STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL ... · Skyville, outside Sydney, and I went to the Dutch Consul here in Sydney within a couple of days of arriving. I was lucky

STATE LIBRARY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA

J. D. SOMERVILLE ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION

OH 692/117

Full transcript of an interview with

GERRY SISSINGH

on 30 April 2003

by Rob Linn

Recording available on CD

Access for research: Unrestricted

Right to photocopy: Copies may be made for research and study

Right to quote or publish: Publication only with written permission from the State Library

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OH 692/117 GERRY SISSINGH

NOTES TO THE TRANSCRIPT

This transcript was donated to the State Library. It was not created by the J.D. Somerville Oral History Collection and does not necessarily conform to the Somerville Collection's policies for transcription.

Readers of this oral history transcript should bear in mind that it is a record of the spoken word and reflects the informal, conversational style that is inherent in such historical sources. The State Library is not responsible for the factual accuracy of the interview, nor for the views expressed therein. As with any historical source, these are for the reader to judge.

This transcript had not been proofread prior to donation to the State Library and has not yet been proofread since. Researchers are cautioned not to accept the spelling of proper names and unusual words and can expect to find typographical errors as well.

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OH 692/117 TAPE 1 - SIDE A

AUSTRALIAN WINE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT. Interview with Mr Gerry Sissingh on 30th April, 2003.

Interviewer: Rob Linn.

Gerry, where and when were you born?

GS: In 1936.

Whereabouts? In Holland?

GS: In Holland. 3rd September, 1936. Obviously I went through World

War 2 where schools were closed and what have you, and then the

recovery of World War 2.

Who were your parents, Gerry?

GS: My parents were Sissinghs, and they were involved in the wine

industry. They were major importers into the Netherlands.

Is that right? So what was your father’s Christian name?

GS: Siebold. And three sisters.

You had three sisters?

GS: Yes.

Now, this major importing firm, was it French wine largely?

GS: No. It was a total mix. They were general wine merchants.

Germany—Riesling and Moselle styles; France—mixed all over; and then

Portugal and Spain—port and sherries.

Of course. So they took the whole ambit?

GS: Yes.

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And did you grow up surrounded by wine, Gerry?

GS: I grew up surrounded by wine. When I was in that age group of tens

and twenties, my grandfather was still in charge of the wine company.

They had two branches. The old man spent a few days a week at the other

branch, away from the Head Office. And, yes, we drank wine at home from

early on.

Was it a Dutch tradition, as in a country like Italy, that children

right from a very early age be given wine, even with a bit of water or something like that?

GS: No, it was not a Dutch tradition, but we did it in our family. And I

have a tiny little story there.

The old man and I would share a bottle of Bordeaux, but I would get two

glasses and he’d get the other five or six—whatever was in the bottle. My

mother and the three girls would share a bottle of Moselle. Never anything

else. Moselle is a girl’s wine. Get them one, and get us a good Bordeaux.

So you always had the red?

GS: Yes.

Gerry, how did it come that you became involved with the wine industry yourself? Were you educated into it?

GS: Yes. After our high school—seventeen and a bit or so—we had to do

national service in those days. I did my one and a half years of national

service. By this stage my father and grandfather told me that when I came

back from that I would be sent all over Europe to work for wineries, or

exporters, that they were dealing with. So I would join the family

company. I wasn’t asked, I was told.

This is post war, of course.

GS: Yes.

So what was your training?

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GS: Just to go back to high school, I did not perform all that well. I was a

bit of a wild young man. I was sent to a boarding school, which was an

international boarding school, and there I did my Oxford entry exam, and

then found out—my parents hadn’t told me—that that was of no use to me

in Holland. I couldn’t get into uni or anything like that. Perhaps the

parents planned that. And then they sent me all over Europe.

Just learning about wine?

GS: In those days in Europe, although there were some scientific

colleges/schools, basically you learned winemaking as an apprentice,

working with a company that according to you had a reputation.

So where did you go, Gerry?

GS: Germany, two locations. One in the Moselle, one on the Rhine. The

Champagne district for a relatively short period. Beaujolais. Bordeaux for

a year and a half. Two vintages—more than a year and a half. And then

Portugal. Then I went back home at age twenty-three or so.

