Koyode Conference

JUDICIAL TRANSCRIBERS OF TEXAS, LLC

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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS

HOUSTON DIVISION

UNITED STATES OF AMERCIA CASE NO. 4:03-CR-436-1

HOUSTON, TEXAS

VERSUS TUESDAY,

AUGUST 6, 2013

KOYODE LAWRENCE, ET AL 2:04 P.M. TO 3:08 P.M.

PRETRIAL CONFERENCE

BEFORE THE HONORABLE NANCY F. ATLAS

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE

APPEARANCES:

FOR PLAINTIFF/DEFENDANT: SEE NEXT PAGE

COURT RECORDER: RISHONA SMITH

COURT CLERK: SHEILA ASHABRANNER

TRANSCRIPTION SERVICE BY:


935 ELDRIDGE ROAD, #144

SUGAR LAND, TEXAS 77478

Tel: 281-277-5325 Fax: 281-277-0946

www.judicialtranscribers.com

Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;

transcript produced by transcription service.

Case 4:03-cr-00436 Document 488 Filed in TXSD on 08/20/13 Page 1 of 62


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APPEARANCES:

FOR THE GOVERNMENT: STUART ALAN BURNS

U.S. ATTORNEYS OFFICE

1000 LOUISIANA, STE. 2300

HOUSTON, TEXAS 77002

713-567-9580

FOR THE DEFENDANT,

KOYODE LAWRENCE: GREGORY CHARLES GLADDEN

BIANCA MARTINEZ

ATTORNEY AT LAW

3017 HOUSTON AVE.


713-880-0333

ALSO ATTENDING:

US MARSHALS OFFICE

515 RUSK, 10TH FLOOR


713-718-4800



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HOUSTON, TEXAS; TUESDAY, AUGUST 6, 2013; 2:04 P.M.

THE COURT: Okay, do I have the parties on

United States versus Koyode Lawrence?

THE CLERK: Yeah.

MR. BURNS: Yes, Judge. Good afternoon.

Stuart Burns for the United States.

THE COURT: Good afternoon.

MR. GLADDEN: Good morning, Judge.

Im Greg Gladden.

THE COURT: Mr. Gladden.

And who do you have with you?

MR. GLADDEN: Ms. Bianca Martinez. Shes a --

well, I dont know what you call her. She just took the Bar

last week.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: Shes waiting for her results.

THE COURT: All right. And I --

MR. GLADDEN: Were working on that.

THE COURT: -- see that Mr. Lawrence is here.

There -- this is an Initial Pretrial Conference in

this case. The case was filed and other Defendants were

prosecuted in 2003 and 04. The case number is 03-436 and

it was opened in November of 2003.

Mr. Lawrence has been -- I dont know if you call

it a fugitive, but he hasnt been -- he has not been taken



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into custody here in the United States until very recently.

I do know that there is a Motion to Dismiss based on speedy

trial grounds. It was filed only recently so I need a

response from you, Mr. Burns.

I did read it and I need to say that, Mr. Gladden,

youve set out the test, but you only addressed two out of

the four factors. You did -- you said it was an egregiously

long time and that there was prejudice that you felt was

inherent in the delay, but theres no comment about the

cause of the delay or really the reasons for or who was at

fault, whos to blame for the delay.

MR. GLADDEN: May I be heard, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GLADDEN: I was appointed on July 19th. I

received an email from the Magistrates Deputy Clerk on the

18th after 5:00 when I got back to the office asking if I

was available and I responded I was available. And I went

out to see Mr. Lawrence that evening --

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MR. GLADDEN: -- of the 18th actually before I was

appointed. And met him for the first time and learned for

the first time that he had been in custody at the request of

the United States of America since March of 2004 in Nigerian

prisons or jails.

THE COURT: Uh-huh.



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MR. GLADDEN: At some point, he arrived here on, I

believe, July 3rd, 2013, just this last month. After

visiting with him, I was also advised by the Magistrate

Court at the time they asked me if I was available, that

there was a Scheduling Order in place with the Dispositive

Motions due that Friday, the same day I was to be appointed,

the next day in other words --

THE COURT: Oh well.

