Strobotuner Issue I

STROBO

TUNER

ISSUE 1: TAYLOR COCHRANE

strobotuner

taylor cochrane

Bands that Taylor Cochrane plays with:

36?Mosasaur

The Kronic Groove Band (KGB)Taylor Cochrane Band

is a long-form interview zine. It features artists and performers from Calgary AB, and goes into detail often impossible in larger publications. Strobotuner is intended for the interested and the obsessive. It contains opinions, behind-the-scenes information, nerdy stuff, serious stuff, and weird freaky stuff.

Strobotuner is made by Alastair

is a multi-instrumentalist, songwriter, producer and singer. He’s written and performed funk, roots, psychedelic, cabaret and electronic music - sometimes all at once.

In 2013, his band 36? released one of the best and most interesting records Calgary has seen in some time, and re-arranged it 4 months later using homemade/improvised instruments (Where Do We Go From Here?, and Reprise, respectively).

Late-Winter 2013, Taylor and I spent 3 hours in his recording space talking about art, record mix-ing, creative process, mental health and the records that make us who we are.

Seven-member funk/pop/acid jazz group, now disbanded

Solo electronic project

Albums:

SEABEASTPREHISTORIAlittle-tiny-fish-man

mosasaur.bandcamp

Indie/Pyschedelic/Experimental

Members:

Taylor Cochrane / Ryan KuszMike Malkin / Scott White

Albums:

Where Do We Go From Here?Reprise

whatis36.com

Inactive solo project

3

contents

Head First 4

8

10

12

16

18

20

Cpt?

Oxys

Guitars

The Love Is In Your Head

Library Digging

Are You Scared Yet

Creativity // Process

Recording // Mixing // Gear

Medication // ADD // Coping

Influences // Lyrics

Dissonance & Noise

a/ Your music is incredibly diverse. It doesn’t surprise me that you’d aspire to that - everyone listens to so many genres - but you pull it off with such apparent ease.

t/ Thank you. I’m really stoked on 36? in particular. It’s great.

a/ Who writes the songs for that group? I know you have a major writing role, but do you have a group writing process? At what stage do you bring songs to the others?

t/ I’ll show you some of the stuff from a new record that 36? is working on. This is just me multi-tracked on a demo recording, what I would initially bring to the band. The idea is to do a split record, but we don’t know which band we want to collaborate with yet. It’s all based around these Public Service Announce-ments from the 50s and 60s.

a/ This is really just you? It sounds very complete.

t/ Yeah. What originally happened was that we were mixing Where Do We Go From Here? at (former bassist Eric Svilpis’s)

house, and it was taking forever. Eric is really busy with lots of projects, but I was just going crazy.

We had taken almost seven months and hadn’t really gotten any-where, so I just spent two weeks and made these demos. Doing nothing but working on the split idea, because I was so fed up with waiting to hear the new stuff.

a/ It must be a very different experience, making those demos solo, and then working on them with the rest of the 36? later on. Do you prefer having total creative control?

t/ It’s taken some getting used to for me to make a song, and then give it to someone else and have them put their own spin on it. I am a total control freak in that way. Everyone in the band knows it, and it’s ok. I think that’s the reason that I’m able to write music well, that I give so much of a shit about every little thing.

a/ Do you tell the other members to play exactly what you’ve writ-ten and recorded on the demos?

head first Creativity // Process

5

t/ Oh no, no, no. I’ll give the songs to them, we’ll play through, and if I have a specific thing in mind I might ask them to play something similar. But I’m trying to stray away from that a bit and not write deliberate parts for other musicians.

With Where Do We Go From Here? especially, I had conceptu-alized every part in my head beforehand and it was difficult to move past that. But I think eventually I did, and it sounds better because of it. Everyone brings a really cool creative energy to the table that I wouldn’t have thought of on my own. I know that it’s better when everyone puts in their own thing, but sometimes it takes me a while to get over my own ideas. *Laughs*

a/ In contrast, how is it with your solo project, Mosasaur – a set-ting where you do have total control?

t/ That whole project was also made while I was waiting for mix-es from Eric. I produced those two Mosasaur records just out of needing to put something out. Before, what I would do is make a song and throw it on the internet immediately.