What were some of the pivotal moments for you in that European

experience?

GS: In the Netherlands, the only grapes they grow is for eating -

Yes, table grapes.

GS: - so I had never seen vineyards really. I’d never seen anyone turn a

grape into grape juice and ferment and what have you. So all these

companies that I worked for I went through the whole process with them.

A couple of weeks in the crushing area, then in the laboratory, and then

later on in the blending area, which is obviously what importers are

involved in.

So what happened when you returned home? Was it basically said,

‘Well, you’ve been blooded now, you’re into it?’

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GS: I asked what my function was going to be. What role would I play in

the company? And I got quite a shock. The answer from my grandfather

was, ‘You’re in charge of washing the bottles’. I looked at him and said,

‘What do you mean, in charge?’ They used to recycle. He said, ‘Well,

that’s how you start in the family company’. I did for a while, and then

they opened up a third branch and I became in charge of the third branch

in Amsterdam. So I was lucky. In 1960 I decided that I could not live with

them any longer, and came here.

So what did you come to in Australia? Was there any hope of work

here for you?

GS: No, I had no idea. I came to Australia in late January 1960 just to get

away from where I came from. (Laughs) And believe it or not, I saw a lot

of wine activities and what have you. I was in a migrants’ camp in

Skyville, outside Sydney, and I went to the Dutch Consul here in Sydney

within a couple of days of arriving. I was lucky because the receptionist

girl was one that I went to school with in Holland. And she said, ‘Yes, I

know someone that knows someone well in the wine industry. He’s a great

friend of the Lindeman family’. I got an interview, and two days later I had

a job.

Is that right?

GS: Yes.

So where did you have that first interview, Gerry?

GS: In a restaurant in the city at lunch time—(Laughs)—with the manager

of Lindemans wines, Bert Bear in those days. He talked about wine, and

asked me questions, and I had basic knowledge for those days. He

brought two bottles of wine with him, wrapped in a bit of newspaper, and

opened them both and poured me a glass of each and said, ‘Tell me what

you think of them’. One was a very nice French Sauterne-like with some

age but balanced and what have you, and the other one was a neutral

sweet as lolly—hopeless. So I said, ‘Well, I like this aged looking wine.

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That’s a nice wine. Good bottle age and got some caramel bottle aging,

but this other lolly sweet thing is even as bad as some of the German

ones’. And he said, ‘You’ve got the job because that’s a big seller for us.

Porphry Sauterne. (Laughter)

The second one was Porphry Sauterne, was it?

GS: And the first one was Reserve Hunter Porphry.

So you were right, in other words.

GS: Yes.

So what was your job to be at Lindemans?

GS: At Lindemans I became in charge of the laboratory and the

management of the bottling plant and cellar activities. Ray Kidd was then

the senior winemaker. So he sat in his office and told everyone what to

do. (Laughs) But I was doing it out there. About twelve months later Ray

Kidd was promoted to General Manager, and before that particular day

started, he asked me to help him move his office stuff and what have you

so he could move into the General Manager location. I said, ‘Can I move

my desk into your office?’ He said, ‘Yes, you’ve got that one’.

Well, that was very fortuitous of you to be asked to help him move.

What was Lindemans like at the time?

GS: Lindemans was a major player in New South Wales winemaking,

marketing and what have you. They also had a winery at Corowa where

we were starting to bring in grapes from the Riverland. We had introduced

other new brands, like Porphry Pearl, which were a great success. That

was in ‘61/62. Then late ‘62, Lindemans purchased Leo Burings and I

spent a considerable time telling, who is now a good friend—oh, Leo Buring

senior winemaker originally.

Not John Vickery?

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GS: John Vickery. Telling him to think the Lindeman way and no longer

the Leo Buring way. (Laughs) It took a few years to train John in that, but

he did eventually give in.

You would’ve had Shipster there then as well, wouldn’t you?

GS: Yes, but he was in the Sydney office. I went to the Barossa once a

fortnight for three or four days. Then in 1965 Lindemans took over Rouge

Homme as well. So I went there to tell them how to get modern, rather

than the old fashioned.

How did Rouge Homme strike you, because that was Lindemans—

the third player to buy into Coonawarra. Did you appreciate the style that was being produced there?

