NFPA Technical Committee On Fire Hose NFPA 1961 Minutes – Task Group Update Underwriters Laboratory November 15 th - 16 th 2016 Tuesday, November 15 th , 2016 Meeting called to order at 8:07 AM by Chairman Andrew Ellison. Introductions made by the Chair, committee members, NFPA Staff Liaison, Jacqueline Wilmot and Dan Gorham of the Fire Protection Research Foundation. Jacqueline Wilmot passed around the Committee List and asked attendees to make any necessary corrections. Also passed around an attendance list and asked that attendees check off their names and asked that guests add their names. Attendees Andrew Ellison, Chair Jason Goodale, Secretary Jacqueline Wilmot, Staff Liaison Principals Bill Betz Toby Mathews Christopher Budzinski Michael Mayer Jonathan Cares David Quick Thomas Farruggia Marc Radecky Brian Fink Jason Riggenbach James Glatts John Stacey William Graves Tim Vanderlip Jeff Hebenstreit David Walsh Jayme Kahle Samuel Wu Duane Leonhardt Voting Alternates Stephen Jackson Nicholas Nava Alternates Jonathan Larrabee Guests Jesse Edwards, All American Hose Daniel Gorham, Fire Protection Research Foundation David Walsh, Boston Fire Department
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NFPA Technical Committee On Fire Hose NFPA 1961 ......NFPA Technical Committee On Fire Hose NFPA 1961 Minutes – Task Group Update Underwriters Laboratory November 15th - 16th 2016
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NFPA Technical Committee
On Fire Hose
NFPA 1961
Minutes – Task Group Update Underwriters Laboratory
November 15th - 16th 2016
Tuesday, November 15th, 2016
Meeting called to order at 8:07 AM by Chairman Andrew Ellison.
Introductions made by the Chair, committee members, NFPA Staff Liaison, Jacqueline Wilmot
and Dan Gorham of the Fire Protection Research Foundation.
Jacqueline Wilmot passed around the Committee List and asked attendees to make any necessary
corrections. Also passed around an attendance list and asked that attendees check off their names
and asked that guests add their names.
Attendees
Andrew Ellison, Chair
Jason Goodale, Secretary
Jacqueline Wilmot, Staff Liaison
Principals
Bill Betz Toby Mathews
Christopher Budzinski Michael Mayer
Jonathan Cares David Quick
Thomas Farruggia Marc Radecky
Brian Fink Jason Riggenbach
James Glatts John Stacey
William Graves Tim Vanderlip
Jeff Hebenstreit David Walsh
Jayme Kahle Samuel Wu
Duane Leonhardt
Voting Alternates
Stephen Jackson Nicholas Nava
Alternates
Jonathan Larrabee
Guests
Jesse Edwards, All American Hose
Daniel Gorham, Fire Protection Research Foundation
David Walsh, Boston Fire Department
Motion and second to accept, the Previous Meeting Minutes from the Second Draft Meeting
(Denver, CO), succeeded.
Jacqueline Wilmot also reviewed the Annual 2018 Revision Cycle dates:
Final date for Second Draft meeting - 11/8/2017
Posting of Second draft and TC ballot - 12/20/2017
Final date for Ballot Return - 1/10/2018
Final Second Draft posted - 1/24/2018
Closing Date for Notice of Intent To Make a
Motion
- 2/21/2018
Issuance of Consent Document (if no NITMAMs) - 4/29/2018
NFPA Association Meeting - 6/4‐7/2018
Issuance of Document (if NITMAMs were
submitted)
- 8/14/2018
The following Task Groups were given 1 hour of time to break out into working groups to discuss
the status of the group.
a. Radiative Test Task Group
b. Conductive Test Task Group
c. Task Group on New Document Request – Guide for Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances &
Nozzles
d. Task Group on Combination of NFPA 1964/1965
e. Task Group on Education & Training Coordination Letter
f. Ultra-High Pressure Fire Hose Task Group
Task Group Chairs provided Task Group Reports to the Technical Committee.