a/ When it comes to writing, do you approach Mosasaur differ-ently from 36? The latter feels like such an open-ended project that you could write anything you wanted to. Do you think you respond better to limits or freedom?

t/ I think my songwriting is best when I’m not trying to make a certain kind of song, so the kinda limitless aspect of 36? Is really refreshing for me as a songwriter.

a/ I’m interested in the relationship between chaos and craft. There’s very evidently a lot of work happening in your songs, but also a very wild energy of just going for it. Do you see those as sep-arate parts in the process? Crazy inspiration and then hard work?

t/ There’s definitely the process of trying to find the balance of those two. I’ll usually write a song that will be quite simple, and then just add as much as I can into it to make it bigger.

a/ You’ll write it as more of just chords and…

t/ Kind of. Usually I’ll write a melody first. I’ll write a melody in a session, and then go through writing all the guitars and what-ever the main elements are. Then I’ll start recording auxiliary percussion, random sounds, pads – an additive kind of thing. I’ll record vocals on top of that, and tonnes of vocal overdubs in the background.

a/ Is it fair to say you start with something simple, and then kind of consciously fuck it up a bit, make it weirder?

t/ Yeah, kind of. Some of it is a bit fucked to begin with, and other songs are a lot less crazy than the final output.

a/ At what point do the lyrics come about in that process?

t/ It depends when I find inspiration for it. I really, really care about the cadence and way the words flow. If it doesn’t have the right sounding syllable, I just can’t use a word.

I think I have a good ear for melody and can kinda throw melodic ideas out there and see what happens, but lyrics are the most difficult part for me.

a/ How much do you rewrite lyrics before the final version?

t/ I’ll have certain lines that don’t work properly, and I can tell when I try to record them. A lyric won’t flow off the tongue easily, and I’ll have to redo it.

This song I put on in the background is based off a PSA about how to know if your feelings in High School are real love.

a/ They made PSAs about that? Wow. That’s a hand’s-on govern-ment. Although…that’s actually a really useful thing to know! What was their advice?

t/ It was mainly just “You don’t know until it’s been a while!”

a/ Not until you’ve made a financial commitment to this person!

t/ Yeah. It’s a little weird.

77

a/ The gear you have for your home studio setup is pretty interest-ing. How much did you plan this, versus just assembling as needs dictated?

t/ I originally had a PC computer with a version of Adobe Audi-tion, which was really weird transferring to Cubase on a Mac. All the effects I had weren’t real-time effects like what I have now. You’d actually adjust the waveform – loading a totally new form with the effect.

a/ Do you do the mixing for your records right here?

t/ I learned from watching Eric mix, and mixed the songs for this split record on my own. When it was done I loved it so much that I just thought “I’ll mix the other records too”.

This part here in the record is my favourite thing I’ve ever re-corded.

a/ It sounds massive.

t/ There’s a lot going on, even vocal percussion and chanting and stuff in the background. And that’s ultimately just the rough track. I’m really excited about what it’s eventually going to sound like with everyone.

a/ I even thought I heard vibraphone over the guitar line.

t/ I’m not sure to be honest. This album made me go really crazy. There’s so many layers, particularly on the next song – it’s really

drone-y with a tribal bit. It made me feel like I was going insane.

The whole album is one session too, and all the songs are record-ed as I wrote them. Every song has a deliberate transition into the next.

a/ What was the idea behind basing this split record around 50s PSAs?

t/ Do you know about the Prelinger Archives? It’s all of these films that are past their copyright, so it’s a huge database. What I found the most fun were these PSAs, and how ridiculous some of their techniques were for them.

a/ When you say techniques, do you mean…

t/ The way they were trying to get across the message.

a/ What about the mixing for your Mosasaur records? When I listen to the album you put out last year (Prehistoria), it sounds glitchy and lo-fi, and then the newer one (little-tiny-fish-man) is so much more full. Is that a case of conscious design, or did you just know more about mixing by that point?

t/ That old Mososaur record, I like that first one better. It has a better sound I think. It’s more organic sounding, and it was liter-ally just a mono output from my loop pedal. The other one was tracked in a session, and I would loop it digitally. Everything was more crisp, but I’m not super stoked on it. It’s ok.

