-
Weight/Age:
~ 8 weeks (Weight does not matter at this time in the feeding
stage to us.)
Feed:
Self Feed – 611 (She is eating about 2.5-3 pounds a day) We put
about 1/4 of oat groats in AM and PM.
What she looks like:
Pretty bloomy right now, chunky made, has a lot of muscle
expres-sion and width
What we will monitor:
At this age we mainly like to make sure they get acclimated, on
feed well and stay healthy. However, we will pay close at-tention
to make sure that she doesn’t get too much muscle, that could
potentially hinder structure…at the same time this is still an
important time for mus-cle development so don’t drop protein too
fast.
Plan:
We will keep her on this diet for another 10 days to 2 weeks and
then start staging protein down by mixing 50% 611 and 50% 632.
Gilt #1 at 8 weeks
Gilt #1:
Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Thoughts on starter stage
2
Feed barrows the same?
2
Treating scours
3
Using oat groats
3
Feeding larger framed pigs
3
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary O C T O B E R 2 , 2 0 1 2 R
E C E I V I N G / S T A R T E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Receiving/
Starter phase
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
“...the most
important part of
this stage
is acclimation,
getting on
feed and staying
healthy!!”
Thoughts on receiving/starter stage:
We actually feed barrows and gilts very similarly throughout the
feeding period. For some breeding gilt shows, you may have to feed
for a little more flesh and body closer to the end, but we don’t
feed bar-rows and gilts that much differ-ently at all; especially
with the recent trends in the junior market barrow shows
lately.
Question:
Would you recommend the same for starting barrows on a 606 or
611?
Answer:
Yes, we would recommend this same thing for barrows.
Barrows do tend to deposit fat more easily that gilts and as we
feed the gilts, we may need to add an additional energy source, but
just like everything, all pigs are different from each other, so
you just have to adjust accordingly, regardless barrow or gilt.
It is always good to ask the breeder if they have had all of
their vaccinations or if they have been wormed already. By 8 weeks
old, most of them probably have. When you bring new baby pigs in be
sure that they learn the type of water system that you have, for
example we have bowl waters at out house so if you have nipple
waters, make sure that they learn how to use them. Pay special
attention to notice if any of them start to scour or cough. Mixing
pigs from all different places and
the changes in the weather that we see this time of year make it
very conducive to pigs getting sick.
In our opinion the best feed to receive new pigs on is 606 or
611 (for the first ten days to two weeks) since these feeds will be
the most similar to what they were on at the breeder’s farm. It is
always good to try and keep them on the same type of feed or diet
that they were on at the breeder’s to try and keep at least one
thing consistent dur-ing this stressful time. However, like we said
before the most important part of this stage is acclimation,
getting on feed and staying healthy!
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A
Question & Answer Section:
-
P A G E 3 R E C E I V I N G / S T A R T E R
Question:
What do you typically give to com-bat the scours and coughing…I
know many feeders are having this problem right now? Thanks for
sharing your knowledge! This is a great tool for people.
Answer:
As far as what medications to use we will refer you to your
local vet; however, I will share with you some additional practices
that we always use to help in these situa-tions. For scours, we
almost always
Question:
Do you feed those pigs that tend to be larger framed
differently? Will adding fat earlier keep them from growing
“up”?
Answer:
Yes. Depending on the age/weight of this type of pig you could
have a
anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 weeks of age) to go through and throw
a handful of oat groats in the bottom of the feeders a two or 3
times a week for this very reason. Pigs have a digestive system
very close to humans (both of us being monogas-trics) so what
applies to us as far as fiber being an important part of our diet
also applies to pigs. With this being said, we recommend oat groats
on every pig, but at the same time, we usually just recommend
feeding 1/4 pound per feeding (1/2 pound total per day) of oat
groats. We always have to remember that
anytime we add anything to the feed (oats groats, beet pulp,
fat, etc) we are ultimately changing the final percentage of
protein, fat, & fiber, so always take this into con-sideration
and adjust to your de-sired result.
Question:
What does the oat groats do to the pigs this early?
Answer:
Oat groats simply serve as a fiber source that is very easily
utilized and are great for aiding in digestion at pretty much any
age of pig that is on feed. We actually make it a practice in our
nursery (with pigs
Q&A
Q&A
“We always have
to remember
that anytime we
add anything to
the feed...we are
ultimately
changing the
final percentage
of protein, fat, &
fiber…”
Q&A take a stool sample as soon as we can to a vet or
laboratory to be analyzed. This will help you to know what you are
combating and the most appropriate drug to you use. It is important
to take a sample from a pig that has not yet been treated. We will
also add some additional oat groats into their diet as well as
lightly top dress it with some type of electrolyte to help them
from becoming dehydrated. We also give them a probiotic if we are
treating them with medications because just like in people,
antibiot-ics will kill the good bacteria in the stomach just like
the bad. This will help replenish that source of “good”
bacteria.
