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From Times Online
November 9, 2009
!"#$%&'(()$*)'9 #+),",) 2009
Thaksin Shinawatra: the full transcript of his interview with The Times
%+#-./0.)1+23: 4%5+&6"-/'#+478(9$%&':4+472;&
Richard Lloyd Parry, Asia Editor of The Times, spoke to the ousted Thai Prime Minister Thaksin
Shinawatra at his home in Dubai
3.0"3'8**(,8'7?433/"@.#"378(9$%&'5)%)"#+4)",%+#-./0.)1+2)",#3+A&)23>$%,BCDEC#E(8((#!"#2="FG)HI!"#4D")J(I7J"%>?8C$4
(Charney Magri/The Times)
(0")>,'F>/78(9$%&')
Ousted Thai leader Thaksin Shinawatra
%+#-./0.)1+23BCD)="$%,BCDEC#K*8!"#(=")"!
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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Richard Lloyd Parry in Dubai
3.0"3'8**(,8'F??)+?I56"Q3S?IG)S?I - F*973"!+82+NI3+A4"*B5&F*9&+)7KP)Q3+NIF3#L)K391+2.R"523'$%,73"(,CHQ341"39 4 KOT8,$&H&>#"3,U456"F*97KP)Q3+NIF3#L)K391+2.R"523'$%,%>?)",#3+A&)23>$8+3+4#"37*M(#2+NIL)5&+,%>?5(IF*97KP)Q3+NIF3#L)K391+2.R"523'$%,%>?73"0)9 377 %>?)+?I!SI5"&"3E!+82+NI3+A4"*T8,$&H2D(I#"3?).,&7#.)$K7KP)%>?3+#J(IK390"0)&"#7#.)$K)+?)QM(%>?&"J(IKVWG"J(IB&
I was told by some of my people that the media would start to attack me because the opposition is so
weak so the media would become the opposition. I didn't believe that at that time. And finally I saw the
media attack me with unreasonable things. One day I came across the son of the owner of a daily
newspaper. I asked him: Ask your dad, why does your newspaper attack me unreasonably?' He said,
'Uncle [a general term of respect], there's nothing I can do because my father has been lobbied by two
Privy Councillors. They came to have dinner with my father and they said the King doesn't want you
anymore. I said I don't believe that His Majesty never wants to become involved in politics. Maybe it's
because of their own prejudice against me.
Q)J(IB&4"IQ)4(#B&1H"5M?(5"3&1*0)("!T!&2>B& 7?5U8B7G;)1H"5M?(Z73.?&T!&2>B&8D1,73M?(I$3D7G2UB*1+)G)S?IB&$8D?L0D8D1,Q1"&7Q"3
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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(IQ&)23>5(I%H") %+NI5(I%H")&"%")("G"37,;)#+4,1#+43"04U233"[email protected]"J(I
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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me. Even when they are in power, they still allege that I want to be president. This is a very sensitive
issue for Thai people because Thais love His Majesty, and Thais will not allow anyone who dare to topple
the monarchy?
F*9B%="I")(,H"IG)+#!)#39%+?IB&7KP)%>?).,&&"#JSN)\F*9Q1"&).,#*",7KP)KVWG"J(IB&?$8D3+4#"37Q"3
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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Most privy councillors are retired government officials? they have their subordinates so they want to have
some kind of influence. Let's say like General Prem [Tinsulanonda, president of the Privy Council] he
wants someone to be army commander-in-chief. But if you appoint someone else he may not be happy.
That is the exercise of power without the intention or anything of the monarch. It's the palace circle who
are playing the games.
(IQ'&)23>5H1)LGWHQM(JD"3"0#"3%>?7#->,3F*D1-D;=/"#8#+*/-(B>192AC1#%0'#%1=/-(#9*/-)*#D;3$E%?
The Privy Councillors are. Not only Prem but others like ladies-in-waiting, and whatever, of the Queen.
Thai society looks big, but it is very narrow in terms of the elite in Bangkok. So the influence, the network
is there. That's what makes politics complicated. It's not like the UK or Japan, where people are not
allowed to influence things.
