Lawrence Banks Trotter was born October 15, 1912, in ...musicrising.tulane.edu/uploads/transcripts/l. trotter 01-13-1966.pdf · Lawrence Banks Trotter was born October 15, ... trumpet,

LAWRENCE TROTTERt [of 4] 1January 13, 1966Also present: Richard B. Alien, Ernestine [Mrs- Lawrence] Trotter,Betty B. Rankin

Lawrence Banks Trotter was born October 15, 1912, in Lafayette,

Louisiana, of a non-musical family. He Tnas no nickname. [This is<

unusual among New Orleans musicians-RBA] . His father was a dea-

con, 1-iis mother a steward in the Good Hope Baptist Church in La-

fayette. LT moved to New Orleans in 1929, and took up music int.

1930. The first place he rehearsed with a band was at 2804 Belmont

Place, with Raymond Smitt-i, trumpet, and Tom Johnson, alto sax; LT

later played with Johnson in Papa Celestin's band. The first

organized band LT played with was Rolsert dark *s Brown Buddies;

William Houston (owner of a music store in New Orleans), then

attending Xavier [ University, New Orleans], was the pianist. Tom

Johnson could play clarinet a little bit before he left New Orleans

for California, but he learned how to play it after he left. He is

still active in music there. He played wi'th Don Albert's big band;

Alvin Alcorn [trumpet] and Louis Cottrell [tenor sax and/or clar-

inet?] were also in Albert*s band then.

In Lafayette, L T heard the Black Eagle Band, led by Evan Thomas,t.

a good trumpet player; he was a high note man [sticking closely to the

melody?]; the band played mostly hon'ky tank music; LT didn't see any.I

music when they played/ so he assumes they didn't read. "Papa" John

Joseph was playing sax with the band at the time, and LT thinks

Lawrence Duhe was also playing sax with them. RBA says Duhe played

with the Banner Band (of New Iberia, Louisiana, says LT) 7 LT says the

Banner Band, more of a society band than tTie Black Eagle, also*

appeared in Lafayette. Some members of the Black Eagle other than

John Jos<^>h and Evan Thomas [and probably Lawrence Duhe (see above)]:

LAWRENCE TROTTER2I [of 4]

January 13, 1966

Walter Thomas, drums/ Joe Robichaux (of New Orleans), piano.

Answering RBA, LT says he remembers trombonist Gus Fontenet [of New

Ilseriar-RBA] a little bit; LT thinks Fontenet must have become & a

^little famous around tliere maybe after I left ther^T^Evan Thomas,^.

know^as E. T. Thomas, was the most well-known musician in the area;A

they" [i.e., the band or the Thomas family?] were from Crowley,but their headquarters were in Lafayette. (LT met Bunk Johnson in

the 1930's in New Iberia when LT was with Celestin*^ band.) LT says

Thomas would get in a window of the hall and blow his born [to^

attract people]. He also played in an alley behind the Alamo Cafe,

which was owned by his brother, to attract people.

LT knew of no brass bands in Lafayette; his first knowledge ofs

brass bands came in New Orleans; he followed parades every Sunday.

LT recalls working for $1 per night; he says the price incr-

ased to $1.25, and that a man was well paid if he made $1.50; othere

musicians, including Hunter Gardette, [John] Handy, and Wilbert Till-

man (then playing trumpet, and living at 7t1'i and Howard [now La-

Salle]), worked for similar wages. The Trotters then had wocd

stoves. . *

LT played with Huntley [i-e., Hunter] Gardette, and also witln

[^ohn] Handy, at the Black Gold, a place at 7th and Howard; the Black

Gold Xlater became the Gtand Terrace, and was owned a (LT thinks)

policeman named NicX Patterson; the Foster Hotel is located on the

spot now [downtown river corner-RBA] . Answering RBA, LT says Alien

Gardette and Huntley Gardette must have been the same,person, as there

was only one Gardette who was a musician. LT says Gardette is Wil-

bert Tillman's brother-in-law; he married Tillman's sister. LT says\t

Tillman's wife died last night at 6:30.