As far as a cough goes, we can’t stress enough how important it
is to establish a good, close working relationship with a local
vet. Some medications seem to work better than others from year to
year and they will be able to help you with that. Just like we
mentioned above about using probiotics when treat-ing with
medications, we would do the same here.
couple different scenarios. If the pig is smaller and/or younger
for the show it was purchased for then we would end up “pushing” it
and feed-ing it hard throughout the feeding period. This may be
through more feed and/or higher percent protein. If it is a pig
that is right on target as far as age/weight then we would manage
the weight in the middle part of the feeding period to where we
have plenty of room at the end to push hard then. It is important
on these kinds of pigs to be able to
gain 2.25 lbs/day or more the last 30 days to get them as chunky
and wide as we need them now. 611 is a “best friend” for a pig like
this, probably both in the beginning and at the end.
We have heard that adding fat earli-er will keep these kinds of
pigs from growing up; however, we don’t really have anything to
prove that theory. Like most things with feeding pigs, it works on
some and doesn’t on others and genetics would obviously play a
role.
-
Weight/Age:
~ 9 weeks (Weight does not matter at this time in the feeding
stage to us.)
Feed:
Starting to hand feed – per feed-ing she gets: 3/4 pounds 611
3/4 pounds of 632 (mixing the two to introduce new feed) 1/4 pounds
of oat groats
What she looks like:
She has developed more of mus-cle, rib and body over this last
week. A little tighter moving than last week.
What we will monitor:
She has gotten as much power as we think she needs right now and
her hind legs are starting to look a little more straight than we
would like, so we will drop protein level a little bit and start
monitoring how much she eats per day.
Plan:
We are starting to hand feed her twice a day and want to
start
trying to teach her to eat that way versus self-feed. Based on
how much muscle she has developed over the last week and the way
her structure looks now, we will probably move her to 50% 632 and
50% 685 next week, but not going to make any knee jerk reaction
changes each week.
Gilt #1 at 9 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Switching Feeds
2
To mix or not to mix ...632/685or 672
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary O C T O B E R 9 , 2 0 1 2 R
E C E I V I N G / S T A R T E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Receiving/Starter phase
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
“...not in order for
them to accept the
new feed as much as
for them to move to
a different
nutritional plane and
different diet make
up a little more
slowly. We try not to
change things
drastically.”
Additional thoughts:
will adjust the ratios of 632 and 685 some depending on how the
pigs look, and we tend to like that flexibility that mixing these
two feeds gives us. At some point, we may decide to put one of them
on 2/3 632 and 1/3 685 if she needs just a little more muscle
expression or vice versa (2/3 685; 1/3 632) if we would like for
her to mellow out some in her muscle and flesh. Like I said earlier
though, 672 is
great to feed and provides the convenience that some of us
desire and need. Hope this helps explain our thinking behind that,
thanks!
they will respond to feed changes more quickly than others the
whole way. As you are feeding, you need to learn these things about
your pigs, remember the feed is just part of the equation and
genetics play a role development, con-version, response to feed,
consumption, etc.
During this time of the feeding period, don’t worry about a
whole lot other than keeping healthy, getting them tamed down, and
used to a routine. Remember, these pigs are still
pretty young and lots of pigs this age might still be at a
breeder’s farm in a small con-tained pen. So any additional
walking, exercising, etc may just be too much right now and use up
too much energy (fat) reserves, thus loosing condition and
bloom.
One thing that you will see is that when we switch feeds we
often will mix what they are currently on with the next feed we are
moving to. This is not in order for them to ac-cept the new feed as
much as for them to move to a differ-ent nutritional plane and
differ-ent diet make up a little more slowly. We try not to change
things drastically. This way you know direction the change is
making and continue to allow the pig to develop. Some pigs will
react to changes more quickly and we will see that
Question:
Why are you choosing to feed 50-50 685/632 which would make an
18% versus feeding 672? Is it the medications or the percentage of
fat?
Answer:
672 is perfectly acceptable to feed and is used as much as any
feed that we have. It is the most convenient and easiest to use.
However, you will see that through this feeding period, we
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A
-
Weight/Age:
~ 10 weeks (Weight does not matter at this time in the feeding
stage to us.)
Feed:
On hand feed – per feeding she gets:
3/4 pound 632 1 pound of 685 1 oz. System Mechanic (per day) 1/4
pound of oat groats
What she looks like:
She has definitely maintained muscularity and shape. She is
actually not as tight as she was but still has as much muscle as
she needs and I’m comfortable with right now. She has started to
grow a little and little leaner appearing which are both good for
this stage.
What we will monitor:
She is still doing real well. We are going to keep watching
mus-cle development and make sure she stays sound and flexible.
Plan:
She is cleaning up 1 1/2# feed and the oat groats and hungry by
the next feeding. We are now on 632 and 685 and will be on a
combination of these feeds most of the feeding period unless
something drastically changes. We did increase to 1 3/4 of feed
per feeding because she is eating so well and a little heavier
on 685 because she has enough shape. If she does not eat all of
this in about 20 minutes, we will rake the feeder out. This will
help train her to eat and will pay off in the end. We will feed
Sys-tem Mechanic from this point forward. We will make changes in
the ratio of 632 and 685 ac-cording to how she changes
phenotypically and may start adding Full Figure as an added fat
source in the next couple weeks, but let’s see what this feed
change does. I do not want to change every week.