GS: Yes. Lindemans Wines by this stage, in the early 60’s and moving

onwards, had been buying wine all over from quality areas and had private

bin numbers—brands—in those areas. So we had already been buying

wine from Rouge Homme, or the Redman family, and in Clare from

Stanley.

Yes, that’s right.

GS: We used to buy about 80% of all the wine that Henschke made

because he had no marketing system until five years later when he said,

‘Sorry, you can’t have a drop because I know how to sell it’.

That’s Cyril.

GS: And Osborn was another one.

D’Arry Osborn?

GS: Yes.

So Lindemans, in effect, were one of the great wine brokers of the

time.

GS: Yes, but they were selling them on the Lindeman names.

Yes, of course. They were their own brokers in effect.

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GS: And they were introducing other area -

Yes. Would it be true to say, Gerry, that Lindemans were probably

for that era the most advanced of the companies—in their thinking

and marketing?

GS: I think they were. If I think back, and I now compare it with the

company that I consulted today—I now consult at Tyrrells wines and have

been doing so for the last nine years. You can’t, as a medium to large

sized company, live off wine from one district only. You’ve got to have that

flexibility, that portfolio.

Yes. And Lindemans had that at the time.

GS: And Lindemans created it during my time. I was for ten years with

Lindemans then, until 1970.

They were out of receivership by then, weren’t they?

GS: Yes. In ‘72 or ‘73, they were taken over by Philip Morris.

That’s correct.

GS: But I had left them in 1970 after the vintage, and was offered a

fantastic job by a newly formed company called The Rothbury Estate, which

was eleven shareholders with Len Evans in charge as Chairman, to start up

a new winery and a new venture.

Well, tell me about Rothbury, Gerry.

GS: Well, I joined Rothbury, as I said, in late 1970. We built a winery. It

was an architect who was a fantastic man. I was obviously terribly

involved in what equipment, what went in there. 1971 was not a great

year, but we made some nice low alcohol delicate Hunter Semillons. Red

wines were hopeless. We focused it on cellar door sales, but it was

competitive already in those days. And we started up one of the first

winery orientated mail order systems called the Rothbury Wine Society.

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That’s right.

GS: And originally we made only two wines, one white and one red. Then

there came varietal things, and then classifications, Black Label, Directors

Label, White Label, and now I’m with Rothbury again and I have my own

label range there, which is the upmarket label.

When you say you’re with Rothbury again, what do you mean by

that?

GS: I am on the selection committee. So I go there, let’s say, once every

month and have a wine tasting with the winemakers—senior and the

others. Neil McGuigan is, for instance, these days. Often a marketing

person of the Rothbury Wine Society because that’s what we look after—

not the Rothbury commercial range, but the Wine Society—to see whether

we can find a blend of high enough quality to suit that price bracket of that

label.

And Gerry, when you first went into the whole Rothbury venture,

was it a very exciting time?

GS: Yes, it was to me in that I was basically in charge of the activities.

That’s both winemaking, the whole part thereof, but also the starting of

wine marketing. There were some nice Board members, and it was not

until 1977 that they imported, because of the size they had grown to, a

General manager with whom I didn’t get on, so I left them after the

vintage 1979.

In that 1970’s period, what was the flavour of the wine industry at

the time? And why did Rothbury grow so quickly?

GS: There were eleven shareholders, and they were all famous Sydney

financially well off people, and Len Evans as an industry creator as well.

But there were also three other vineyard projects—Brokenback, Herleston

Park, and I can’t think of the other one, which all had friends of these

eleven in it as partners, and we were buying their grapes to make more

wine for ourselves. It grew very rapidly.

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Was that indicative of the trend of the industry in that period? That

Australians were beginning to appreciate wine in a new way?

GS: Yes, and I think it was the people visiting wineries—cellar door sales—

and us having a club that had some parties there, but we were also totally

happy to have them in Sydney and capital cities. And we were one of the

early wine clubs.

Well, Len himself had been one of the early promoters of wine,

hadn’t he?

GS: No doubt about it.

But I think in that era, too, people like Lake were beginning in the

Hunter and it was -

GS: Well, Lake about the same year—1970—started off his own little

winery, yes.

So that’s a growth time for the Hunter.

GS: Oh, yes.