Q/9(IQ&)23> $&HL0H7K3&Q)78>,1F2H&>Q)(M?)70H))"I5)(I(1=/-6N29G6 D;3$E%?
Yes, yes.
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L0HL0H
What kind of reform?
6N29G6/A3#-$9?
The constitutional monarchy must be strictly abided by. All the institutions must function according to the
rule of law and the political rules, but sometimes they've been influenced. The justice system can be
intervened in by the palace circle.
2D(I,S8EM(394(4#-+23.,'2"&3+A@33&)CW(,H"I7Q3HIQ3+8%U#5E"4+)2D(IK`.4+2.2"&JD(4+IQ+4J(I#aG&",F*9
JD(4+IQ+47#>?,1#+4#"37&M(IF2H4"IQ3+NIJD(4+IQ+47G*H")+N)EC#(.%@.
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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L)K397%R$%,73"73>,#1H"IC7GH" 7J8$E%?
The government is engaged in a conflict with my supporters. We are rivals, so the government is not in a
position to solve the problems. The government is not in a position to be trusted because they steal the
power, they rob the power from the people.
3+A4"*EC#($8D)?)H"70M?(EM(7,1%>?3+A4"*5"&"3E7#>?,1JD(I$8D)+?)QM(N#="*+I&UHI5CHKVWG"7192ACH#%#9M!"#/:$9$#Q3+NI )+?)QM((6+,T%-%U#XY",%>?7#>?,1JD(I
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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What would you say to the King?
045/A#(?/(/:$9(>?&9:)+=#/AG3E>'?
I would say, Your Majesty, it's time for Your Majesty to be kind to the Thai citizens, by giving them peace.
Let them stay together peacefully through the blanket amnesty and pardons. So let everyone go back to
their normal life and draft the new constitution.
?
B&(,"#4(# 2)",#3+A&)23>G*+I!"#%+#-./EC#,S8(=")"!T8)#"3%="3+AK39G"3J(I%G"3] J(LGD
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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$&HL0H5"@"3/3+A7KP)BCD&>BCD(#="*+I)2",)+N)7AW!BDE=045 !"#$%&9:/-0C+,-)&2()XA13/&'()*#?
I think His Majesty maybe now feels unwell because he's been in and out of hospital. I hope after His
Majesty gets stronger he will find a way for the country to be back to unity. We cannot let the country go
on like this. We will be getting worse and worse and the division will be getting deeper and stronger.
B&Q.81H"N73"!9$8D3+4Q1"&7*13D",F*97*1*IF*9Q1"&F2#F,##="*+I*S#*IF*9FJ;IF3IJSN) ()H"!9G&",Q1"&1H"3U)F3IJSN) )
The King seems to be recovering from his latest illness now. But there will eventually be a change of
monarch. What will that mean for Thai politics and Thai society?
'("#K>-E#A)6786(12+#((#969:;'9 L13D8!.@H4;(#K+:)(2?(#9)%I/-LK:H>-0%$!A?
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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Thailand's been governed by? this dynasty more than 200 years. There's going to be a smooth transition
but Thais need to reconcile their differences first, before the reign change. The reign change will be
smooth.
K397%REC#K#Q3(IT8,? 3"01IR')>N&"#1H" 200 KO#"37K*>?,)FK*IQI!97KP)$K(,H"I3"43M?)F2H7G)M(5.?I(M?)L80"1$%,!="7KP)2D(IK39)>K39)(&Q1"&F2#2H"I#+)#H()#"37K*>?,)3+0#"*#"37K*>?,)3+0#"*!SI!93"43M?)
One day the Crown Prince will become King. How will his style be different from that of the current King?
H>('>8E8,@-&9:?9%W/9H#+:)678(B>192AC9G6L??*/-!3#8+:L1(13#-+#((B>192AC/-0C6Y++4?>8/A3#-$9?
It may be different, but I think it will go smoothly because he's a constitutional monarch. The people
around the Crown Prince will be new, and the palace circle will not be that big because he will be new.
&+)("!2H"I#+)F2HB&Q.81H"&+)QI7KP)$K(,H"I3"43M?)7
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What does he want to achieve?
!3#81=/-(#9?99K4/:$9?