Gilt #1 at 10 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Training your pig to eat
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary O C T O B E R 1 6 , 2 0 1 2
R E C E I V I N G / S T A R T E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Receiving/Starter phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
“...let’s see what this feed change does. I don’t want
to change every week.”
-
P A G E 2
“...be strong and
patient and it will
help in the long
run...”
Additional thoughts:
Question:
My daughter’s pig doesn’t like to eat in the evenings and over
night, we leave her feed and add the normal ration in the morning
and she eats almost all of it during the day. Is there a way to get
her to eat better?
Answer:
Start by switching when you leave the feed in for her so you get
her eating pattern changed. Feed her a normal ration at night and
if she has feed still left in the morning rake it out. You can save
that and that evening feed her the normal ration plus what was left
and leave all night. If she has eaten all of the feed overnight go
ahead and feed
her the normal ration and give her 20-30 minutes to eat. I would
suggest to do this for a week-10 days, then start pulling the feed
she leaves both morning and night after you have given her the
20-30 minutes to eat. When you are training them to eat like this,
it is important to have the oat groats in the diet as well as top
dress System Mechanic both to help digestion and appetite. Some are
more difficult than others to get trained, but once you get them to
eat twice per day, it will pay off in the end.
you may want to rake what they leave in the morning and then
feed the evening ration plus the remainder of the morning ration
and leave all night for a week and then start raking both morning
and night. At this time, make sure to have the oat groats and we
like to incorporate System Mechanic.
You will see on gilt #1 that we are going to start raking her
feed out after about 20 minutes each feed-ing. This is to get the
pigs trained to eat and not be picky. This is easier on some than
others but be strong and patient and it will help in the long run,
but don’t start to early. I would wait until they are established
on feed well and acclimat-ed probably 3-4 weeks after you receive
your pigs. When you start
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
Does using 632 as a part of your feeding pose a problem with
Safe-guard in it over a length of time?
Answer:
Thanks for the question, no, feed-ing 632 throughout the feeding
period or for an extended amount of time does not pose any
prob-lems. Thanks!
-
Weight/Age:
~ 11 weeks (We will begin to weigh them this week.)
Feed:
On hand feed – per feeding she gets:
1 1/2 pound 685 1/2 pound of oat groats 1 oz. System Mechanic
(per day)
What she looks like:
She is really wide and muscular. She has gotten a lot of hip and
ham. Body dimension as far as rib shape and depth look really good.
Has gotten slightly fatter. Her fat cover is appropriate for this
stage.
What we will monitor:
She is still doing well. We are going to keep watching muscle
development. We feel like she has continually added muscle even
while lowering the protein, so we are going to keep watch-ing this
and make sure feet/legs stay sound.
Plan:
She has continually added muscle even while lowering the
protein, so we know genetically she is
going to be one that has plenty of muscle and with that she
could get tighter as far as movement if she continues to get more.
We are going to go to all 685 and actually go down to 1 1/2# again,
but increase the oat groats to 1/2# per feed-ing. Currently, she
looks ex-tremely good, but want to head off any future issues that
may occur if she gets too much muscle.
Gilt #1 at 11 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Lysine levels in feed
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary O C T O B E R 2 4 , 2 0 1 2
R E C E I V I N G / S T A R T E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Receiving/Starter phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts:
opment. With all of this said, we do not necessarily change
diets when feeding show pigs too often because of lysine alone.
Most feeds that re high-er in protein are also higher in lysine,
and work down accord-ingly. You will see that we are moving Gilt #1
to all 685 which is a 16% protein feed. We haven't weighed these
gilts yet, but I would guess that she is 80# or so. You will hear
people all the time say to not move to a 16% diet until pigs are
100#, but 685 is high enough in lysine to go ahead and start
earlier
A couple questions have been brought up that we can address for
everyone. One is how we handle lysine level in the feed in
determining what ration to use. Lysine is an ami-no acid and a very
important one in swine diets. Pigs do not synthesize Lysine
theirselves so we must pro-vide through feeding and lysine is the
first rate limiting amino acid, so its requirements must be met for
the other amino acids to "work" as well. Amino acids are the
building blocks of protein and we can see that manipulating the
amino acid content and profile definitely yields differences in
performance, both weight gain as well as muscle devel-
and we think that this allows you to still get the advantages of
feeding a 16% while keeping more muscle expression than most 16%
feeds provide and not hinder development. If Gilt #1 doesnt slow
down on mus-cle development we may end up moving to 687 which is
also a 16% protein feed, but is low-er in lysine. I hope that is
helps, and send questions if you have any.......
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
Do you give the 1 oz system me-chanic in one feeding or 1/2 oz
twice a day
Answer:
We like to give the 1 oz in one feeding, we feel like it is
easier to measure when feeding small amounts like this. There is no
problem with feeding it 1/2 oz. twice a day, just a personal
prefer-ence
-
Weight/Age:
~ 13 weeks
-As soon as we can get our scales clean this week we will weigh
them
Feed:
On hand feed – per feeding she gets:
1 3/4 pound 685 1/2 pound of oat groats 2 oz Full Figure 1 oz.