cpt? Recording // Mixing // Gear

9

a/ I enjoyed it, I like the new one. But I know what you mean about the older one having more…

t/ It has more charm I think.

a/ What about recording? There’s guitars and keyboards around, but do you have drums here?

t/ The drums for the demos, and the split EP tracks you’re hear-ing are just triggered from this keyboard.

a/ No shit?

t/ Yeah. They’re obviously quantized and shit. They’re MIDI.

a/ They don’t sound hokey. I guess that’s an advantage of noisey production too, is that the guitars have an organic sound that carries the MIDI tracks behind them.

t/ Totally. And the MIDI drums are obviously electronic, but I bought really good samples. Do you know Native Instruments?

a/ Yeah.

t/ I bought their complete pack, and that’s what I got out of it: The drums. It made it really really easy to just build a song up from the ground. I didn’t have all that shit (drums kits, large percussion).

a/ Are you one of those people who has qualms about authenticity in sounds? That analog instruments are more of a ‘real’ thing? Do you give a shit about that at all?

t/ Kind of. Right now we’re using a MIDI controller for our synths, and I’d like to switch it eventually to a Moog or some kind of actual instrument, just so I don’t have a computer on stage. At the same time, I’m using (Native Instruments) Massive, and it’s so dynamic and has so many aspects to it. I wish I could find a way to have a computer on stage without… having a com-puter on stage.

a/ I know what you mean. The versatility of the computer is won-derful, and what sucks with analog keyboards is how much setup and room on stage they require. That’s fine if you have a big stage show, but if you just want to sing songs to people, it feels like a lot in your way.

t/ Totally. It’s walls between you and the listeners.

I’m playing guitar and keyboard in 36?, so I have to bring so much goddamn gear. But I guess it’s ok. At least I use all of it.

a/ What’s your favourite instrument to play? How does the feel change when you approach different instruments?

t/ I love the freedom that it brings to play either guitar or keyboards. In a lot of the Taylor Cochrane solo stuff I play a huge selection of instru-ments. I went through a phase where I would buy a tonne of different ones, which is not financially the best idea, but I like trying new instru-ments all the time. I’m obsessed with finding new sounds.

a/ Are there certain sounds that really inspire you? What are some of your favourites?

t/ If I hear something that I’ve never heard before, I get really pumped on it. My favourite music is where I don’t know what’s happening. May-be there are familiar aspects, but I wouldn’t know how they’d make it. That’s my favourite kind of production at least. Everything put together in a way that you can’t pull everything apart in your mind and concep-tualize all the pieces of the puzzle.

a/ It sounds like you’re describing a really good magic trick.

t/ Totally.

a/ What’s this electric guitar over here?

t/ That’s actually an instrument I found in a trash can. I play it on “Beauty/Strong” (from Where Do We Go From Here?).

a/ That looks bizarre. I don’t really know much about guitars, so explain this to me. It seems unusually small.

t/ Well first, the neck isn’t from the original guitar. I’m pretty sure the knobs are dials from some sort of appliance or something.

a/ It looks like something that was made in from scratch in a basement or garage.

t/ I’m pretty sure it was.

a/ That’s amazing. It sounds good on the record. Did you have to fix it up a lot?

t/ All I did was take it to get new tuning pegs put on, and fix a couple things because it kept slipping out of tune. But besides that, these are the pickups that I found. I put new strings on.

a/ What about this acoustic guitar? Is this one of your oldest instruments?

t/ I’ve had this for about… two years.

a/ Only two years?

t/ Yeah. That’s what we went on tour with.

a/ You really play your guitars hard!

t/ *Laughs* Yeah.

11

t/ 36? was originally my solo project in High School. Way, way, way more fucked up. A lot more…yeah way more fucked up.

a/ That was a much crazier time for you in general.

t/ Yeah. I was on a lot of ADD medication that really kinda fucked with my head. A lot.

a/ That’s really rough.

t/ No, no, it’s ok. Because I don’t think I’d be where I am if I hadn’t been a really fucking crazy person then, in that time period.

I never slept, and I would be super paranoid and kinda de-

pressed. I’d often hallucinate things in the dark. But at the same time, I was also really fucking productive in the studio, and that’s where I developed an ability to write while recording. Having all those really intense emotions pushed me forward creative-wise, and I was able to just…shit music. It was great.