Prior to that had it been very much almost a farming enterprise up

there for some of the people?

GS: Well, yes, it was. And a lot of land was hardly used for anything. But

because it was so close to Sydney, people could be involved in a

partnership thing so close to where they lived.

Were there some very memorable people for you from that era?

GS: Yes. There’s a picture hanging there. The screen is cracked. Rudi

Komon was a Hungarian migrant, very keen on wine, a wine judge in many

shows. He became a partner in it, and he was a creative character.

And other names are John McDowell of McDowell stores. Ted Gowling of

Gowlings stores in Sydney. And then some accounting bookkeeper people.

Necessary. What about in the technology of the time through the 70’s and then

into the 80’s, Gerry? Were there great advances?

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GS: Yes. I think it was not until the late 60’s that in Australia winemaking

became a scientific educational project. I obviously didn’t have that,

although I had some of the basics of it. I can remember, for instance,

coming to Australia and forever checking and worrying about the pH of

wine that we had never done in Germany. (Laughs) Possibly because it

was so bloody low that there was no need.

Nobody worried.

GS: But now, and in the late 60’s and 70’s, they've became very scientific.

I have to say, with great care, that some of our young winemakers, being

extremely scientific, are still very basic in gut feeling of what does it taste

like. (Laughs) And some of these young scientists need, after their

university education, another three or four years of working on site before

they can mix it all together.

In other words, so that it’s not just a sterile occupation, but there’s

some passion there.

GS: Yes. And memories. I saw this five years ago happening in a vintage

here, and now I know what I could be worried about.

I’ve heard this before from people, Gerry, talking about folk like

Jack Mann, that the memory is a tremendously important part of

winemaking.

GS: Yes. So, for instance, this year we have some areas in New South

Wales where there were bushfires weeks before the picking. If you pick

grapes that are cracked due to rain or whatever, and there had been

bushfires, you’re mad. Leave them there, they’re of no use to you. They

will taste terrible. And they are memories. The same as a bit of mould—

be it botrytis or whatever—on a red grape, stay away from it.

And Gerry, just going back a little, you said that when you came to

Lindemans that was the height of the Porphry Pearl boom. Was there a significant change in drinking patterns by the time you

came into Rothbury?

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GS: I go back to the Porphry Pearl days. When the pearl wines were

invented—and Lindemans was one and there were others—this drew non

wine drinkers into drinking at least a few glasses of wine from time to time,

and particularly in restaurants. I can, for instance, say that the job

interview I had in 1960 in a restaurant—it was called The Tulips, by the

way, in George Street in Sydney—the Lindeman person and I were the only

ones that had wine on the table at lunch time. Everyone else had bottles

of beer. Now you hardly see a bottle of beer other than while ordering

your main course.

Yes, I’ve seen changes. I have to say carefully so that you don’t

misunderstand me, financially well off Aussies had travelled overseas or

studied in England and they had picked up things there that their friends

didn’t have here, and they were very glad to see it and use Australian wine.

So in other words, there was this growth of travel and experience of different wine types that, in fact, the palate changed probably

over time.

GS: Yes, and many migrants came.

Of course.

GS: That may have done it as well.

Of course.

Now Gerry, you left Rothbury in ‘79. Where did you go then?

GS: I was offered a job by Lindemans Wines—Philip Morris—to rejoin them

and take charge of the one year old winery called Karadoc.

Well, Karadoc was one of the state of the art places at the time.

GS: My word it was. But also an innovative staff management team. I

went there as the senior winemaker/production manager. There was a

bean counter in charge of the figures, but I had four senior winemakers

and a whole heap of youngsters.

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So who were some of those people in the team, Gerry?

GS: Philip John. Geoff Hendricks. In the young team was a girl but she

became Cheryl Hendricks, married to Geoff. That’s just some names. And

we worked as a team together. You're in charge of the bulk wine handling,

and you do that, and you do that, and then we taste together.

Philip Laffer?

GS: Philip Laffer was in the Head Office, the senior winemaker.

Well, that would’ve been a pretty good team.

GS: And I had worked with Philip Laffer before as well. Then he was my junior.

Of course, in his early days.

GS: Yes. He started off in Corowa.

That’s right. I forgot. He was over there for a time, wasn’t he?