LAWRENCE TROTTER 3

I (of 4]January 13, 1966

Robert dark's Brown Buddies were a reading band; some of the

personnel: Clyde Kerr, 1st Trumpet? Shelly "Bullet" Lamelle, [2nd]

trumpet; Clark, 3rd trumpet; Kerr's brother, Ewing Kerr, trorabone;

Helen Austin, singer [also with Kid Ory?]; Tom Johpson, 3rd sax; Howar

Davis, 1st alto [sax]7 a tenor sacophonist; LT, drums; a guitarist;

William Houston, piano; "[Kid] Twat" [Butler], bass (who now plays ^t- .

with Kid Thomas' band; LT thinks he wasn't reading much in Clark's

band, but he played).

LT took his first drum lessons from "Happy" Goldston; LT

learned to read from tenor saxophonist Davey Jones? LT was then

playing at the Caliente, at Dauphine and Bienville, witli Willie

"Kaiser" Joseph (brother of Papa John 'Joseph-RBA) ; Joe Bentley was

playing trumpet in that band. LT guesses he began to study reading

music in the late [19] 30*s- "Happy" taught LT how to hold his

sticks, and how to make a roll on .drums. RBA compliments LT on his

roll. LT li'ked to listen to Louis Barbarin, then playing drums with

Celestin- (RBA says the Celestin band is now led by Albert French,

.,<,;*- and play 4 3r nights a week at Dixieland Hall; Jeanette Kimball still^J

plays [piano] with the band; RBA says the personnel changes very

little, although Jack Willis is now the trumpeter, instead of

Alvin [Alcorn]).

LT began taking lessons on only his snare drum? he also had a

bass drum, a small torn torn, and a top-mounted cymbal, but no sock

cymbal; some years later he got a sock cymbal* He says Louis Bar-

barin and Alfred Williams had sock cymbals when LT began drumming,

but Williams had a low [to the floor] one. LT had one crash cym-

bal; he later bougtit temple blocks, and a larger, stand-mounted

torn torn? he bought his first cowbell in 1964; he had a wood block

in the early days, as he does now.

LAWRENCE TROTTER 4

I fof 4]January 13, 1966

LT played in the WPA band during later years, not in the band when it

began? some of fhe other personnel, from a total of about 12 men: John

Porter, John "Pickey" Brunious, [E] Manuel Paul, Edward Johnson (alto

sax), and Louis Dumaine, instructor [i. e- director?]* LT was in that

band before World War II [cf. J'."P." B- & Manuel Paul interviews-RBA].

The band played at U.S. 0. clubs, and at Army and Navy bases? LT says

the war was already in progress when the band played at those places.

Before LT joined the WPA band, he "was playing in the field" (i.e.,

doing any type of work in the WPA); LT says Celestin also worked in .-^X

the field for the WPA-

Robert Clark's band played casual jobs at dance halls for colored

and at other places* LT says that then fhere were no rock and roll

groups to contend with in those days, that there was just one groupE;(i.e. type of band) [i.e., N£<g^o swing orchestras?]; the bands in--,.

that group were: Celestin's, dark's Brown Buddies, Sidney Des-

vigne, Herbert Leary/ and [A.J.] Piron. Celestin was usually on the

road then.

End of Reel I

LAWRENCE TROTTER S' /

II [of 4]*Tanuary 13, 1966

Robert Clark's big band worked one or two nights per week;

LT had a day job then, also; when he was with ["Papa"] Celestin's

band, he didn't have a day job; he was also single at the time.

Clyde Kerr, Ewing Kerr, and William Houston, some of the other mem-

bers of Clark's band [see Reel I], were attending school; LT was

working in a grocery store.

