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SAUL MARANEY: It is 9h35 p.m. in Johannesburg, South Africa.
09h35 a.m. in Hawaii
and today is the 12th of August 2007. This is Saul Maraney and I
would like to introduce my
special guest, Mabel Katz, author of the fascinating book, The
Easiest Way. The Easiest
Way is a practical guide for applying spiritual principles to
get past blocks of obtaining what
you want in your life. It is based on Ho`oponopono, an ancient
problem solving art from the
Hawaiian culture, which teaches that life in fact can be easy.
This is what Dr Joe Vitale,
the co-author of Zero Limits has to say about The Easiest Way.
This is the clearest
explanation of Ho`oponopono that I have ever seen. The book is
in-depth and at the same
time concise, with examples of how to apply Ho`oponopono in our
daily lives. Originally
from Argentina, Mabel is a powerful woman, and in addition to
being bilingual, Mabel excels
in two totally opposite careers. In her first career, Mabel has
built a reputation of
excellence as an accountant, where she helps her clients with
audit and tax problems, and
as a Business Consultant where she is dedicated to helping
people create successful
companies. It is her second career that she says really turns
her on, as a radio host,
speaker, author and Los Angeles TV host of her own show. On her
shows, Mabel shares
her knowledge and wisdom of Hooponopono. Mabels first training
with Dr Hew Len was
back in 1997, and since then, she has worked very closely with
him. Mabel travels around
the world talking about her book, fascinating large audiences
with her knowledge of
Hooponopono. For many years she has been a Foundation of I -
Self I-Dentity through
Hooponopono seminar leader, and now, she has been given
permission by Dr Len and the
Foundation to share this information independently, especially
in the Latin American
countries. Mabels work can be found at www.businessbyyou.com
and
www.hooponopono.org and www.mabelkatz.com.
All around the world, especially since the wonderful movie, The
Secret came out, many
people are beginning to wake up, and I am especially grateful
that Dr Joe Vitale has found
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out about Hooponopono, and he is now letting the whole world
know about it. He says that
Hooponopono is the missing secret. So, Mabel, please could you
begin by explaining;
What is Hooponopono? What does this Hawaiian word mean? and What
does
Hooponopono mean to you?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, well, I thank you for this opportunity Saul.
Ho`oponopono has really
changed my life. I did a lot of searching, I tried a lot of
different methods and procedures I
would say, but I thought there was something missing. I knew
there had to be an easier
and faster way. And I did find it in Ho`oponopono, which is a
very ancient art of problem
solving. Basically, Hooponopono means how to correct an error.
And errors means all
those memories of opinions and judgements, all those programs we
accumulate through
our life. You know when we think we are right, what we think is
right and wrong, what we
think is correct or incorrect. And basically, how to let go. I
define Ho`oponopono as the
delete key in our computers.
SAUL MARANEY: Yes
MABEL KATZ: And when the programme comes out in the monitor, you
can just use
Hooponopono, the delete key. Everything that doesnt work in your
life, you can just erase
it. That is the possibility that Ho`oponopono is giving us. And
basically Saul, when
something comes out in the monitor, you know, that doesnt work,
I mean it is not the
monitor, it is just the programme, so we can talk to the monitor
all day long, but the monitor
cannot do anything. We just need to go to the delete key.
SAUL MARANEY: Right, and would you please describe some of the
practices that you
did before you discovered Hooponopono ten years ago?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, well I did a lot of things you know. I was
trying to do channelling, you
know, because I wanted to hear and I wanted to see, and then I
tried a lot of different
meditation techniques. I went to a lot of different kinds of
seminars, where they use
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different kinds of methods, but especially, and what it brought
me to Ho`oponopono was
Re-birthing. Something that has helped me a lot before, trying
Ho`oponopono was Rebirthing.
Re-birthing, because Sandra Ray, one of the founders of
Re-birthing, actually she
met Morrnah Simeona. She used to bring a lot of Ho`oponopono to
her training, and that is
how I found out about it.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And in your book you talk about the fact
that happiness only
comes from within. When you found Hooponopono, How did you know
that this had been
what you were looking for?
