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Public Input No. 166-NFPA 25-2017 [ Global Input ]
Remove all references to the NFPA 25 Handbook, Water-Based Fire
Protection SystemsHandbook including but not limited to all or
portions of:A.5.3.3, A.6.3.1, A.7.3.1, A.7.3.2, A.8.3.2, A.8.3.3,
A.8.3.6.4, A.9.3, A.9.3.3, A.9.3.4, A.9.3.5, A.9.5.3and H.1.1.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The text of the handbook is not reviewed by the technical
committee and should not be referenced by the annex.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Robert UpsonOrganization: National Fire
Sprinkler AssociationAffilliation: NFSA Engineering and Standards
CommitteeStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27
10:07:17 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-1-NFPA 25-2017Statement: The text of the handbook
is not reviewed by the technical committee and should not be
referenced by
the annex. The reference to the NFPA 25 Handbook has been
relocated to H.2.1 as an informationreference.
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Public Input No. 3-NFPA 25-2017 [ Global Input ]
1. Add a new paragraph 6.3.1.1.2 to read as follows:
6.3.1.1.2 Pressure gauges maintained in accordance with
8.3.3.2.2 shall be provided for the test.2. Revise paragraph
6.3.1.6.2 to read as follows:
6.3.1.6.2 Pressure gauges maintained in accordance with Chapter
13 shall be provided for the test.
Additional Proposed Changes
File Name Description ApprovedTIA_25_17_1_-_TIA_25_17_1.pdf
TIA_25_17_1
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
NOTE: This public input originates from Tentative Interim
Amendment No. 17-1 (Log 1221) issued by the Standards Council on
August 4, 2016 and per the NFPA Regs., needs to be reconsidered by
the Technical Committee for the next edition of the Document.
Substantiation. The committee statement for SR-16 stated: The
accuracy for the measuring devices used in the 5 year waterflow
test should be comparable to that for a fire pump flow test and not
just equivalent to the minimum level accepted on a sprinkler system
gauge. Unfortunately, the change was made to gauges required by
section 6.3.1.6.2 that apply only to the main drain test. 6.3.1.6 A
main drain test shall be performed on all standpipe systems with
automatic water supplies in accordance with the requirements of
Chapter 13. The current change now requires a standpipe main drain
test to use gauges with an accuracy of 1% whereas all other systems
have a 3% allowance. Additionally, the 5-year water flow test still
allows an accuracy of only 3%. Emergency Nature. The NFPA Standard
contains an error or an omission that was overlooked during a
regular revision process.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter FullName: Tc On Inm-Aaa
Organization: NFPA
Affilliation: TC on Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of
Water-BasedSystemsStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue
Feb 14 12:15:45 EST 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-2-NFPA 25-2017Statement: NOTE: This public input
originates from Tentative Interim Amendment No. 17-1 (Log 1221)
issued by
the Standards Council on August 4, 2016 and per the NFPA Regs.,
needs to be reconsidered by theTechnical Committee for the next
edition of the Document.
Substantiation. The committee statement for SR-16 stated: The
accuracy for the measuring devicesused in the 5 year waterflow test
should be comparable to that for a fire pump flow test and not
justequivalent to the minimum level accepted on a sprinkler system
gauge. Unfortunately, the changewas made to gauges required by
section 6.3.1.6.2 that apply only to the main drain test. 6.3.1.6
A
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main drain test shall be performed on all standpipe systems with
automatic water supplies inaccordance with the requirements of
Chapter 13. The current change now requires a standpipe maindrain
test to use gauges with an accuracy of 1% whereas all other systems
have a 3% allowance.Additionally, the 5-year water flow test still
allows an accuracy of only 3%. Emergency Nature. TheNFPA Standard
contains an error or an omission that was overlooked during a
regular revisionprocess.
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Tentative Interim Amendment
NFPA® 25
Standard for the Inspection, Testing and Maintenance of
Water-Based Fire Protection Systems
2017 Edition
Reference: 6.3.1.1.2 (New) and 6.3.1.6.2 TIA 17-1 (SC 16-8-10 /
TIA Log #1221) Note: Text of the TIA was issued and approved for
incorporation into the document prior to printing. 1. Add a new
paragraph 6.3.1.1.2 to read as follows:
6.3.1.1.2 Pressure gauges maintained in accordance with
8.3.3.2.2 shall be provided for the test. 2. Revise paragraph
6.3.1.6.2 to read as follows:
6.3.1.6.2 Pressure gauges maintained in accordance with Chapter
13 shall be provided for the test. Issue Date: August 4, 2016
Effective Date: August 24, 2016
(Note: For further information on NFPA Codes and Standards,
please see www.nfpa.org/docinfo) Copyright © 2016 All Rights
Reserved
NATIONAL FIRE PROTECTION ASSOCIATION
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Public Input No. 56-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 1.1 [Excluding
any Sub-Sections] ]
This document establishes the minimum requirements for the
periodic inspection, testing, and maintenanceof properly installed
water-based fire protection systems and the actions to undertake
when changes inoccupancy, use, process, materials, hazard, or water
supply that potentially impact the performance of thewater-based
system are planned or identified.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
In 1.1.3 under system types, we state this Standard "applies to
fire protection systems that have been properly installed with
generally accepted practices." I believe it to be important and not
redundant to note this in the scope.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: David BaronOrganization: Global Fire
Protection CompanyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri
Apr 28 10:39:58 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Per NFPA 25 it is not the responsibility of the
inspector to determine if the system is properly installed,it is
assumed that the system has been properly installed as noted in
1.1.3.
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Public Input No. 112-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 1.1.1 [Excluding
any Sub-Sections] ]
This standard does not address all of the inspection, testing,
and maintenance of the electrical componentsof the automatic fire
detection equipment used to activate preaction and deluge systems
that are addressedby NFPA 72 Sprinkler system components that are
interconnected with a fire alarm system shall bepermitted to be
inspected, tested, and maintained simultaneously in accordance with
this standardand NFPA 72 ?? .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The current language in 1.1.1 is only applicable to deluge and
preaction systems. However, 1.1.1.2 and A.1.1.1.2 imply that any
inspection and/or test of an electronic device that functions as a
component of both the sprinkler system and the fire alarm system
must comply with both NFPA 25 and NFPA 72. The proposed changes
will address all devices that are common to both NFPA 25 and NFPA
72.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 113-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No. A.1.1.1.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Fri Jun 16 11:27:43 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The existing wording already allows simultaneous
testing.
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Public Input No. 11-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 1.1.2.1
]
1.1.2.1.1 This standard shall not apply to the inspection,
testing and maintenance of dry hydrants.
A.1.1.2.1.1 Inspection, testing and maintenance of dry hydrants
is under the scope of NFPA 1142, Standardon Water Supplies for
Suburban and Rural Fire Firefighting.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
In PI no 35 for the 2017 edition of NFPA 25, the TC indicate
that "dry hydrants are not typically considered part of a water
based fire protection system." and "NFPA 1142 already addresses ITM
of these hydrant types." This PI to the 2020 edition clarifies this
scope issue by inserting new language in the core text and annex
pointing the user to NFPA 1142 for ITM of dry hydrants. This scope
issue should be clearly called out in the front of NFPA 25 as there
is confusion by some AHJs as to if NFPA 25 applies to dry
hydrants.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 12-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 3.3.12.1]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Anthony ApfelbeckOrganization: Altamonte
Springs Building/Fire Safety DivisionStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri Mar 03 08:12:23 EST
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-4-NFPA 25-2017Statement: In PI no 35 for the 2017
edition of NFPA 25, the TC indicate that "dry hydrants are not
typically
considered part of a water based fire protection system." and
"NFPA 1142 already addresses ITM ofthese hydrant types." This PI to
the 2020 edition clarifies this scope issue by inserting new
languagein the core text and annex pointing the user to NFPA 1142
for ITM of dry hydrants. This scope issueshould be clearly called
out in the front of NFPA 25 as there is confusion by some AHJs as
to if NFPA25 applies to dry hydrants.
