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OuTbAck
LEGAcY WAGON
$10,000 $30,000
$6000$25,000
$2000$15,000(for used car dealers add around 30%, incl GST)
Quick SummaryGreat to drive, with reasonable reliability at low
mileages & excellent safety. However, these cars often don't
age well.
How Reliable?Good, but see 'what goes wrong' below
How Safe?Excellent. See our safety summary below
ALSO CONSIDER: Something more practical at high mileages, like a
Toyota Camry.
Subaru Legacy / Liberty / Outback2003-09
LEGAcY/ LIbERTY
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$11,500 $45,000
$10,000$42,000 (for used car dealers add around 30-40%, incl
GST)
SUB MODELS: the Legacy and Liberty are the same car with
different badges. Legacy is the international name, Liberty the
Australian name. The Legacy/Liberty was offered as either a
four-door sedan or a five-door station wagon. The Outback is the
SUV version of the Legacy.
Some of this wording is shared with other reviews.
Japan is a very conservative society and exports most of its
vehicles to cultures that it does not fully understand. There-fore,
changes come slowly and cautiously. Also, Subaru is, and always has
been, a small carmaker with very limited budgets, with potential
bankruptcy always lurking somewhere in the background.
Before Subaru, four-wheel drive was mainly for offroad use and
was rarely employed on an everyday car. The Leone which offered the
option of four-wheel drive motoring for the same price as a
conventional car saved Subaru in the early 1970s. The Leone model
was sold worldwide for an extraordinary 23 years before finally
being retired in 1994. How-
ever, long before the Leone expired as a model, its shortcomings
were obvious: it was too small, underpowered and unsafe for Western
car buyers.
Thus, the 1989 launch of the Legacy (Liberty in Australia)
ushered in a new era for Subaru.
The Legacy was larger, had more power and was far safer than the
Leone. However, it was still a bit small and a bit gutless for many
Western buyers. This took Subaru a long time to grasp: side streets
in Japan are often little more than well-sealed cart tracks; large
cars are heavily taxed and would not fit into many carparking
spaces.
With time, the message got through and Subarus designers went
back to the drawing board once more. They enlarged the existing
vehicle, gave the engines more power and made the Legacy a nicer
car to drive. As Subarus designers became more aware and more
confident, this process of ongoing improvement continued.
Thus, the Legacy, with each generation, grew larger, more
powerful, more comfort-able and more safe.
Aside from power and comfort, handling improved noticeably on
this version of the Legacy. The rear suspension was vastly improved
over the previous version, mak-ing the Legacy far better at
cornering and giving it much better stability overall.
Subaru did make a few blunders: due to the fact that Subaru
couldnt afford to produce a new body for this vehicle, they
recycled the old one: thus,the width of the Legacy was kept to a
Japanese standard: 1.7 metres, meaning that the rear seat is too
narrow for three large adults.
Subarus styling has often been ques-tionable, but you cant fault
most of the engineering. The Legacys interior has a
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designed-by-an-engineer-rather-than-an-artist feel about it. The
choice of interior plastics appears to have been made by some
accountant somewhere; Subaru clearly never consulted any Western
carbuyers before they went ahead with production. In reality, we
suspect that Subaru had used up so much of its budget designing the
mechanical parts of the vehicle that there simply wasnt enough
money left to do a decent job on the interior. Not that it matters,
to most Subaru owners. Next to Apple Mac owners, Subaru owners are
among the most loyal consumers on the planet, coming back for more,
generation after generation. They have learned to trust their
vehicles, and a budget interior doesnt seem to bother them
much.
The Legacys front occupants are well-treated, although the seats
arent all that easy to adjust. When adjusted, the low-slung seats
are comfortable and the driving position is very good for the
average driver. However, the steering wheel adjusts for height but
not reach, so very short or tall drivers may feel less at home.
Theres just enough legroom in the front and not enough in the
rear.
The interior is well built and reasonably nicely thought out,
although thanks to the lightweight design and the quality of the
plastics squeaks and rattles are com-mon.
Upmarket models were re-powered by a 2.5 turbocharged engine,
introduced to solve emissions problems without sacrific-ing power.
The new engine, while frugal, was inclined to drink oil. These
engines have also given more than their fair share of other issues
as well. The problem with all the recent Subaru engines is that
theyre a very old design that has been constantly
updated to wring out the maximum power and fuel economy. Theres
a limit to how far you can go with this, and many of these engines
are at that limit.