MABEL KATZ: Well because, you know, whenever you do a training,
you do something,
you look like you are always missing something and that there is
always somebody else
out there that knows more than you. In Hooponopono, it is about
you connecting directly
to The Source. The Source that created you. The Source that
knows you better than
anybody. The Source that is inside of you, and has all the
solutions to all your problems,
and all the answers to all your questions. So is not about
depending on anybody else
outside of yourself, it is just to be remembering. Ho`oponopono
I always say, reminds
people of something they forgot. The power we have inside of
ourselves to change our
lives, without depending on anybody else outside of
ourselves.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And from reading your book, The Easiest Way
and the book
Zero Limit and listening to Dr Len on News for the Soul, a big
theme that comes across
is the idea of taking 100% responsibility for whatever appears
in our lives. Can you expand
on this and really explain what happens when we do take 100%
responsibility?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes. Saul, I say 100% responsibility is the
easiest way, thats the
name of my book. Because we realise that again, like I said
before, that which we created,
we can change it. We always feel belittled, we feel victims, we
feel poor us because we
are always thinking that we depend on this, on somebody else to
change, somebody else
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to do, and things like that, in order for us to be happy. Here
it is about that I created it, I
can change it. I have all the power to change it, and it is all
up to me. I do take 100%
responsibility for things to start changing. I change,
everything changes. So we are always
at work, always in on the family, always waiting for somebody
else to change, or do things
for us to be happy, or for things to get better. And this is
actually all the wrong way around,
because when we change, everything changes.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And Hooponopono has many tools to help us
take good care
of ourselves, and that is something that Dr Len talks a lot
about. He said that the most
important thing is to know who we are, and to take good care of
ourselves. Can you
describe what this means? Does it mean putting ourselves
first?
MABEL KATZ: Exactly! That is something Saul, which had meaning
in my life. You
know, especially as mothers, we think. you know; Well now we
have kids, and now the
kids come first. We do things to please people and when we learn
to put ourselves first, to
take good care of ourselves, like I said before, when we change,
everything changes. If we
are okay, then everybody is okay. I learned to take good care of
myself, do what works for
me, so if I am okay, then my kids are going to be okay, and when
we do things to please
other people, or we do things that dont work for us, we have to
know that if it doesnt work
for us, it is not going to work for others. So in the case of
motherhood, if I do things
because of my kids, and it doesnt work for me, then its not
going to work for my kids.
SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting You make reference to the fact
that the intellect
thinks that it knows what is going on and what is best for us,
but it is only our heart that
knows. Are you suggesting that if something feels good in our
heart, we go for it and we do it, and if it doesnt, we should leave
it alone?MABEL KATZ: Exactly, exactly. It comes more from our heart
and our feelings than from
our intellect, because our intellect really doesnt know. And one
thing that I have learned is,
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that you know; The intellect wasnt created to know things, which
we have misunderstood
somehow. The intellect is the part of us that has a choice. It
is always making a choice,
you know? You can insult me and I can choose to take the insult,
or let it go, or you can give me a compliment and I can still
choose to take it or not. I can accept it or not. So we are always
choosing. We just have to realise that we always have that minute
or that
second in the day to choose. Things are going to happen; things
are going to come into
our lives. What are we going to do with that? - This is the key.
Are we going to let go, or we
are going to engage? Are we going to worry and think how we are
going to resolve it, or
are we going to let go? And Hooponopono is about letting go.
SAUL MARANEY: Right, and the moment that stuff comes up for us,
we can either
choose to let go and let God take care of it, or we can engage
with our minds and thoughts
and try and solve it ourselves.
MABEL KATZ: Exactly.
SAUL MARANEY: Can you describe how you go about it when
something comes up in
your accounting practice and what goes through your conscious
mind before you can
actually decide to let go?
MABEL KATZ: Yes. You know regarding my profession, you know that
being an
accountant and being a business consultant, I have to tell you
that clients just come to me.
I have never advertised. I never tell people that I am an
accountant. They find out. And it is
usually by word of mouth or people who refer people. And because
they come to me, I
usually dont say no, because I am thinking that The Universe is
bringing them to me to give me one more chance, to give me one more
opportunity to do my cleaning, how we callit in Hooponopono; To do
my erasing. If people come with problems, it is within me, it is
not them. It is just the programs! So I just need to get to the
programs. I just need to eraseon the programs. I have to share with
you that I am right now in Hawaii, and not because I
live here. I live in Los Angeles, but right now I am helping
somebody with an IRS Audit, a
Government Audit here in Hawaii. And basically, my specialities
are a lot of this, because of
the results that I get by taking 100% responsibility. Its not my
clients problem, you know,
this is an opportunity for me to clean, to take that 100%
responsibility. And the results with
Auditors is amazing, because when I practice this as much as I
can, I keep my mouth shut. You know that one of the problems is
that we talk, and that is what gets us in trouble.I take 100%
responsibility. I just do my cleaning while I am in the audit and
everything, and
I can tell you amazing stories of the results that nobody can
believe. But it is about letting go, and letting God handle the
audit instead of myself. Instead of me thinking that because
I have a degree or because I am smart that I am going to solve
that. So the idea is how to
get out of our own ways, because we are our worst obstacles in
our own lives.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew! And can you talk a little bit about the
subconscious mind, The
inner child which holds all our memories and programmes?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, sure. What we need to know is that one of the
most important
relationships we have to really take care of, is the one with
our inner child. The inner child
is our subconscious, and this is the one that is holding all
these programmes and all these
memories. So its about creating a relationship with this inner
child, and you can assure this
inner child that you are not going to abandon him or her
anymore. You are aware, you are
sorry for the times that you did. This inner child will actually
do this cleaning for you if you
really commit. I always tell people that it is really important
to ride one horse. No matter
what that is. For some people it might be going to the Church on
Sunday and that is okay.