That was the good thing about it. All the crazy shit that hap-pened wasn’t that sweet.

a/ You have pretty strong ADD?

t/ I dunno. I guess so. If I don’t want to do something it’s almost impossible for me to actually buckle down and do it. But if it’s important to me and it has to get done, I’ll either be really obses-sive and get it fininshed quickly or just not do it at all.

oxys Medication // ADD // Coping

13

a/ Are there any things that are particularly difficult for you?

t/ I don’t really read very well. I put a lot of thought into writ-ing, and I think I put together songs that are cohesive and come across nicely, but my ADD is really bad in that sense. After ten or fifteen pages I’ll realize I’m reading the same line over and over and over again. Or I’ll read a page, and nothing will be retained at all, it will just be a bunch of words.

a/ Wow. Your writing sounds like you read a lot. Do you think your ADD effects the way you listen to music?

t/ I really like music that has a lot of depth. If I can find songs where I listen to it five times and still find new things, that’s my favourite. I can pretty much enjoy any music, and it doesn’t have to be spastic or all over the place.

a/ Sorry, I didn’t mean it as a stereotype like that. I’m fascinated that your reading experience is so shaped by your ADD though. I guess I wanted to know if there were any parallels for music in terms of focusing on particular details in a repetitive way? Every-one does that to an extent – fixating on a particular line or hook – but do you think it’s stronger for you?

t/ Sometimes. I’m not sure. I think my favourite place to listen to music is when I’m driving. I can be totally emersed in a song and hear every element. Also, with my ADD I can focus more when I’m doing multiple things or my mind is being affected in different ways at once.

a/ Driving is a wonderful place to listen to music. Sometimes your surroundings match with the music in a compelling way, and there’s also the combination of the physical motion of the car and the musical progression through the song.

t/ Totally. For me it’s the best way to fully listen to an album. Especially if you’re on a road trip, the music is the main focus for me. Obviously I’m not in la la land and driving off the fucking road or something but…

a/ You kind of get in a zone.

t/ Yeah, absolutely.

a/ Can you tell me about “This Is Where I Draw the Line”? (From Where Do We Go From Here?)

t/ My parents split up. Right after, I wound up in a really fragile

emotional state. My friend called me and was like “Hey…come do a bunch of cocaine with me”, and I said “...Ok, sure”, and went over and did.

The next day I was completely fucking hung over, and emotion-ally wrecked and was just crashing like crazy, and then wrote the song that day. I think it’s my favorite song I’ve ever made, and it means the most to me. It was such a raw moment, but I was able to encapsulate it, I think. It was written as a love song to cocaine, and is all metaphors – “Though others may have cut you down/you never fail to lift us up now”.

One of the biggest triumphs of this record was getting a version of this song that I was finally happy with. I’ve recorded it five or six times, but it’s never been there.

a/ Did you assemble a live choir for that choral section, or is that multitracked?

t/ We got a bunch of people together to sing it for the record. In the final part we got everyone to sing “I’m dreaming of cocaine”, and then it’s reversed on the recording, so if you play it back-wards you can hear it. I love listening to shit backwards, it’s great.

“O Deer” is another pretty heavy song, it’s really existential. Talking about, I dunno, figuring out what the point of living is, and being under the impression that there is no real point. It’s kind of also about how philosophy is super important, but also feels redundant a lot of the time.

a/ Are you someone who has studied a lot of philosophy?

t/ I took a couple of courses in philosophy when I was going to MRU. For a while, all I would think about is big ideas on life in general, and what I thought it was. It made me go crazy for a while. After I initially went crazy, it made me go crazy again. *Laughs*

a/ Just through having an existential mental journey?

t/ Yeah. At one point, no one could convince me that anything was real. It was a dark period. I also think it was because I was just unhappy. I was working in a kitchen, which was fun, but not what I want to do.

Right now I think I’m the happiest I’ve ever been, because I’m teaching kids how to play music for work, and then get to do all this personal music too.

15

a/ 36 was a number you obsessed about, right?

t/ I would see it everywhere. Even now, I got 36 tracks from Eric to use for the Reprise album…

a/ Completely by accident?

t/ Yeah! Shit like that would happen all the time. Back in high school, when I was completely crazy and paranoid, I thought it meant something.

