance applications.

So we have now full-motion video, weve got a whole variety, growing variety of assets

to provide us pictures and understanding of whats going on at least visually and we are looking

to now mate that with the human features. And, you know, theres a Moores law challenge in

the sense of our capability to collect information is dramatically outstripping our capacity toanalyze and apply it. And thats something thats facing the broader military community and the

special operations community as well.

So how do you ensure that those pictures that youre streaming from a Predator and other

assets are informed by the specific knowledge of that ODA team thats operating in that area and

understands the personalities and the activities? That would be one issue. And I think that thereare both technological and human approaches to addressing that. The other is, perhaps, a little

bit more controversial, but I think its still fundamental to the effectiveness of both sides of the

coin.


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And thats the interrogation and the exploitation, the human intelligence piece of what

has most been associated with our direct mission, which is the F3AE cycle. If many of youarent familiar with that, thats the find, fix, finish, exploit, analyze. And thats a process that

was really pioneered by the special operations community, in terms of unifying all those

elements of intelligence human, material exploitation and then follow up action into a single

operating authority, so you are able to rapidly capitalize on information associated with terroristnetworks, roll them up and then continue the cycle.

What weve seen, for many reasons that I think obvious to this audience, are very, very

serious restrictions on our ability to exploit human intelligence. And youve seen a coincident

reduction of capture operations and a commensurate, significant increase in kill operations. Soon the one hand, thats very satisfying for many people. On the other hand, we are losing

capability, both within the military operational community and the broader intelligence

community, to better understand the networks, their plans and capabilities.

That would be this would be an issue that many would say is just outside the pay grade

of SOCOM and the military, and in fact, that is the case. But its an area to be sensitive to andbe educated on. The pendulum has swung, based on the lack of training and oversight thatresulted in abuses like Abu Ghraib, to a situation now where there are such tight restrictions on

detainee operations and interrogation operations that many in the military community, as well as

the intelligence community, feel that weve dramatically undermined our capability to getvisibility into the intentions and operations of the adversary. So with that, Ill leave it at that and

we can follow up on the discussion.

MR. MIKLASZWESKI: Ozzie?

MR. NELSON: Great, thank you. Im going to bucket mine similar to what Michele did,

too. In baseball, batting third is kind of prestigious. In think-tank world, I get to fill all the gapsthat were not already talked about. So my comments will be slightly shorter and Im going to

look towards the future of SOF here, as well. I mean, its important to obviously talk about the

ongoing operations, but theres really an opportunity, as Michele said, for the force to kind ofredefine itself and set itself up for future success. And I broke those categories down into three:

strategic integration, operational transition and management of the force.

On the operational transition, for SOF really to take advantage of this position its innow, where it has a lot of clout and has been very, very effective, it needs to take the next step in

how its going to operate outside of the Title 10 battle areas. And thats going to require some

very difficult questions to be asked and some assumptions to be challenged. The U.S.government, for better or for worse, executes geographically and SOCOM is a functional

command. And so, when were executing geographically, as much as that may or may not be a

good way to operate in todays transnational world, filled with transnational threats, itssomething that they have to deal with.

So all of the departments and agencies, clearly, are going to execute geographically. AndSOCOM has to figure out a better way the special operations forces have to figure out a better

way to leverage that construct. Some of the ways this is going to happen, and that they can


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tasks come to bear, or need to be done, they need to be successful. And they need to focus on

that.

And then also with their growth, a lot of the SOF growth has not been in operators. It has

been in support forces and in enablers and in the civilian personnel. And I think that theres

going to be a need for them to develop a career path for individuals that are SOF enablers, SOFsupporters. Its going to have to happen. And I also think along the lines of civilian career

opportunities, theres not a civilian career path for those that are involved in the SOFcommunities. And those individuals are going to become even more important in the future.

And then, lastly, Michele talked about this a lot the strategic integration. I think shesabsolutely right about SOF not being appropriately integrated into the national decision-making

process. I think they have a unique position, again, because they can take tactical actions that

have strategic effects. So I wont go into any more of that. But I also think there needs to be

some changes, or some considerations to the train-and-equip mission. Clearly, SOF is the SOCOM is the only entity that has a train-and-equip function but doesnt have a standing service

to support it, or for oversight. Im not recommending that that should take place.

I do think that an assistant secretary in OSD is probably not the level of support that they

need to ensure that SOF is properly integrated into national security decision-making and that

something we may want to consider is elevating the status of that billet. But Ill go ahead andleave it short and turn it back over to Jim. And we can get into some questions.

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Okay, please, as before, if you could identify yourself. And

please Ive been asked to say this please state your question in the form of a question and notsome kind of personal mission statement. If you would, please. So any questions? Yes, maam.

