K: What would you like to talk about? S: Pride. K: Pride. Are you proud? S: At times. K: Sometimes. Why? What are you proud about? S: Achieving something. K: Achieving. What have you achieved? Or you are admiring people who have achieved or do you want to achieve? Is that what you want to talk about - pride, achievement, success, money position, power. Is that what you all want? Probably you all do. Don't fool yourself, don't deceive yourself you all want to have those things. S: No, sir, we all want it because in this world we can't live without those things. K: In these times, the boy says, we can't live without those things. How do you know? S: Anywhere you see a poor man K: You come out here! S: Anywhere you see a poor man, or anything, sir they'll argue if you don't give them anything, or if you try to make them a nice man,
This document is posted to help you gain knowledge. Please leave a comment to let me know what you think about it! Share it to your friends and learn new things together.
Transcript
�K: What would you liketo talk about?
S: Pride.
K: Pride.
Are you proud?S: At times.
K: Sometimes. Why?
What are you proud about?
S: Achieving something.
K: Achieving.
What have you achieved?
Or you are admiringpeople who have achieved
or do you want to achieve?
Is that what you want to talk about -pride, achievement, success, money
position, power.Is that what you all want?
Probably you all do.
Don't fool yourself,don't deceive yourself
you all want to havethose things.
S: No, sir, we all want itbecause in this world
we can't livewithout those things.
K: In these times, the boy says,we can't live without those things.
How do you know?S: Anywhere you see a poor man
K: You come out here!
S: Anywhere you see a poorman, or anything, sir
they'll argue if you don't givethem anything, or if you try
to make them a nice man,
they won't give you any respect.
K: So what do you want to be?
S: Anything which we canachieve enough respect
for living a happy life,but not too much respect.
K: You are quite right -not too much respect
but a fairly comfortable life,and a happy life. Is that it?
S: Yes.
K: Is that what you want?S: Yes.
K: Then go after it.
S: Sir, but it is not so easyunless you try and achieve it.
K: Any other questions?
S: What is the difference betweenmeditation and concentration?
S: What is the difference betweenmeditation and concentration?
K: I understood.
K: Do you really want to talkabout that, or is it a game
or just fun totalk about something
I may be interested in,is that it?
Do you really want to know whatis meditation and concentration?
All right, sir.
If you really wantto talk about that
will you pay attentionto what I am going to say?
S: Yes, sir.
K: Don't say, 'Yes,sir', and fidget.
Do you really wantto talk about it?
If you do it is a very,very serious subject.
What do you thinkis concentration?
S: Something which you reallywant to think about, sir.
Think about deeply, go into itdeeply, think about it deeply.
K: Think about it deeply.S: Think about it deeply.
K: Think about it deeply- what do you mean by that?
S: Something which wewant to keep our minds on.
K: Come over here!
Something you want tokeep you mind on.
Right?
Have you tried it?
You want to look at thoseflowers, or your book
or what your educatoris saying.
Have you ever looked at it verycarefully, at those flowers
what the teacher istelling you, listen to him
and concentrate on a book,have you?
S: Sometimes.K: Sometimes.
When does that happen?
When you like it - right?S: Yes.
K: Now, when you like something youput your attention, your thought
your energy in observing it.Right?
And that is generallycalled concentration.
That is, you concentrate on thebook you are reading - right?
or on something that youare looking very carefully
at those flowers -right?
or what your friend, or yourteacher is telling you. Right?
S: Yes.
K: Have you ever watchedvery carefully
concentrated onsomething for a long time?
Not for a second or twobut for a long time
Have you done it?
S: I don't know, sir.K: Yes, try it now.
Try now to listen very carefullyto what somebody is saying to you
or look at thoseflowers for a long time
not allow any otherthought to come in.
That's what concentrationmeans, focusing
giving all yourattention to something
that you are listeningto or reading a book
or watching something, alizard going across the wall.
Will you do it,are you doing it now?
S: Yes.K: You are? Good!
Now, when that takes placewhat happens?
S: We understand it.
K: Not only you understandbut what is happening?
I'll explain to you presently,you think it out for yourself.
Where do you come from?
S: Bangalore.K: Bangalore, good.
I have got two boys- now two girls?
Now, he wants to know what is thedifference between concentration
and meditation.
Right?
You don't know the word 'meditation',do you, what it means? No.
Nor do you know the meaningof the word 'concentration'?
S: Now I think I know.K: Now you know
because I have pointedit out to you.
So concentration means 'focusing yourthought, your energy on something'.
S: Sir(inaudible)
K: Come over here!
Move a bit so that we giveher more room.