System Mechanic (per day)
What she looks like:
She has stayed tremendously wide and muscular, with the same
amount of body/rib shape. She has gotten softer in her overall
appearance both muscle and fat cover. And she is loosened up as far
as structure.
What we will monitor:
We are very pleased with what the feed changes have done.
Slowing her down and lowering protein has really helped her stay
loose enough structured. We are going to try to keep her on track,
but in-crease feed slightly and add Full Figure to increase the
amount of energy in her diet, because she is definitely eating the
current
ration each feeding quickly and I don’t think she is as ‘fresh”
in her look, but in this middle stage that is not real
important.
Plan:
We want to keep her grow-ing slow enough and just maintain
muscle for a while now. She is eating great and doing really well
with what we are doing right now, so no big changes needed. We will
watch to make sure she stays on track and may continue to in-crease
as time goes on. We need to start monitoring weight as well
Gilt #1 at 13 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Intermediate stage feeding
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary N O V E M B E R 4 , 2 0 1 2
G R O W E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Growing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts:
have talked about in previous weeks, if the pigs are trained to
eat, we tend to see pigs eat but sometimes go off of water at the
show. Water intake is very im-portant…therefore you can get water
in them through wet feed-ing. This doesn’t work on 100% of the
pigs, but these are the reasons we see why it helps and why you
would do it.
growing doesn’t necessarily promote fat deposition. There-fore,
we are adding Full Figure as well to help get her fatter. With the
high fat feeds and added fat supplement, you need to make sure to
not get too out of hand, introduce slowly and don’t try to
in-crease feed content and energy at the same time. Pigs tend to
eat to an energy requirement, so the more high fat products you
have in the diet, the less the pig will have to eat to meet their
energy requirement.
People seem to be starting to
These gilts are starting to grow and get into an intermediate
stage of the feeding period. This is a time feeders often panic,
because that bloomy “cute” show pig they bought has started to
loose some shape and is not as muscular, fat, shapely, “sale
ready”, etc as before. This is normal and good for the end result.
Howev-er, this is the time to start slowly adjusting the ration to
match and maximize the pigs genetic potential.
One thing I talked about on Gilt #2 is the fact that she needed
to get fatter and still needed more muscle right now. We are
keeping protein and amino acid profile high in her diet, which
while these pigs are
work with their projects more at this time in the feeding
peri-od as far as practicing showing, maybe even going to shows,
remember the more they exer-cise the more feed they may need to eat
and/or you may need to add some fat to the diet. Just a quick not
to consid-er….
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
When and why would you start slopping the feed or does it make a
difference?
Answer:
We put all pigs, for the most part, on wet feed the last 30 days
or so. We feel like it helps a couple dif-ferent things. It does
seem like pigs that are wet fed are bigger bodied/softer middled.
This is probably due to nothing more than increased intake at a
certain point so their stomach/middle is expanded. We also like to
wet feed because it seems to us if they are used to eating wet,
then they tend to stay on feed and especially water better at the
show. As we
-
Weight/Age:
~ 14 weeks
Feed:
Same as last week:
On hand feed – per feeding she gets:
1 3/4 pound 685 1/2 pound of oat groats 2 oz Full Figure 1 oz.
System Mechanic (per day)
What she looks like:
Overall appearance has stayed basically the same. The fat that
we added last week has seemed to help “freshen” her up some.
What we will monitor:
We want her to continue to “coast” or maintain muscle
de-velopment and fat cover for now.
Plan:
We will increase the amount of feed in the coming weeks as she
grows and requires more to maintain
Gilt #1 at 14 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Feeding when the tempera-ture changes
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary N O V E M B E R 1 4 , 2 0 1
2 G R O W E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Growing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts:
more than 2-4oz per feeding of Full Figure to have them start
depositing extra cover. The low amount is definitely an advantage
of Full Figure.
fore, you may need to increase feed slightly (1/4 pound per
feeding) to help them main-tain…the great thing about this is that
pigs tend to eat better when it is cooler as well.
We are not making huge adjustments at this point, just altering
the ration to fit their development and pheno-typic changes. A
couple of things that are sometimes overlooked are: how much the
pigs are eating relative to their weight, you need to be realistic
as far as the amount that the pig is able to consume but at the
same time, as pigs grow they require more feed to maintain body
condition and muscle. Also, most areas have just now started
cooling down for the winter. We all try to keep the pigs in as
optimal environment as possible but we also need to remember that
when it is colder, pigs require addi-tional energy to stay warm.
There-
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
I am using 698 instead of oat groats, is that better or it
doesn’t make a difference at this stage?
Answer:
We have a lot of feeders that use 698 in place of oat groats
with great success. 698 will provide the fiber and benefits to
digestion/gut health that oats provide, while still providing some
added fat and nu-tritional aspects to allow the pigs to start
depositing some finish and add some body. We also see that pigs
tend to each better and more consistently when on 698. 698 can be
fed wet or dry.
Question:
We started adding Full Figure at a rate of 1 oz per feeding for
about 5 days and then increased it to 2 oz per feeding. My question
is if they back off on feed consumption, should you cut back on fat
or feed?