Later versions offered a 2.0 diesel version that offered
impressive fuel economy and reasonable performance.
Subaru also introduced a feature called Subaru Intelligent Drive
(SI-Drive), fit-ted to all turbocharged models and the 3.0 model.
In theory, SI-drive allows the driver, via a dial on the centre
console, to play God with the operation of engine and automatic
transmission. By simply turning the dial, you can choose between
economy and two sports settings.
Like most other systems of this kind, SI-drive works best on
paper and worst on the road. Its a silly gimmick; when you select
economy you use less petrol and you get less power. However, you
can easily achieve exactly the same result by simply driving less
aggressively.
Moreover, the claimed fuel economy im-provements arent always
there; most of the time the so-called improvements show up on the
fuel economy display rather than at the gas station. All fuel
economy computers tend to be a bit optimistic, but the Legacys one
seems to be more optimistic than most where SI-drive is
concerned.
Rather more successful is the six-speed manual gearbox, which
makes good use of the engines power and, if driven gently, returns
passable fuel economy, even on larger engines.
The automatic transmissions arent per-fect. Because theyre set
up to give maxi-mum fuel economy, theyre often in conflict as to
when to change gear. That is, they are torn between the desire to
change gear at the appropriate time, and the desire to
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wring out the maximum amount of fuel economy by changing earlier
or later than the driver needs. This programming often produces
indecisive gearchanging, which may be a pain to live with for some
driv-ers. Some of these transmissions also gave problems from
new.
On the road, the Legacys handling is typical of a good
four-wheel drive: tena-cious grip coupled with mild understeer. In
English, this means that, although the Legacy will stick to the
road like glue, even on loose road surfaces, it will want to keep
going in a straight line on corners. You learn to adapt your
driving style to suit this reality.
Understeer aside, the Legacy handles okay. The ride is too firm
on performance models and a bit inadequate on cheaper models.
Upmarket, non-performance mod-els offer the best overall ride.
The steering is direct and firm across the range.
OuTbAckLike many modern SUVs, the Subaru
Outback is a mostly-urban vehicle with slight offroad
pretentions. It isnt and never has been, a genuine offroad vehicle.
The Subaru Outback is a slightly modified ver-sion of the Legacy
wagon. Its natural turf is city streets and gravel roads. Other
than being slightly higher off the ground, having
a butch styling combined with a slightly heavier suspension, the
Outback is no dif-ferent to a Legacy station wagon.
The Outback arose out of Subarus desperate need to cash in on
the SUV craze of the 1990s. Subaru was financially-challenged at
the time and couldnt afford to build a genuine SUV, so they
invented a pretend one.
A large part of this vehicles success arose from Americas
extraordinary but brief fas-cination with rural Australian culture
that followed the release of the first two Croco-dile Dundee movies
in the 1980s. Unsur-prisingly, the actor who played Crocodile
Dundee Paul Hogan was chosen as Subarus spokesman in America, and
the ve-hicle was given a title that spoke of rugged rural Australia
the Subaru Outback.
In fact, this name was something of a con: few Australians ever
drove one of these vehicles offroad in the true outback. Nor should
they; as a car to drive round town and take down dusty roads, the
Outback does just fine. You rarely see one crossing the Simpson
Desert, which speaks for itself, really. Its not that the Subie
cant cope in sand or dirt highways; quite the opposite. Its a great
vehicle for muddy dirt tracks and dusty backroads. What the Outback
cant cope with is ravines, rocks, logs and rivers. In serious
offroad situations its common for the water to come right up over
the bon-net of a vehicle during the crossing. Light vehicles can
easily get washed downstream. Water can also get sucked into the
engine, wrecking it instantly. Sudden dips can eas-ily mean a
vehicle gets stuck in the bottom of a V shaped ravine, both ends
jammed, with the wheels spinning hopelessly. Large rocks and logs
will not only shipwreck a low vehicle like the Outback, but
theyll
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often seriously damage the underside of the vehicle in the
process.