MR. GLADDEN: -- so --

THE COURT: What was the Magistrate Judge?

(Pause.)

THE COURT: I think I can tell you.

MR. GLADDEN: Judge --

THE COURT: George Hanks.

MR. GLADDEN: Yes. He had had --

THE COURT: I dont know, how could there have

been a --

MR. GLADDEN: -- there was an appointment of the

Pretrial Services. They represented one of the primary

witnesses --

THE COURT: Public defender.

MR. GLADDEN: -- Im sorry, Public Defenders

Office. They represented one of the primary witnesses in

the trial that was before you --

THE COURT: Years ago.



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MR. GLADDEN: -- almost 10 years ago.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: So they had a conflict. They -- I

was appointed on that Friday. Their office is closed on

that Friday because of the sequestration. I did speak with

the prosecuting attorney that was mentioned as being

representing the State in this case that day, on that

Friday. I told him I was going to be filing a Motion to

Dismiss on a speedy trial grounds and that Id like to have

him consent to that because it seems like nine years and

four months might be enough and we could resolve the case

expeditiously that way, rather than trying to try something

that happened 10 or 12 or more years ago. He did not agree

to it.

The Scheduling Order had the Motion due that day

on the 19th. I filed the Motion that day on the 19th.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: His response was due on the 24th.

He was, Im told, and that Friday he told me he was going to

be out of town for a few days, so I suspect hes going to

advise you that he was out of town beyond the 24th. There

still has not been a response filed.

Now, my client was delivered here from Nigeria

with the clothes he had on. He was not allowed to bring his

legal documents involving 11 years of being over there



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trying to get out. He didnt have his address book. He had

no recollection of telephone numbers or email addresses for

his family, his lawyer.

THE COURT: His family in Nigeria or here?

MR. GLADDEN: In Nigeria. Hes never been in the

United States before this last month. He was brought here

for the first time to address these charges. I have spent a

lot of time in getting to know the ins and outs of social

media this last month and have --

THE COURT: Time for everybody.

MR. GLADDEN: And have -- as of this morning,

located the lawyer that has represented him in Nigeria since

2004.

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MR. GLADDEN: Also, as of this morning, spoke to

and -- his older sister in Nigeria who gave me the correct

number for the lawyer that I have exchanged emails with and

just in the last hour have received documents evidencing --

evidence that would be material to the point --

THE COURT: The Motion.

MR. GLADDEN: -- that hed bring up. That being

apparently years of foot dragging and delays that -- and Im

just reading the documents in your courtroom for the first

time in the last few minutes. But the pleadings and the

scheduling and the delays that were all in the part of the



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Government over the last many years, I think will speak to

that point and Id like to move to amend my Motion to

Dismiss with some of this evidence.

Frankly, it appears from what Ive seen so far and

Ive asked the Government and I wrote them a letter last

week asking them to get me all documents, emails, pleadings,

text messages, document, you know, relative to his detention

in Nigeria, what caused it, what kept him there, what didnt

get him back here in something less than nine years and four

months. And Ive not received a response to that.

Ive not received a response to my Motion so Im

feeling a little bit ambushed but I would like leave to

modify my Motion. I think its probably the biggest quantum

contention that Ive also read the transcript of the five-

day long trial you had in 2004 and I supplied that to my

client. I have seen one of five large binders that the

Government has of DEA reports and FBI reports related to the

case. Ive not spent any time looking at those because

of -- and the last few months having been a witness to the

prosecution in the -- of the District Attorney in

Brownsville that was being -- is prosecuted and the Judge

and the various lawyers and actually I was scheduled to be a

witness for the United States tomorrow in Corpus Christi on

another one of those Defendants.

Ive been so disappointed in the FBI reports of my



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interviews and Im not a target, Im a Government witness

but, to paraphrase in the words of a Texas, those FBI

reports dont seem to be worth a warm bucket of -- and he

said, piss, but I think they changed it to spit for the

press. Therere about 80 percent wrong. Ive not -- Ive

struggled with that for my clients and their alleged

confessions for years but when its my statements that

theyre flipping 150 degrees for their own benefit even

though Im their witness, Ive decided Id rather be reading

a transcript than five big binders of their reports that I

dont put much credit in.