He's not the King yet, he may not be shining. But after he becomes the King I'm confident he can be
shining to perform Kingship, because he has observed His Majesty, his father, for many years. He learns
a lot from His Majesty. It's not his time yet. But when the time comes I think he will be able to perform.
%H"),+I$&H$8D7KP)#-+23.,'%H")("!$&H7K*HIK39#",F2HG*+I!"#%H")#*",7KP)#-+23.,'B&&+?)L!%H")5"&"3E7K*HIK39#",T02.0H1IL)#"3K`.4+2.G)D"%>?7KP)#-+23.,'7?,)FK*IJ(IT*# -- )+?)QI7,I
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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045)0A$?(#9)KI/(1>J-%# 3 09>J-D869:)!S$!A045$%3)0AL&= ()KI/(1>J-) LK:045)0AMG(6KZ69:E#9*/-!E#9 1"#LE83-*/-0450I//:$9? 045A>-)6788#A(9>Z%819.$!AFG=K.JP>AD;3
$%3?
Now I consider myself as ex-prime minister of Thailand and in exile. I was asked to lead a government in
exile. I didn't do that because I don't want to hurt the monarchy. So after the King signed the decree
accepting the coup, I said then I am finished.
71*")>NB&EM(1H"B&7KP)(8>2)",#3+A&)23>J(IK397%R$%,F*9#="*+I*>N6+, B&EC#J(LGD7KP)BCD)="3+A4"*?BH")&"!)ESI71*")>NK397%R7*13D",*I8+I)+N)B&!SI2H(5CD7,I5H1)LGWH%>?LGWH&"#$&HL0H75>,I5H1)LGWH7*;#)D(,
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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She's under house arrest, I've been kicked out of the country. They know that if I am in the country it'll be
worse [for them] than Aung San Suu Kyi.
7@(EC##+#43.71/(,CHL)4D") B*+4EC#729((#!"#K397%R-&?(>?8#A(9>Z%819.^48)Q8*/-(>%&G;#D8/#!21AC8.J045+:A=#A$6/AG3D8(>%&G;#E9I/$%3?
No, I can work online. I can work through email, but I want to thank Hun Sen in person.
After he announced the royal decree I rang him to thank him and he invited me to go to Cambodia.
$&H B&5"&"3E%="I")(()$*)' (%"IQ(&')/(/>09#;!G1(K>? !"#$%)*#1/?W1=948L9-);388>J8?
This government's trying to protect its power by every means. They're afraid that if I were staying there it
might be too close. I'm not going to stay, anyway, but I have to travel there.
3+A4"*)>N#="*+I ?)+?)F2HB&2D(I78.)%"I$K%>?)+?)
The whole government is just in a panic about me and doing nothing for the country. They over-protect
their power. They don't have power easily, so when they managed to gain power with the help of the
military and the president of the privy council they have to protect it very well like the cobra protects the
eggs.
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3+A4"*%+NI0U82#(,CHL)Q1"&G1"8#*+1L)2+1B&F*9$&H$8D%="(9$3LGDK397%R0"2.7*,(=")"!IH",\8+I)+N)7&M?(7G&M()IC7GH"K#Kf(I$JH
They are very childish. They're afraid if I were there my supporters would be more upbeat, because I stay
close. I'm not going to stay, I know it's too close, but I will visit from time to time.
?)+?)BCD5)+45)U)J(IB&!9&>&>#="*+IL!&"#JSN)7%&G;#83#+:)678!.@\)E%#:H%D8(#9)92@%)
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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KVWG"J(IK397%R$%,2D(I$8D3+4#"3F#D$J8D1,#"3)="5(IXY",7JD"G"#+)F*9%="LGD
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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No, they have never contacted me. They claim that they called me, but they never did. They never want
to settle, otherwise they cannot hold power. They are obsessed with power. If the country is not in a mess
and there is no one helping them to get the power they will not be able to hold on to power.