Serious offroad situations require a seri-ous offroader, such as
Toyota Land Cruiser or Nissan Patrol, which are purpose-built to
cope with ravines, rocks, logs and rivers. Serious offroaders also
tend to have winches to pull themselves out of trouble, some-thing
your rarely see on an Outback. Still, offroad prowess is rarely
relevant to buyers of SUVs. Outbacks are sold and used as city
station wagons. This is a task they perform well, although their
load-carrying space is not huge.
ALL VERSIONS
Legacys and Outbacks all versions re-mind us of one of those
Hollywood action heroes good-looking, strong and vigor-ous. The
sort of friend youd like to hang out and be seen in public with.
However, when you look back a decade later they dont seem to have
aged very well. Perhaps in the Legacys case you can blame the
previ-ous owners. Perhaps not. Theres no doubt that if these
vehicles have not been main-tained carefully then both the engines
and transmissions will give grief at an early age. However, even
well-maintained cars are not immune to problems. Automatics on
these cars were never great, although later ver-sions were a
definite improvement. Subaru was forced to upgrade these
transmissions time after time, but outside of Japan they would only
upgrade the transmission if the owner complained. Typical problems
are transmissions that shift abruptly and with
a thump or a bang, lack of acceleration and a refusal on the
part of the transmission to change down when the vehicle is going
between 40-70km/h. Regardless of how well the transmission is
serviced, expect it to need a full and expensive overhaul every
100,000km. The rest of the car should be perfectly reliable until
about 150,000km. We know of vehicles that have done three times
that mileage without problems, but theres no guarantee. Bear in
mind also that these vehicles are reasonably complicated and many
jobs on the engine require that the whole motor comes out.
Even owners who have maintained their vehicles to the highest of
standards have sometimes discovered, the hard way, this fact: like
Hollywood action heroes, these vehicles are best enjoyed while
theyre young and vigorous. Often, old age isnt kind to them.
See also our comments on Diesels, Tur-bochargers &
Superchargers in the links page that follows this review, and on
Subaru at the end of this review
Fuel system problems Legacy models built between
24 April 2003 & 14 April 2004 (only 12 vehi-cles affected)
The fuel tank may leak around the fuel pump when full. If the
problem has been fixed in Japan there will be white paint on the
bolt securing the fuel tank onto the vehicle body. VIN numbers:
BL5-002001 BL5-018656;BP5-002005 BP5-046175Search dogandlemon.com
RJ-1342-2
Engine problems These engines require that the antifreeze gets
changed religiously, or the interior of the motor will be eaten
away by corrosion.
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Rattly engines which leak oil probably warn that the end is
nigh. EJ20 two litre Subaru engines (and some others) are rapidly
developing a bad reputa-tion for premature big end bearing failure.
Subaru is claiming that the problem is lack of maintenance, but we
know of a number of cases where the buyer was careful and thorough
and it still occurred. The problem is worst on the twin turbo
versions: these engines are equipped with the short skirt pistons
which also wear badly. The symptom of the big end problem is a
distinct knocking when you start the car from cold and the symptom
of the piston wear is a rattle when cold. The above two problems
seem to strike at around 150,000km. Overheating can destroy your
engine! See our article Keeping it Cool in the links page that
fol-lows this review. EJ25 2.5 litre DOHC engines are well known
for blowing head gaskets. See our general head gasket warning at
the end of this review.Timing belts and belt tensioners need
replac-ing every 100,000km (or five years, whichever comes first)
or they may break, causing severe engine damage. Timing belt
replacement can be expensive. See our article A Question of Timing
in the links page that follows this review. The 3.0 engine uses a
timing chain, not a timing belt. A noisy chain probably indicates a
tired or badly maintained engine. We have a few reports of these
chains breaking at quite low mileages, causing massive engine
damage. See our article A Question of Timing in the links page that
follows this review. Turbochargers rarely last as long as the
engine they are bolted to, and they aint cheap to fix The
crankshaft oil seal leaks The crankshaft pulley nut strips out,
caus-
ing crankshaft damage. This is a very common problem and
generally occurs not long after the vehicle has had its timing belt
replaced. Some engine shops can repair the crankshaft in place, but
if theres not one nearby the whole engine will have to come out.
Fuel pumps die with age, and are VERY ex-pensive to fix.