But whatever it is, you have to ride one horse, because
otherwise that part of you gets
confused and when the problem comes out, what are we going to
do? So if you are
consistent for example with this cleaning, this child, the
subconscious mind that actually
does the breathing for you without you having to think, is going
to do the cleaning too for
you.
SAUL MARANEY: But sometimes when we try too many different tools
and we are
thinking about which seminar to implement, the subconscious
child gets confused and
doesnt know how to do it by itself as it regulates our breathing
for us.
MABEL KATZ: Exactly! Because it says: Okay, now that I have this
problem, what am I
going to use? You know, the lessons that I learned two weeks ago
in that seminar, or the
one that I just learned? So I am not saying that this is the
only way, but I am just saying that
whatever you are doing and it works for you, you have to keep
doing that. So for me to find
Hooponopono, I am seeing that this is what I was looking for. It
gave me a lot of peace of mind, it gave me not only the tools, but
it gave me the peace of mind to know that I created it, so I can
change it. I mean, thats incredible. Because right now, we are
completelyasleep, and we are think we are in control. We think that
we know what is going on, and
we really dont. We really dont, and this is an amazing way of
really letting go and letting
God. Realising that we dont know everything and that only God
knows.
SAUL MARANEY: I think that is very exciting. From my reading and
what I have learnt
about Hooponopono, one of the things that really gripped me is
that we dont know what is
going on. And when our intellect tries to decide and work out
everything and question it, we
can feel ourself going in the wrong direction. I understand
Mabel, that the intellect cannot
communicate with The Divine, but it can make the choice to let
go rather than trying to
solve all the problems by itself. Can you explain what happens
when the intellect makes
this critical choice to let go?
MABEL KATZ: Oh it is really amazing. Your life really changes.
You know, I needed to
understand it also. I have a very thinking mind, and I also want
to know and understand.
But when I realised that I didnt need to know anything, that I
didnt need to understand anything, that is really when freedom
came. And the idea is that what we need to know istrust. The
intellect cannot connect directly with God. This is something that
the intellect will
never understand. And this is how Ho`oponopono works, or why it
works. The intellect will
never understand it, and I always say to people: Dont try to
understand it. Just, if it feels
right to you in your heart, you do it, and if it is not for you,
you let go. But the intellect will
tell you a lot of things, and the intellect doesnt know what God
is. It has never seen It,
never communicated with It, and never will. But the inner child,
the subconscious mind
knows exactly. So when you can connect with this, and you start
having some
experiences, some things will start happening to you, that you
will think: Wow! Can it be
that we are so powerful that we can really change our lives like
this? And the intellect starts
letting go, starts accepting. You know? Sometimes, even myself,
you know, find myself
having this conversation with my inner child saying: Hey, we
have seen how God works,
we know that God can take care of this. If this is maybe too big
or too much for us, why
dont we let go? Why dont we just concentrate on doing the
cleaning and allowing God to
take care of my problems? So you know, the times that I see this
working the most is when
I really let go. So I consciously, 100%, just let go, and I
trust, and I trust that maybe it will
not come in the form or the time that I am expecting it to, but
that God knows exactly how
and when is the perfect time.SAUL MARANEY: Phew! So we think we
know exactly what is going on and we tell God
exactly what we want, the colour of the car and when we want it,
and when it doesnt arrive,
we feel that God isn't listening to us. Are you saying that by
having expectations, we miss
out on many opportunities that may in fact be perfect for us
from God?
MABEL KATZ: Exactly, you know when all this started to make
sense and started
working in my life, was when I let go of expectations. Actually,
I was one of those students
that went to my teacher, and I said, You know what? I cleaned
and I cleaned, and this
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doesnt work. And he didnt say anything, but then he came back
and said no
expectations. And since then Saul, is that I swear by
Ho`oponopono, because here when
we do something, we arent expecting certain results. And when
you realise that you dont know what is right and perfect for you,
and when is right and perfect for you, and you let go, you will be
amazed. You will be so surprised of the way that God works. Now
sometimespeople perceive God as a concierge, you know, we tell him
what we want, when we want it,
and when it doesnt show up that way, we say: See, we are not
heard, or this is not
working. But the thing is that everything that is perfect and
right for us is right there,
sometimes right in front of us, and we dont see it because we
are stuck in the expectation.