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Public Input No. 13-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 1.3.1 ]
1.3.1.1
Compliance with subsequent editions of this standard shall be
considered evidence of compliance with theAHJ's adopted edition of
this standard.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Contractors performing ITM services are often confronted by
numerous jurisdictions in their service area that may have adopted
differing editions of NFPA 25. Keeping staff trained on three, four
or even five differing editions of NFPA 25 and completing the
associated documentation required by differing editions is an
almost an impossible expectation. These complications can also
create liability exposures for contractors whey they may not
utilize the specific edition of NFPA 25 that a jurisdiction had
adopted. If a contractor chooses to comply with the most current
published edition of NFPA 25, even though it is not adopted by the
AHJ, there is no reason that the most current edition of NFPA 25
should not be accepted as evidence of compliance to an adopted
previous edition of NFPA 25. This change memorializes this concept
in the standard to provide liability protection to the contractor
and specific guidance to the AHJ that this practice is allowed. The
language in the current 1.3.1 does not go far enough in that it
does not mandate subsequent edition acceptance, it only allows an
AHJ to accepts subsequent editions. Most AHJ's are not going to
accept the current 1.3.1 language to allow this as it requires
their discretion and risk. Therefore, the language in this PI is
necessary in order to move this concept forward.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 14-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No. A.1.3.1]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Anthony ApfelbeckOrganization: Altamonte
Springs Building/Fire Safety DivisionStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri Mar 03 10:45:56 EST
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This is in accordance with Standard Council agenda
item number 17-8-57.
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Public Input No. 18-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 2.1 ]
2.1 General.
The documents or portions thereof listed in this chapter are
referenced within this standard and shall beconsidered part of the
requirements of this document.
(1) Documents referenced in this chaper or portion of such
documents shall only be applicable to theextent called for within
other chapters of this standard.
(2) Where the requirements of a reference code or standard
differ from the requirements of this standard,the requirements of
this standard shall govern.
A.2.1 (1) For example, Chapter 2 references the NFPA 13 2016
edition. Such reference does not meanthat all buildings must comply
with the 2016 edition of NFPA 13. The 2016 edition of NFPA 13 is
onlyapplicable when specifically referenced by a section in NFPA
25.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
For the 2017 edition of NFPA 25, the TC accepted "Retroactivity"
language in 2.1.1 for the first draft and then removed the language
at the second draft. The issue raised originally in PI 14 25-201
still remains....AHJs, and others, are sometimes confused by the
appropriate applicability of the referenced standards listed in
Chapter 2. As currently written, the language in section 2.1 could
be construed to adopt all of the listed reference standards and
make them applicable to an existing system during the course of an
NFPA 25 inspection. This is clearly not the intent. The proposed
language in this PI attempts to clarify this issue by dealing with
the referenced standard in the same way that NFPA 101 and NFPA 1
deals with the issue. That is, the referenced standards are only
applicable when NFPA 25 specifically points the user to refer to a
section in a referenced standard. The presence of a reference
standard being listed in Chapter 2 does not mean the entire
reference standard is adopted as part of NFPA 25. This will provide
clarity to the AHJ and also potentially remove a point of liability
contention that could be made against a contractor conducting an
NFPA 25 inspection.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Anthony ApfelbeckOrganization: Altamonte
Springs Building/Fire Safety DivisionStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri Mar 03 14:07:07 EST
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The proposed language addresses future editions and
this has been addressed by Standard Councilagenda item 17-8-57.
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Public Input No. 159-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 3.3.2
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENT3.3.1 Automated Inspection and Testing. The
performance of inspections and tests at a distant locationfrom the
system or component being inspected or tested through the use of
electronic devices or equipmentinstalled for the purpose.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
This term is used in the document, but not defined. This
definition has been included in the most recent revision cycles of
NFPA 13, NFPA 20, and NFPA 14.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 117-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 4.6.6.6] Section using the term.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Mon Jun 26 22:43:52 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-5-NFPA 25-2017Statement: This term is used in the
document, but not defined. This definition has been included in the
most
recent revision cycles of NFPA 13, NFPA 20, and NFPA 14.
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Public Input No. 110-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 3.3.10
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENTDwelling Unit. One or more rooms, arranged
for the use of one or more individuals living together, as in
asingle housekeeping unit that normally have cooking, living,
sanitary, and sleeping facilities. [13R,2016]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The definition for Dwelling Unit from NFPA 13R is required in
NFPA 25 to clarify when sprinklers are required to be inspected
within residential units.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Sandra StanekOrganization: Unifour Fire and
SafetyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 13
14:32:12 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The term "Dwelling Unit" is not used in the
standard.
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Public Input No. 29-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 3.3.11
]
3.3.11 ExerciseTo apply physical exertion on a device or on
equipment, which is limited to the extent of ascertaining
itsoperational status and functionality.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
During the 2017 revision cycle, a definition for "exercise" was
proposed but rejected due to the notion that a dictionary can
easily be utilized to determine the meaning of exercise (as it
relates to equipment) and due to the fact that "exercise" is also
used with relation to applying judgment to a situation, thus
creating a conflict. This new definition is being proposed again so
that the committee can determine if the language is appropriate as
proposed or needs to be edited and improved on. Either way, the
definition is necessary. While Section 3.1 does state that where
terms are not defined in NFPA 25, their ordinarily accepted
meanings can be determined from the 11th edition of
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary, the committee needs to be made aware
that the definition of exercise, as it is used and applied in the
fire sprinkler industry, does not appear there either. Therefore
NFPA 25 does need to include the definition of "exercise" in
Chapter 3.
Additionally, to address the objection of other usages of
"exercise" in the standard, PIs have been submitted and related to
this PI to change those instances of the word "exercise" (with
regard to judgment) to a synonymous term that will not conflict
with the word "exercise" as it is used with reference to
equipment.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 30-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No.A.5.2.2.1]
Changing instance of "exercise" where applied tojudgment
Public Input No. 31-NFPA 25-2017 [Section No.A.13.5.2.2]
Changing instance of "exercise" where applied tojudgment
Public Input No. 30-NFPA 25-2017 [Section No.A.5.2.2.1]Public
Input No. 31-NFPA 25-2017 [Section No.A.13.5.2.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Joe ScibettaOrganization:
BuildingReportsStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Mon
Apr 17 12:23:52 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This definition is not resolving any known problems
in the industry. It does not adequately cover thepurpose of
exercise to prevent degradation from long term static conditions.
It is possible to exercisea component and not ascertain a valves
operation and functionality.