She is a big girl. Right?She is a big girl.
S: But isn't it difficult toconcentrate on something
without any thoughtin your mind?
K: That's it. Is it not difficult- listen to it carefully
is it not difficult toconcentrate on something
without thoughts coming in?
S: I think it is.
K: It is difficult, isn't it?
So, then what do you do?
S: We try and keep theother thoughts away.
K: Away. Then who keeps the -I won't make it complicated for you.
So, you concentrate on a bookand other thoughts come in.
Right?S: Yes.
K: Then what do you do?
S: You try to keep them away.
K: Yes, you try to pushother thoughts away.
Now what goes onin that process?
I am concentrating onthis, thoughts come in
then I try to pushthem away
and then thoughts come in.
So I keep this, don't I?
Right?S: Yes.
K: Are you listeningto what I am saying?
If you are not interesteddon't bother.
S: I am thinking of an answerwhich you could give correctly.
K: I can't understand you.
S: I am thinking of an answer whichyou could give correctly for it.
K: Look, sir, I was telling you,when you concentrate on something
other thoughts come in.Right?
Then you try to pushthose thoughts away
and then you tryto concentrate.
So there is this goingon all the time. Right?
S: Why do those thoughtscome in?
K: Wait, wait, I amcoming to that presently.
First see what is happening.
You want to concentrateon something
then thoughts come in andthen you push them out
and again thoughts come inand again you push them out.
So, you really are notconcentrating, are you?
Because thoughts comein and disturb you.
Now, he asked,why do thoughts come in.
Right?S: Yes.
K: You tell me why thoughtscome in. I will tell you.
S: I think it is because wethink about those things.
Because when we are doingsomething something else happens
and you think about it.
K: Yes, that is, youare thinking about this
you are also thinking
about something else.
Is that it?S: Yes.
K: Why does this happen?
S: Sir, if you are thinking thatwhile you are concentrating
K: Come and sit here!
Sorry, three boys and a girl.
S: Sir, as you tryto concentrate
you keep thinking that I shouldnot allow thoughts to come in
and so they come in.K: Yes, why do they come in?
S: Because you keepthinking about them.
K: But you are alsothinking about this.
S: Because we aresuppressing them.
K: That's right.
You have got it.
You have understood whatyou have said?
Not quite.
You are trying to concentrate onthis, other thoughts come in
then you try to suppress thoughts,only the other thoughts except this.
Right? So what ishappening when you suppress?
I suppressI am uncomfortable
I have eaten bad food,and I feel
and I tryto suppress my pain.
Why do you do that, why do you have
suppressions, why do you suppress?
S: Because we thinkit will be nicer
if you suppressthey won't come again
so you suppress it.K: That's right.
So, he says, when you suppressthem they come back again.
So it is futile to suppress.Right?
It would be wrong tosuppress, futile to suppress.
Then what will you do?
S: If you are really thinking aboutsomething very seriously, sir
there are no other thoughts.
K: But other thoughtscome in, old boy.
S: But when you are really thinkingwithout any other things
why should they come in?
K: Now wouldn't you try tounderstand why thoughts are always
moving back and forth?Right?
Wouldn't you ask that question?
S: Sir
Because we suppress thoughtscome in and we can't control them
and we loseour concentration.
So what should we do because,sir, is it possible that
if we just leave it the otherthoughts will go by themselves?
K: I haven't quitegrasped it, have you?
S: If you don't do anythingwith the other thoughts
if you don't pay attentionto them, will they go away?
Is that what you are saying?
K: Would you come up here?
Come up here, sit uphere, don't be nervous.
This is a very complexsubject, isn't it?
Most people, grown-up people, youngpeople, are told from childhood
are you listening,listen carefully
from childhood you aretold to concentrate. Right?
You want to look out of thewindow and the teacher says
'Concentrate on your book'.
But you are really interested inwatching that lizard on that wall.
Right?
And the teacher says, 'Don'tlook, pay attention to the book'.
So from childhood you areinterested in watching the lizard
but the teacher says,'Do this'.
S: Yes.
K: Now, if I were yourteacher I would say
'Let's both of us look at thatlizard' - you understand?
Not try to force youto look at the book.
You have understoodwhat I am saying?
S: Yes, sir.
K: That is, you are watching thatlizard - there is no lizard here!
And your interest is inthat lizard, not in the book.
So I, as a teacher, would tell you,'Let both of us watch that lizard
very very carefully, seehow it sticks to the wall
how many claws it has
see the head,see the eyes'.
Right?S: Yes, sir.
K: I would help you to watchmuch more that than the book.