Liberty GT (2007-2008MY), Impreza WRX (2008MY, not including STI
models) & Forester XT (2009MY), built be-fore 10 November 2008
The turbo charger oil supply pipe may be deformed and vibration
during normal driving could casue the pipe to crack and leak engine
oil. VIN numbers: not disclosed. Details @ dogandlemon.com
Legacy 5-speed manual turbo models built between 24 April 2003
& 31 March 2004 The timing belt tensioner may al-low the belt
to move and become damaged. If the problem has been fixed in Japan
there will be white paint on top of the timing belt cover.VIN
numbers: BL5-002044 BL5-018374; BP5-002137 BP5-041689Search
dogandlemon.com RJ-2175-0
Gearbox & drivetrain problems Constant velocity (CV) joints
are prone to wear. Drive the car in a tight left, then right-hand
circle and listen for the telltale knock-knock-knock sound.Also
check behind the wheel for split CV boots and grease leakage. If
the boot is split, CV failure is not far behind, and this CV is a
mod-erately expensive repair. Clutches are the weakest link in the
power transmission chain . Try accelerating hard after changing
from first to second while driving uphill. If the car doesnt speed
up but the revs keep rising, theres a problem. Manual gearboxes are
prone to problems from around 150,000km onwards. Symptoms of
impending doom include jumping out of second gear and crunching
when changing in and out of third. Difficulties shifting may also
be worn shifter bushings. The differentials on these cars will
quickly seize if the vehicle is run with tyres of different
heights.
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Rear differentials blow and may be expensive to fix See our
general automatic transmission warning at the end of this
review.
Automatic Liberty 3.0, Liberty GT 2.0/2.5 & Outback 3.0
models built be- models built be-tween 2005 & 2007 Transmission
may slip due to a leaking oil cooler hose. This is also a fire
haz-ard. VIN numbers @ dogandlemon.com
Steering & suspension problems STEERing RACkS AnD PUMPS ARE
PROnE TO FAiLURE AT VERy high MiLEAgES. Especially watch out for
oil leaks from the steering rack, because this not only signals
that the unit needs rebuilding, it may cause it to fail a safety
check Suspension bushes are prone to wear Suspension struts are
prone to wear Check for uneven tyre wear. It may mean that this car
has clipped a curb while parking, or there may be hidden accident
damage. If theres uneven tyre wear, insist on a four-wheel
alignment before proceeding. The rear springs are prone to sagging
if the vehicle has been overloaded.
brake & safety problems See our general airbag and ABS
warning at the end of this review. heavy disc wear is common,
especially at the rear. REAR DISCS ARE BOTH DIFFICULT AND EXPENSIVE
TO REPLACE
Worldwide recall of Legacy models built between 24 April 2003
& 14 April 2004 The rear stabiliser may interfere with rear
brake callipers and cause brake fluid to leak. VIN numbers @
dogandlemon.com
Search dogandlemon.com RJ-1342-1 Search theaa.com R/2005/117
body problems Many Legacies have been pranged, and not always
fixed properly. You should always have the vehicle professionally
checked, but also check for uneven tyre wear, wheel wobble when
driving and especially watch for a tugging towards one side of the
road as you drive Many Legacies have been used to tow boats, so
a
check for rust underneath is essential, especially in the front
crossmember, around the wheel wells and in the front of the
bonnet
Worldwide recall of Legacy models built between 24 April 2003
& 21 March 2005 The rear doors may open while driving. If the
problem has been fixed in Japan there will be black paint on the
latch of the rear door lock. VIN numbers:
Search dogandlemon.com RJ-1462-0 and RJ-1514-0
not disclosed, search theaa.com R/2005/116
Interior problems Air conditioning is often dead & may be
uneconomic to fix Electric windows die with age Central locking
dies with age. The key re-motes are also prone to dying of old age.
Make sure that they work and make sure you get the spare as well,
or budget for its replacement.
AnCAP crash tests, Australia2004-on models. The version with
side
airbags did even better. In actual road smashes the driver of a
small-er (lighter) car is far more likely to die than the driver of
a larger (heavier) vehicle it col-lides with. (A Daihatsu Move
weighs about 815kg and a Range Rover weighs about 2500kg. This
vehicle weighs about 12001400kg, depending on the model). See also
our general comments on Four-wheel drives & Safety in the
Safety section (see the links page that follows this review) and
our general com-ments on safety in that section.