We are stuck with; How is it going to come? And it doesnt come
that way, then we say;
This doesnt work.
SAUL MARANEY: And you Mabel are a business consultant, and an
accountant, and I am
sure that all of this was a little bit weird for you too when
you first started finding out about
it. But now you know in your heart that these tools really do
work.
MABEL KATZ: Saul if it feels weird for you, for me it is still
weird. You know, for my kids,
its still weird. Like my youngest son said one day: Yeah mum, I
know this is weird, but it
works.
SAUL MARANEY: Can you talk a little bit about the basic
Ho`oponopono cleaning tools,
the I love You and that process, and how that works?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, yes, Saul, there are two basic and very
important tools in Ho`oponopono like Thank You and I love You. So
basically you know, you have heardabout loving your enemies and
showing the other cheek. So Ho`oponopono is about showing the cheek
of love, and also you know, thanking our enemies. Our enemies are
our
problems; We are not cleaning not to have problems. While we are
going to be here,
problems are going to come, so the idea is: What are you going
to do when they come? So
really, problems are just an opportunity. So if you let go,
amazing doors will open, and amazing things will come to you, and
you wont have to go that way anymore. So its aboutthat we create
with our thoughts, so that is why its so powerful that instead of
thinking: How am I going to resolve this? or Who am I going to
blame? or How come she did this to me, that I am such a good girl?
If you get into just the cleaning in your mind, sometimes
you are not going to feel like saying I Love You, you know, to
the other person, or saying Thank You. But if you are just willing
to repeat it in your mind Thank You, Thank You,
Thank You or I Love You, I Love You, I Love You. You know, even
if you dont feel it, this works. You do not need to feel it. The I
love You or Thank You are just some passcodes. Its a pass word to
go into the programs. So the idea is that when things come,
then
its just an opportunity for it to work, to take 100%
responsibility by saying I am sorry, please forgive me for whatever
is in me that has created this. So we are not coming fromguilt, we
are not coming from, you know, that we are sinners. We are coming
from, that
there is a program. It is not us; it is just a program that is
playing. And we have the ability to
stop it. When we say Thank You or I love You, then this is what
we are doing. We are
taking 100% responsibility by saying I am sorry. Please forgive
me for whatever is in me
that created it, and by just saying Thank You or I love You is
that we are doing all that,
and something amazing happens. The program stops. But we are
giving permission to God
to erase that. We are not the ones erasing, it but we are giving
permission. And we never
know what we are erasing. We think we are working on our
problem, or maybe on our boss
or somebody, or something someone said. It doesnt matter what it
is, it is just a program,
and the problems come only to give us one more chance. The
chance to take 100%
responsibility and say: Im sorry. Please forgive me for whatever
is in me that created this.
SAUL MARANEY: Very nice, and we all have inner voices that talk
to us, perhaps are
saying that we are not good enough, or the mental chatter. And I
want to ask you about
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going to bed. Is it very advantageous to use the cleaning tools
as we are falling asleep in
bed so that we can clean in our sleep?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, I found that, you know, this cleaning can
really go on for twenty four
hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year, and that is
what we really want. We
want it to be in our hearts. I find myself even cleaning during
dreams, you know, just
remembering the dream. But I also use it a lot to go to sleep,
because sometimes you
know, like you said, those voices that tell us bad things about
other people, the how
comes? or the worries that we have of: How are we going to make
it tomorrow? or How
the money is going to come to pay the rent? Or whatever it is.
So I find myself always
going to sleep by cleaning. So whatever it is that I am
concerned about, I am making sure
that, you know, I dont get in the way. And sometimes you get
this all in a dream.
Sometimes it gets resolved, you know, unexpectedly, and
solutions just comes as I am
getting up in the morning or during the night or during the next
day. But the idea is that we
want to do this cleaning all the time. You know, maybe saying
Thank You and I love
You might look really simple and easy and yes it is easy, but
what is difficult is how to do it
all the time. How not to react, how not to blame, how not to
think. So this is something that
we want to do day and night.
SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting. So when we have a problem, we
sometimes think that
we will let go, but we keep on worrying and we keep on trying to
work it out for ourselves.
And Dr Len said that we can only serve one master at a time:
Inspiration or memories. And
if we are thinking too much or worrying, does that actually
prevent God from coming in and
helping us with our problems?
MABEL KATZ: Totally! You know the one thing that we can do when
a problem comes out
is clean or worry. Because when we do that, we are actually
telling God: Let me handle it, I
know better. Because what is happening, is that God is only
asking us to take good care of
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ourselves and say Im sorry for whatever. We dont need to know
what this is. Nothing.
But that is giving God permission to take care of the problem.