S: Sir, but I've got a question.K: What?
S: If the teacher, orin a class
children get distractedat different times
like I might getdistracted at a certain time
and another person mightget distracted at another time.
And if the teacher tends toall our distractions, sir
how will she cover the portion?K: I am going to show you.
You are all so veryclever here, aren't you?
K: Where do you come from?S: Madras.
S: My parents live in Zambia.
K: First of all,I have no distractions.
Don't call it distractions.
What is important isthat you watch
pay attention,listen, that's important.
But there are no distractions.
Don't use the word'distraction'. Right?
Now, wait a minute, I helpyou to watch that lizard
or I help you to watch that boysitting over there being restless
fiddling with his fingers.Right?
What I am helping you - nothelping - what I am showing you
is when you payattention to something
whether itis right or wrong
then you can payattention to the book.
You have got it?S: Yes, sir.
K: Are you sure?S: Yes, sir.
K: That is, when you payattention to that lizard
you have learntthe art of attention.
And I am going to helpall the boys
or twenty or fifteen boyswith me to pay attention.
And when there is attentionthere is no distraction.
S: Then why don'tteachers do that, sir?
Suppose we getdistracted in the class.
K: There is no distraction,don't call it distraction.
S: Suppose we want
to watch something
then why don't the teachershelp us to watch that thing?
K: Ask them.
I am telling you- come over here
Two girls. Right.
Come up here,that's better!
All right?S: Yes, sir.
K: You are not shy?S: No, sir.
K: That's better.
You are asking why don't yourteachers tell you all this.
Right?S: Yes, sir.
K: Why don't they tell you?
S: Sir, I think they wantto finish their particular
whatever theywanted to teach us.
K: That's right.They want to get it over.
They are bored, you are bored.Right?
And they want to quicklyfinish what they have to say
and get on to the nextsubject, or the next class.
So they are boredwith teaching.
Right?
Now find out from themwhy they are bored
why they wantto finish quickly
why don't they helpyou to pay attention?
You understand?
If you pay attentionto that lizard
then you have learntthe art of attention.
Right?Have you got it?
Then you can pay attention to thebook, then there is no distraction.
S: ButK: Wait, wait, wait, old boy.
I haven't finished.
If I were your teacher I wouldpoint out to you very carefully
what attention is.Right?
Attention is to pay complete energy,attention, to what you are watching.
Right?
And if you learn that you can learnhow to pay attention to your book.
S: Yes, sir.
S: You might be interestedin the lizard only
and you mightnot like studying
you won't beinterested in your studies.
K: Somebody mightnot like to study.
Then don't study.S: Sir, then you can keep
K: Find out, sir, find out.
Learn. Find out why youdon't want to read books.
Now, you listen to me.
We have talked about concentration,that is, you are thinking
paying attention to something,then other thoughts come in
and you pushthose thoughts out.
And so there is always this conflict- wanting to pay attention to that
thoughts come in, and so there isconstant chattering of the brain
chattering, chattering,chattering. Right? Got it?
Now, meditation,the word 'meditation'
you know what that word is,you have heard about it?
S: Yes, sir.
K: Meditation in Englishmeans also 'to measure'.
Right? 'To measure'.
As in Sanskrit, if you ask
S: Radhikaji.K: Radhikaji.
By Jove, thank youfor helping me
If you ask Radhikaji,she will tell you
'ma' is also 'tomeasure' in Sanskrit.
So meditation alsomeans 'to measure'.
Now, without measurement there isno technological advancement at all.
Agree? See that?
Do you see all this,what I am saying?
S: I didn't understandthat word which you said.
K: You don't understand
the word I am using?
S: Yes.K: I am using 'to measure'.
You have a tape measure, haven't you?S: Yes.
K: Meditation meansalso 'measurement'.
S: I think he doesn't understand theword 'technology', technological.
K: Ah, you don't understandthe word 'technology'?
Technique - to do something, say forinstance you want to build a car
and you must know all theparts, put them together
they are allworking together.
I have dismantled a car,put it all to pieces
and then put it alltogether hoping it will work.
But it did work.Right?
Learning about all the machinery, howit works, what are its components
what are its measurements
its metallic strengthand so on, all that
learning about that iscalled technology, some of it.
Now, meditation,concentration, for me
are two entirelydifferent things.
S: Sir, quite often you concentratewithout even trying to concentrate.
Like you will be doing something,you don't need to concentrate
you will be concentrating.
K: You can do something
if you love something youdon't have to concentrate.
Have you understood that?S: Yes, sir.
K: If you love somethingthere is no concentration.