Martin Cloonan (University of Glasgow) Creating Live Music: An Industrial Perspective

Martin CloonanMartin Cloonan (University of Glasgow) (University of Glasgow)

Creating Live Music: Creating Live Music: An Industrial PerspectiveAn Industrial Perspective

www.gla.ac.uk/departments/livemusicprojectwww.gla.ac.uk/departments/livemusicproject//

The ProjectThe Project

The Promotion of Live Music in the UK – a The Promotion of Live Music in the UK – a Historical, Cultural and Institutional Historical, Cultural and Institutional AnalysisAnalysis

www.gla.ac.uk/departments/livemusicprojectwww.gla.ac.uk/departments/livemusicproject //

PersonnelPersonnel

ProgressProgress

Live MusicLive Music

Live Music and Popular Music StudiesLive Music and Popular Music Studies

Economic ImportanceEconomic Importance

C.I’s as economic driver, Music as part of C.I’s, Live C.I’s as economic driver, Music as part of C.I’s, Live Music more valuable than recorded, Live needs Music more valuable than recorded, Live needs organising >organising >

The PromoterThe Promoter

Live Music as part of the C.I’sLive Music as part of the C.I’s

The PromoterThe Promoter

What is a promoter?What is a promoter?

HistoryHistory

Risk takers?Risk takers?

Different typesDifferent types

Defining PromotersDefining Promoters the term ‘promoter’ is widely used in the music industry to describe the term ‘promoter’ is widely used in the music industry to describe

the person or company responsible for the physical organisation the person or company responsible for the physical organisation and presentation of a concert or festival’ and presentation of a concert or festival’ (Laing (2003: 561) (Laing (2003: 561)

Responsible for ‘hiring venues, arranging stages, sorting out public Responsible for ‘hiring venues, arranging stages, sorting out public address systems and lighting, employing caterers and security address systems and lighting, employing caterers and security personnel, advertising the show and coordinating the sale of tickets’ personnel, advertising the show and coordinating the sale of tickets’ (Negus 1992: 130)(Negus 1992: 130)

‘‘for ensuring the safety of both the public and the artist during the for ensuring the safety of both the public and the artist during the course of the gig and for conforming with licensing regulations’ course of the gig and for conforming with licensing regulations’ (Music (Music Managers Forum 2003: 23)Managers Forum 2003: 23)

‘‘financially responsible for an… event’ financially responsible for an… event’ (Kemp (Kemp et alet al 2008: xiii) 2008: xiii)

HistoryHistory 1955 – Showbiz impresarios: 1955 – Showbiz impresarios: ‘.. ‘.. it was an old boys club and Harold it was an old boys club and Harold

Davison, Lou Grade, and Tito Burns were managers and agents Davison, Lou Grade, and Tito Burns were managers and agents and promoters all at the same time in the old-fashioned way’and promoters all at the same time in the old-fashioned way’ (Boyd (Boyd 2008)2008)

1960s – New entrepreneurial class1960s – New entrepreneurial class

Student Unions - ‘The music business was built on social secs, and Student Unions - ‘The music business was built on social secs, and that’s where they learned about profit and loss, and how to deal with that’s where they learned about profit and loss, and how to deal with agents, it was a fantastic training ground’ agents, it was a fantastic training ground’ (Jenner 2008)(Jenner 2008)

Newly aware musicians – ‘Newly aware musicians – ‘‘‘what you’re really seeing the big picture what you’re really seeing the big picture was the capture of huge swaths of the towering heights of the music was the capture of huge swaths of the towering heights of the music business by middle class performers’ business by middle class performers’ (Boyd 2008)(Boyd 2008)

More HistoryMore History

1970s – mid1990s: Dominance of Recording1970s – mid1990s: Dominance of Recording

1990s: Napster and downloading1990s: Napster and downloading

2009: Era of the gig?2009: Era of the gig?