Now it’s just like, “Oh!” As far as the question mark, it just refers to me wondering why I see it everywhere.

a/ It feels like your music questions and searches a lot too.

t/ Yeah, absolutely.

15

t/ Here, this is the first 36? song ever. This is really fucked. *Laughs*

a/ It still sounds really accomplished to me.

t/ I guess it keeps a lot of my sensibilities. It’s a lot more angsty I think.

I have all the old stuff for free on Bandcamp if you want. This track is right before I joined the Kronic Groove Band, and when I was the most crazy. I think it even affected the way that I heard things.

I’ve read that if you do a lot of stimulants, your sense of high-fre-quency sound gets really fucked. So the guitar in this song is way too treble-y

Plus, anything from this time period has an almost musical theatre aspect to it.

a/ I was going to say, there’s a lot of melodrama…wait! That part right there, kinda sounds like ‘Toxic’, the Britney Spears song.

t/ *Laughs* Yeah it kinda does.

a/ You had such a strong melodic sensibility, even then.

t/ I’ll show you some really old stuff. Have you ever listened to the record Say Anything... Is A Real Boy?

a/ Yes.

t/ That record changed my life. It completely changed the way I write songs.

a/ I was going to ask about that. I find for most people there’s one or two records that completely spin you around in terms of how you do your craft. And that’s one of those albums for you?

t/ I used to write really fucking…I dunno. Just straight up pop-punk about girls. I’d never kissed a girl until I was 17, so I was to-tally lonely and by myself and would write shitty fucking songs.

a/ It’s such a hilarious cruelty of biology that boys are at their horniest when they’re absolutely least likely to get laid.

t/ *Laughs* Yes!

a/ Let’s talk about Say Anything…Is A Real Boy’. I don’t know a lot about Say Anything overall, but I’ve heard that record, and to me that it’s the sound of a precocious whiz-kid – really good singer, can play lots of instruments – but who is angsty, unhappy, and sexually frustrated.

t/ Yep! That was it. It spoke to me, and it was cool to hear that really nice poppy, punky sound incorporated into much more dynamic songs than I was used to. Also, there was a big musical theater sound in that stuff, which I hadn’t thought about using before that record.

a/ Were you ever involved in full-on musical theatre?

t/ Not really, no. I was in drama, and tried to do a project, but it never came to be.

This is a song about how a girl would only talk to me on the internet.

a/ That is a beauty nineties chord progression.

t/ The vocals are just…so bad.

a/ When was this?

t/ This was...jeez. Grade 11 or 12.

I just kinda shit stuff like this out. I have a lot of it, probably fifty tracks from around that time, but not all as complete as that.

a/ There’s obviously been a lot of growth since that time, but I think it’s notable how much song structure you used. There’s an overlap-ping countermelody over the main vocal that just kicked in – that’s fantastic.

t/ This next song is a similar concept to the last, but it’s about someone who just spends all their time on the computer. I ripped it off a skipping CD, so there’s a background sound, but I kinda liked it.

This is the time period where I developed my sense of pop.

a/ Your writing here is so much more blunt and raw than I’m used to. Have you consciously moved away from that? Or have you just gotten a bigger arsenal of writing techniques where you can dress things up a little?

t/ A bit of both probably. Some of these other songs are just basically Brand New songs. The lyrics are really blunt. A lot of it is just straight up emo, and some of it is so bad.

a/ I wonder how much of that was the time period though. Big name bands were writing songs with similar lyrics that were hits.

the love is in your head

Influences // Lyrics

17

t/ Yeah… ugh… it’s just so overwhelmingly depressive. *Laughs*

a/ In your case though, it sounds like this same time period was legitimately difficult for you. I would guess that for many emo bands, a lot of their writing was just depressive pretence. But you actually had some pretty serious justifications for being angsty.