Answer:
As long as you know that it was due to the increased fat in the
diet, I would say to back down on fat first. Pigs will eat to meet
their energy requirement and obviously fat pro-vides a lot of
energy. If you start slowly and increase over time as she grows,
you should be fine. With this said, very rarely do you have to
feed
-
Weight/Age:
~15 weeks
Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
2 pound - 685
1/2 of oat groats
2 oz Full Figure 1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
What she looks like:
She has started to get more flesh/condition with the added fat
and feed. Started maturing in her look and maintained muscle mass.
She doesn’t have as much raw shape as she had several weeks
back.
What we will monitor:
We want her to continue to “coast” or maintain muscle
de-velopment and fat cover for now.
Plan:
The plan is about the same as we have had with her. This week
all we did was increase feed content/amount. She has been a very
easy feeding gilt that
responds well to feed changes. She doesn’t have the amount of
raw muscle shape/expression that she had several weeks ago, which
is fi-ne. We will be able to feed that into her lat-er. Right now
she just needs to continue on the same course.
Gilt #2 at 15 weeks
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Fat cover 2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary N O V E M B E R 2 7 , 2 0 1
2 G R O W E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Growing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts: gaining the way you want them to,
converting well, and look good. When we “train” the pigs to eat
twice per day and follow this closely, they really do eat good most
of the time….this is a very good thing.
You can tell the gilts are start-ing to get a little more mature
in their look. At this point, I think you need to make sure that
the pigs are progressing forward in terms of fat cover, body, and
mass, but again don’t think you should have to make drastic
changes, just small changes between the types of feed and respond
to how the pigs are developing and in-creasing feed it needed to
help them maintain.
We have gotten several calls the last week about pigs that look
good and are gaining weight properly, but are still very hungry. I
would say to not concerned with this if they are
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A you could add some supple-mental fat (Full Figure) if
you have not already. Another good source for fat, as well as rib
and body is 698 SLOP. You could use it in place of oats (if you are
feeding them now) or just add 1/4 lb. per feeding. We like using
SLOP sometimes as another source of added fat and fiber since it
also helps with keeping their stomach “happy”
have to work up stamina, so we usually start out practicing with
them for five minutes or so and then eventually work up to no more
than 15-20 minutes.
Question:
I’m mixing 1 1/2lbs 685 with 1/2lbs 632 and I’m starting to see
some great rib growth. My question is would I be better off
switching to a 672/685 mix for the next month to try to get a
little more fat?
Answer:
You could definitely do that or you could add some supplemental
fat (Full Figure) if you have not
already. Another good source for fat, as well as rib and body is
698 SLOP. You could use it in place of oats (if you are feeding
them now) or just add 1/4 lb. per feeding. We like using SLOP
sometimes as another source of added fat and fiber since it also
helps with keep-ing their stomach “happy”
Question:
What is the difference between full figure and the super oink???
We want to start putting cover on our projects and been wondering
which one to try.
Answer:
You could definitely do that or
Question:
When do you start walking and how much?
Answer:
Once pigs are on feed well and most importantly, when they are
gentle enough, then we start prac-ticing with them. We can’t stress
enough how important we think it is for them to be really gentle
and comfortable with you around them before you get them out of the
pen. If not, then you run into problems with them running
ex-cessively, etc. We always tell peo-ple to talk in terms of
practicing showing vs. walking, exercising, etc. Additionally pigs,
like humans,
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Weight/Age:
Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
2 pounds - 685
1/2 pound - 698 “Slop”
2 oz Full Figure 1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
What she looks like:
Gilt #1 has grow up in terms of frame size and started looking
more mature. She still has a lot of muscle mass, good shape and
adequate fat cover. She actually doesnt have as much depth of body
as she had which is a result of her growing more.
What we will monitor:
We need to start feeding her slightly more and work to gain her
body dimension back while keeping muscle shape.
Plan:
We have switched from Oat Groats to 698 “Slop”, which should
allow for even more body and continue for her to get
a bit fatter. 698 still is great from their gut and provides the
amount of oat groats that we need for digestion as well as several
other attributes to 698 that promotes consumption, proper
digestion, as well as add-ing body and flesh. We need to continue
to in-crease a little as far as content of feed.
Gilt #1
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
When pigs go off feed….
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary D E C E M B E R 1 7 , 2 0 1
2 G R O W E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Growing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
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P A G E 2
Additional thoughts: trough and saved back. That evening I gave
them 1/2# oat groats with a table spoon of plain yogurt on the oats
along with some added probiot-ics. They nibbled at this and ate
most of it. I gave them the feed they had left that morning and
they did about the same. I raked this out. Gave them a shot of
b-complex and the next morning only gave them a half of their
normal ration, but took out all added fat (Full Figure) and added
the oats and yogurt. They did eat this bet-ter, but still not all
of it. I went ahead and left in for them to nibble throughout the
day, but did not feed them at all that night. The next morn-
ing, which would be 48 hours from the first time they showed a
lack of appetite, they were back to eating and clean-ing the feed
up like normal in 15 minutes or so. I added the fat back to the
ration that evening and since they have not backed up at all. I
think that sometimes we push too much high energy products to them
and this “burns” them out or there may have been a little stomach
bug that came through or something, but maybe this method can help
you if you have one go off feed, it seems to work for us most of
the time.