‘‘that live music experience that you can’t replicate is that live music experience that you can’t replicate is what people are buying into. And that’s what’s built the what people are buying into. And that’s what’s built the industry, that’s why it’s so big’ industry, that’s why it’s so big’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

‘‘selling a unique experience’ selling a unique experience’ (Kemp (Kemp et al et al 2009: 1-19)2009: 1-19)

EvolutionEvolution

‘‘promoters moved from being a shady individual promoters moved from being a shady individual who knew the bands, going back to the 50s and who knew the bands, going back to the 50s and 60s… . So there’s a kind of process, and I think 60s… . So there’s a kind of process, and I think you can see how promotion has changed, you can see how promotion has changed, become more structured, more organized, more become more structured, more organized, more professionalized, and much much more profit professionalized, and much much more profit orientated, as you would expect from the orientated, as you would expect from the companies becoming bigger, late capitalism, companies becoming bigger, late capitalism, service industries’ service industries’ (Williamson 2008)(Williamson 2008)

Risk?Risk? ‘‘Promoters take nearly all of the financial risk in organizing a tour or Promoters take nearly all of the financial risk in organizing a tour or

concert, usually guaranteeing artists a minimum income from concert, usually guaranteeing artists a minimum income from events. Their role includes costing events and tours, and booking events. Their role includes costing events and tours, and booking venues’ venues’ (Competition Commission 2007: 13)(Competition Commission 2007: 13)

‘… ‘… yes, it is a financial gamble, and sometimes it’s a white knuckle yes, it is a financial gamble, and sometimes it’s a white knuckle ride when there’s a lot of money on the line, and you’re looking at it, ride when there’s a lot of money on the line, and you’re looking at it, and you’re looking at how many tickets you’ve sold, and you know and you’re looking at how many tickets you’ve sold, and you know what the fee is, and you’re going, “oh no!” what the fee is, and you’re going, “oh no!” (Hobson 2008)(Hobson 2008)

‘… ‘… obviously there’s going to be the financial element of, “I really obviously there’s going to be the financial element of, “I really must break even, otherwise I’m pretty fucked”’ must break even, otherwise I’m pretty fucked”’ (McLean 2008)(McLean 2008)

‘‘I suppose it’s a bit like gambling, it’s a bit like addiction. You have I suppose it’s a bit like gambling, it’s a bit like addiction. You have one gig in 30 that actually does well enough for you to go out one gig in 30 that actually does well enough for you to go out and . . . I think the best one, I went out and bought a bicycle for my and . . . I think the best one, I went out and bought a bicycle for my son’ son’ (Deadman 2008)(Deadman 2008)

BuzzBuzz ‘‘And then it’s a great buzz when the venues And then it’s a great buzz when the venues

phone you up, or you go online, and they say, “it phone you up, or you go online, and they say, “it sold out in 7 minutes, the first Tom Waits”, you sold out in 7 minutes, the first Tom Waits”, you know, and it’s just, like, wow . . . So know, and it’s just, like, wow . . . So that’sthat’s a a high! That’s a really good thing, um. But your high! That’s a really good thing, um. But your work doesn’t stop there. Then you’ve got to do work doesn’t stop there. Then you’ve got to do what you’re paid for . . . What you’re paid for is what you’re paid for . . . What you’re paid for is two things. One, you’re taking the risk, right? two things. One, you’re taking the risk, right? ‘Cos ‘Cos youyou are the only person who is underwriting are the only person who is underwriting the show, you’re risking it all. But two, at the the show, you’re risking it all. But two, at the end you have to produce the show too; you have end you have to produce the show too; you have to come through with your promise’ to come through with your promise’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

Minimising RiskMinimising Risk ‘‘It’s all about what we’ll do next time – you plan ahead… It’s all about what we’ll do next time – you plan ahead…

it’s always like, OK, we’ll play this this time, and then it’s always like, OK, we’ll play this this time, and then next time when we come back . . . So you’re always next time when we come back . . . So you’re always thinking thinking nextnext time’ time’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

‘‘a lot of them wouldn’t phone me for Def Leppard, a lot of them wouldn’t phone me for Def Leppard, because I wouldn’t answer the call . . . I wouldn’t because I wouldn’t answer the call . . . I wouldn’t wantwant them, you know?.. People know I’m not good at them, you know?.. People know I’m not good at promoting heavy rock or hard rock.. It’s just something promoting heavy rock or hard rock.. It’s just something I’m not good at… They tend to come to me with more I’m not good at… They tend to come to me with more singer/songwriter stuff, and we’ve built up a reputation of singer/songwriter stuff, and we’ve built up a reputation of that sort of thing over the years and I’m good at placing that sort of thing over the years and I’m good at placing it, finding the right sort of venues’ it, finding the right sort of venues’ (ibid)(ibid)