GS: That’s right.

So this would still be in the Ray Kidd era?

GS: Ray Kidd is there but he’s become an aged senior rather than

innovative gentleman. Do you know what I’m trying to say?

He’s become the administrator type.

GS: Plus, he did not like all that much—and I can understand that—the

very narrow minded view sometimes from the parent company, Philip

Morris.

Yes, of course. So in other words, these are Ray’s latter years with

the company.

GS: Yes.

So did you enjoy this experience, Gerry, at Karadoc?

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GS: Yes, I did. I have many great memories. The company was written

up by one wine writer once as a wine refinery, rather than a winery, and it

did not get a great write up, where we were a very modern. We set a team

up in 1980, the first vintage I did there, and it was only the third vintage

for the winery, and I gave each winemaker a wine of their choice and in the

price bracket of their choice, and we’d invent a label to do extremely well

with it in shows. And we did extremely well, and the word refinery was

eventually removed from the image.

So how important were wine shows to you? This was a question I

was coming to.

GS: Those days, the early 80’s, were the beginning of wine companies

being compulsive to having to win wine show awards, and they became

terribly important.

So for a winery like Karadoc, in other words, you had to prove its worth and that was the way you could do it.

GS: That’s right. And we made relatively small parcels of wine that would

pick up something in the show.

TAPE 1 - SIDE B

Gerry, were those years at Karadoc one of the high points of your

time in the industry, do you think?

GS: They were high points in people management and wine consistency

blending. As a Karadoc winemaker we had no involvement in marketing

philosophies or any PR work or any of that. So that dropped away, but the

other became interesting to lead a team of people, and that included the

laboratory people and the research with it and what have you.

So Gerry, at Rothbury you’d been heavily involved in marketing,

hadn’t you?

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GS: Yes. I was involved in everything.

Oh, okay, because of the nature of the place.

GS: I was involved in everything.

Did you miss that?

GS: Yes, but my reasons that I left Rothbury, as I said, was a new general

manager and I just couldn’t put up with it.

Now what about Lindemans at Karadoc? How long did you stay

there?

GS: I stayed for five years. Then my marriage looked like breaking up and

my now ex wife moved away from there with two kids to Sydney, and

ultimately Port Stephens, and I made a decision in 1985 to follow her and

fix up that problem. So I resigned from Lindemans. However, my

relationship was so good with Lindemans that I was approached by them

and said, ‘While you’re not having any work to do, why don’t you become a

rep for us for a while. You know, at least you’d have income’. I accepted

that, and I covered the north coast of New South Wales as a rep, including

some PR work and so on. And in 1987, the winemaker at Lindemans in the

Hunter resigned and I applied for the job, and I got the job as winemaker

at Ben Ean.

So you came back to the Hunter again.

GS: I came back to the Hunter.

Well, what was Ben Ean like in those days when you returned?

GS: There’s the building. Ben Ean was making substantial volumes—

largest volumes for a Hunter winemaker—of high quality under different

Hunter bin numbers, and doing extremely well in the show system and was

a leading Hunter brand.

So that was quite a challenge for you.

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GS: I enjoyed it.

How long did that last, Gerry?

GS: Until 1990—after the vintage 1990—when Southcorp took over and I

got the boot. I was stupid enough to give them the car keys and I had to

move out of the house. I lived in a company house. However, Hungerford

Hill was taken over by Seppelts and three weeks later I had a job. They

did exactly the same. Booted everyone out. I got on with the Seppelt

company quite well, and I got the job. However, twelve months later

Seppelts was taken over by Southcorp and I copped it again in 1991.

Did you take the car keys this time?

GS: No. I had learnt. You keep the car keys for at least three months.

Okay.

GS: Then I moved here.

This is to Mosman.

GS: Yes. I was single again by that stage, not knowing quite what to do,

but luckily kids were grown up. I started off my driving school. I became

an active member of the New South Wales Wine Press Club, of which I’m

the Treasurer these days. I’m also the designer of the New South Wales

Wine Award Show, which is a show quite exclusive of its own in Australia.

Others are following us a tiny bit because we have whole new ideas. And

Murray Tyrrell, a good friend, offered me a consulting job. He was a

partner in Rothbury, so I came on the tasting panel with Rothbury, and still

do that. And others started offering, so I do consulting scattered over.