It has been a couple weeks since we have updated the diary, but
the gilts were pretty much doing what we needed to do and no feed
chang-es. The one thing that we encountered since the last post was
the gilts going off of feed briefly. Gilt #1 was the first to go
off of feed and the day later Gilt #2 did. However, we were able to
get them back on feed very quickly by following a few steps that we
always try to do or advise people to do when this happens. It was a
morning feeding that they were slow to eat and then only finished
about half of their feed. I raked the feed out of the
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Answer:
We have a new product that we are coming out with this week
called TNT. It is a filler product that you can use to expand their
mid-section (body) and give them more rib. Start two weeks or so
before the show by adding 4-6 oz. per feeding of TNT and every 4
days add an additional 2 oz. of TNT until desired fill is
reached.
Question:
Will the 698 Slop help drop the gut and flank area. Also is that
the same as the shape and guts. Have some barrows that really need
help in that area. They are on the 685, oats, and fat now however
they need help in the middle rib area also. Another Question for
another note is how do some of the barrows seem to be so large and
weighing the same as we do and we look 40 lbs lighter. That has
always been on my mind at ever major we go too. Thanks for what
y’all are doing.
Answer:
Yes 698 will help with expanding
their midsection. It is not the same as 686 Shape and guts. 698
can be fed as a complete feed; however we feed it more like a
supplement than a complete feed in order to lower protein while
increasing fat and fiber in the diet. With most pigs we feed
1/2-3/4 pound per feeding, but on those individuals that are much
harder middle we feel comfortable doubling that amount if needed.
Remember 698 is a combination product that will not only add body
but also in-crease fat cover.
Question:
I need to know what to do if I’m needing mind to expand around
the rib cage?
Question:
I think I over did the fat. 175-185 lbs feeding 2.5# of 686 and
6oz full figure twice per day….not eating all of it now.
Answer:
I would probably say that you are running into consumption
issues because of the amount of addition-al fat in combination with
686 which is high in fat as well. I would suggest lowering the
amount of added fat or move to 687 which is slightly lower in fat
but also lower in lysine and does a good job in softening them
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P A G E 3
the same amount, pigs can look and be made differently (from a
muscle, fat, and struc-ture standpoint) thus they need to be fed
differently based on those three attrib-utes.
For example, pigs that are more extreme in their muscle pattern
and need to be softer from a fat standpoint need to be on a lower
protein, lower lysine, higher fat feed in order to soften their
muscle and lay on more fat. Conversely, pigs that need more muscle
and/or shape to their muscle and have plenty of fat cover need to
be fed a higher protein, higher lysine, lower fat feed.
The feeds we talk about on here are all feeds that can be fed to
a pig at any weight after they are about 8 weeks old, so we feel it
most important to make changed in the feed to match the desired
phenotype (physical traits) versus “blanket” feeding pigs at the
same weight, the same feed, regardless of what they look like….
Question:
Can u please explain what “feeding phenotype” means?
Answer:
Phenotype is the observable physical characteristics, ex-pressed
physical traits, and as it pertains to show pigs it is a pig’s
physical appearance.
With that being said, we think it is best to evaluate the
mus-cle type, fat cover, and struc-ture of your pig and let that
“tell” you what feed it needs to be fed versus letting the weight
of your pig determine what feed you feed it. Just like people, even
when they weigh
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
How can I widen a hog feeding 672 and slop. wat else can i feed
weighing 90lbs
Answer:
You may want to come back and feed some 611. Reference gilt #2,
we have continually had her on some portion of 611 since we were
slightly con-cerned about her width when we started. It takes
genetics, feed, etc but this gilt has continued to get wider and we
attribute that partly to 611.
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Weight/Age:
211 lbs (1/6/13)
Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
2 1/2 pounds - 685
1/2 pound - 698 “Slop”
4 oz Full Figure
3/4 pound TNT 1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
What she looks like:
Gilt #1 is started to look much more like a market hog and looks
like she is not growing up in terms of frame much more. Her muscle
shape is good and fat cover continues to come. She needs to be a
little deeper bodied for the end.
What we will monitor:
We will work her feed up and try to add some additional body
depth and freshness. We need to start her final push.
Plan:
We have grown this gilt slowly, and muscle dimension is good and
structure has stayed
good. She has lost some body and and needs to be fresher. We
will add some additional 685 (1/2#) and also have started to feed
TNT. TNT is a new supplement to the Lindner lineup that is a high
fiber feed product that works to add body and build center
dimension. We will use this this last month to increase rib shape
and depth. TNT is de-signed to build body, not just instant
swelling, but does also increase fill.
Gilt #1
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
How to get muscle shape
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary J A N U A R Y 7 , 2 0 1 3 F
I N I S H E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Finishing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts: we will.