Pay to play, ticket deals etcPay to play, ticket deals etc

Enthusiasts Enthusiasts ‘‘I never wanted to be (a promoter) unless it was something I wanted to put I never wanted to be (a promoter) unless it was something I wanted to put

on… But by and large, most of the gigs I’ve put on over the years have on… But by and large, most of the gigs I’ve put on over the years have made a profit. I’ve always paid people fairly, and that’s another reason I’d made a profit. I’ve always paid people fairly, and that’s another reason I’d never make it as a promoter. If you pay everyone reasonable money for never make it as a promoter. If you pay everyone reasonable money for what they’re doing, the chances of making a big profit decrease’ what they’re doing, the chances of making a big profit decrease’ (Williamson (Williamson 2008)2008)

‘‘The great character was that they were free, and they were a social thing, The great character was that they were free, and they were a social thing, you know, the performers played for free, we got the equipment for free, we you know, the performers played for free, we got the equipment for free, we did what we did for free… those are the only gigs I ever really enjoyed did what we did for free… those are the only gigs I ever really enjoyed doing, were the free ones, because you didn’t have to worry about the doing, were the free ones, because you didn’t have to worry about the budget, you didn’t have to worry about whether people had bought the budget, you didn’t have to worry about whether people had bought the tickets. You didn’t have to worry about anything except turning up on the tickets. You didn’t have to worry about anything except turning up on the day… I’ve always found when you do things for free they’re some of the day… I’ve always found when you do things for free they’re some of the nicest events because it takes a lot of pressure off. Altruism is a much nicest events because it takes a lot of pressure off. Altruism is a much underrated and undervalued, ironically undervalued, motivation. And I think underrated and undervalued, ironically undervalued, motivation. And I think altruistic motivations are often the best’ altruistic motivations are often the best’ (Jenner 2008)(Jenner 2008)

EmployeesEmployees

‘‘People, who’re, Harvey Goldsmith or whoever, People, who’re, Harvey Goldsmith or whoever, who are booking the Stones into Don Valley who are booking the Stones into Don Valley Stadium – he doesn’t do it because he likes to Stadium – he doesn’t do it because he likes to hear the Stones play: he does it because he hear the Stones play: he does it because he can earn loads of can earn loads of doshdosh out of it. Surprise, out of it. Surprise, surprise!’ surprise!’ (Deadman 2008)(Deadman 2008)

Live NationLive Nation

360 Degrees360 Degrees

Creative Promoters?Creative Promoters?

Shaping the Live ExperienceShaping the Live Experience

Motivations, audiences, artistsMotivations, audiences, artists

MotivationsMotivations ‘‘I was going out and not hearing the music I wanted to I was going out and not hearing the music I wanted to hearhear, and I thought, , and I thought,

well, the way to do that is to go out and well, the way to do that is to go out and playplay the music the music I wanted to the music the music I wanted to hear, because there’s probably some other hear, because there’s probably some other peoplepeople who want to hear this. who want to hear this. And oddly enough, I was right!’ And oddly enough, I was right!’ (Hobson 2008)(Hobson 2008)

‘‘the ethos of it was, um, very much to do something that wasn’t the ethos of it was, um, very much to do something that wasn’t likelike a a normal gig. So we didn’t want to do it in a licensed premises that puts gigs normal gig. So we didn’t want to do it in a licensed premises that puts gigs onon. So it was great because we were able to “create a space” where people . So it was great because we were able to “create a space” where people could do what they wanted, and it worked so could do what they wanted, and it worked so wellwell, it was a really brilliant , it was a really brilliant thingthing. It was the kind of thing you couldn’t . It was the kind of thing you couldn’t planplan if you set out’ if you set out’ (Electric Blanket (Electric Blanket 2008)2008)

‘‘As a promoter, I put on shows that have interesting bands that I like. I don’t As a promoter, I put on shows that have interesting bands that I like. I don’t seek to make any money out of it… I put on gigs, you know, that seek to make any money out of it… I put on gigs, you know, that II would would want to go to and that I think other want to go to and that I think other peoplepeople go to.. . I’ll put on a show that I go to.. . I’ll put on a show that I think people are going to enjoy that think people are going to enjoy that I I actually care about, otherwise I actually care about, otherwise I wouldn’t spend five hours walking around the streets in the pissing rain wouldn’t spend five hours walking around the streets in the pissing rain sticking up pieces of paper on walls’ sticking up pieces of paper on walls’ (ibid)(ibid)

AudiencesAudiences Like a dinner party?Like a dinner party?