Also some wine show judging, Wine Press Club, and for those that lose

their licence, I help them get it back with my driving school.

You mean for the winemakers who do. (Laughs)

GS: I do wine appreciation classes.

That’s right.

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GS: For the last twelve years. Two nights a week.

And is there still growing an interest in that, Gerry?

GS: Yes. There’s a large number of people attending wine appreciation

classes but there are also a large number of wine appreciation—like

colleges. The one I do here at the Mosman community college is adult

education. I do Monday and Tuesday nights. A class is eight weeks. And

we taste six wines every night.

Gerry, over your years in the industry, were there times that you

saw political and economic factors really impact on you in the

industry?

GS: I think I have seen for many, many years, and I still see it to some

degree now, wine made from hungry grape growers in irrigation areas that

are overcropped and what have you, and they want to then compete at

that price bracket there. That's in the wine part.

I’ve seen a huge change in the wholesaling/retailing area. Wholesaling

now is very organised, but also somewhat difficult to understand. An

article in the paper this weekend reports that 80% of the Grange to be

released shortly goes to LiquorLand and Woolworths because they are the

biggest buyer of the total dollar value of the company. I see that.

I now see, regretfully, too many wineries and brands around Australia, so

they can’t all get on the shelves. And how do you do that? Give five dozen

away to get one on the shelf? I think we’re going through that. Although

on the other hand, I’ve seen the fantastic success in the export market

where we’ve grown from basically nothing in 1960 to what we are, and we

are a major, major player in the world. Whether we can maintain that

against countries like South Africa and South America is to be seen, but we

are doing wonderfully well at the moment.

Did you have a personal experience with export, Gerry?

GS: No. I suppose I can communicate with people that are in the wine

industry reasonably well, and Lindemans made a full attempt of bringing all

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the overseas visitors to, for instance, Karadoc while I was there, and the

Hunter while I was there. And I go to Melbourne or Sydney to be at

functions. I could say now we used the word Chablis on this, but what

we’re really saying is that it is an austere, dry, low alcohol wine, as those

Chablis’ in France are, and that sort of thing.

So in other words, you were hands-on face to face with the people?

GS: Yes.

Now the one thing you would’ve seen a difference in though is the

marketing of wine. Would that be true?

GS: Yes. And I still see an interesting and alarming thing, that if a

company is a good marketer, then they put quality wine in an attempt to

put it in a price bracket, $20 to $30, or $30 and over. But unfortunately

their neighbour who makes perhaps very, very similar wine to them is a

shocking marketing company—and I won’t mention brands so don’t

misunderstand me—and for very similar wine they get $9.99 a bottle. And

that’s dreadful to see.

Yes. And it is happening.

GS: Yes.

It is happening. So Gerry, over all your time in the industry, just think for a minute

about the major changes you saw. What would they be?

GS: One has been the consumption of wine. When I came here we were

drinking six litres per head of population. We’re now drinking twenty, as

you’re aware.

Yes.

GS: And of that six litres, fortified wines were close to four. Sauterne

Moselle style wines were one and a half, and quality table wine was a very,

very small part. It was a very small part of the population that accepted

that. But I think BYO restaurants, good modern marketing by wine

20

companies—and now I can only say that I seldom see a youngster in a

restaurant not having a glass of wine.

So that’s one change, Gerry. Are there others that you noticed?

GS: In marketing?

Just generally in the industry.

GS: I think that Australian people are financially careful people, so they

still drink Monday to Friday wine and a special wine for when they take

someone out. Whereas in many European countries, you either drink good

stuff all the time, or all the time the other, whereas Australians are quite

willing to drink and try a bit.

And now I give you a secret, and it is for no other reason other than I want

to keep up with quality of wine. I still buy every six weeks or so a cask of

white wine just to see what that brand is like at the moment. Just to keep

in touch with the differences.

And on the whole there are very few very bad ones. Most of them

are okay.

GS: Yes. That’s in the case of white wine.

Yes.

GS: In the case of red wine I see some pretty average stuff.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

So Gerry, would you like to talk to me a little bit about the Wine

Press Club, because that’s something that you’re very involved with now.