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VIN PLATE LOCATION: Right inner guard behind wheel arch
EnginE TyPE & SiZE: (petrol) 2.0 EJ20 HO 1994cc DOHC MPI,
some turbo. 2.5 EJ25 HO 2457cc DOHC MPI, some turbo (VVT on turbo
versions). 3.0 EZ30 HO 3000cc DOHC MPI
(diesel) 2.0 1998cc DOHC MPI turbo
RECOMMEnDED FUEL/S: 2.0 & 2.0 turbo Premium 2.5 Regular 2.5
turbo Premium 3.0 Premium
hOW MUCh FUEL?: Realistic urban averages:(petrol)
2.0 12.3 litres/100km 8.1 km/litre 23 mpg 2.0T 15.6 litres/100km
6.4 km/litre 18 mpg 2.5 12.8 litres/100km 7.8 km/litre 22 mpg 2.5T
17.5 litres/100km 5.7 km/litre 16 mpg 3.0 15.6 litres/100km 6.4
km/litre 18 mpg
(diesel) 2.0 7.4 litres/100km 13.6 km/litre 38.5mpg
hOW gREEn? (petrol) 2.0 J/K CO2 emissions (g/km) 148-212 2.5 K
CO2 emissions (g/km) 200-210 3.0 L CO2 emissions (g/km) 229-290
(diesel) 2.0 K meets Euro Standard IV See our article Its Not
Easy Being Green in the links page that follows this review.
SafetyPROPER SEATBELTS THROUGHOUT: YesPROPER SPARE TYRE: Yes,
except for Legacy GT models which have spacesaver only.ANTISKID
BRAKING (ABS): LEGACY all models except (previous) 2.2 LX wagon
OUTBACK standard all modelsAIRBAGS: LEGACY GX & RX dual
standard GTB & RSB driver only LX wagon not available OUTBACK
Ltd dual standard SUV not available ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL
(ESC): Outback Ltd 3.0R, and Legacy GT. Other models no.REVERSING
CAMERA: NoSUITABLE FOR TOWING? YesTOWING CAPACITY: unbraked
710-750kg, braked 1500-1800kg
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making senseof this review
Note: this PDF review is designed to be read on your computer.
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1) We suggest you read this page carefully if youre having
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confirmation that youre making the right car-buying decision, go
straight to the Quick Summary section on the front page of your
review.
2) The rest of the review is there to explain why we make our
recommendation in the Quick Summary section. Dont be surprised if
we make a negative recommendation: we try and steer buyers away
from vehicle purchases that are likely to end in tears.
3) Buying a car is a complex and confusing process. For this
reason we recommend that you calm down and read our supporting
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4) We especially recommend you click on the blue link below to
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mythology Pleiades. Subarus logo of six stars comes from the
Taurus constellation and is also a reference to the six companies
of the Fuji group.
Subarus first big break came with the four-wheel drive
Subaru is the car division of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. Fuji
also manufac-tures aircraft, trains & ships, among other
things.
Started in 1917 as the Naka-jiama Aircraft Co, the company
changed its name to Fuji Sangyo Ltd in 1945, when the American
occu-pying forces split the group into twelve independ-ent
companies. Six of these were later to regroup as Fuji Heavy
industries Ltd. and gradu-ally diversif ied into manufactur-ing
such things as motor-scooters, bus bodywork & gasoline
engines.
Subarus first car was a Fiat Bambina lookalike, the 360, in
1958.
More conventional cars started with the FF1 of 1966, formed
after a co-operation agreement with Nissan.
The trademark Subaru (cor-rect Japanese pronunciation is Soo bar
roo, not soo - ber - ROO) is a Japanese reference to the character
from Greek
SUBARUOfficial name: Subaru Division, Fuji Heavy Industries
Ltd
Owned by: Mainly Fuji Heavy In-dustries Ltd and Toyota
(16.5%).
Formerly owned by: General Motors (20%).
Current situation: On the positive side, Subaru vehicles have an
excellent reputation for performance, handling, reli-ability and
safety. However, like the giant Panda, Subaru has become too
specialised and is endangered by a changing en-vironment. Subaru
has a limited model range and is currently losing money; its a
small fish in a hostile and overpopulated sea.
Chances of survival: okay. Subarus alliance with Toyota will
improve its chances consid-erably. In the end, Subaru may end up
like Daihatsu sim-ply one of Toyotas specialist brands
Leone in 1974, which suddenly made four-wheel drive available
for the everyday motorist.