$&H7Q,Q1"&,U2.@33&B&!9$8DQM) 7
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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peacefully. I want to form a new party called 'Enjoy Life Party'. [Laughs.] You know I have no time to
enjoy my life. I have been working hard since I grew up. After I became a successful businessman,
instead of living my life happily, I volunteered to work for the country. Normally politics is not for rich
people to go into. Seldom people who are rich want to go in politics. But I love the people. I love my
country, I want to do good things for them. ? I could walk away. I'm really fed up of Thai style politics. But
if the people make me go back, I owe them.
QU/3CD8>1H"B&7,I2D(I#"3Q1"&,U2.@33&B&$&H5)L!1H"B&!9$8D#*+45CH#"37&M(IG3M($&H F2HED"Q)5H1)LGWH2D(I#"3B&B2D(I#*+4B&$&H5"&"3E7KP)Q)7G;)F#H2+1$8DF2HED"B&7*M(#$8DB&(,"#L0D0>1.2(,H"I5I45UJB&(,"#2+NI,#1H" 1.25&5CH5UJ [G+173"9] QU/3CD$&h1H"B&$&H&>71*"G"Q1"&5UJLGD0>1.27*,2+NIF2HT2&"B&
%="I")(,H"IG)+#&"2*(8G*+I!"#B*",7KP))+#@U3#.!%>?K395Q1"&5UJB*+4("5"%="I")LGDK397%RK#2.#"37&M(I$&HL0H5="G3+4Q)31,%>?!97J"$K&>$&H&"#%>?Q)31,(,"#7JD"5CH1I#"37&M(IF2HB&3+#K390"0)3+#K397%R0"2.B&2D(I#"3%="5.?I8>\LGDN?)+?I&"##1H"F*9)+?)!97KP)Q1"&!3.I(>#L)#"377*M(#2+NIQ3+NI
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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G)D"ED"B&(,CH%>?)+?)75>,I5H1)LGWHQI!9LGWH#1H")>?QM(7G2UB*1H"%="$&XY",23IJD"&J(IB& B&
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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Outside Thailand it's only a hundred million, or couple of hundred million US dollars. A hundred million
US dollars, actually.
)(#K397%R$%,&>K39&"/ 100 G3M( 200 *D")7G3>,W%>?!3.IK39&"/ 100 *D")7G3>,W
A couple of hundred or a hundred?
H/-9=/AE9I/E8,@-9=/A?
It used to be a couple but I spent some on my house, this and that. I have about a hundred left.
&+)7Q,&>5(I3D(,F2HB&L0D$K#+44D")J(IB&F*9(M?)\7*,7G*M(K39&"/G)S?I3D(,
How long will that last?
+:D;=$NB="*+I%="I")#="*+I%="@U3#.!B&$&H5"&"3E)+?IL0D7I.)70H))>NB="*+I%="@U3#.!J/9)>NB&*I%U)B&&>7G&M(I%(IL)(C#+)8"5.4FGHI B&&>L4()W"2.((#*(272(3>?L)(C#+)8"^d!.F*9F(IT#*"73"!973.?&%="#"3L)78M()"Q&5="G3+4L4()W"2.%="7G&M(I%(I&>Q1"&7KP)$K$8D5CI%>?!9
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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%="@U3#.!
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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On November 14 there will be a fundraising concert. I'm going to sing [a Thai song entitled] 'Thanks for
beating me up again!', because they keep beating me. The song is saying, Thanks for repeatedly
beating me, and you beat me in the same place where it really hurts! That's a song about love.
L)1+)%>? 14 ?,$37I.)B&!93D(I7#7?)>?G)S?IKO5(IKOB&54",8>F2H5E")#"3/'L)K397%R$%,2D(I$8D3+4#"3F#D$JT8,73;1
Why? If it's not solved, what's going to happen?
!"#$%? M=#$%3$?(#9L(=$*/:$9+:)(2
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7R3-A#.!!92#2?="*I,.?IJSN)Q)$%,0>1.2J(I7J"7G*H")+N)7*13D",*IFF*9K397%R$%,$&H$8D(,CH4)!(738"3'J(IK397%RLGWH(>#2H($K71*")>N!U8RC),'#*"I%"I#"37&M(I$&H$8D(,CHL)K397%R$%,(>#2H($K5="G3+45G3+A&+)7*M?()$K(,CH
%>?(.)T8)>7[>,
Some people in Thailand seem to have worse fears than just economic and diplomatic stagnation. You
hear people talking about some kind of economic collapse, civil war. Is that possible?