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Public Input No. 12-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 3.3.12.1
]
3.3.12.2 Dry Hydrant.An arrangement of pipe permanently
connected to a water source other than a piped, pressurized
watersupply system that produves a ready means of water supply for
fire fighting purposes and that utilizes thedrafting (suction)
capability of a fire department pump. [NFPA 1142, 20XX]
A.3.3.12.2 The inspection, testing and maintence for dry
hydrants is under the scope of NFPA 1142, WaterSupplies for
Suburban and Rural Fire Fighting.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
See PI 11. This PI extracts the definition of "dry hydrant" from
NFPA 1142 to provide clarity to the user as to the proper
application of the scope language of NFPA 25 vs NFPA 1142 on dry
hydrants. An annex pointer is also provided to this definition as
an additional pointer to NFPA 1142 for the ITM of dry hydrants.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 11-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after1.1.2.1]
PI 12 is a definition added in relation to PI11
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Anthony ApfelbeckOrganization: Altamonte
Springs Building/Fire Safety DivisionStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri Mar 03 08:24:03 EST
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-42-NFPA 25-2017Statement: See PI 11. This PI
extracts the definition of "dry hydrant" from NFPA 1142 to provide
clarity to the user
as to the proper application of the scope language of NFPA 25 vs
NFPA 1142 on dry hydrants. Anannex pointer is also provided to this
definition as an additional pointer to NFPA 1142 for the ITM ofdry
hydrants.
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Public Input No. 160-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.3.34 ]
3.3.34 .1 Qualified . Person
A competent and capable person who has met the requirements and
training for a given field acceptableto the AHJ. [ 96, 2014] person
who, by possession of a recognized degree, certificate,
professionalstanding, or skill, and who, by knowledge, training,
and experience, has demonstrated the ability toperform the
work.
A.3.3.34.1 Qualified personnel should be qualified in
inspection, testing and maintenance of water-basedsystem by a
nationally recognized organization.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The current definition of "qualified" does not provide enough
intent for someone performing work on these life safety systems.
The proposed definition is intended to recognized a degree,
certificate, professional standing, or skill from someone who, by
knowledge, training, and experience, has demonstratedthe ability to
perform this work.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter FullName: Kenneth Schneider
Organization: UA ITF
Affilliation: United Association of Journeymen & Apprentices
of the Plumbing &Pipe Fitting IndustryStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27 05:24:45 EDT
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The determination of qualification is the purview of
the AHJ.
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Public Input No. 75-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.3.34 ]
3.3.34 Qualified.
A competent and capable person who has met the requirements and
training for a given field person ableto complete the intent of a
given task due to training or certification at a level acceptable
to the AHJ. [ 96,2014]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The current definition is not clear enough. It uses "competent
and capable" as qualifiers but these are inherently part of
qualified- i.e. someone that is not competent or capable could not
be qualified. Also, the definition opens debate indicating someone
qualified in fire protection (i.e. a "field") is so, for all
activities. This, used alone, would indicate a person qualified to
test a fire pump is qualified to interpret results, etc. The
revised definition is simpler and clearer "qualified per NFPA 25
goes down to the activity level not just "a field."
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bruce ClarkeOrganization: American
International Group,Street Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue May 23 18:42:37 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The proposed language does not improve the current
definition. The use of the word "intent" in thebody of the text is
ambiguous.
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Public Input No. 76-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.3.40.1 ]
3.3.40.1 Installation Orientation.
The following sprinklers are defined according to
orientation.
3.3.40.1.1 Concealed Pendent Sprinkler.
A
recessed sprinkler with cover plate. [ 13, 2016]
sprinkler designed to be installed such that the water stream is
directed downward against the deflectorthat creates a unilateral
parabolic discharge pattern.
3.3.40.1.2
Flush
Horizontal Sidewall Sprinkler.
A sprinkler in which all or part of the body, including the
shank thread, is mounted above the lower plane ofthe ceiling. [ 13,
2016] designed to be installed horizontally such that the water
stream discharges primarilyoutward from the nearby wall in a
parabolic sphere pattern with a small portion directed backward at
thewall behind the sprinkler.
3.3.40.1.3 Pendent Upright Sprinkler.
A sprinkler designed to be installed in such a way that the
water stream is directed downward upwardagainst the deflector . [
13, 2016] to creates a unilateral parabolic discharge pattern.
3.3.40.1.4
Recessed Sprinkler.Upright/pendant Sidewall Sprinkler
A sprinkler
in which all or part of the body, other than the shank thread,
is mounted within a recessed housing. [ 13,2016]
3.3.40.1.5 Sidewall Sprinkler.
A sprinkler having special deflectors that are designed to
discharge most of the water away
designed to be installed in the upright or pendant position per
manufactures instructions against a wall suchthat the water stream
discharges primarily outward from the nearby wall horizontally in
a
pattern resembling one-quarter of a sphere,
parabolic sphere pattern with a small portion
of the discharge
directed backward at the wall behind the sprinkler.
[ 13, 2016]
3.3.40.1.6 Upright Sprinkler.
A sprinkler designed to be installed in such a way that the
water spray is directed upwards against thedeflector. [ 13,
2016]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The same input will be submitted to NFPA 13 as, by definition
several sub-parts of 3.3..40.1 are not specific to orientation.
Definitions were revised for consistency and to clear up confusion
on sprinklers that are hybrids/ combinations of the three main
orientations. Understanding of these definitions is critical to
inspections and the
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current definition estrangement can be confusing- esp. given
flush and concealed sprinklers should not be associated as an
orientation.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bruce ClarkeOrganization: American
International Group,Street Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue May 23 19:05:19 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: These definitions are the purview of NFPA 13 and
should be addressed with the NFPA 13 TC firstand then extracted
into NFPA 25.
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Public Input No. 78-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.3.40.1 ]
3.3.40.1 Installation Orientation.
The following sprinklers are defined according to
orientation.
3.3.40.1.1 Concealed Sprinkler.
A pendant or sidewall recessed sprinkler designed to be
installed with a cover plate
. [ 13, 2016]
listed as part of the sprinkler assemly to operate and expose
the sprinkler deflector before discharge isrequired.
3.
3.
40.
1.
2 Flush Sprinkler.
A sprinkler in which pendant or sidewall sprinkler designed to
be installed such that all or part of the body, including the shank
thread, is mounted above the lower plane of the ceiling. [ 13,
2016]
3.3.40.
1.
3
Pendent
Recessed Sprinkler.
A pendant sprinkler designed to be installed in such a way that
the water stream is directed downwardagainst the deflector. [ 13,
2016]
3.3.40.1.4 Recessed Sprinkler.
A sprinkler in which all or part of the body, other than the
shank thread, is mounted within a recessedhousing. [ 13, 2016]
3.3.40.1.5 Sidewall Sprinkler.
A sprinkler having special deflectors that are designed to
discharge most of the water away from thenearby wall in a pattern
resembling one-quarter of a sphere, with a small portion of the
discharge directedat the wall behind the sprinkler. [ 13, 2016]
3.3.40.1.6 Upright Sprinkler.
A sprinkler designed to be installed in such a way that the
water spray is directed upwards against thedeflector. [ 13,
2016]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Revised to move these sprinklers types out from orientation
types and better define definitions for understanding in NFPA 25
inspections.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bruce Clarke
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Organization: American International Group,Street
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue May 23 19:32:26 EDT
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The terms are used in the standard the definitions
should remain and there was no action to relocatethese to other
definition sections.