God gave us a gift, and
thats free will. We are always choosing. We are going to do it
ourselves, or we are going to
give it to God? Are we going to do it our way, or are we going
to do it Gods way? So we
are always choosing, and God will not invade our privacy. So, we
actually have to give
permission. We actually have to ask. We actually have to know
that God will help us, or He
will not, because He has created us. So the idea is that as soon
as we give permission to
God, you know, this is not about today. It is not about go away,
I am working, or This is
my nap time, or We are closed, come back tomorrow. This is
something that works 24
hours a day, and it has to work. It is a natural law of The
Universe. When you ask, the
answer comes, when you knock, the door opens. Theres no I dont
feel like it today you
know?
SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting. Mabel, do memories get erased
every time we use
the Ho`oponopono cleaning tools?
MABEL KATZ: Can you say that again Saul?
SAUL MARANEY: Do memories get erased every time we use the
Ho`oponopono
cleaning tools?
MABEL KATZ: I think, I am sure that there are other methods. I
am sure people probably
that are listening have different ways of doing it. Maybe they
are doing it in a different way
and they didnt even know they are actually applying
Ho`oponopono. I think that there are
different ways of doing it. But, definitely, there is no way
that thinking or worrying will erase
programs, or something like that. It is about letting go.
Somehow you find that it works for
you when you are really letting go. Letting go, especially of
opinions, judgments, you know,
ideas. The thing that we would rather be dead right, you know,
have the last word. It
doesnt matter that we are dead, but we were right.
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SAUL MARANEY: So when Dr Len cured that entire ward of the
criminally insane at the Hawaii State Hospital in the late
eighties, using Ho`oponopono and not seeing any one of
them on a one to one basis, was that because he took full
responsibility for whatever he saw in those patients, knowing that
in some way a programme or memory in him had been
responsible for creating it, and by him opening up the door for
God, that is what cured
them?
MABEL KATZ: Exactly! What happened is that he knew that the
problem wasnt with the other people, you know on the patient, but
the problem was with him. The problem wasntthe criminally insane
people, it wasnt him, it was a program. So somebody had to get
to
the program. Somebody had to work on the program. Whatever is in
me that has created that. So he would work on these programs even
before showing up to work, then showingup at the hospital, you
understand? He cleaned during, he cleaned after, and he didnt
even work directly with the patient. It wasnt like a usual
session, you know, where he sees
the patient and he is listening to their stories or what they
have to say. But working on
himself and the memories, and the programmes that caused them.
Whatever got erased
from him got erased from them too. Thats why this thing is so
important for family relations,
or any business, or whatever. Whatever gets erased from me, it
gets erased from everybody else. Thats the beauty of it. So you can
do this work even from home, youwant to do it from home, you want
to do it before you get up, you want to do it before you
pick up the phone to call back clients, or call them first. You
always have to be constantly cleaning. Be cleaning always. You dont
want to wait for something to show up to do that.He (Dr Len) didnt
have to be in the presence of the patients to see the changes,
because
when he took responsibility and erased those programs, they got
erased from the patients
too.
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SAUL MARANEY: Very interesting, And Mabel, what is the message
here for Healers
from this story and from what Dr Len achieved? Is it that they
have to work on themselves,
and clients actually come to them so that they can work on
themselves to heal the clients?
MABEL KATZ: I would say that its about knowing that the problem
is not in the patient.
The problem is not, you know, out there, or your kids or your
boss, its just a program. So
when you take 100% responsibility, again, you can erase them
before they even show up.
So then you are going to say: Oh, this doesnt work. But what
happens is, that you dont know what would have showed up, if you
didnt do the cleaning. You are never going to know of the things
that you avoid from coming, that you prevented from coming
becauseyou did the cleaning.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew so Mabel, each time Ho`oponopono is used and
you make
that conscious decision not to engage, even though we may not
see any results straight
away, we could have been preventing something much worse from
coming that has been
cleared now.
MABEL KATZ: That is a lot of my experience, a lot of my
experience. And sometimes its
by confirmation, you know, in the meditation or something like
that, things come what we
think are bad, then we realise what could have happened without
the cleaning. And believe
me, it could have been much, much worse. But again, its that
judgement part of us that thinks it knows or thinks that it knows
what it good, and what is bad.
SAUL MARANEY: So only God knows what memories we are letting go
of when we
clean, and I have heard you and Dr Len talk a lot about it, and
you said again today, that
we dont treat God as a servant, but we allow God to help us.
When we allow God to help
us and those memories get erased, can you explain how that works
in simple terms so that
I can better understand that?
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MABEL KATZ: Yes, again this is not about understanding, because
the intellect will never get it. Okay? So we have to forget from
that part. But basically, like I said before, peoplethat come into
our lives, its just the person, you know, pushing the buttons, or
you know,
that person triggering something in us. They are triggering
actually, those are programs in
us that we play. Now, those programs are always playing.