There does seem like we are getting more calls than ever about
pigs that are too heavy. Lindner 699 “Weight Watch-er” is a product
designed to hold pigs without causing them to “crash” in the way
that they look. It is tagged to feed 3#/day to accomplish 1#/day of
gain per day, but to lighter weight pigs you may need to only feed
2 1/2#/day. 699 Weight Watcher is complete, high protein, high fat,
high fiver feed and designed to not be fed with any additional feed
or supplements.
We feel like the “final push” for the show should be started
25-35 days from the day of the show. As a rule of thumb we
like for pigs to weigh 180-200# 30 days out from the show in
order to make sure they are big enough to get there suc-cessfully
and not too big to weigh in and appear fresh. 311 is a feed that
does a very good job to add mass, width and flesh. Do not feed 611
to add muscle shape at the end or to pigs that are too tight in
terms of structure. It does give pigs a very fresh appearance, adds
fat and allows for pigs to be as massive as they can be
genet-ically. You notice on gilt #1 we are simply going to increase
amount of feed because she does have a tendency to be too tight and
gets muscle mass quickly.
We are targeting these gilts for the second week in February so
we have about 35 days left until we want them to be at their max
potential. I apologize for not having weights posted sooner…..They
are as big as we want them to be just off of the concept that they
need to gain at least 2#/day and some-times more towards the end,
but not too far out. They have been gaining about 2#/day on 4# of
feed, plus slop and fat. We are going to increase them for a couple
weeks because they look like they need to be turned loose. We will
monitor weight gain each week and if we need to hold for a few days
to keep down where they can still be at 280-285 at the end,
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Vitamin P will give you more shape while also increasing
muscle mass and content, while Tune N will just increase shape with
the amount of muscle mass staying the same. Pigs also tend to gain
more weight on Vitamin P versus Tune N.
Question:
What will you feed for muscle shape?
Answer:
There are several different things that you can do to get more
mus-cle shape and which one you do depends on how much more shape
your pig needs. You can increase the proportion of 632 in the
ration. Another option is 7-10 days before the show you can feed
1-2 oz. per feeding of Tune N, or lastly you can use Vitamin P
(Paylean) to get more muscle shape. The main difference in the
results you will get between Tune N and Vitamin P is that
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feed for the last 3 weeks. I do think that I have seen the
combi-nation of SLOP and TNT do a great job as far as adding body
when fed together. I also put her on part 611. We have talked about
611 providing extra mass and flesh and especially since we have to
lower feed we want to make sure she is being provided the feed to
promote fat and mass. We are going to feed wet from now on.
Weight/Age:
226 lbs (1/13/13)
Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
1 pound - 611
1 pound - 685
1/2 pound - 698 “Slop”
4 oz Full Figure
1 pound TNT
1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
Feeding Wet…
What she looks like:
Gilt #1 has started to body down more and she is fresher with
more muscle shape than last week. Still plenty powerful and is
staying sound. Could still soften up some in terms of body and
flesh. However, she has increased gain and needs to moderate just a
bit in order to gain over 2#/day the last few weeks
What we will monitor:
We will work to at least main-tain body and slow gain slightly.
She needs to continue to in-crease in terms of mass and center
dimension, but don’t
want het to get tight as far as movement, but we do feel like
she grew slow enough that her structure is in good shape at this
point.
Plan:
The TNT has really helped with body depth and rib shape.
Interesting with this product, you will see initial fill to be
better, but not a dramatic increase at first. However, with this
gilt, so should be most, after about 10 days on TNT, the gilt was
significantly bigger bodied, and even before we fed the next
feeding time (therefore without being fed for 12-15 hours) she is
still full and big bodied. We need to moderate gain slightly as
well as maintain body, so we are going to lower feed and increase
the TNT for this week, and hopefully be able to increase
Gilt #1
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Feeding wet...
2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary J A N U A R Y 1 5 , 2 0 1 3
F I N I S H E R
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Finishing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
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P A G E 2
Additional thoughts:
oatmeal. Not too runny like soup or sticky and dry like
putty.
Question:
How quick will you see re-sults with TNT and second how far out
from show fate should you start feeding it?
Answer:
We have started seeing re-sults with TNT in about 3-5 days,
depending on the pig and how much of it we have them on. We
recommend
starting it a couple of weeks before the show in order to
“build” body; however, you can start it earlier than that if you
desire to.
often then go off of feed. If we are wet feeding them, then we
can get fluids in them at the same time as feeding if they do
happen to go off of water at the show
No big changes this week, just tweaking a few things. One change
is to feed both gilts wet from this point forward. I personally
like feeding them wet the last 30-40 days for 2 or 3 reasons. Many
people think it makes them bigger bodied/softer and it does just
because of the volume of in-take but doesn’t change them
dramatically in terms of pheno-type (physical appearance). It does
help to mix the supple-ments in more uniformly. And for me the main
reason is if we have trained them to eat like we talked about in
the begin-ning then it seems like they will almost always eat and
when we get to the show I have them go off of water way more
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A 611 is a complete feed. Feed 611 when your pig needs to
be fatter and have more mass. The results seen when feeding 611 are
not typical of a normal 23% protein feed. It will not get your pigs
hard-er or give them more hard muscle shape. Because of the percent
fat and the protein sources used it will soften them and make them
more massive.