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Public Input No. 118-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 3.3.40.5
]
Electrically Operated SprinklersSprinklers that operate when
temperatures at a nearby detector that is electrically connected to
the sprinklerreach predetermined parameters as a result of a
fire.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
New technology has been developed for a sprinkler that is
electronically operated. These sprinklers are UL listed and are on
the market. There currently isn’t guidance in NFPA 25 for
inspecting, testing, and maintenance of these sprinklers. The
proposed language addresses very basic requirements for this new
technology based on the manufacturer’s Data Sheet.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 119-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No. 5.2.1.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]]Public Input No.
120-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after 5.3.1]Public Input No. 121-NFPA
25-2017 [New Section after 5.4.1.7]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue Jun 20 20:27:55 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The term is not currently referenced in the
standard.
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Public Input No. 190-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.6.2.4 ]
3.6.2.4 * Peak Load.
As pertains to acceptance testing in this standard is the
maximum power required to drive the pump at anyflow rate from 100
percent up to 150 percent of rated capacity (flow). [20, 2016]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Flow rates less than 100% for an acceptance test are used for
curves only relating to flow not for power or Peak load. anything
for Peak load would have to be at least 100% of capacity or the
entire test fails.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: David BaronOrganization: Global Fire
Protection CompanyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue
Jun 27 16:01:01 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-6-NFPA 25-2017Statement: As used in NFPA 25 the
definition applies to annual testing not acceptance testing.
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Public Input No. 20-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.7.1.1 ]
3.7.1.1 Daily Frequency.
Occurring every day with a minimum of 18 hours and a maximum of
30 hours .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The existing definition has no time constraints so one
inspection could be completed at 23:55 and the other at 00:05 and
would be compliant. Sections 3.7.1.4 through 3.7.1.8 provide a
define time period for each of the note frequencies. Section
3.7.1.1 should also provide an established frequency so that the
timing of the physical inspection will meet the intent of provided
an inspection approximately every 24 hours.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Tom ChristmanOrganization: Self
EmployeedAffilliation: NoneStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal
Date: Wed Mar 22 13:10:15 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Daily is such a short time frame that it does not
matter what time on each day the test getsperformed.
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Public Input No. 21-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.7.1.2 ]
3.7.1.2 Weekly Frequency.
Occurring once per calendar week with a minimum of 6 days and a
maximum of 8 days .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The existing definition has no time constraints so one
inspection could be completed at Saturday (the last day of the
week) and the next one on Sunday (the first day of the next week)
and the inspection would be compliant for being completed each week
. Sections 3.7.1.4 through 3.7.1.8 provide a define time period for
each of the note frequencies. Section 3.7.1.2 should also provide
an established frequency so that the timing of the physical
inspection will meet the intent of providing an inspection
approximately every 7 days.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Tom ChristmanOrganization: Self
EmployeedAffilliation: NoneStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal
Date: Wed Mar 22 13:17:28 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Weekly is such a short time frame that it does not
matter what time each week the test getsperformed.
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Public Input No. 22-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 3.7.1.3 ]
3.7.1.3 Monthly Frequency.
Occurring once per calendar month with a minimum of three weeks
and a maximum of 5 weeks .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The existing definition has no time constraints so one
inspection could be completed at January 31st and the next
inspection on February 1st and the inspection would be compliant.
Sections 3.7.1.4 through 3.7.1.8 provide a defined time period for
each of the noted frequencies. Section 3.7.1.3 should also provide
an established frequency so that the timing of the physical
inspection will meet the intent of providing an inspection
approximately every 4 weeks.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Tom ChristmanOrganization: Self
EmployeedAffilliation: NoneStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal
Date: Wed Mar 22 13:23:38 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Monthly is such a short time frame that it does not
matter what time each month the test getsperformed.
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Public Input No. 64-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.1.2 ]
4.1.1.2
Inspection, testing, and maintenance shall be performed by
qualified personnel.
4.1.1.2.1*
The owner shall coordinate with the entity conducting the
inspection, testing, and maintenance activities tominimize any
water damage caused by the discharge of water.
4.1.1.2.2
Service personnel shall be qualified and experienced in the
inspection, testing, and maintenance of fireprotection systems.
4.1.1.2.3
Qualified personnel shall include, but not be limited to, one or
more of the following:
(1) Personnel who are factory trained and certified for the
specific type and brand of system beinginspected
(2) Personnel who are certified by a nationally recognized fire
protection certification organization
(3) Personnel who are registered , licensed, or certified by a
state or local authority
(4) Personnel who are employed and qualified by an organization
listed by a nationally recognizedtesting laboratory for the
servicing of fire protection systems
4.1.1.2.4
Additional evidence of qualification or certification shall be
permitted to be required by the AHJ.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
It would be beneficial for the end user to have guidance on
acceptable qualifications for inspection, testing, and maintenance
of water-based fire protection systems.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Jason ButlerOrganization: Bernie Till and
Associates LLCStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Thu May
04 15:24:41 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: It is the purview of the AHJ to determine and accept
those that are qualified.
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Public Input No. 53-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.1.2.1 ]
4.1.1.2.1*
The owner shall coordinate with the entity Where an entity other
than the property owner or designatedrepresentative is conducting
the inspection, testing and maintenance activities , both the
property owner(or their designated representative) and maintenance
activities the inspection, testing and maintenanceentity shall
coordinate their efforts to minimize any water damage caused by the
discharge of water.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
During the last revision cycle, this section was debated with a
certified amending motion to reject it as the language appeared to
place the burden of this responsibility solely on the property
owner. This PI seeks to address those concerns by tweaking the
language slightly. While it is true that in most cases the property
owner will be the best equipped to care for this responsibility,
where another entity is being utilized to carry out ITM activities,
this language clarifies that the responsibility for minimizing
water damage shall be a joint, coordinated effort
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Joe ScibettaOrganization:
BuildingReportsStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Thu
Apr 20 16:38:40 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The change is not needed. This work should be
coordinated between the owner and those performingthe work.
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Public Input No. 122-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.1.3 ]
4.1.1.3 *
Where the property owner or designated representative is not the
occupant, the property owner ordesignated representative shall be
permitted to delegate the authority for inspecting, testing,
maintenance,and the managing of impairments of the fire protection
system to a designated qualified representative.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Some facilities that adopt NFPA 25, may not be using qualified
personnel to conduct the inspecting, testing, maintenance, and
managing the impairments. Section 3.3.24 has a definition for
"qualified", and this should be leveraged because some contractors
have sent incompetent technicians to test our systems.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bernard LeongOrganization: Chevron Energy
Technology CompStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Thu
Jun 22 16:30:57 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This section does not require a reference to
qualified.
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Public Input No. 133-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 4.1.2.1
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENT4.1.2.1.1* The requirments of 4.1.2 and
4.2.1.1 shall not apply where water-filled piping is located
inunconditioned building spaces or areas outside the building
envelope and are not subject to freezing.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The current language does not account for water-filled piping
that was approved for installation in areas where temperatures fall
below 40 degrees F. An allowance must be made for these
situations.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 134-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after A.4.1.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Russell LeavittOrganization: Telgian
CorporationAffilliation: The Home DepotStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Mon Jun 26 07:23:31 EDT
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-7-NFPA 25-2017Statement: The current language
does not account for water-filled piping that was approved for
installation in
areas where temperatures fall below 40 degrees F. An allowance
must be made for these situations.
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Public Input No. 107-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.3 ]
4.1.3* Accessibility.