‘‘people come to the gig, leave with a good feeling, as if they've been entertained, and people come to the gig, leave with a good feeling, as if they've been entertained, and that people cared about what they've heard and the place they've heard it in’ that people cared about what they've heard and the place they've heard it in’ (Morton (Morton 2008)2008)

‘‘we were doing things in terms of atmosphere, in terms of the kind of audience we we were doing things in terms of atmosphere, in terms of the kind of audience we drew, the kind of groups that we booked, that no one else was doing’ drew, the kind of groups that we booked, that no one else was doing’ (Boyd 2008)(Boyd 2008)

‘‘.. .. as a promoter I just like a venue, you know, where they leave you alone, and have as a promoter I just like a venue, you know, where they leave you alone, and have decent facilities, i.e. a PA that works, and that sort of thing, and reasonably priced decent facilities, i.e. a PA that works, and that sort of thing, and reasonably priced drinks’ drinks’ (Razor 2008)(Razor 2008)

‘‘Well, it’s like, it’s like a good firework display, I always think of, you know. First of all, Well, it’s like, it’s like a good firework display, I always think of, you know. First of all, don’t get lots of shitty little cheap fireworks, get a few really spectacular ones. It’s like don’t get lots of shitty little cheap fireworks, get a few really spectacular ones. It’s like anything, you kind of, you get the order, you build it up, you’ve got to think of the anything, you kind of, you get the order, you build it up, you’ve got to think of the climax and the dramatic, sort of thing’ climax and the dramatic, sort of thing’ (Deadman 2008)(Deadman 2008)

If your name’s not downIf your name’s not down ‘‘it’s tactical. So it’s either rewards or it’s people in the business or it’s tactical. So it’s either rewards or it’s people in the business or

it’s kind of compardres. Obviously you’ve got to try and keep it it’s kind of compardres. Obviously you’ve got to try and keep it small - sometimes you succeed. But on the other hand, you know small - sometimes you succeed. But on the other hand, you know almost in advance that if you have a very small guestlist it’s going to almost in advance that if you have a very small guestlist it’s going to be a poorly attended gig, you know, if nobody wants to scrounge in be a poorly attended gig, you know, if nobody wants to scrounge in on the guestlist’ on the guestlist’ (Deadman 2008)(Deadman 2008)

‘‘And I suppose also there’s certain people, thinking tactically, that And I suppose also there’s certain people, thinking tactically, that you want in your club, say like Phil Oakey from Human League is you want in your club, say like Phil Oakey from Human League is someone who sometimes pops down, so he’s someone who someone who sometimes pops down, so he’s someone who alwaysalways goes on the guestlist. So if you’ve got someone who’s basically, goes on the guestlist. So if you’ve got someone who’s basically, you’re playing their records. I mean, that’s one of the criteria, if I’m you’re playing their records. I mean, that’s one of the criteria, if I’m playing someone’s records, they get in for free’ playing someone’s records, they get in for free’ (Razor 2008)(Razor 2008)

Getting it wrong/rightGetting it wrong/right ‘‘Because you’ve let everybody down. You’ve let the Because you’ve let everybody down. You’ve let the

people that bought tickets down because the people that bought tickets down because the atmosphere won’t be that good because it’s only a atmosphere won’t be that good because it’s only a quarter full. You’ve quarter full. You’ve reallyreally let the band down because let the band down because you could have worked a bit harder so that they could you could have worked a bit harder so that they could have had a better gig, because their careers are have had a better gig, because their careers are depending on it’ depending on it’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

‘‘if you’re purely live music, you if you’re purely live music, you areare just selling something just selling something totally on the artist, sort of thing, so it’s right, there’s this totally on the artist, sort of thing, so it’s right, there’s this band who’ve got a profile, you’re advertising that.. so band who’ve got a profile, you’re advertising that.. so people who’ve heard of that band will come, whereas as people who’ve heard of that band will come, whereas as a club/live music promoter, I’m selling my night as an a club/live music promoter, I’m selling my night as an experience’ experience’ (Razor 2008)(Razor 2008)

Educating?Educating? ‘‘I like to give people something they haven’t seen before, sort of thing… when I book I like to give people something they haven’t seen before, sort of thing… when I book

touring bands I try to book ones that have never played in Sheffield before, or the touring bands I try to book ones that have never played in Sheffield before, or the type of bands who wouldn’t normally fit in at The Leadmill, or the Academy or Plug, or type of bands who wouldn’t normally fit in at The Leadmill, or the Academy or Plug, or wherever.. we try to give the audience something different, something that’s going to wherever.. we try to give the audience something different, something that’s going to entertain them, and something they’re going to go away and talk about’ entertain them, and something they’re going to go away and talk about’ (Razor 2008)(Razor 2008)