Q: Sharon Pickup, GAO. I was interested to hear, Michele, your comment aboutpolicymakers and, you know, their level of understanding and knowledge of SOF and SOF

capabilities. Because I would have thought that, maybe not the opposite, but maybe not quite as

what you said, given the operational experience.

Because, as you know, when you have an ongoing operation for almost a decade, theres

a lot more interaction with the capabilities, particularly at the policymakers level. So Im just

curious if you could expand on your comments because I would have thought that you wouldhave said that there would have been a greater understanding, given the fact that were in a

decade, now, almost, of ongoing operations where SOF had been heavily involved.

MS. MALVESTI: Sure. I think my comments and I apologize if I was not as nuanced

as I should have been were geared more towards the indirect side of the house, to use Adm.

Olsons terminology. And Im talking at the very senior levels. I think policymakers a lot ofindividuals serving in country teams, whove had the opportunity to work with civil affairs, who

are working in countries with the embassies, the military information support teams, the MISTs

but not all policymakers.


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MR. NELSON: Its how theyre operating in their company in those countries. Im

arguing for a more persistent presence in those countries, a more established presence.Something thats not based a lot of those relations and those operations and those countries are

based on mil-to-mil exercises that are scheduled and thats the extent of it, in many cases. What

Im suggesting is if you want to have the culture of expertise, if you want to develop the

relationships, its going to require a long-term presence in those embassies. So thats what I wastrying to capture there.

Q: Thanks.

MR. RAPUANO: And I dont mean to embarrass you, Kim, but for those of you whoknow Kimberly Dozier as CBS correspondent, she has just recently taken a new position in terms

of the chief intelligence correspondent for Associated Press.

Q: Thank you. Last Thursday

MR. RAPUANO: Congratulations.

Q: Thank you very much. And so Ill ask an intel question. Maj. Gen. Flynn, Mike

Flynn, recently came out with a controversial report published by CNS, which also published

Micheles recent report. And he talked about how he needed to shake up the way the militarygathered intelligence in Afghanistan because it had been too CT, direct-action oriented. Gets

you the background on all the Taliban and al-Qaida activists throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan,

such as they could reach there and that he needed more COIN-centric information. He wanted

to know the price of fuel in the marketplace.

Now, hes gotten a lot of grousing from operators since then, saying, well, you know, that

was the mission then. Dont criticize us because the mission has changed and thats what wewere doing. Theres also a question of, well, if you switch all your resources to getting the kind

of information hes asking for, where do you get the intel to get OBL? So where do you all

come down on that?

MR. RAPUANO: I would say that that really gets to the heart of the tension, not only in

terms of the roles and responsibility when it comes to all the different functional areas of

intelligence, but whos doing what to whom, within not only the U.S. military, between whiteSOF, black SOF, conventional forces, but then NATO and ISAF. Theres a lot of collection

apparatus out there and you need to think about where do you apply what level of asset to collect

what type of intelligence or information? You know, that may not be the area where youregetting the most return on investment from very unique and specialized assets, but whats the

collection plan?

And I think thats something that Gen. Flynn has been working on, in terms of better

integrating collection amongst all these disparate units, in a more collaborative fashion. Because

there are only so many resources and then, once you collect that, where is it fused? How is itanalyzed and disseminated? Theyre challenges that theyre dealing with. So I would argue that

hes making a very important point. It is important information to support the longer-term COIN


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operations, but it shouldnt it cant be done, or shouldnt be done at the expense, in my view, of

intel and information supporting more direct action for more imminent threats. So its a questionof governance and a question of integration and coordination.

Q: I would follow up, isnt that was the fusion centers were supposed to be all about? So

why create a parallel system?

MR. RAPUANO: Are you talking about the targeting fusion centers? Which fusioncenters a very popular concept today and

Q: Thats what operators on the ground say to me, that we have the fusion centers.Thats where we join; thats where were gathering and sharing all this intel already. Why does

Flynn want to create a parallel universe of intel outside of the fusion centers? Why not just add

in?

MR. RAPUANO: Well, my experience may be a little dated at this point. I did an

active-duty tour serving Gen. McChrystal and working with Gen. Flynn from the end of 06 into07. In fact, that was one of my responsibilities was setting up the targeting fusion centers,which was about fusing intelligence collection amongst all these various elements in the field.

But the focus was on the HVT mission there.

Now, again, this was prior to Gen. McChrystal coming on board as the commander and

the increased emphasis on COIN, but then it does get to a capacity question. If youre

combining both the HVT mission with the broader COIN mission in terms of collection, youve

dramatically expanded your requirement and then you need to think through. Are those fusioncenters the appropriate locus for that collection, or are you going to do it in another fashion?