GS: Yes, I’m very much involved.

The Treasurer.

GS: New South Wales Wine Press Club is a body that celebrates its

twenty-fifth birthday later on this year. John Stanford was one of the early

people in it, who unfortunately just recently died.

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Yes, I heard that.

GS: And the idea was to get wine writers and winemakers to exchange

thoughts and ideas, and that includes a good dinner party and what have

you.

To give you an example, in New South Wales we started up our own wine

show, known as the New South Wales Wine Awards, now six years ago. I

was one of the strong people there because I felt that there was something

quite wrong in many of the existing Australian wine shows. I was able to

convince the Wine Press Club committee members that, yes, an exhibitor

should not be a judge, and yes, little wineries compete against big wineries

in the same class, but the volume they require is related to the tonnage

they crush. And secondly, the wine must be for sale in a certain volume at

the time of the announcement of the awards. It’s not a dozen of wine that

they have left in the cellar from ten years ago.

This is from your Lindemans days, isn’t it? (Laughs)

GS: And it is working very well.

In other words, this is true retail wine.

GS: This is seeing what wines about, it does exist, it is for sale in a certain

volume, and the little winery competes with the big one.

So it’s not just a show product, in other words.

GS: That’s right.

And that’s been greeted with good acclaim?

GS: Yes, it has. 160 wineries entered last year. It's got to be New South

Wales wine, grown in New South Wales, as by the rules. 160 out of about

300, so that means that half the wine industry entered. And we’re using

some New South Wales people as wine judges. They never get more than

twenty-five wines in a tasting, and we ask them to push forward the best—

roughly—30%. They then get tasted against the others, again never

bigger than twenty-five. That’s how we work our way to the best wine of

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the young class, mature class whites, young mature red, sparkling, and

dessert sweet wines—whatever we want to call it. Then we find the best

wine of each section, the best wine of the total show, and we do quite a bit

of promotion for the top forty out of the whole range.

So in other words, your panels aren’t tasting huge volumes.

GS: No.

It’s a restricted tasting.

GS: Yes.

That would be fantastic(?).

GS: It is much, much better. It's much easier to taste twenty-five wines

five or six times a day, than 120 once.

I can relate to that.

Gerry, now just looking back over all the years that you’ve served the industry, what have been the really enjoyable moments for

you? What were the most enjoyable moments, or moment?

GS: When I was actively involved as a winemaker, totally part of it, no

doubt winning top awards in the wine show and being better than the

fellow up the road, or whatever, is a great personal bit of satisfaction. Now

that I am, let’s call it, semi-retired, but still fairly active, I get great

pleasure out of recognition. People saying, ‘Hey, I met you eight years ago

and we did so and so and so and so’.

I went to a Wine Press Club dinner on Monday night, which was matching

Asian food with Australian wine or beer. And they had different types of

Asian food. Halfway through I had to make a statement as I felt that I

liked the food, I like beer, I liked the wine, but you can’t eat them together

because the food kills the flavours of the wine. And someone else stood up

and said, ‘Gerry, you said exactly the same thing ten years ago’.

(Laughter)

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I’m a keen oyster person. We had some oysters with some Asian dressing

over it. I never tasted the oysters. And the moment I swallowed it, I

needed a glass of water to dry the burning system.

I can understand that. They're very powerful flavours. Very

powerful.

Well, Gerry, is there anything else that you'd like to add to what

we've been through today, about your life?

GS: I’ve enjoyed working in Australia, which is now totally my country.

I’ve got kids, grandchildren, great grandchildren. I’ve got an Aussie

passport as well. A country where I saw a wine industry that was very

basic—that doesn't mean bad wine, but very basic fortified and sweet and

what have you—grow to a fairly sophisticated but open minded wine

consuming population. And in such a relatively short period, like forty plus

years. Or it even happened in thirty years.

I greatly support those that run wine appreciation courses/classes. It is

important to keep on educating, otherwise we can lose them again. You've

got to educate young people, let's say from fifteen onwards, that wine is

part of your life style. The same as when you go out at night, you wear a

jacket and a tie, and that's not being old fashioned. That is still part of our

sophisticated being.

Well, Gerry, thank you so much for talking today. It's been

wonderful.

GS: Pleasure.