LT played drums at a jitney dance. La Vida, for about 1 1/2

years, with the band led by [John] Handy, then playing alto sax and

clarinet; others in the band: "Jim Crow" Robinson^ trombone; Benny

Turner, piano; Sidney Pflueger, guitar or toanjo. RBA says Handy is

again playing clarinet/ and well. [cf. notes on recording with Hugh

Watts,] LT says he "got that hard leg, from playing with Handy; he

malce a drummer strong;" the hours were long, and there were a lot

of fast, although short, numbers. The band played slow numbers/

fast numbers, waltzes, etc.; each number was only two choruses in

length. LT thinks the band began playing at 8:30 or 9 p.m. (dances

cost five cents), ending sometime during the morning, as it was day-

light when he got home. LT was paid $15 per week., which was good

pay then, during the 1930*s or 1940's/ but before (he thinks) his

job with the WPA.

LT first played with Robert dark; the last band he played with

was led by Papa Celestin? in between, LT played with Handy, the WPA

band, Huntlgy Gardette, and at the Rhythm Club (at Jackson & Derbigny)

with Henry Russ, who was then playing trumpet. Isidore [sp?] Criunj)

was playing alto sax [with Russ]. RBA mentions saxophonist Frank

Crump; both he and LT think Frank Crump died. LT says Isidore Crump

operates a jeweler's on Dryades Street. Russ had a 10-piece band.

Wtien playing with Gardette, wl-iose band was not a regularly

organised one, LT would take other jobs; he says all the musicians in

LAWREBNCE TROTTER5IX [of 4]

January 13, 1966

tliat type band followed similar practices. He says the single musi-

cians had fun, didn't save their money. He agrees with RBA that the

people had fun, although times were hard; he says people seemed to

be in good humor; he says there were 4 or 5 piece bands in pract-/

ically every small place in town.

Other than [Louis] Barbarin [see Reel I], LT liked the beat on

drums of Roy Evans, who played with Sam Morgan; Evans also worked with

the 6-piece band led by Davey Jones; [Theodore] "Wiggles" Purnell

played alto sax with the band. RBA says Purnell made a recording wittn

Jones at the Astoria- RBA mentions Lee Collins; LT says Collins

was playing trumpet; Joe Robichaux was playing piano; Evans, Drums;

Manual Sayles, Sanjo; [Jones, tenor saxophone]. Evans used his foot

differently from other drummers; "he beat a 4/4 rhythm, and he sorfe

of skip in there, skip in between." LT says he wasn't able to copy

the beat. His torn torn technique was also different. In brass bands,

a drummer LT li1<ed was "Jim", also called "Jiiabo". RBA asks

about Jim Mukes, a drummer who was "known as 'The Hog", and was a

good friend of bass drummer "Black Benny". RBA thinks "Jimbo" and

Jim Mukes must be the same person. LT liked " [Black] Happy"

[Goldston] on snare drum.

Handy had a big band, tlie Louisiana Shakers, before he took tl-ie

small band, with LT, into La Vida; Roy Evans played drums with tbe

SI-iaTcers, and Henry Kimball played bass. Clifford Brown [of New

Orleans] was one of the trumpet players in the Shakers; Raymond

Brown was the trombonist; Edmond Bottley[c£. Al Rose & Ed Souchon/

A Eamily Album...], now dead, played 3rd alto saxophone.

LT doesn't know where "Papa", a wavy-haired drummer, is now.

*

LAWRENCE TROTTER 7

XI [of 4]January 13, L966

Partial personnel of Henry Russ band at the Rhythm Club: [see

also p. 7-PRC] [Russ, trumpet] ; Isidore Crump, alfeo sax; Earl Barnes,

tenor sa ; Walter Daniels, piano. The band played the Sunday Cock -

tail "hour" at the Rhythm Club every Sunday, from 4 until 9 [pm]7^

they also played 1 or 2 nights per week»

Lawrence Trotter played his very first parade July 26, 1964, {with

the Young Tuxedo Brass Band] for a cornerstone laying in Gretna. He

says that in the earlier days it seemed that the older musicians» .

wouldn't hire younger musicians.