How much of your lyric writing do you think was what you were feeling, and how much was just carefully paying attention to the radio?

t/ It was definitely both. I really liked this kind of music, and I was emotionally a basket-case. But I wrote these lyrics believing every word I said.

a/ Does your writing at that time relate at all to your writing now?

t/ Everything on this upcoming 36? split record is about a spe-cific emotion, having to do with me. The other 36? material is a lot of random stories, fictional shit. That’s one reason I’m really stoked on this split thing - returning to a bit more personal song-writing.

a/ Between the more literal, personal writing, and fictional story-telling, do you flat-out prefer one over the other?

t/ Even when I write about myself, I try to wrap it in a lot of weird analogies and imagery so it sounds like it might be about something else. But I definitely like the personal stuff more, just because the final song will have more emotion I think.

a/ I don’t want to frame all this as a ‘real’ thing versus a ‘fake’ thing. You’re a good writer, and anything fictional you write will be grounded in emotion and personality, just maybe a different way of getting at that emotional core. Direct and indirect perhaps?

What you’re saying is that you use craft and writing skill to make something personal into something a bit less raw?

t/ Yeah. I always really like it when artists are straight up and no bullshit, but I’m…all about the bullshit in a way. *Laughs*

The vocals from the song Taylor plays me are shockingly different from present. Compared to the voice I know: clear, strong, versatile – the sound is tight and very nasal. Pitch-wise, the singing is relatively accurate, but the voice I hear on this track is simply a different one.

In a world saturated with teen youtube sensations, it’s abundantly clear that Taylor was not a vocal prodigy as a young teen, or at least that his talent has been refined considerably over time. As a relatively new singer, I find this is incredibly comforting.

The track Taylor plays me is a home recorded but watertight pop-punk song, with exactly the kind of sarcastic, painfully-young chorus that dominated the early 2000s:

No I’m not a loserBecause I only talk through my computer screenI’ll BRBI’ll BRB

As cringeworthy as this might seem to Taylor and I now, it stands up to charted Simple Plan songs of the same time period.

Brian Wilson

St. Vincent

The Tontos

Tune-Yards

Beyoncé

Muse

MGMT

Beyoncé

The Resistance

Congratulations

SMILE

St. Vincent

Bump

WHOKILL

librarydigging

I scrolled through Taylor’s iTunes library and asked him about records that caught my eye. Taylor was excited about many albums.

19

I love that album. It’s so crazy and dynamic. It’s weird because it’s really happy, but you can tell that there’s something slightly in disarray about it, a blissful but really fucked-up feel which I thought was kind of cool.

It’s fucking great. It’s so good, have your heard it? Dude it is so fucking amazing. This is coming from someone who was not looking forward to anything from Beyonce; didn’t give a shit. I found it on Pitchfork and they said “This is actually pretty good, you should check it out”, and I did. And it’s fucking great.

I looked into it and she helped produce it. Her and a team of people put this record together, and it’s so well produced. It’s really cool to see music this dynamic and progressive being a pop music album. You’ve got shit like Miley Cyrus and Katy Perry that’s just so soulless and doesn’t fucking…I dunno. But then this, which everyone is crazy about, but for good reason.

I think it’s happening more than it was in say, 2000-2010. With record companies not really having as much say anymore, it’s almost like something that is original is a good thing again. There’s so much fucking music out there that you have to make it interesting, and the artists who are already really popular have to do that now too which is really cool.

(“Beyoncé”) Is really dark and experimental, but at the same time she had so much fucking money to produce an amazing record that her and everyone who helped make it had almost free reign in what they could do - and were willing to make musically interesting choices. It’s fucking amazing.

That’s their best record. I’m not super pumped on the new one, though it’s really interesting and well-produced. I think the production of records, particularly now, is such a huge part of the whole package.*

One of the sweetest live shows I’ve ever seen. She has so much energy and she’s so fucking great. She’s like Regina Spektor in that she makes really straight-up, true music. Really from the heart; kinda fragile in a way.

It’s great. Really straight-up and charming.

Fantastic. I saw them live at Sasquatch a couple years ago, and they were really amazing.

It’s so good. It’s a fucking crazy record. Another example of very interesting production.

*This thought is expanded upon on page 22.

are you scared yet?

Dissonance & Noise

21

a/ What’s your favourite album you’ve heard this year?

t/ I dunno man! There’s so much crazy shit. Have you ever heard of Deafheaven?

a/ Yeah, Sunbather. Although I only know that because of all the buzz it’s been getting. I’m such a junkie with music reviews.

t/ Like Pitchfork? I think their “Best Of ” lists are pretty great. That’s where I get a lot of the music I like. I don’t really read the reviews, but I use the lists.