The property owner or designated representative shall provide
ready accessibility to components of water-based fire protection
systems including residential dwelling units that require
inspection, testing, andmaintenance.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
There have been little or no AHJ enforcement to perform 100%
walk through sprinkler annual inspection of individual residential
units. End users, property owners or their representatives are now
posing questions about the validity of the requirement.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Sandra StanekOrganization: Unifour Fire and
SafetyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 13
10:00:54 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The standard clearly states that owners or
designated representatives shall provide readyaccessibility.
Dwelling units are just one area that is often difficult to access.
Accessibility should becoordinated with owners and dwelling unit
owners. Enforcement is established per local
jurisdictionrequirements.
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Public Input No. 99-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.4 [Excluding
any Sub-Sections] ]
The property owner or designated representative shall notify the
authority having jurisdiction, the firedepartment, if required, and
the alarm-receiving facility before testing or shutting down a
system or itssupply. A confirmation of the notification shall be
documented.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
This will provide proof that the authority having jurisdiction
or fire department received the request and approved a system
shutdown.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Christopher ShrodekOrganization: Cleveland
ClinicStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Thu Jun 08
07:52:29 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The proposed requirement is vague and difficult to
enforce. From an impairment perspective it isalready addressed. A
need to obtain a confirmation that the notification is received is
unnecessary.
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Public Input No. 169-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 4.1.5
]
4.1.5.1* Noncompliance.If, during inspection or testing in
accordance with this standard, conditions are identified that are
in conflictwith the provisions of this standard, those conditions
shall be deemed deficiencies or impairments.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
NFPA 25 defines the terms “deficiency” and “impairment”. It also
recommends classification of conditions found as such, but nowhere
does it state that conditions found that are not consistent with
the standard are to be considered deficiencies or impairments.
Add also annex language: A.4.1.5.1 See A.4.1.5
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Robert UpsonOrganization: National Fire
Sprinkler AssociationAffilliation: NFSA Engineering and Standards
CommitteeStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27
10:27:50 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Where an inspection or test has been missed this
does not necessarily constitute a deficiency orimpairment.
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Public Input No. 167-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 4.1.5.1
]
4.1.5.1.1The property owner or designated representative shall
correct, remedy, repair or replace components andequipment under
recall or voluntary replacement programs.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
NFPA 25 currently contains no reference to products that are
part of a recall or replacement program. This proposal clarifies
that these products must be dealt with.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 168-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after A.4.1.5.1]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Robert UpsonOrganization: National Fire
Sprinkler AssociationAffilliation: NFSA Engineering and Standards
CommitteeStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27
10:13:50 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-112-NFPA 25-2017Statement: This provides an
awareness of importance of handling recalled products or components
by owner
maintenance personnel , designated representative or contractors
as well as a process foraddressing such deficiencies when
discovered.
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Public Input No. 79-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.5.2 ]
4.1.5.2
Corrections and repairs shall be performed by qualified
maintenance personnel or a qualifiedcontractor personnel acceptable
to the AHJ .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Revised wording simplifies interpretation and correlates with
4.1.1.2. This also allows more alignment with various
jurisdictional requirements- some corrections can be done by
maintenance and some require contractors but, they must be
qualified by definition.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bruce ClarkeOrganization: American
International Group,Street Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue May 23 19:48:37 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The committee wishes to retain qualified maintenance
personnel and qualified contractor.
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Public Input No. 205-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.1.9 ]
4.1.9 General Information Sign.
4.1.9.1
A
The general information sign(s) required by NFPA 13 shall be
provided with a permanently markedweatherproof metal or rigid
plastic
information
sign
shall be placed at the system control riser supplying an
antifreeze loop, dry system, preaction system, orauxiliary system
control valve
, secured with corrosion-resistant wire, chain, or other
acceptable means, regardless of date of systeminstallation .
4.1.9.2
Each sign shall be secured with a corrosion-resistant wire,
chain, or other approved means and shallindicate at least the
following information:
(1) Location of the area served by the system
(2) Location of auxiliary drains and low-point drains for dry
pipe and preaction systems
(3) The presence and location of antifreeze or other auxiliary
systems
(4) The presence and location(s) of heat tape
Such signs shall be placed at each system control riser,
antifreeze loop, and auxiliary system control valve.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Adding the word General to match NFPA 13 and referencing the
installation standard will clarify the signs name, intended use,
placement and required information. This will also help combine
5.2.7 and 5.2.8 and 5.2.8 (annex) material referenced in additional
public input 206. Additionally, to keep congruent with the
Hydraulic Design Information Sign in NFPA 25, A.4.1.9.2 brings in
the Sample General Information Sign from NFPA 13. The sample signs
in Annex demonstrate the required components of the sign from NFPA
13 without eating precious space within the body of NFPA 25.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 206-NFPA 25-2017
[Sections 5.2.7, 5.2.8]Public Input No. 207-NFPA 25-2017 [Section
No. A.5.2.8]Public Input No. 208-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
A.4.1.7]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Wilton MarburgerOrganization: Myers Risk
Services, Inc.Street Address:City:State:
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Zip:Submittal Date: Wed Jun 28 14:25:45 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-29-NFPA 25-2017Statement: This clarifies that if
a general information sign is present the sign requirements per
NFPA 25 are
achieved and an extra information sign is not required.
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Public Input No. 161-NFPA 25-2017 [ Sections 4.3.1, 4.3.2, 4.3.3
]
Sections 4.3.1, 4.3.2, 4.3.3
4.3.1 *
Records shall be made for all inspections, tests, and
maintenance of the system and its components andshall be made
available to the authority having jurisdiction upon request .
4.3.1.1
Records shall be maintained by the property owner .
4.3.1.1 .2 *
Records shall be permitted to be stored and accessed
electronically.
4.3. 1.1.3
Records shall be made available to the authority having
jurisdiction upon request.
4.3. 2
Records shall indicate the following:
(1) The procedure/activity performed (e.g., inspection, test, or
maintenance)
(2) The organization that performed the activity
(3) The required frequency of the activity
(4) The results and date of the activity
(5) The name and contact information of the qualified contractor
or owner, including lead person for activity
4.3.3 *
Records shall be maintained by the property owner.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Organized for ease of use and in accordance with manual of
style.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Russell LeavittOrganization: Telgian
CorporationAffilliation: The Home DepotStreet
Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27 07:28:04 EDT
2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-8-NFPA 25-2017Statement: Organized for ease of
use and in accordance with manual of style.
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Public Input No. 149-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 4.6.6
]
4.7* Frequencies Based on Building Type and Occupancy
4.7.1* Different frequencies for performing inspections,
testing, and maintenance shall be allowed asdescribed in individual
chapters 5 through 13.
4.7.2* The use of section 4.7 is at the discretion of the
building owner or the designated representative.4.7.3* Before
different frequencies can be used, the system shall be evaluated as
described in section4.1.7 to determine if changes have occurred in
the occupancy, hazard, water supply, storage commodity,storage
arrangement, building modification, or other condition that affects
the installation criteria of thesystem.
