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l]BIilT JONTSARGHITEGT OFTHE MOTOWN SOUND

MD: You weren't always an R&B drum-

mer. What did you grow up listening to?

Uriel: 0h, it was all jazz: Art Blakey, and

especially Elvin Jones, who had a style

like no one else. I knew him because he

was from Detroit, and he played all over.

There was a club called the World's

Stage, which Kenny Bunell had. Elvin,

Barry Harris...all the top jazz musicians

from Detroit used to belong to this club,

and thefd have jam sessions.

I used to live in Ecorse, Michigan, and

there were a lot of clubs on MichiganRoad. I got to be in the house band, and

we had jam sessions all the time. Joe

Weaver, a rhythm and blues guy, came

in one time and asked me if I would play

with him. I explained that I was a jazz

musician, but he was still willing to go

along with me. I caught on to rhythm

and blues real quick. There's not thatmuch difference, you know. betvveen

R&B andjazz.MD: How did you get involved withMotown?

Uriel: Dave Hamilton was a blues guitarplayer who did some sessions at

Motown, and I played with him a few

times. They chose him to be Stevie

Wonde/s bandleader, so he picked me

up to be the drummer.

MD: A lot of the Funk Brothers were

at Motown.

Uriel: Yeah, Joe Hunter, Benny

Benjamin, James Jamerson, Eddie Willis,

Joe Messina, and Robert \Mhite. Pistol

was there before I was. I was the last

drummer who came. Eventually, after

86 M0DERll DRUMMER . AUGUST 2009

Benny got sick and passed, I got to do

more sessions than any drummer there.

Starting in 1965, I was in the studio just

about every day-all of [house producer]

Norman \Mhitfield's

stujf, Ashford &

Simpson....

MD: Speaking ofthe writers and

producers at

Motown, how much

input did they have

on Funk Brothers

tracks?

Uriel: Very little.See, most of the

producers,

arrangers, and writ-ers were young.

And a lot of them

weren't really music educated. So they

relied on us a lot. 0n some of the tunes,

you could almost say the musicians did

the arangements. The/d come in the

studio with just a lead sheet, and we

would create different things from that.

And these producers knew our styles ol

playing, so they partially wrote on

there what they wanted, and theycould allow us to use our imaginations

on the rest of it.MD: \Mhat did that mean in terms of the

drum parts?

Uriell You know all those Motown pick-

ups? Those are Benny Benjamin pickups.

He originated those. And they've been

sampled more than any drum pickups

ever. Those were all Benny, and they

all fit in betvveen him and James

Jamerson's bass lines.

Another thing that made a big differ-

ence in the Motonm sound is that all the

staff musicians were really jazz musi-

cians. We always said the musicians at

Motown took rock'n'roll, smoothed it out

a little bit, and added a jazz flavor. The

grooves, they just fit the Motown sound.

James Jamerson and Benny Benjamin,

their two rhythms together were the

foundation of the Motown sound.

But you know, when [Iater60sMotown keyboardist/bandleaderl EarI

Van Dyke came in, that's when the

Motown sound really got to be the

strongest. Pistol, he was noted for the

shulfle and lrle 414 beat. He was agenius with it. But anytime I say some-

body was good at this, or I was good at

that...we got aII this stuff from Benny.

Once I heard Benny play in the studio, I

tried to clone myself after him. I thinkthat's why they used me on most of the

tunes after Benny left.

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track and hear whether it was Benny Benjamin, Uriel Jones, or Pistol Allen playing on it. I played

with Uriel when I was with Eddie Kendricks, tor aboui a year and a half. He was right on the

money. See, l'm a stickler for authenticity. There are people in the audience who want to hear

this and that played exactly like they've heard it on the recording. Uriel covered that. That's what

we liked to say about him: He stuck to his guns and didn't deviate from it. And it was a pocket. He

truly made you feel it. When you played live with Uriel, it felt like you were in the studio.

What impressed me about Benjamin Corbett was that he was a thinker. He has taught me a

lot, more than he'll ever know. When I got with the Four Tops, if the guitar player did a lick, I did a

lick. lf the bass player did some kind of lick, I did a lick t0o. lt was answer, answer. When Ben

came 0n the scene, I listened to him a lot. He showed me that the focus should always be 0n the

singers, and not what you can do or how I can out-riff you" The wheel had a lot of spokes. He

showed me that you don't have to be wild to play. He played such simple stuff that the little licks

he would put in here and there stood out more. And you knew it was him playing them. There's

been many a time when we've listened to recordings of ourselves, and he makes it breathe. I've

been with him a lonq time, and he has a unique style all his own.