Q: Excuse me, if I could, Id like to go back to my original question. Weve heard fromAdm. Olson talking about persistence. You, Ozzie, mentioned persistence. You, Michele, are

talking about a renaissance and all the additional requirements. And were looking at a growing

threat in terms of asymmetrical warfare. Well, first of all, my experience is we just dont haveenough of these guys. Ive watched them work in Iraq, Afghanistan and Colombia and Im just

wondering, can any administration this one in particular, right now pony up the kind of

commitment and cash necessary to grow special operations? Is that possible in the near-time

future and whats going to be required?

MS. MALVESTI: I think, again, growth is good. But always, again, growth to do what?

And if you currently have 86 percent of the force in CENTCOM in direct support of you know,primarily within two declared theatres of combat the limited numbers and percentage of SOF

who are operating across the world is very restricted. You know, I think the admiral has said 74

countries around the world. Part of this, though, is not having the persistent presence andengagement.

Again, I dont think that its not necessarily unique to SOF. I think the military as awhole has yet to think through how best to incentivize a career path that keeps individuals in

countries long enough to sustain long-term partnerships, relationships beyond just TDYing


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individuals. I dont think SOF needs more temporary presence. I think they need more

persistent presence, you know, across the globe.

But you do have, you know, very, very small percentages of SOF operating around the

world. I think I actually have the statistics here. If you have 86 percent in CENTCOM, we

currently only have 6 percent in PACOM, 4 percent in AFRICOM, 2 percent in EUCOM,another 2 percent in SOUTHCOM and less than 1 percent in the NORTHCOM AOR. And I

think that this mass concentration within one, you know, within CENTCOM and again, acrossIraq and Afghanistan, really comes at a cost for the engagement and the culturally attuned

capabilities that SOF can bring to bear elsewhere.

Its just, I think, its growth, but not just growth to have more, necessarily, individuals,

you know, concentrated en masse. I mean, worldwide presence and engagement has been a

touchstone for SOF for many years. This concentration over such a long period of time, though,

is coming at a cost in terms of engagement elsewhere, so its again, growth but growth to dowhat and to be where?

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Well, but as weve seen recently, so many of these threats extremist threats have been popping up in other countries, where SOF is not located. And my

impression, at least, is: It is the objective of SOF to head off the extremists before they get a

foothold, before they come to some kind of power, where they can take out their actionsmilitarily.

MS. MALVESTI: Yeah, absolutely.

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Well, then, how does SOF balance that?

MS. MALVESTI: Part of it is also what the requirements currently are the militaryrequirements are in terms of the geographic combatant commanders and where they are,

currently, in Iraq and Afghanistan. Ill let Iraq I mean, Ill let Ozzie and Ken speak to that as

well.

MR. NELSON: No, I think its a great question, obviously. And you know, its one of

the reasons why, I think, SOF has to say no more often. Because there were a lot of missions

that I saw firsthand in Iraq and Afghanistan that I felt, you know, could have been done by thegeneral-purpose forces. And because SOF is so good at what they do, there is a tendency by the

operational commanders to want to use them in some of these missions.

And I think that SOF needs to regain some of that ground as far as their uniqueness and

their specialty, so that they can do exactly what you said, Jim so they can employ themselves

better in other fronts, and just like the admiral said, to get ahead of the sound of the guns. Andthe other issue was growth. I agree with Michele. Im not sure that more growth is necessary. I

think that if youre going to have more growth, again, we have to distinguish between the

operators you know, the actual trigger-pullers themselves, so to speak, and then supportinfrastructure.


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Because as you have this global presence and SOF is a global force its almost going

to be as important. Detail is very, very long on logistics. Detail is very, very long on ISR and allthose capabilities and assets. And you dont need a special operator to conduct those kinds of

activities. You need someone familiar with the special operations community, which goes back

to my earlier comments about the importance of developing a cadre of nonoperators non-

trigger-pullers that understands the SOF community in those global support functions.

MR. RAPUANO: I would just add to both sets of comments that it really does comedown to specialization in the sense of, were growing SOF, but when you look at what the

resource requirements are for counterinsurgency operations, theyre very, very large. And I

think thats why heretofore youd seen a prioritization of the high-value, direct mission set.Because its much more focused and you get much higher return on investment in the sense of,

you dont need to apply this fertilization resource, essentially, that you are in COIN.

But by the same token, were growing COIN capabilities throughout the conventionalmilitary force, so it does come back to governance and coordination. Where are you going to get

the best return on the more specialized assets within SOF, versus all of these developing andgrowing counterinsurgency capabilities and awareness within the conventional force? And then,finally, youve got to have a better prioritization process. We simply cannot do everything,

everywhere.