‘‘I suppose it’s a bit like the, without sounding too pompous about it, it’s a bit like the I suppose it’s a bit like the, without sounding too pompous about it, it’s a bit like the Reith-ian principles of the BBC – you know, education, enlightenment, Reith-ian principles of the BBC – you know, education, enlightenment, and . . .entertainment, that’s it. You want to entertain people, you want them, you and . . .entertainment, that’s it. You want to entertain people, you want them, you want them to say, “oh wow, I’ve never seen that band before, they were great, check want them to say, “oh wow, I’ve never seen that band before, they were great, check them out’ them out’ (ibid)(ibid)

‘‘I mean, I mean, mymy tactic often is to try and get people to listen to people they wouldn’t tactic often is to try and get people to listen to people they wouldn’t normally listen to, or haven’t even heard.. It’s a kind of educational… that sounds a bit normally listen to, or haven’t even heard.. It’s a kind of educational… that sounds a bit patronising. But you know, you try to introduce people to good roots music’ patronising. But you know, you try to introduce people to good roots music’ (Deadman (Deadman 2008)2008)

‘‘I mean I’m not some kind of elitist, I didn’t want necessarily a niche audience, but I I mean I’m not some kind of elitist, I didn’t want necessarily a niche audience, but I did want people there who knew and would really appreciate the music, and that’s did want people there who knew and would really appreciate the music, and that’s what I got. I was really happy about, and that actually mattered more to me than what I got. I was really happy about, and that actually mattered more to me than breaking even’ breaking even’ (McLean 2008)(McLean 2008)

How to treat musiciansHow to treat musicians ‘‘I think it’s I think it’s importantimportant to make them feel welcome and wanted and to make them feel welcome and wanted and

part of everything.. we’ll always cook for them’ part of everything.. we’ll always cook for them’ (Hobson 2008)(Hobson 2008)

‘‘They’ll remember that they were well looked after… I think if they're They’ll remember that they were well looked after… I think if they're relaxed and there's minimum hassle, they're calmer. Whether they relaxed and there's minimum hassle, they're calmer. Whether they play better or not, I don't know, maybe some bands would be better play better or not, I don't know, maybe some bands would be better totally hyped up and annoyed’ (totally hyped up and annoyed’ (Morton 2008)Morton 2008)

‘‘I always make sure that everybody leaves them alone for at least I always make sure that everybody leaves them alone for at least 30 minutes before they go on. Seal the room off, let them chill out 30 minutes before they go on. Seal the room off, let them chill out and get ready for the performance. There’s plenty of time to talk to and get ready for the performance. There’s plenty of time to talk to them afterwards, and afterwards they’ll quite enjoy talking to you, so them afterwards, and afterwards they’ll quite enjoy talking to you, so you can have a chat with them at soundcheck or teatime and then you can have a chat with them at soundcheck or teatime and then just leave them and then that’s when they do their work, they put just leave them and then that’s when they do their work, they put their minds to what songs they’re going to sing’ their minds to what songs they’re going to sing’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

More hospitalityMore hospitality ‘‘it’s really important that these bands feel like they’ve been looked it’s really important that these bands feel like they’ve been looked

after, and that they’ve enjoyed their experience, so that they’ll come after, and that they’ve enjoyed their experience, so that they’ll come back. ‘Cos if they have a bad experience, they’ll say, “we’re not back. ‘Cos if they have a bad experience, they’ll say, “we’re not going back going back therethere again”’ again”’ (Pearce 2008)(Pearce 2008)

‘‘We’ve been requested all sorts of things, like, you know a mask. We’ve been requested all sorts of things, like, you know a mask. The [name of band] wanted a mask, ‘cos they were collecting them The [name of band] wanted a mask, ‘cos they were collecting them on their way round, which we did, and they thought it was amazing. on their way round, which we did, and they thought it was amazing. We’ve been asked for a crossbow, arrows with flights, and five times We’ve been asked for a crossbow, arrows with flights, and five times drugs! [laughs] We didn’t supply drugs! [laughs] We didn’t supply thatthat, but, you know, it’s those little , but, you know, it’s those little tiny details, and actually giving it to them. Like giving them their tiny details, and actually giving it to them. Like giving them their local paper, and their national paper, and a packet of fags, or, you local paper, and their national paper, and a packet of fags, or, you know. At the end of the show, taking them a bottle of champagne, know. At the end of the show, taking them a bottle of champagne, and saying, “Oh, that was brilliant. Oh, we loved it”’ and saying, “Oh, that was brilliant. Oh, we loved it”’ (Pearce 2008)(Pearce 2008)