New Orleans bands which used arrangements had stock and special

arrangements. Henri "Kildee" Holloway arranged for Celestin; Clyde

Kerr and William Houston arranged for Robert Clark. The arrangers

tried to come close to the arrangements of the hits of otber bands;^

Kerr atranged exactly from recordings. RBf< comments on the simi-t).'e

larity of the sound of Don Albert band to Duke Ellington's,^-

assuming Albert's arrangers copied Ellington's recordings. LT had

no favorites among New Orleans arrange^'5.

LT hasn't heard Houston's band in a long time. fHerbert]

Leary's band still operates, tout they play a lot of rock and roll,

which LT doesn't like. LT was asked to join Herbert Leary's band.

Answering RBA, LT says he likes rhumbas, that he formerly played a lot

of them. [Cf. notes on Chris White.} besides the rhumba, people in

the 1930's danced the breakaway, and the swing out, which was simi-

lar to j»tterbugging. . LT played Dixieland in the 1930's? he doubts

that the style he and his cotiorts play ww is different from their

earlier style. His own playing is a bit different because earlier

he used wire brushes more, at the request of leaders* LT played a

job "the other night" with [Andy] Anderson's group; he used wire

brushes then. Sometime members of Anderson's group besides LT:

J

LAWRENCE TROTTER 8

XT [of 4]January 13, 1966

Joe Harris, alto sax; Andersen's cousin, Lester [ ?], a, rock and

roll organist; Ernest [Routoleau] or Narvin Kiinball, banjo. Ander-

son also has used Gerald Joseph on trombone, and [James] "Sing"fr

Miller, piano; Miller is now playing with Narvin Kimball.

End of Reel II

/

LAWRENCE TROTTER 91X1 (of 4]January 13, 1866 Also present: Riclaard B. Alien, Ernestine [Mrs.Lawrence] Trotter, Betty B- Rankin.

Ernestine and Lawtence Trotter have been married about 15 years?

they met in a Baptist church. RBA says LT's name was mentioned by

[English trumpeter] Clive Wilson in the English macfazine Jazz Times.

[Oscar] "Papa" Celestin's band, with LT, travelled through Texas,

Arkansas, Mississippi and Alabama; Celestin was well-known in

several states. The salaries tl-ie musicians received Wtt. adequate.

Personnel of the ceiestin band tlien: [LT, drums] ; [Henri] "Kildee'

[Holloway], 2nd trumpet; Hunter Gardette, 1st trumpet; Celestin, 3rd

trumpet; Bill Matthews, trombone; Tommy Johnson, 1st alto sax?

Willie "Squeek" James (nephew of Lewis James, and from New Orleans),

3rd alto sax? Clarence Hall, tenor sax? Adam Cato, piano; < ^ -. Law-T*

rence, singer? Narvin Kimball, string bass; John Porter, sousaplnone.

Besides singing, Joe Lawrence played sa^ and wastzbo. 7 hc-played the/

.^

saw on sweet numbers, sa^cli as waltzes, and tie washboard on certainf

otlner .numbers.

Repetoire of the Celestin band consisted of popular tunes, waltzes,

rhuiabas, etc. Celestin himself was featured in "My Josephine",

'Muskrat Ramble", "[Oh] Didn't He Ramble", and certain other tunes?

he sang on one number, the name of which LT doesn't remember. He did

not employ showmanship, as lie did in later years. (Other bands Iiad

their own specialties.)

Jimmy Cato/ a first cousin of Adam Cato, was a big man; [and

known as "Big Cato"?-RBA] now dead, he played [piano?] mostly for

house parties. LT thinks Adam Cato'.s father played drums, although

LT didn't know him.

LT quit playing music in 1946; Tais wife says it was because of

his religio'^ belc -{-> (he joined St. Mark's Baptist Church), and*

that he considered playing )^2Z a sin. LT Says the real reason was

that he was on the bo^rd of trustees of the clnurch, that all 'his time

LAWRENCE TROTTER 10Ill [of 4] »

*

January 13, 1966

taken up by church duties, and that he had no time to play jazz.

He doesn't consider playing jazz a sin. His wife insists that he

thought otherwise. LT quit playing music entirely in 1946; he

occasionally saw other musicians; he worked at bis^day jobs and in

the church office, taking care of financial matters; fche church

job paid no money; he was in that job from 1946 until around 1963.