Vitamin P is a Paylean supplement; however, it is the only one
availa-ble with a comprehensive probi-otic and yeast profile, the
Feet First program for foot integrity, and a complex pH buffering
sys-tem.
When we talk about wet feeding we are meaning to add water. We
get that question a lot of how much water to add and we like to say
to make it the consistency of
Question:
Is the use on TNT, Full Figure, or 611 a substitute for paylean
(Vitamin P)? I guess I can’t tell the difference in what the
results should between these products when they are used. Can they
all be used concurrently? Please sum-marize. Also, when you use the
term “wet feed” I assume you are merely adding some levels of
wa-ter to the feed is that correct?
Answer:
TNT is a filler product that you use to add more depth of body
and rib.
Full Figure is a fat supplement.
Question:
Will the high protein content of 611 make it harder to lay cover
than say a 16% protein feed?
Answer:
No, that is somewhat of a miscon-ception for 611. Feed 611 when
you pig needs to be fatter and have more mass. The results seen
when feeding 611 are not typical of a normal 23% protein feed. It
will not get your pigs harder or give them more hard muscle shape.
Because of the protein sources, the total energy content, and the
fat level, they will "bulk up" a good bit on this feed and the
majority of that "bulk" with be from getting fatter.
Q&A Question:
How long do we feed Lindner system mechanic?
Answer:
We recommend feeding it through-out the entire feeding period to
get the best results. We usually start them on it as soon as they
are on feed well and then use throughout the rest of the season. It
is especially important from a stomach and gut health standpoint to
feed throughout the entire feeding period.
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Weight/Age:
247 lbs (1/24/13)
Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
1 1/4 pound - 611
1 1/4 pound - 685
1/2 pound - 698 “Slop”
6 oz Full Figure
1 pound TNT
1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
Feeding Wet…
What she looks like:
Gilt #1 has really bodied down well and even on a little lower
amount of feed has maintained body and freshness. Muscle shape and
width has stayed very good. She has lost a little condi-tion the
past couple of weeks.
What we will monitor:
We will increase the amount of feed she is getting and try to
increase fat cover, body and flesh. Want to maintain muscle shape
and width and be on an upward swing the last two weeks. Need to
monitor weight gain but I think the way she has converted and
gained, this ration
will be good for her to finish within weight parameters.
Plan:
We are simply going to increase the feed content the past couple
of weeks She has maintained body and actually increased depth and
body softness with the addition of TNT and especially with the
combination of TNT and 698 slop. The 611 and 685 is as good a feed
combination there is to add mass and fat. She has plenty of muscle
shape and power so we do not have to include any Paylean (Vitamin
P) on her.
Gilt #1
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
I N S I D E T H I S I S S U E :
Vitamin P 2
Inside Story 6
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary J A N U A R Y 2 5 , 2 0 1 3
F I N I S H I N G
S P E C I A L P O I N T S O F I N T E R E S T :
Finishing phase
Upcoming plans for gilts
Q&A
-
P A G E 2
Additional thoughts:
The Vitamin P product delivers Paylean which aids in increased
mus-cle mass/shape and expression as well as feed conversion.
However, it also provides added probiotics (7 different
probiotics), pH buffers and the Feet First Program to aid in
digestion, gut and muscle pH and foot/hoof integrity.
L I N D N E R F E E D I N G D I A R Y
Q&A Question:
How do we know the amount of Vitamin P to feed a day?
Answer:
It depends on the amount of mus-cle mass increase you think you
need. You can always start with 1 oz per feeding for a few days and
then adjust depending on the re-sults that you see.
1 oz = 4.5 grams
2 oz = 9 grams
Scoop included in the bucket is a 2 oz. scoop
Question:
Can you use Vitamin and Tune N at the same time or a combination
thereof?
Answer:
Yes you can use them at the same time.
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Feed:
On hand feed—per feeding she gets:
1 1/4 pound - 685
1 1/4 pound - 611
1/2 pound - 698 “Slop”
6 oz Full Figure
1 pound- TNT
1 oz System Mechanic (total per day)
Feeding Wet…
What she looks like:
Gilt #1 remained on the same ration since the last post (
January 25th). The main challenge with this gilt was managing her
feet and legs in relation to the muscle that she was genetically
predisposed with.
She is a perfect example of one that if she would have been
allowed to gain as much as she could have and if the protein level
wouldn’t have been managed correctly (lowered) at the right times,
her struc-ture soundness and squareness could have been
compromised. That being said, we are very happy with the
results!
Gilt #1: Feeding Strategy for a heavy muscled pig
L I N D N E R F E E D &
M I L L I N G Lindner Feeding Diary F E B R U A R Y 1 1 , 2 0 1
3 F I N I S H I N G
First post: October 1, 2012
Final post: February 11, 2013
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October 1, 2012
October 24, 2012
November 27, 2012
January 15, 2013 February 11, 2013
January 7, 2013
November 14, 2012
October 16, 2012 October 9, 2012
November 4, 2012
December 17, 2012
January 25, 2013