Business SenseBusiness Sense ‘‘at the end of the day bands talk to other bands on the circuit, ‘cos I quite often gets at the end of the day bands talk to other bands on the circuit, ‘cos I quite often gets

bands emailing me or calling me up and saying “my friend in such and such a band bands emailing me or calling me up and saying “my friend in such and such a band did a gig for you last month – can we come and play?”, which is really nice. I think at did a gig for you last month – can we come and play?”, which is really nice. I think at the end of the day, it’s like any scene, it’s you know, it’s a bit cliquey, a bit incestuous the end of the day, it’s like any scene, it’s you know, it’s a bit cliquey, a bit incestuous and I think if you mess people around and you’re not straight with them and you treat and I think if you mess people around and you’re not straight with them and you treat them badly, it gets out and I think it kind of comes back on you, so I think it’s them badly, it gets out and I think it kind of comes back on you, so I think it’s important to look after bands’ important to look after bands’ (Razor 2008)(Razor 2008)

‘‘giving them a better gig than they could do if they kind of arranged it themselves, you giving them a better gig than they could do if they kind of arranged it themselves, you know, in terms of playing to a good audience and the gig being promoted properly know, in terms of playing to a good audience and the gig being promoted properly and, you know, them getting looked after, and getting paid, at least to cover their and, you know, them getting looked after, and getting paid, at least to cover their costs, at the very least. It’s about looking after the artist, ‘cos I think at the end of the costs, at the very least. It’s about looking after the artist, ‘cos I think at the end of the day, even if you’ve got no money, you can still provide hospitality, sort of thing. So, I day, even if you’ve got no money, you can still provide hospitality, sort of thing. So, I think it’s important, because I’ve played in bands myself and we used to do gigs – think it’s important, because I’ve played in bands myself and we used to do gigs – you’d spend 5 hours driving to Norwich and get there, and all there would be would you’d spend 5 hours driving to Norwich and get there, and all there would be would be a few curly sandwiches and a family pack of supermarket own brand crisps and be a few curly sandwiches and a family pack of supermarket own brand crisps and some warm lager to greet you’ some warm lager to greet you’ (ibid) (ibid)

‘‘Artists’ royalties are drying up, and the managers’ incomes are drying up, so they Artists’ royalties are drying up, and the managers’ incomes are drying up, so they phone them at that mansion in, whatever, in Essex, and say: “Get fucking out on the phone them at that mansion in, whatever, in Essex, and say: “Get fucking out on the road, we need to make money!”’ road, we need to make money!”’ (Mackie 2008)(Mackie 2008)

Creative Accounting?Creative Accounting? ‘…‘…what the promoters have told bands isn’t necessarily the truth. what the promoters have told bands isn’t necessarily the truth.

Because if you have a deal against costs, for example, you’re Because if you have a deal against costs, for example, you’re getting paid 80% of gross income less costs. If the promoter says getting paid 80% of gross income less costs. If the promoter says they’ve spent £2500 on flyposting, maybe they have maybe they they’ve spent £2500 on flyposting, maybe they have maybe they haven’t, it’s always in their interests to up the costs, and there’s just haven’t, it’s always in their interests to up the costs, and there’s just not enough time in the world for a tour manager to demand to sit not enough time in the world for a tour manager to demand to sit and see receipts for everything. So I’m sure again, what they tell the and see receipts for everything. So I’m sure again, what they tell the bands might be different from what their actual bottom line is’ bands might be different from what their actual bottom line is’ (Williamson 2008)(Williamson 2008)

‘‘the tour manager needs to have a counter and be counting people the tour manager needs to have a counter and be counting people on the door and be walking around. Then you can contest . . . Like, on the door and be walking around. Then you can contest . . . Like, posters cost 30 quid, and they actually only cost three quid, and . . . posters cost 30 quid, and they actually only cost three quid, and . . . security cost this, etc. And you know, you have to be on that kind of security cost this, etc. And you know, you have to be on that kind of level’ level’ (West 2008) (West 2008)

Dirtiness and creativityDirtiness and creativity

‘‘It It isis a a nastynasty back-stabbing business. . . back-stabbing business. . . oh, it’s a horrible business’ oh, it’s a horrible business’ (Wilson 2008, (Wilson 2008, emphasis Wilson)emphasis Wilson)

Key issue = ‘how firms, industries and Key issue = ‘how firms, industries and society at large organise for creativity’ society at large organise for creativity’ (Lorenzen 2009: 93) (Lorenzen 2009: 93)