a. Task Group on New Document Request – Guide for Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances &
Nozzles (Reported by Task Group Chair David Quick):
The purpose of this task group is to complete the new document request form and
letter to the NFPA Standards Council to demonstrate the need for a Guide for
Selection of Fire Hose, Appliances& Nozzles. The document request form and
letter was shared with the Technical Committee and comments made by
committee members were incorporated.
b. Task Group on the Combination of NFPA 1964 & 1965 (Reported by Jonathan Larrabee):
The purpose of this task group is to combine NFPA 1964 and NFPA 1965.NFPA
1965 will be incorporated into NFPA 1964 since the revision cycle for NFPA
1964 comes up first. A pdf of the combination of the documents was sent to the
committee members two weeks before this meeting to be reviewed. The first
revisions in NFPA 1964 are not included in the combination document, but will
be if no second revisions are made to remove the first revisions. All other work
has been completed. A conference call is being scheduled for late January
2017/early February 2017. Task Group dismissed.
c. Task Group on the Education & Training Coordination Letter (Report by Bill Betz):
A letter has been developed and shared with the Technical Committee to be sent
to the Staff Liaison of other NFPA Technical Committees (NFPA 100, NFPA
1403, NFPA 1500, NFPA 1700, NFPA 1710, NFPA 1720, NFPA 1901) to make
them aware of the thermal resistance of fire hose and the current work by the
Technical Committee on Fire Hose. Task Group Members will submit public
inputs and public comments on related documents to address the general
comments of the letter. This task group will continue to work on submitting
public input of related documents and work with the staff liaisons of those
documents to determine the location of where the public inputs belong with the
various documents.
d. Task Group on Ultra-High Pressure Fire Hose (Reported by Jason Goodale):
The purpose of this task group is to develop language on ultra high pressure hose
to be incorporated into NFPA 1961. This task group will continue to work with
the NFPA Library to review older editions of NFPA 1961 to use the latest
language as a starting point.
e. Task Group on Conductive Test Methods (Reported by Nick Nava):
The purpose of this task group is to review existing conductive test methods to be
incorporated into NFPA 1961. This task group needs to determine if current fire
hose can be sent out and tested to BS 6391 to determine if it can pass this test.
The decision was made to use the current UL 19 hot block test method but at
higher starting temperatures. The Fire Protection Research Foundation can
provide some level of support to coordinate a “blind” study of manufacturers to
bring results back to the Technical Committee. A conference call will be
scheduled on December 12th to discuss updates.
f. Task Group on Radiative Test Methods (Reported by Tim Vanderlip and Michael Aubuchon via
phone)
The purpose of this task group is to develop radiative test methods to be incorporated
into NFPA 1961. Thus far, this task group reviewed NFPA 1971 & 1981, ATSM
documents, and ISO documents. The Technical Committee discussed the need to
consider a test method using hose pressurized with air vs. water due to capabilities of
testing laboratories. The advantages and disadvantages of using radiant heaters with
air-pressurized hose and crib-fire type exposure with water-pressurized hose were
thoroughly discussed. In the end, a straw poll determined there are more pros to
utilizing radiant panel test pressurized with air than cons compared to the discussed
crib test with fire hose being pressurized with water. This task group will request the
Research Foundation to perform a radiative panel test with a 3-foot section of hose
filled with air at 100 psi at 30kW/m2.
An update on the Fire Protection Research Foundation Project titled: “Fire Fighter Equipment
Operational Environment: Evaluation of Thermal Conditions” was provided by Dan Gorham
Technical Committee took a break to observe a Fire Test by the UL Firefighter Safety Research
Institute.
Technical Committee reconvened and discussed the potential conductive and radiative test
methods.
Meeting adjourned at 4:35PM on 11/15/16.
Wednesday, November 16th, 2016
Meeting called to order at 8:00 AM by Chairman Andrew Ellison
Technical Committee witnessed fire hose tests 8:00AM-10:00AM
Debrief from Dan Madrzykowski, 10:00-10:30am
A discussion on the available timeline was held to determine if the Technical Committee has the
time and expertise to develop a repeatable and reproducible test method for NFPA 1961.
Monthly conference calls will be conducted to provide updates on the progress made by the
remaining task groups.
Next in-person meeting is scheduled for March/May of 2017.