08D869:)!S$!A?#-H3'8
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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What about the sale of Shin Corp [Mr Thaksins family telecommunications company which was sold to
the Singaporean government for 77.3 billion bath (1.14 billion) without paying tax, a cause of intense
criticism of MrThaksin when he was prime minister]. You didn't pay tax. Putting aside the legal rights
and wrongs, was that a misjudgement, politically?
LK=')9I@/-(#9*#A?92B>!;28 [?92B>!HI@/H#9W!90%8#0%*/-09/?09>'045!>(B25Q,@-*#ADE=9>Z?#KH2-0W69C77.3 &>8K=#8?#! (1.14 &>8K=#86/8Z%819./A3#-948L9-] 045$%3)H.AP#B.W#3&533J(IQU/$8D6"->!"#B*#="$3!"##"3J",%3+
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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be free and clear from being criticised for conflict of interest. So they thought they'd better sell [the
company].
$&H77I.)&G"R"* Q3(4Q3+1[J(IB&]2D(I#"3LGDB&7KP)(.539F*9K*(8!"##"32="G).L)73M?(IB*K39T,0)'%+4[D() 8+I)+N)?&>8\1=/-1#A)&9#:;#'%4HK2%!.@1=/-(#9L?3-LA(
?$8DEC#7J>,)4"I5H1)J(I$%,#*",7KP)&"7*7[>,4"I5H1)%>?7Q,7KP)J(I&"7*7[>,#*",7KP)J(I$%,5H1)J(I$%,%>?#*",7KP)&"7*7[>,)+N)$&H&>KVWG"F2H5H1)
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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J(I&"7*7[>,%>?#*",7KP)J(I$%,&>KVWG"?#39:H()!"##"32",J(I0"1&U5*.&85 Q)G*+IEC#!+4!"##"3!*"!*?(U4+2.7G2U [)H"!9@8)678(#9EA3#(#9)%I/-)&I@/D;=(NE%#A6(6b/-!9>&ACH28
8/6/2019 Translation Taksin
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My wife understands that I have a lot of supporters. I cannot avoid going back to politics because of the
supporters who pinned hopes on me. And she really was not supporting me from the beginning to enter
politics, because she comes from a very low profile family. She seldom went out with me, especially
abroad, she never followed me. She wanted to be low profile, she doesn't like politics at all, but she
understands that I have to go back to politics. So she said: 'I cannot be against you in politics anymore
because I sympathise with those who are supporting you. But you have to sympathise with me. I cannot
bear it anymore, it's too much on my life, so we'd better divorce'. So we divorced with understanding. We
help one another to take care of children but with politics she said, 'Please - I don't want to be involved
anymore'. She lives in Thailand and since we divorced we never see each other.
633,"B&3CD8>1H"B&&>BCD5)+45)U)&"#B&$&H5"&"3EG*>#7*>?,I#"3#*+45CH#"37&M(I7,4\7@($&H0(4#"37&M(IF2H7@(7JD"L!8>1H"B&2D(I#*+4$K5CH#"37&M(I(>#8+I)+N)7@(!SI#1H" 8+I)+N)73"!SIG,H"#+)8D1,Q1"&7JD"L!#+)73"2H"I0H1,#+)8CF**C#\F2H5="G3+4#"37&M(I7@(?,)$K%U#(IQ'#3#;2D(IK3+42+12"&56"19
F18*D(&7&M?(QU/7#.87KP)%"3#G+1L!)+N)7*;#&"#7&M?(QU/72.4T2JSN)G+1L!J(IQU/#;72.4T22"&3H"I#",J(IQU/QU/$&H5"&"3E7#;4G+1L!78;#(H()$1DL)3H"I#",BCDLGWH$8D&+)7KP)$K$&H$8D%U#5E"4+)$&H7,IF2H5E"4+)#-+23.,'7G&M()#+)%U#5E"4+)&+)2D(I&>#"3K3+42+17(I7JD"#+4(93$\%>?#="*+I7K*>?,)$K
BCDFK*433!47!3.W0*1").0