LT is now a porter at D. H. Holmes [department store]; RBA/- ^

says Hugh Evans, presidehtof Holmes, once studied drums with [Abby]

"Chinee" [Foster], and that he tl-iinks Harry Souchon, a good friend

of Evans, told him about it.

After Meeting Willie J. Humphrey on tlie bus one time, LT

thought about Humphrey's suggestion that lie begin playing drums

again for about a montla before decicUri^ to do so; he got a set of

drums, joined the union, and bej an playing. He hadn't belonged to

the union before, as prior to 1946, union membership was not a

requirement to play} union and non-union musicians played together,J

even in Celestin's band.

LT aid RBA look at LT's [music job] book; the first job listed

is the first LT played after returning to music? it was with tub

player Anderson "Goulie" Minor's Brass Band, for a cornerstone

laying in Gretna, June 25, 1964. Furttier listings of jobs and

some of the musicians on them:

September 4, Gulfport, Mississippi; Octave Crosby, p,

October 17, Harmony Inn; [Andy] Anderson, tp; Harold Dejan,

as, and pianist [James] "Sing" Miller.

Ocfober 26, Tulane University; [Andy] Anderson/ Joe Harris, as?

December 5, 1220 Second St [the then residence of Dr. William

S. Wiedorn] (RBA got the band the job, and attended); Ernest Roub-

leau, bj; Octave Crosby-

LAWRENCE TROTTER 11Ill [of 4]January 13, 1966

December 12, American Legion Hall, Gretna; Andrew Morgan, ts, cl.

December 15, Charity Hospital (a [union] project job); Leroy

Kobinet, ts.^ leader 7 Joe Bentley, trumpet; "Father Al" [Lewis],

guitar? Albert Delone, as; "Sing" Miller, piapo.

New Year's Eve [December 31], Pensacola, Florida; [Andy] Ander-

son, Joe Harris, "S'howboy" [Thomas], tb; Ernest Roubleau, [bj and/or

guitar].

February 16, 1965, Charity Hospital; (Andrew Morgan or Oct^v^.

Crosby had the project job), Joe Bentley, Roubleau on banjo,

[Albe -rt] Warner on troinbone. RBA says he was there with Chris White,

bassist with Dizzy, and that Wliite liked Roubleau and earner.

(Narvin Kimball's band on Eite± other side of hospital.) [C£ notes in

ANOJ folder under<phris White 7)].fe

March 2, parade for the Corner.Club; Anderson Minor's Brass Band.

March 16, Charity Hospital? (not certain which band).

April 23, 8031 S. Robertson [There is no such number on South

Robertson; the last block of South Robertson is 6300-PRC]; [ -7.

trumpet/ was leader of the band? ttie party was at a house near

school (St. Joan of Arc?).

June 6, Lutcher, Louisiana, a picnic; [Andy] Anderson.

LT played few picnics in the 1930's; he played mostly in night-

clubs; he says he played at almost every nightclub in the city. He

also played advertising jobs on trucks, in bands of five or six

pieces. LT tells of playing with Handy in a bucking contest against.

a band led by [Kid] Rena, with Reaa's brother, Joe Renefsic] on drums,

Edgar Saucier, saxophpne, and Henry Harding [Soards', 1933], tenor

saxophone. Rena "played nice trumpet." Alvin Aicorn/ then with

Piron's band, also played frequently on trucks. Handy sometimes

uses Alcorn on trumpet in his band.on the trucks? he frequently used

LAWRENCE TROTTER 12

Ill fof 4]January 13, 1966

Clifford Brown (son of Raymond Brown) on trumpet [not modern trumpet

player-RBA]- (Asked if any trumpet players tried to play like Louis'

Armstrong/ LT says he thinks Lee Collins did. RBA tells of hearing

Collins playing "When You're Smilin'" at the Paddock and then^

following it with whatever tune was on the ofher side of the Arm-

strong recording of "When You're Smilin'".) LT says Clifford Brown

had his own style of playing. RBA comments on Rena's style on

recordings as opposed to his style when heard in person.