4.7.3.1 An evaluation shall be performed at least every five
years thereafter to continue to use frequenciesbased on building
type and occupancy.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
A NFPA 25 task group was appointed to consider adding new
allowances for different frequencies based on building type and
occupancy. The task group has determined that this alternate
approach for inspecting, testing, and maintaining water-based fire
protection systems has some merit but should be based on data to
prove any different frequencies are warranted. The task group also
agrees that this alternate approach should be simple to understand
and apply. A series of PIs were submitted on behalf of the task
group to introduce this concept to NFPA 25 and to begin gathering
data to support any related changes to the standard.Submitted on
behalf of the Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection,
Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies task group.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 150-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after A.4.6.6.4.2]Public Input No. 151-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 5.1.1.2]Public Input No. 152-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 6.1.1.2]Public Input No. 153-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 7.1.1.2]Public Input No. 154-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 8.1.1.2]Public Input No. 155-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 9.1.1.2]Public Input No. 156-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 10.1.1.2]Public Input No. 157-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 11.1.1.2]Public Input No. 158-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 13.1.1.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Mon Jun 26 19:46:44 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
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Resolution: CI-9-NFPA 25-2017Statement: A NFPA 25 task group was
appointed to consider adding new allowances for different
frequencies
based on building type and occupancy. The task group has
determined that this alternate approachfor inspecting, testing, and
maintaining water-based fire protection systems has some merit
butshould be based on data to prove any different frequencies are
warranted. The task group alsoagrees that this alternate approach
should be simple to understand and apply. A series of PIs
weresubmitted on behalf of the task group to introduce this concept
to NFPA 25 and to begin gatheringdata to support any related
changes to the standard.
Submitted on behalf of the Building Type and Occupancy Based
Inspection, Testing, andMaintenance Frequencies task group.
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Public Input No. 123-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.6.6.4.1 ]
4.6.6.4.1
Automated testing equipment that flows water flow for a test
shall be permitted to circulate water or flowwater overboard except
as required in 4.6.6.4.2.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
In some systems, especially on ships or offshore or near
jetties, it is common to flow the fire water (sea water) overboard.
This should also include where fire water is taken from lakes,
where it is flowed back to the source of supply, circulating the
water is ideal for fire water storage tanks.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Bernard LeongOrganization: Chevron Energy
Technology CompStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Thu
Jun 22 16:54:50 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This section does not limit discharging of water it
only states that circulation is an option.
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Public Input No. 170-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.6.6.4.1 ]
4.6.6.4.1
Automated testing equipment that flows water flow for a test
shall verifies flow alarm operation shall bepermitted to circulate
water except as required in 4.6.6.4.2.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Section 1.3.1* states that It is not the intent of this standard
to limit or restrict the use of other inspection, testing, or
maintenance programs that provide an equivalent level of system
integrity and performance to that detailed in this standard. If
testing verifies that the flow alarm is operating it should be
allowed according to the purpose of this standard.Section 1.3.2
provides the authority having jurisdiction the ability to approve
alternative testing programs. The AHJ can still require an actual
waterflow test at any time, this just provides an alternative if
approved by the AHJ. The purpose of the waterflow test is to ensure
the ability of the waterflow switch to initiate an alarm, not to
prove availability of the water supply. If the product is Listed
for the purpose for which it is intended to be used, it should be
allowed to be used for that purpose.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Robert UpsonOrganization: National Fire
Sprinkler AssociationAffilliation: NFSA Engineering and Standards
CommitteeStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 27
10:55:27 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This section is not limited to flow alarm
devices.
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Public Input No. 117-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 4.6.6.6
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENT4.6.6.6.1 Devices and equipment utilized to
perform automated inspection and testing procedures that arenot
subjected to system pressure or are not integral to the operation
of the system during a fire event shallnot be required to be
listed.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Many devices and equipment that can be used for automated
inspection and testing are not listed for the purpose and don’t
need to be. Devices such as cameras, thermocouples, tachometers,
and vibration sensors that could be used for NFPA 25 inspections
and tests shouldn’t require any special listing for fire protection
systems. Other devices such as pressure transducers, solenoid
valves, and flow meters are not integral to the operation of the
system and shouldn’t require any special listing for fire
protection systems, just like gauges and drain valves. This
exception correlates with language proposed for NFPA 13, 14, and
20.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 159-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 3.3.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Fri Jun 16 11:54:42 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-19-NFPA 25-2017Statement: Many devices and
equipment that can be used for automated inspection and testing are
not listed for
the purpose and don’t need to be. Devices such as cameras,
thermocouples, tachometers, andvibration sensors that could be used
for NFPA 25 inspections and tests shouldn’t require any
speciallisting for fire protection systems. Other devices such as
pressure transducers, solenoid valves, andflow meters are not
integral to the operation of the system and shouldn’t require any
special listing forfire protection systems, just like gauges and
drain valves. This exception correlates with languageproposed for
NFPA 13, 14, and 20. The annex note was added for clarity.
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Public Input No. 127-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.6.6.8 ]
4.6.6.8
Failure of a component or system to pass an automated test shall
result in an audible supervisory signal ortrouble signal .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Having a test failure result in a supervisory condition means
another point has to be monitored by the fire alarm/sprinkler
monitoring panel. This adds additional cost to the building owner.
If the result of a failed test is a trouble condition on the same
point/zone of the device being tested, there is no additional cost
to the building owner. The point/zone shall remain in a trouble
condition until a successful test is completed.The failure of a
manual test does not currently result in a supervisory condition,
why should the failure of an automated test result in one..
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Michael HenkeOrganization: Potter Electric
Signal CompanyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri Jun
23 15:36:11 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: A supervisory signal is a higher priority
signal.
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Public Input No. 57-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 4.9.6 ]
4.9.6* Electrical Safety.
Legally required
All appropriate manufacturer, OSHA, NFPA 70E, as well as any
legally required safety precautionsshall be
taken
followed when inspecting, testing , or maintaining
electric controllers for motor-driven fire pumps
any fire pump controller or electrically energized equipment
.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
This paragraph in chapter 4 should be more inclusive.
Manufacturers may have specific instructions for specific equipment
meant to protect the people working on that equipment that may not
be "legally required" but important and necessary for personal
safety while working on their equipment. This statement should not
be limited to electric controllers for motor driven fire pumps in
this chapter. Also, if this Standard is adopted or applied outside
of the USA there may not be any "legally required" precautions.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: David BaronOrganization: Global Fire
Protection CompanyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Fri
Apr 28 10:47:20 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-20-NFPA 25-2017Statement: The proposed change to
the body of the standard sets a minimum requirement to utilize
the
provisions of NFPA 70E as a
baseline for protective measures required when working on
electric controllers for motor-driven firepumps. The additional
language added to the Annex provides reinforcing directive that
every electric motor-driven fire pumpcontroller
installation is different and that the calculation of incident
energy, the resultant labeling and therequired PPE for such
will
be different for each. Equivalent was added to address areas
around the globe where NFPA 70E isnot used.
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Public Input No. 151-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 5.1.1.2
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENT5.1.1.3 Table 5.1.1.3 shall be allowed to be
used to determine different frequencies for the routineinspection,
testing, and maintenance of sprinkler systems based on building
type and occupancy.
5.1.1.3.1 The requirements of 4.7 shall also apply.5.1.1.3.2 The
use of Table 5.1.1.3 is at the discretion of the owner.