And I think that when it comes to mission prioritization, the SOF community is

struggling because they do have such a worldwide presence. They have a worldwide mission.

Yet on the other hand, they are very focused in terms of the lions share of the resources to

CENTCOM theater of operations. And you cant do everything, everywhere. Youve got tomake some hard choices. And I think that were going to have to do that. Were never going to

be able to grow SOF to address all of our concerns throughout the world when it comes to

insurgency and extremism. Its just not going to be possible and we need to accept that andprioritize.

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Okay. Oh, Im sorry.

Q: Hi. John Gruen, Lockheed-Martin. When we were talking about the better utilization

of SOF forces and maximizing their use, as Ozzie mentioned, the SOF enablers and the services

picking up some of that slack, it easily could be termed irregular warfare a new term of theday. Making general-purpose forces more SOF-like do you see the services taking that on

board, or are they resisting your opinion on that?

MS. MALVESTI: Ill answer part of the question and then Ill let somebody else take a

different stance on it. Im not sure if so many people always talk about SOF-like. Im not sure

that even individuals outside of SOF know what that actually means. I think special operationshas become all things to all people. I would say that the general and Im certainly not I have

no expertise on the general-purpose forces per se youre right. If you look even at the 2010

QDR, you see general-purpose forces taking on or being assigned to develop competencies inareas that, quite frankly, were once almost the sole province of SOF.


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Also, just by virtue of nine years on a battlefield, their proficiency their technical

proficiencies are starting to slowly close the gap between SOF, you know, kind of direct-actiontype capabilities. Now, whether or not how far away the general-purpose forces are from

developing true core competency in SOF-like missions I think theyre probably a long way off.

But I would say, you know, competitions good. It may be good for SOF.

This will help them retain innovation and imagination, you know, to see, perhaps,

individuals starting to take on particular areas. Rather than think of it in terms of, lets startdivesting of particular missions I mean, I think its important to shed work in operations of

marginal value but, you know, a little competitions always good. And I think if it helps SOF

to be imaginative, to remain innovative in how theyre going to approach mission sets, I thinkthats a good thing.

MR. RAPUANO: I would just add to that. I mean, I think the big discriminator for SOF,

traditionally, has been very significant technical capabilities and enablers, very intense,specialized training, the experience and maturity of their force. And in certain of those areas,

you have seen a closing of the gap with conventional forces. When you look at the enablers thatare available, now, to the standard infantry platoon in the Marine Corps or the Army, some ofthose exceed what our tier-one SOF forces had 10, 15 years ago.

So the capability of the conventional force has increased dramatically. The combatexperience level and training, at least for the types of missions that were working on in theater,

has improved substantially. Theyre still you dont have the same maturity and experience

when you compare the average special-operations operator to the standard infantryman, but you

do have a significant closing of the gap. So it really does get back to, how are you going toapply the differentiated value of the special-operations community to give you the best return on

that investment and then leverage the conventional force to start filling that gap?

Because the gap also reflects a significant expansion of mission, particularly when you

get into the counterinsurgency realm. Because the counterinsurgency mission is never-ending

and its worldwide. And we see it growing. So thats something that the SOF community isnever going to be able to address all of. Theyre going to need to focus at those areas and those

locations, with those populations, where we feel the combination of the greatest threat and likely

return on investment from the investment of those assets.

MR. MIKLASZEWSKI: Please.

Q: Hi, Paul Dennem (sp). What do you think are the top two or three gaps that thewarfighter needs to address in terms of C4ISR? If you could fix two or three things, you know,

both for indirect and direct action you know, in the field as well as in the operations center

what would those top three, four things be?

MR. RAPUANO: Well, certainly one of them is tacking and tracking, in terms of targets

of interest. The other is, in my view, it gets back to this Moores Law challenge, in the sense of,we are collecting, by orders of magnitude, more data with the employment and deployment of

more and more of these assets. And its the ability to digest it and apply it that is just a


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tremendous challenge. So how do you get the information of most relevance in the hands of the

operators who need to apply it?

Because what were doing, in effect, is were drowning the operators in information and

they cant handle it. They cant digest it. You know, you can give a lot of technology to that E-

3, E-5 in the field, but there is a saturation point where he cannot absorb it. And were got to bedeveloping both the technology, as well as the processes to better discriminate and filter the

information that we apply to the warfighters. And its not an easy challenge

And it does get that human element, in the sense of, all this data in terms of ISR in

particular its the significance of the information. So youre seeing patterns. Youre collectingmore information on patterns and individuals and potential TTPs, but if youre not applying,

throughout that system, the human knowledge that were gaining through our presence both

from the special-ops community as well as the conventional forces and then all the other,

whole-of-government set of players that are involved if youre using it and applying it where itmatters most. You know, were de

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