Continuing the list of LT's music jobs:

June 20, 1965, St. John Grand Lodge (Masons) Parade (LT is a

member of the organisatmon), which ended at the I [nternational]

L[ongslioremen ' s] A[ssociation] Hall* There were about six bands

[including the Apollo?].

[End of Reel III]

LAWRENCE TROTTER 13

IV to£ 4]January 13, 1966Also presents Richard B. Alien/ Ernestine [Mrs. Lawrenc, e] Trotter,Betty B. Rankin.

LT is a member of the United Most Worshipful St, John Grand Lodge

[see Lt, Reel III]7 he belongs to only one "Society", but not to any

pleasure clubs..t

Continuing the list of LT*s music jobs:

June 27, [1965], Sund. y^ Gretna, parade of the Prince Hall

[Masonic] lodge, [Andrew] Morgan's lodge, (RBA says Morgan was going

to start up the Young Tuxedo again? LT confirms tl-iis) with Morgan.

July 11, Slidell, Louisiana. (LT doesn't remember what band.)

August 14, dance in a hall at Grand Isle [Louisiana] ;

[Andy] Anderson.

August 18, U.S. Public Hospital; Israel Gorman, [Andy] Ander-

son ( leader on the job, a project), Joe Harris, Ernest Roubleau,

Octave Crosby- No one danced; they just say; LT found it difficult

to play there because of the passive response of the audience. LT

prefers playing for , . dances; "I lifce to play dances; I like to see

people dancing, because when they're dancing, it gives me more

energy to play; it seems as though they're enjoying the music,

you know,"

August 22, a dance in Lutcher, Louisiana; [Andy] Anderson»

LT has continued playing since the last job listed? he has

merely quit keeping records. He has played in Pensacola, [Florida]

and at International House since then; tooth jobs were with [Andy]

Anderson- He has also.played with Octave [Crosby], and had a job

at Charity Hospital with [Wilbert] Tillman; other members of that

band: [Ernie] Cag[no. latti], Morgan, Ernest Roubleau, Octave on'-,

piano, Tillman on Ibass [sous] .

LT has played with only one violinist, Louis James.

To LT, the playing of Clive Wilson and Lars [Edegran] sounds

like that of New Orleans musicians.

LAWRENCE TROTTER14

XV [of 4]January 13, 1966

"Papa" John [Joseph] and LT had a band which never

got a job, although they rehearsed for around two months; some-

times they rehearsed without "Papa" John. [see notes in AN J.)

[The Louis James] band has had two jobs? LT plLayed one of

them- RBA says James told Clive Wilson and Lars he wasn't working,

and that no one would hire him, so they decided to form a band ./

RBA recommended LT to Clive Wilson. LT was working wifh Anderson

one night when Louis James had the second job, the one LT missed?

Andrew Jefferson played drums with James that job at Charity

Hospital.

Answering RBA, LT says he thinks a leader should hold consul

[tations?] with his men, and set up rules to govern the conduct of

ttie band. Big bands had discussions of problems, etc., before the

rehearsals. The bandsmen respected fhe wishes of tl^e leader.

Bands still had managers during the 1930's7 Robert dark was

the manager of Robert dark and his Brown Buddies; he got the

jobs for the band? Clyde Kerr was 1'he leader [I. E. a musical

director]. Clark was a fine fellow; he got along well with the

icians in his band? he had a nice personality.mus

Discussion of tips: no tips to big bands; LT got tips while

working with small bands in nightclubs; LT never had any arguments

about tips. Tips were split equally among the men, including the

leader/ who got the same amount of regular pay as the other men.

LT feels he has been luc'ky in playing with bands without

absentee problems; he himself never missed a music job, nor was he

ever late for one; other bands might have had absentee problems,

but not the ones in which LT worked. LT has always sent sub -

stitutes if he has been unable to play some jobs- LT mentions

drummer Sa., ' [Mossey] , who is not playing with any band now.