Additional Proposed Changes
File Name Description Approved
Sample_Tables_for_Chapters_5_6_7_8_9_10_11_and_13.docx Sample
table for chapter 5 is included
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
A NFPA 25 task group was appointed to consider adding new
allowances for different frequencies based on building type and
occupancy. The task group has determined that this alternate
approach for inspecting, testing, and maintaining water-based fire
protection systems has some merit but should be based on data to
prove any different frequencies are warranted. The task group also
agrees that this alternate approach should be simple to understand
and apply. A series of PIs were submitted on behalf of the task
group to introduce this concept to NFPA 25 and to begin gathering
data to support any related changes to the standard.Submitted on
behalf of the Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection,
Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies task group.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 149-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 4.6.6] Base requirement in chapter 4Public Input No.
150-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after A.4.6.6.4.2] Annex text for
base requirementPublic Input No. 152-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section
after 6.1.1.2]Public Input No. 153-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
7.1.1.2]Public Input No. 154-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
8.1.1.2]Public Input No. 155-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
9.1.1.2]Public Input No. 156-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
10.1.1.2]Public Input No. 157-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
11.1.1.2]Public Input No. 158-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
13.1.1.2]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Mon Jun 26 20:15:07 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
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Resolution: CI-10-NFPA 25-2017Statement: A NFPA 25 task group
was appointed to consider adding new allowances for different
frequencies
based on building type and occupancy. The task group has
determined that this alternate approachfor inspecting, testing, and
maintaining water-based fire protection systems has some merit
butshould be based on data to prove any different frequencies are
warranted. The task group alsoagrees that this alternate approach
should be simple to understand and apply. A series of PIs
weresubmitted on behalf of the task group to introduce this concept
to NFPA 25 and to begin gatheringdata to support any related
changes to the standard.
Submitted on behalf of the Building Type and Occupancy Based
Inspection, Testing, andMaintenance Frequencies task group.
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Sample tables to be expanded to describe different frequencies based on building type and occupancy. Table 5.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Hangers/Braces/Supports 5.2.3
Annually
Every ??? years Pipe and Fittings
5.2.2 Annually Every ??? years
Table 6.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Cabinets 6.2.1 Annually
Every ??? years Hose Connection
6.2.1 Annually Every ??? years
Table 7.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Hose Houses 7.2.2.7 Quarterly
Every ??? months Monitor Nozzles
7.2.2.6 Semiannually
Every ??? months
Table 8.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Diesel Pump System 8.2.2(4)
Weekly
Every ??? weeks Electric Pump System
8.2.2(3) Weekly Every ??? weeks
Table 9.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Catwalks and ladders 9.2.5.1
Quarterly Semiannually Support structure
7.2.5.1 Quarterly Semiannually
Table 10.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Drainage 10.2.8 Quarterly
Semiannually
Table 11.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Discharge device location (spray nozzle)
11.2.5 Monthly Bi‐monthly
Discharge device position (spray nozzle)
11.2.5 Monthly Bi‐monthly
Table 13.1.1.3 Building Type and Occupancy Based Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance Frequencies
Item Reference Normal Frequency
BT&O Based Frequency Inspection
Control valves (sealed) 13.3.2.1
Weekly Monthly Control valves (locked)
13.3.2.1.1 Monthly
Quarterly Control valves (elec superv)
13.3.2.1.2 Quarterly Semiannually
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Public Input No. 23-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.1.1.2 ]
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5.1.1.2
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Table 5.1.1.2 shall be used to determine the minimum required
frequencies for inspection, testing, andmaintenance.
Table 5.1.1.2 Summary of Sprinkler System Inspection, Testing,
and Maintenance
Item Frequency Reference
? Inspection
Control valves
Chapter 13Fire department connections
Chapter 13Gauges (wet and deluge systems) Quarterly Chapter
13Gauges (dry and preaction systems) Monthly/quarterly Chapter
13Hanger/braces/supports Annually 5.2.3Heat tracing Per
manufacturer’s requirements 5.2.7Hydraulic design information sign
Annually 5.2.6Information signs Annually 5.2.8, 5.2.9Internal
piping condition
Chapter 14Pipe and fittings Annually 5.2.2Sprinklers Annually
5.2.1Sprinklers (spare) Annually 5.2.1.4Supervisory signal devices
(except valve supervisory switches) Quarterly5X .2X .5XSystem
valves
Chapter 13Valve supervisory signal devices Quarterly
5.2.5Waterflow alarm devices Quarterly 5.2.5
? Test
Antifreeze solution Annually 5.3.4Control valves
Chapter 13
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Gauges 5 years Chapter 13Main drain
Chapter 13
Sprinklers At 50 years and every 10 yearsthereafter5.3.1.1.1,
5.3.1.1.1.1,5.3.1.1.1.2
Sprinklers At 75 years and every 5 yearsthereafter
5.3.1.1.1.5
Sprinklers (dry) 10 years and every 10 yearsthereafter
5.3.1.1.1.6
Sprinklers (extra high or greater temperaturesolder type) 5
years 5.3.1.1.1.4
Sprinklers (fast-response) At 20 years and every 10
yearsthereafter 5.3.1.1.1.3
Sprinklers (harsh environments) 5 years 5.3.1.1.2Supervisory
signal devices (except valvesupervisory switches)
Chapter 13System valves
Chapter 13Valve supervisory signal devices
Chapter 13Waterflow alarm devices (Mechanical) Quarterly
5.3.3.1Waterflow alarm devices (vane and pressure switch type)
Semiannually 5.3.3.2
? Maintenance
Low-point drains (dry pipe and preaction systems)
Chapter 13Sprinklers and automatic spray nozzles protecting
commercial cooking equipment andventilation systems Annually
5.4.1.7
Valves (all types)
Chapter 13
? Investigation
Obstruction
Chapter 14
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
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Table 5.1.1.2, Inspection, Supervisory signal devices (except
valve supervisory switches) are noted as being inspected quarterly
with a reference of Section 5.2.2. Section 5.2.5 addresses
hydraulic name plates not supervisory switches. 5.2.5* Hydraulic
Design Information Sign. The hydraulic design information sign
shall be inspected annually to verify that it is provided, attached
securely to the sprinkler riser, and is legible. Insert the
appropriate section to be referenced for the required inspection.
May be prudent to check all of the references in the table.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Tom ChristmanOrganization: Self
EmployeedAffilliation: NoneStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal
Date: Wed Mar 22 13:31:52 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-43-NFPA 25-2017Statement: Table 5.1.1.2,
Inspection, Supervisory signal devices (except valve supervisory
switches) are noted
as being inspected quarterly with a reference of Section 5.2.2.
Section 5.2.5 addresses hydraulicname plates not supervisory
switches. 5.2.5* Hydraulic Design Information Sign. The hydraulic
designinformation sign shall be inspected annually to verify that
it is provided, attached securely to thesprinkler riser, and is
legible. Insert the appropriate section to be referenced for the
requiredinspection. May be prudent to check all of the references
in the table. Editorial revisions.
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Public Input No. 108-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.2.1.1
[Excluding any Sub-Sections] ]
Sprinklers All sprinklers shall be inspected from the floor
level annually.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
There have been little or no AHJ enforcement to perform a 100%
walk through annual inspection of sprinkler heads within individual
residential units. End users, property owners or their
representatives are now posing questions to us about the validity
of the requirement.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Sandra StanekOrganization: Unifour Fire and
SafetyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue Jun 13
10:15:07 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: Access to residential units is a local and state
issue.The standard already requires all sprinklers to beinspected
from the floor except for those that are permitted to be admitted
from the inspection, see5.1.1.3 and 5.1.1.4.