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the black symphony that was part of the

Local 197. Mallets and snare drum morphed

into drumset later on dourn the road.

MD: Who influenced you?

Ben: A lot of the books that I used, and

guys like Cozy Cole, Ed Thigpen-andBuddy Rich! I got a chance to meet and

hang with him on his birthday. It was the

day he held a clinic at the music store my

mom worked at. I was maybe aII of nineyears old.

During the clinic, he made a bet that

there wasn't but a handful of people inthe audience who could play eight quarter

notes evenly. And of course, nobody could

do it. A light went on then, and I've incor-porated that concept into my style ever

since.

MD: How did the original Motown tracks

dictate what you have to play on stage?

Ben: Well, Comelius Grant was the

arranger at that time. And he was the origi-

nal giuitar player with the Temptations, so

he knew what was played. You didn't wantto stray too far, but at the same time he

allowed you to express it your way, whichwas kind of neat.

MD: How would you describe Motown

drumming?

Ben: Motovrm was definitely about the feel

of the music. It was simple, which made itcomplex. To this day, that's what a lot of

guys miss. You hear four on the snare, but

when you sit down and actually start tryingto apply that four on the snare with the

syncopation of the kick drum against this

8th-note feel, all of a sudden it's not as

simple as it sounds. And every song has its

own little nuance.

Benny Benjamin was the man. He did

things that are just mind-boggling to this

day. Right-handed drummers usually start

their filIs with their right hand, but he start-

ed with his left. That's why those fills

sounded a little bit different, and that's

what makes them so hard to cop. Benny

was like the Steve Gadd of his era. He wasjust so far ahead of everybody as far as feel

and subtleness. He'd just sit there, Iook like

he wasn't doing much, and sound like he

wasn't doing much. But if you're really

intently listening, man, he's cooking! Itjust moves you.

MD: Did you practice a Iot of Benny's ideas?

Ben: It's not that I've practiced his licks, but

I take it all in with much, much respect. It's

osmosis, and it just comes out, as it comes

out, when it comes out. It's a "get out of the

way and let it happen" kind of thing.

MD: You eventually switched over to the

Tops gig. Listening to those shows, itsounds like two different drummers.

Ben: WeII, thanks, that's a compliment.

Because it wds two different groups, and

that's exactly what I was going for. The

Temptations' music, especially of that era,

was more syncopated. The Tops were more

melodic, more orchestrated and symphonic,

if you will.MD: How do you feel the drumming

has changed?

Ben: Old school was more musical to me. It

might have something to do with rap and

hip-hop. Very little chordal work is going

on. It's mostly rhythmic. old-school cats,

they can play that, but they were also more

musical, switching from bop to big band to

the Temptations and Tops, or whatever.

MD: How can someone achieve that kindof musicalitflBen: Listen, listen, listen. Listen to as many

old-school cats as you can, and not so

much to what theyre doing, but ftol4l

the/re doing it. I think an emphasis needs

to be put more on why the drummers of

that time did what they did, as opposed to

the licks that they did. It's more about whatthe music is asking for. Sometimes a space

doesn't need to be filled up. It'lI sound big-ger if nothing at aII is played, orjust one

kick note-boom-which will be fatter than

filling it up with a whole bunch of chops.

MD: \Mhat do you suggest to drummers who

want to play with soul?

Ben: took at the Funk Brothers. They did itall. They all worked around town at jazz

clubs; with big bands, bop giroups-James

Jamerson, all of them. That's why they were

breaking ground like they were. because

they played all styles of music. It wasn't just

Motown. So I listen to a little bit of every-

thing, same as I was doing before. \Mhen I

was listening to Benny Benjamin, I was also

Iistening to Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson.

Often you're able to use what you leamed

from someone later, when it makes sense. Itmight be a style that's very different. But that

concept led you to where you are. It'll serve

you well.

Drew Schultz is a drummer and percussi0nist currentlycompleting his major in performance al NYU, His focus on

soul music has led him to perform with Lenny Pickett, the

Four Tops, and the Temptations. He can be reached atdrewschultzdrums@gmail,com.

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