Sometimes we explain it like this:
If you can imagine a CD playing music. So we hear, and we know
that thats a problem, or
How am I going to pay the rent?, or What am I going to do with
my kids that dont listen
to me?, or What am I going to do with my boss that is not
treating me well? So no matter
what it is, is just what we call a memory. Its just a CD
playing. Now sometimes the CD
player has the volume down, so we are not consciously aware, but
the problem is already
there. The data is always playing, the CD is always playing. So
somebody comes and
suddenly puts the volume up, we are aware that something has
come up, and we think that
is what we are cleaning with, that person or that situation. But
we never know. Something
just triggers, it just makes us more aware. When we just go to
the cleaning, always, always
that CD is stopped. Always! Even if we cannot hear it or feel
it, even if we cannot see it. We
cannot tell. It always stops! That it is God erasing, and God
knows what we are ready to let
go of at that time. So, a lot of those CDs or memories are
interrelated. So maybe when
you say Thank you, I dont know, maybe thousands of memory go
right there. But that,
only God knows. Only God knows what we are ready to let go of.
Some people say: How
come you cant let go of everything at once? Yes, God could do
that, but our bodies are
also memories, so we will go like poof. You understand what I
mean? We couldnt take it,
if all the memories would go at once.
SAUL MARANEY: So Mabel, thats the secret to seeing Ho`oponopono
working in our life
is really not expecting to see any specific results, and
admitting to ourselves that we dont
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know exactly what is going on in our life, and really allowing
God to guide us, and leave it in
His hands.
MABEL KATZ: That is my experience Saul. I always tell people if
I could have written the list of the things that I wanted, I would
not have a quarter of what I have right now in all areas of my
life. So, the idea is that you will love to realise that there is
somebody that knows better than you, and that knows exactly what
you need, and when you need it. So,somebody is always taking care
of you, protecting you, if you allow it. If you give
permission. So I feel it, because I also did a lot of those
seminars when you write the list,
and also when you have to feel like it is already happening, but
what you need to realise is
that while you are doing that, there are millions of memories
and programmes running at
the same time that you are thinking positive. And at the same
time that you are making the
list, and at the same time that you are feeling that you already
have that car or that you
have the house or that husband or wife. I mean, we are not in
control at all. We fool
ourselves thinking we are. And I agree that those things work,
because we are that
powerful. But what if I ask for something that wasnt right for
me? Why not let God do it?
God can do that for us if we give permission. And when you let
God God knows better
than us. Again, when we need Him, then we need to let Him in.
So, we need to go back to
being like children, like it says: To go back home, we need to
become children. We need
to start playing more. Again, let go of so many opinions and
judgements, and allow God,
and play with God. Ihaleakala says that God has a great sense of
humour. Its great to
hang out with God, you know? So the idea is that we need to go
back to Him. We need to
go back to that. We need to also stop thinking that there is
somebody out there on the
earth, that knows better about our life. Nobody does!
SAUL MARANEY: And in your book, you talk a lot about being happy
and grateful, and
what wonders that works. How does that tie in with
Ho`oponopono?
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MABEL KATZ: Well basically, looking at things and being grateful
because you know
there are opportunities for you to clean, and that if you clean,
you will be highly rewarded in every way. The idea is that even if
you dont feel attracted to Hooponopono, I always saidthat going to
the gratitude state where you can and I know there are a lot of
things that
could be happening to you, but I am sure that if you pause for a
second and you say: What
are the things that I can be grateful for? You will be amazed of
the things. And usually,
that energy of gratitude, definitely puts you on another level.
You see, we always want to
be on a level where we are above our problems. And we dont
engage, and we dont think
we are the problem. We are much more than that. We are above
that. So gratitude usually
puts you above the problem, so that you can better live, you can
have a better life, and you
can have a better understanding. I always say; You have the
possibility of going to the top
of the mountain and seeing the whole picture, but we usually,
you know, engage with the
problems, and we forget to go up to the mountain to see. We
forget to go up to the
mountain to reflect or to have a better view, or to have a
better understanding. We just
engage with it and everybody that shows up in our lives.
SAUL MARANEY: And Dr Len says that if we could see what our
cleaning was doing,
then we would never stop doing it, because we are unaware of
what we are surrounded by,
so we should be cleaning 100% of the time. Is it because Mabel,
that if we are not cleaning,
then automatically we are going to be coming from memory and
almost self-sabotage
ourselves?
MABEL KATZ: Well that, and also Saul, we have to know that there
are energies around
that, that maybe we are not aware of, and maybe they are not
influencing us positively. For
example, you know how a lot of people could be depressed and
they cannot explain it?