THE COURT: I see.

MR. GLADDEN: And with --

THE COURT: Okay. So the bottom line from your

perspective is that you want some discovery and time to file

an amended motion and/or fresh motion.

MR. GLADDEN: Well, I havent filed a response

yet.

THE COURT: I know but the responses are due or a

way with this just to --

MR. GLADDEN: There was the --

THE COURT: -- usually its 10 days, not a week.

MR. GLADDEN: Well, your Scheduling Order had it

due July 24th.

THE COURT: Thats not my Scheduling Order.



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MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: So I --

MR. GLADDEN: Thats what I was talking --

THE COURT: -- Id never make the Government or

anybody else respond in five days to a motion of this

nature.

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: So I appreciate your point and I dont

know Judge Haynes put it down that way, but anyway, it is

what it is, but nobody who practices before me thinks that

thats real so I might as well just enlighten you that --

MR. GLADDEN: I --

THE COURT: -- the Magistrate Judges Order is

never pointed anything on me and so Ill give you whatever

you want in the way of an extension of time. Thats not a

problem.

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: But Mr. Burns needs to have the formal

motion before he -- and a full motion and the fact that I

need a full motion before Im going to rule.

So the way Im interpreting all that youve said

is that you want some discovery. You need to get documents

from Nigeria from your -- from the Defendants family and on

this -- in order to even make this motion and that you want

to re-file something that is more fulsome and persuasive.



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Mr. Burns, whats the story on the discovery?

MR. BURNS: Theres no problem with discovery.

Just to make it clear, hes written -- theres not been a

formal request for discovery. What he asked for is what I

would consider work product relating to the extradition. He

wants emails that might have been exchanged between the

existing attorney and the case agent which I would say would

be --

THE COURT: The existing attorney meaning you?

MR. BURNS: No, I -- and here, this is Peter Mason

and James Alstons case and I recently just inherited within

the last probably 30 days, so Im just going to go to press,

but Counsels asked for stuff that I dont think is

discoverable. I have no problem complying with Rule 16,

Brady, Giglio, all that relating to discovery and I told him

so. I invited him over to my office and I -- that --

THE COURT: Right. But thats the merits. I

think the issue thats being raised at the moment, I mean,

the merits are also important, of course, but whats being

raised is the issue of why Mr. Lawrence was not extradited

far sooner. Frankly, Im interested in that too because

based on what I heard from the trial and Mr. Gladdens going

to read the transcript -- Mr. Lawrence is accused of having

been the mastermind if I recall correctly.

MR. BURNS: Thats correct. And --



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THE COURT: And has been for a while.

MR. BURNS: Thats correct. And from the little I

know, Judge, a probation arrest and Im in the process of

obtaining these documents. I dont have a single document

relating to this.

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. BURNS: But from what I understand, a

provisional arrest warrant was sent to Nigeria and he was

arrested four months later and if he wouldnt have contested

-- it was his contesting of the extradition that led to the

delay, you know, we sometimes -- we cant control what other

jurisdictions do and the way they handle their extradition

but it was based upon his accusations that he couldnt get a

fair trial in the United States that led to the lengthy

delay in the extradition. And the final judgment of the

Judge in Nigeria states that those were the grounds that he

denied his Motion upon. Now, why it took --

THE COURT: Well -- but how do we happen to get

moved or extradited now?

MR. BURNS: We cant -- the United States cant do

anything until the extraditions judgment takes effect and

it wont take effect until its appeals are exhausted and so

they go through a process fighting the extradition and

appealing any rulings. Again, I dont know exactly what

happened in these circumstance, but I do know that within



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six months of the Indictment, he was arresting in Nigeria.

And had he not fought the extradition, would have been sent

over fairly immediately to address his charges here.

THE COURT: So your position is based on what you

know -- limited amount you know now is that the delay was

attributable to his fighting extradition going through the

court system and trying to -- then appeal.

MR. BURNS: Yes, Judge.

THE COURT: What do you have to say?