Subaru also did well with small cars & vans and its
per-formance models.
Early 80s Suba-rus had bad rust p rob l ems , and Subaru small
cars and vans were deathtraps.
In the early 90s Subaru really got its act together on both
fronts. Most m o d e r n Su b a -rus give excellent crashtest
results and rarely rust.
Subarus rally cars like the WRX have made the brand famous among
petrolheads. However, much of the tech-nology that goes into
Subarus racing vehicles is also present in its everyday cars.
Subarus do not age as grace-fully as their Toyota equivalent; a
ten year old Toyota is often still in its prime; a ten year old
Subaru is nearing the end of its trouble-free life. While theyre
new, Subarus are among the most trustworthy cars avail-able
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Before You Buy Bargain Hunting How To Use These Reviews
The Five Minute Car Check Finance Buying New
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Types of Vehicles
Japanese Secondhand Imports
Cabriolets & Convertibles
Yuppie Four-wheel Drives
Hybrids
British Cars
European Cars
German Cars
Classic Cars
Luxury Cars
Ownership Issues Automatics & CVT Transmissions
A Question of Timing - timing belts
Keeping It Cool
Know Your Battery Tyresome Foolishness
Diesels
CNG & LPG
Turbochargers & Superchargers
Safety Playing it Safe - vehicle safety features
Making Sense of Crashtests
Dozens of useful additional articles for free! Just click on the
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(you need to be viewing this page on your computer and be
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online links
Cars 1970-88
Vans & Safety Four-wheel Drives & Safety Classic Cars
& Safety A Tragic Lack of Restraint seatbelts
The Seven Deadly Sins - the causes
of road crashes
A Comedy of Errors road safety ads
dont work A Fine Mess why fines dont work Calming the Madness
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That Sleep of Death driver fatigue Victims of Circumstance how
you
live affects how you die When a Phone Box Pulls Out In Front
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Cars & The World We Live In A Long Way From Paradise The
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The Meaning of Life Dictionary of Car Terms
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Both the ABS (anti-skid braking) and airbag warning lights
should go on and then off when you first start the vehicle. If this
does not happen, the vehicle may require a major, extremely
expensive repair immediately (if either the ABS or airbag warning
lights do not go on at all, someones probably disconnected them to
hide the fact that the ABS or airbag system is faulty). If either
warning light comes on while you are driving, this may mean a
serious malfunction in the vehicles safety systems, and the vehicle
should not be driven, let alone purchased.
Modern engines work hard. Because of this, they tend to get hot
and frequently blow their top, especially if the engine has been
overheated or run without fresh antifreeze. Head gaskets may be
very expensive to fix and if left unfixed youll probably end up
broken down at the side of the road. Worse, blown head gaskets
sometimes lead to total engine failure.
The symptoms of a blown head gasket are mysterious coolant loss,
sometimes accompanied by rough running and overheating, clouds of
white steam coming from the exhaust, oil in the water, water in the
oil, and/or white goo under the oil filler cap (see picture
opposite). You should also lift out the oil dipstick. If the oil is
the colour of the white goo in the middle of the oil filler cap in
the picture, you have a cracked cylinder head and/or blown head
gasket. You should also be suspicious about any vehicle with a
heater that leaks coolant into the interior of the car. A leaking
heater is sometimes a symptom of a head gasket problem. So is a
blown or leaking radiator or its hoses.
Blown head gasket warning
ABS & airbag warning
Automatic transmission warning Automatic transmissions that do
not shift smoothly during a test drive are probably not long of
this earth. Also, with the vehicle at normal operating temperature
(so that the engine is not idling too fast) put the handbrake on
and try switching the gear selector between forward and reverse
this should happen quickly and smoothly without any clunk if not,
suspect big repair bills in the near future.
Note: the advice below may not apply on some modern cars,
because there may be no dipstick to check. For further information,
see our articles on automatic transmis-sions and CVT transmissions
in the links page (one page back).
With the transmission in neutral and the engine running at
normal operating temperature, lift out the transmission dipstick,
wipe it clean, put it back in and then remove it again. The
automatic transmission fluid should be a happy cherry red colour
& should be within the marked area on the transmission dipstick
if its not, abuse and/or neglect is pretty likely and the vehicle
should be avoided!