Maybe, you know, they are attracting certain energies around
them, that maybe they are
not aware of, that could be feeding from that depression.
Sometimes these entities feed
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from our sorrows, feed from our anguish, from drugs, from
alcohol. They are usually very
much around that emotional environment, because they feed from
that. So sometimes we
dont know how to get out of certain feelings or states, and the
cleaning does that. The
cleaning cleans with all of that. So, there are two things that
I always remember for myself
and people like me, that maybe we call ourselves normal you
know, but we cannot see
them, and maybe we are not aware of those things around us.
There are two things that I
always remember: One is that if we only knew what happened every
time we say Thank
You or I love You, or every time we use any of the tools of
Ho`oponopono, we would
always be cleaning, and if we could really see the way that God
works, we wouldnt stop
cleaning. Now the other thing is like you mentioned, because we
arent aware of the things
that are around us, and we are only aware of minimum stuff, like
people who come into our
lives, you know? But if we would be aware of other things that
we dont see that are around
us, we also we would be cleaning on those problems.
SAUL MARANEY: Whew, and I think you said before, that Dr Len is
able to see a lot of
these things that you said that us normal people arent able to
see, and we are very
fortunate that we are not able to see them, because I am sure
its quite frightening what is
out there.
MABEL KATZ: Yes, well sometimes when I mention that to him, he
says: You dont want
to see. Its really scary. Its better that you dont see it.
SAUL MARANEY: So Mabel, what you are really saying, and I have
really enjoyed
speaking to you, and its really put more into context the whole
Ho`oponopono, and how to
use it in my life. Is Ho`oponopono about being at peace within
myself no matter what is
going on around at the moment, and actually a wonderful tool to
keep us in the present?
MABEL KATZ: Yes, exactly! You know, I would like to remind you
of what I told you
before. We dont know, no expectations, the idea is that whatever
is right and perfect is
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going to come, and how important it is for us to know, again,
that we are well taken care of,
and that no matter what it is, it is not that we are not going
to have problems, but we do this
to be at peace no matter what is happening around us. So the
idea is that, no matter if we
have a sickness, or we have money, or not, or whatever situation
it is; How to be at peace.
Because the problems are going to come anyway. Ho`oponopono or
no Hooponopono.
But now we are going to see them as opportunities, and we are
going to be able to let go
faster and easier. And the idea is that as we do this, we are
going to feel at peace, and we
are going to be at peace. Because it is not that we need to do
something, or there is
something that we need to know that will save us. Again, we are
taken care of, we are
protected.
SAUL MARANEY: Great, and I know that you touched on it earlier
but following on from
the point you just made; Is Ho`oponopono a meditation within
itself, because people ask
how does meditation tie into Ho`oponopono, and meditation has
become a big thing around
the world, is this Ho`oponopono something that can replace
meditation?
MABEL KATZ: I dont know that you can replace it for people that
do their meditation that
works for them. What I found is, I didnt find a meditation that
will work for me, that will
really calm my mind. I actually couldnt let go of all of myself.
So for me, Hooponopono is
24 hours mediation. This is how to work by Gods hands all day
long, and not just fifteen
minutes in the morning, and fifteen minutes in the night. This
is how to work with The
Divinity all the time, all the time. And again, its like being
walked by the hand of God, and
its being able to do it Gods way, not my way.
SAUL MARANEY: And I like in Dr Lens online speech Whos in
charge?, its quite like
what you are saying, that when we actually say to The Divine I
am sorry and please
forgive me for whatever is going on with me that I am not aware
of, that is causing this
situation. Its actually a wonderful relief to know that we dont
need to know whats going
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on, and God can take over from there, because by
intellectualising it, there is just
absolutely no answer that way.
MABEL KATZ: Oh yeah, and again, that will also give you a lot of
peace of mind. So we
definitely dont know that we dont know, and we need to wake
up.
SAUL MARANEY: So a big part is, as you say, to really not have
expectations and to not
treat God as a concierge. What is the difference Mabel, between
letting go and letting God
and giving up? Some people think that by letting go and not
thinking about that wealth that
they want all the time, that they are giving up. What is the
difference between the two?
MABEL KATZ: You know there is a great poem that really defines
that. Letting go is
everything just started, letting go is all the possibilities
that I have. So if you allow me I am
going to email you this poem, and maybe you can read it.
SAUL MARANEY: I heard that poem on Joanie interview with you and
it was excellent. It
is a wonderful poem!
MABEL KATZ: I think you can read that poem because that will
tell you everything about
what really letting go is.
SAUL MARANEY: Great!
MABEL KATZ: Letting go is magical, letting go is magical, we
just started, and everything
is possible.