I think I enjoy that site because the things they tend to rank highly seem really original sounding. Deafheaven sounds like post-rock mixed with black metal, but the way that it’s mixed is so interesting. There’s so many layers that keep moving in and out of the mix.

a/ Kinda shoegazy.

t/ Yeah. The vocals will get really loud, and then really quiet. You’ll think you hear a melodic vocal in the background, but it will be for just enough time to register, not really perceive it fully. So you will hear things, and not be sure if they really happened or you imagined them.

Sunbather really blew my mind, partly because I don’t really listen to this kind of music. Besides that abum and a grindcore band called Pig Destroyer, I don’t really like metal.

So I guess that’s my favourite of heavier things at least. Oh, have you heard of Death Grips?

a/ I was just about to ask.

t/ They’re fucking great. They’re so weird. For heavy music - Deafheaven is an exception to this because they’re really melodic and beautiful - but purely heavy music like Death Grips or Pig Destroyer I think has to make you uncomfortable to be success-ful.

It’s like watching a really well-done horror movie: it should make you squeamish and anxious to listen to. If you’re trying to make really dark music, that’s how to do it I think.

a/ There’s maybe an extra challenge with music where, if you go see a play for example, you’ve committed to sitting in a dark room for a couple hours and digesting it. But with music, unless you’re in the car, most people are listening to music while they do other things, and are put off by abrasive music because it runs perpendicular to the normal flow of things – it’s deliberately interrupting.

Do you think about that when you’re making music with a bit of an abrasive edge, that you have to make it palatable for people who might be idle listeners?

t/ I haven’t successfully made anything that I would say is anxiously dark, or isn’t accessible in some way – at least that I’ve released.

With the Death Grips record (Government Plates), I actually did just sit down and listen to fully, and I felt *so* fucked up after-wards. Do you know Venetian Snares or Aphex Twin? It’s kind of similar to those in that it’s so unapologetically whatever it is, not trying to be anything besides a twisted fucked-up thing.

This kind of music really demands your attention. Dissonant noise is so key for achieving that I think.

Here, I’ll put on Pig Destroyer.

The way I think about really dark kinds of music is different from how I normally think about music. It’s almost like you’re listening to really aggressive noise rather than actual music.

a/ In that you’re not thinking about structure and theory and that kind of thing?

t/ Well, I think why I like bands like this is they use very finely tuned structure, but it’s so well done that it sounds like it’s com-ing out of nowhere and the chords…well, you’ll see.

I love that the vocals for this band are so all over the place. What I can’t stand about most metal music is that low, drone-y “ughhhh” type vocal that sounds like a really old drunk man or something. (Pig Destroyer) is just so abraisive and unforgiving.

a/ That’s cool. It’s a bit much for me, but I can appreciate it as a deliberate thing.

t/ It’s weird. It’s not pleasant to listen to, but it’s still enjoyable in a way.

t/ Everthing isn’t produced the same way anymore, and I think the way you produce is more of the artistry than ever before. You have so many options in the way you do it. You can record something clean and great, and then either turn it totally lo-fi, or make it crisp and tight and perfect.

Do you listen to Akron/Family? They’re the shit. Their first three records were produced by the guy from Swans (Mi-chael Gira), and you can tell when they switched from him because their sound almost completely changed. Set ‘Em Wild, Set ‘Em Free is a totally different thing.

I always wanted to have an experiment where I took really popular songs that everyone hates, and produced them like crazy hipster bands.

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a/ I’ve heard people do that online, with Ke$ha and the like – and listeners responded really well to it.

t/ In so much new music, the feeling that it brings comes from the production, and I think that’s a new thing.

a/ Some genres of music are almost exclusively production. Dubstep comes to mind.

t/ I think one of the things Dubstep introduced is all-over-the-place sampling. That’s why I really love Skrillex.

There, I said it: He’s great. He’s fucking great, I don’t know why everyone hates him. The way that he puts things together is so amazing – making a song that sounds cohesive out of all these insane elements. I think the peo-ple that don’t like him only listen to the heavy, borderline obnoxious singles. I mean, I still like those, but yeah. *Laughs*

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