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Public Input No. 119-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.2.1.1
[Excluding any Sub-Sections] ]
Sprinklers shall be inspected from the floor level annually.
annually or at a frequency described by themanufacturer’s Data
Sheet . .
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
New technology has been developed for a sprinkler that is
electronically operated. These sprinklers are UL listed and are on
the market. There currently isn’t guidance in NFPA 25 for
inspecting, testing, and maintenance of these sprinklers. The
proposed language addresses very basic requirements for this new
technology based on the manufacturer’s Data Sheet.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 118-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after3.3.40.5]
Definition of Electrically OperatedSprinkler
Public Input No. 120-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
5.3.1]Public Input No. 121-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section
after5.4.1.7]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue Jun 20 20:30:54 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This would put a burden on the inspector to have all
the cutsheets for the sprinklers in a facility.
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Public Input No. 142-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.2.1.1
[Excluding any Sub-Sections] ]
Sprinklers shall be inspected from the floor level annually. The
coverplates of a concealed s prinklers shallbe removed to expose
the sprinkler for inspection and then replaced after the
inspection.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
There is no possible way to comply with 5.2.1.1.1 (1) through
(6) with a coverplate attached. In addition there is no way to even
determine that there is a sprinkler above the plate if the
coverplate was simply glued to the ceiling.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: John DeutschOrganization: Shambaugh
SonStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Mon Jun 26
12:33:19 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: The removal of cover plates from concealed
sprinklers is unreasonable. NFPA 25 requires inspectionof
sprinklers from the floor and the removal of cover plates would
require additional equipment toreach the sprinklers. Sprinklers in
concealed spaces do not need to be inspected.
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Public Input No. 143-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.2.1.1
[Excluding any Sub-Sections] ]
Sprinklers shall be inspected from the floor level annually. The
coverplates of concealed sprinklers need not beremoved for
inspection.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The standard is silent on the removal of coverplates and leaves
the decision up to the inspector. One might assume that in order to
comply with 5.2.1.1 that it is obvious that the coverplate must be
removed which cannot be done from the floor as indicated in
5.2.1.1. This revision simply clarifies what I believe is presently
the norm. Coverplates are not being removed.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Jack ThackerOrganization: Shambaugh &
SonAffilliation: NFSAStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Mon Jun 26 12:42:05 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-126-NFPA 25-2017Statement: There may be
conditions where you might need to remove concealed sprinklers and
other instances
where you may not.
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Public Input No. 191-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 5.2.1.1.3
]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENTConcealed fire sprinklers installed in
drywall or suspended cielings shall be considered installed in
aconcealec space and therfore only require visual inspection of the
coverplate assembly for any items listedin 5.2.1.1.1.
Type your content here ...
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
5.2.1.1 states sprinklers shall be inspected from floor level
annually, however the actual concealed sprinkler is not visible
from the floor unless the cover plate is removed. It would be
impossible to inspect these heads without removing the cover plate,
however I do not believe the intent was ever to require that the
cover plates to actually ever be removed. This simply will clarify
that visually inspecting the sprinkler assembly in this case
satisfies the inspection requirement.
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: David BaronOrganization: Global Fire
Protection CompanyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue
Jun 27 16:10:13 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-126-NFPA 25-2017Statement: There may be
conditions where you might need to remove concealed sprinklers and
other instances
where you may not.
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Public Input No. 206-NFPA 25-2017 [ Sections 5.2.7, 5.2.8 ]
Sections 5.2.7, 5.2.8
5.2.7 General Information Sign.
The information sign required by 4.1.9 shall be inspected
annually to verify that it is provided, securelyattached, and
legible.
5.2.8 * General Information Sign.
The general information sign required by NFPA 13 shall be
inspected annually to verify that it is provided,securely attached,
and legible.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
5.2.8 and A.5.2.8 serve no useful purpose if 4.1.9 is tied back
to NFPA 13. Additionally, adding the word General to 5.2.7 makes
this section uniform with 4.1.9 and NFPA 13.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 205-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No. 4.1.9]Public Input No. 207-NFPA 25-2017 [Section No.
A.5.2.8]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Wilton MarburgerOrganization: Myers Risk
Services, Inc.Street Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Wed Jun
28 14:32:45 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-29-NFPA 25-2017Statement: This clarifies that if
a general information sign is present the sign requirements per
NFPA 25 are
achieved and an extra information sign is not required.
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Public Input No. 93-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 5.2.8 ]
TITLE OF NEW CONTENT5.2.8.1 The sign shall include the following
information:
(1) Name and location of the facility protected
(2) Occupancy classification
(3) Commodity classification
(4) Presence of high-piled and/or rack storage
(5) Maximum height of storage planned
(6) Aisle width planned
(7) Encapsulation of pallet loads
(8) Presence of solid shelving
(9) Flow test data
(10 Presence of flammable/combustible liquids
(11) Presence of hazardous materials
(12) Presence of other special storage
(13) Location of auxiliary drains and low point drains on dry
pipe and preaction systems
(14) Original results of main drain flow test
(15) Name of installing contractor or designer
(16) Indication of presence and location of antifreeze or other
auxiliary systems
(17) Where injection systems are installed to treat MIC or
corrosion, the type of chemical, concentration ofthe chemical, and
where information can be found as to the proper disposal of the
chemical.
[ 13 :25.6.2]
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
The standard should state all required information. One should
not have to go back to NFPA 13 for the details of the General
Information Sign
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Sandra StanekOrganization: Unifour Fire and
SafetyStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date: Tue May 30
15:51:11 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: FR-29-NFPA 25-2017Statement: This clarifies that if
a general information sign is present the sign requirements per
NFPA 25 are
achieved and an extra information sign is not required.
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Public Input No. 120-NFPA 25-2017 [ New Section after 5.3.1
]
5.3.2 Electrically Operated Sprinklers
5.3.2.1 Electrically operated sprinklers shall be tested in
accordance with the manufacturer’s Data Sheet.5.3.2.2 The testing
of the electronic actuation and supervision shall be in accordance
with themanufacturer’s Data Sheet and NFPA 72.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
New technology has been developed for a sprinkler that is
electronically operated. These sprinklers are UL listed and are on
the market. There currently isn’t guidance in NFPA 25 for
inspecting, testing, and maintenance of these sprinklers. The
proposed language addresses very basic requirements for this new
technology based on the manufacturer’s Data Sheet.
Related Public Inputs for This Document
Related Input RelationshipPublic Input No. 118-NFPA 25-2017 [New
Section after 3.3.40.5] DefinitionPublic Input No. 119-NFPA 25-2017
[Section No. 5.2.1.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]]
Inspectionrequirement
Public Input No. 121-NFPA 25-2017 [New Section after
5.4.1.7]
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name: Terry VictorOrganization:
TycoSimplexGrinnellStreet Address:City:State:Zip:Submittal Date:
Tue Jun 20 20:34:46 EDT 2017
Committee Statement
Resolution: This technology should be presented to the
installation standards prior to the ITM standard. Chapter4, 4.1.1.1
already states that the manufacturers data sheets need to be
consulted. Currentlymanufacturers data sheets are not available
online.
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Public Input No. 176-NFPA 25-2017 [ Section No. 5.3.1.1.1
[Excluding any Sub-Sections]
]
Where sprinklers have been in service installed for 50 years,
they shall be replaced or representativesamples from one or more
samp