SAUL MARANEY: And Mabel, I dont know if you personally have
received rude emails
about how Ho`oponopono works, or if you try to explain it to
someone else, and they come
across as if they dont believe this stuff; Is that a programme
within us, that they are
reacting to?
MABEL KATZ: Everything is a program. Everything is a program. So
the idea is that we
take 100% responsibility, by saying I am sorry, please forgive
me for whatever it is in me
that people are reacting to, or people dont believe. And you
know what Saul?
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Ho`oponopono is not for everybody! For example, when I am
invited, you know, to have
this moment with you, in conferences, you know I travel quite a
bit, giving conferences in
Spanish in Latin American countries too. I am not trying to
convince everybody. I always tell
people: If I get one of you to do the cleaning, whatever gets
erased from you, will get
erased from me, and that is why I do it. Now for me, I always
tell people on radio, an on
my TV shows, I always tell people: I feel my mission is to wake
up people, and then you
have to find your own way. If it is Ho`oponopono thats great.
Ho`oponopono is not going
to hurt you. Ho`oponopono will help you to see more clearly, and
maybe confirm that you
are on the correct path, or that you found your way, or whatever
works for you. But the idea
is that we need to wake up. No matter what we do. Like I said
before, if you find it in the
Church, then go to the Church, but lets do something. We cannot
continue feeling we are
poor victims, that we dont have any power to change our lives,
or that we depend on
somebody else or certain circumstances to be happy or to change
our lives, because its all
up to us. You take 100% responsibility, and as I said before, if
we created it, then we can
change it.
SAUL MARANEY: I think its very interesting because Dr Len, I
heard him say, that he
actually welcomes those rude emails or people that are rude to
him, because thats the
data that he wants to delete, which is very interesting, and a
wonderful way to look at that.
MABEL KATZ: And something Saul that is very important and that I
learned also from Dr
Len, is that the intellect is cruel. The intellect kills really.
The intellect will do whatever to be
right. So you actually dont want to fight against the intellect.
So you see, you come from
your heart. And definitely, we can use Ho`oponopono for bad
things too, because that is
the power that we have. But the idea is, in the other things,
there is a lot of manipulation of
owning 5% or 1% of what you think you are in control of. Because
like I said before, that
while you are doing all those things, how many bits of
information, how many programmes
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are running? Do you understand? We are not in control at all. So
with Ho`oponopono, we
dont visualise, in Hooponopono, we dont give orders, or write
out the things we want. We
just come from: I dont know anything. You know better. Please
help me.
SAUL MARANEY: So we come from finding out who we are, and
connecting to our
subconscious mind, which is the only part that can erase,
through The Super Conscious
and The Divine?
MABEL KATZ: Exactly! The process is that the intellect has to
make a choice. The
intellect is making the choice to let go. That is an order to
the inner child, and the inner child
makes the connection with the spiritual part of us that is
perfect, because we are perfect.
Okay again, what is not perfect are the programs. And we do have
a part in us that is
perfect; The Super Conscious. And that part of us knows exactly
who it is, and that is not
run by problems or things. And that is the part, that kind of
defines our petition, and resents
it to The Divinity. Then its The Divinity, the Hawaiians says
that it is The Manna, which
erases all these memories and all these problems.
SAUL MARANEY: And that is the only part and the only thing. It
is only The Divine that
can erase the programmes, and not ourselves, which we sometimes
think that its our own
achievement and that we are doing the erasing, but we are
not.
MABEL KATZ: No, we are only giving permission. We are only
giving permission to stop
the tape, and to erase it.
SAUL MARANEY: Great, well Mabel, I really want to thank you once
again for speaking to
me this evening and I really enjoyed it, and your wonderful
answers made me even better
understand Ho`oponopono. And I hope that this will enable a lot
of people to spread the
word, and to learn about it, and to help themselves. And I would
like to leave you with that
thanks again, and we really do appreciate it, and I hope to
speak to you again soon.
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MABEL KATZ: Its been wonderful and like I said, I am always
happy to be able to share
this, and if I have one second more, I would like to finish
with, I am going to read you
another tool of Ho`oponopono; It is called The Peace of I.
SAUL MARANEY: Okay
MABEL KATZ: And this is great to close anything, a meeting, a
day at work or a meal, or
whenever you feel inspired to. You can just repeat the - The
Peace of I in your mind, like
I love You or Thank you.
SAUL MARANEY: Okay
MABEL KATZ: The Peace of I says; Peace be with you , All My
Peace, The Peace that
is I, the Peace that is I am, The Peace for always, Now and
forever and evermore. My
Peace, I give to you, My Peace I leave with you, Not the worlds
Peace, but only My
Peace, The Peace of I. - So God bless you, and thank you so much
Saul for this
interview.