MR. GLADDEN: According to the Affidavits that

are --

THE COURT: Oh, the --

MR. GLADDEN: -- part of the pleadings in Nigeria

that I have received copies -- of certified copies of this

morning or this afternoon actually. There was an attempted

abduction in late 2003 that was foiled of my client where

the persons claimed he was doing it at the behest of the

United States and that there was a warrant issued for him

over here. That didnt work out. The person got away

before he was actually abducted. I dont remember if he was

actually arrested and had to face charges for that illegal

behavior.

He was arrested pursuant to the United States

Request in March of 2004. He did contest that, but then

there was a series of years and years of the Government at



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someones behest not showing up and leaving him parked in

prison without a day in court.

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MR. GLADDEN: And it was apparently numerous, over

and over and over delay tactics on the part of the

Government over there. I --

THE COURT: Government being --

MR. GLADDEN: The Government --

THE COURT: -- the United States Government or the

Nigeria Government?

MR. GLADDEN: Thats why the Brady material Ive

asked for about all the communications; why was the Nigerian

Government housing him, feeding him and holding him at our

behest and refusing to come to court for years and years and

years.

THE COURT: I see.

MR. GLADDEN: I believe that they --

THE COURT: Maybe they wanted to be paid off.

MR. GLADDEN: -- I believe that -- I dont know

that thats possible. I dont know --

THE COURT: I have no idea --

MR. GLADDEN: -- who had anything to pay --

THE COURT: -- but it -- I dont either.

MR. GLADDEN: -- while he was in jail, but --

after all those years. But according to the records I



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received this morning, it was -- you couldnt get the

Government attorneys to come --

THE COURT: He was --

MR. GLADDEN: -- enjoin -- join the fray, no.

MR. GLADDEN: -- he --

MR. GLADDEN: No, no, the people that were holding

him at the United States -- the agents of the United States

that were holding him in custody at our request --

THE COURT: Oh, agents.

MR. GLADDEN: -- would not come to court.

THE COURT: Who are the agents that youre

referring to?

MR. GLADDEN: The Attorney Generals Office of

Nigeria that had picked him up at the United States --

THE COURT: Oh, so youre saying --

MR. GLADDEN: -- request.

THE COURT: -- oh, okay, yeah, youre saying that

the agents of the United States Government are the --

MR. GLADDEN: I think the things Im asking for is

the communications that would answer your question --

THE COURT: Okay. Fine.

MR. GLADDEN: -- why was the Attorney General --

THE COURT: Youre entitled to it.

MR. GLADDEN: -- not going forward on the

extradition matter? And, in fact, he has now been



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extradited or sent to this country while this appeal was

pending --

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MR. GLADDEN: -- at the objection of his lawyers.

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. GLADDEN: So there wasnt waiting for some

appeal to be over.

THE COURT: Okay. Well find some --

MR. GLADDEN: And Im curious why hes here now

but what the state of the evidence is such that they --

theyre ready to go forward now at this late date --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. GLADDEN: -- 9-1/2 years after they charged

him. I dont think theres been any diligence and part of

the pleadings and part of the complaints --

THE COURT: Mr. Gladden?

MR. GLADDEN: -- are --

THE COURT: Im really interested in this but Im

not ruling today and --

MR. GLADDEN: I understand.

THE COURT: -- youre arguing as if you think Im

going to rule today.

MR. GLADDEN: I understand. I dont --

THE COURT: I cant rule today. I hope you

understand that.



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MR. GLADDEN: I understand and I dont want you to

rule on the state of my Motion because I just got this

evidence today but I dont want a long delay. The

Scheduling Order that the Magistrate gave me has it set for

trial later this month on the 26th.

THE COURT: Do you want to go to trial on the

26th? I thought you didnt. I thought you really were

focused on the speedy trial issue.

MR. GLADDEN: I, having read the transcript, I

think our strongest defense right now is the fact that we

dont have a defense because of the delay and the change --

the train has left the station on his ability to get a

speedy trial and thats a fair trial so I would like a very

short delay with my clients permission to get my Motion to

you in order, a response from that and then some hearing

where we can present evidence. I believe once my Motion is

amended with the documents I just received.

THE COURT: Where did you get these documents?

MR. GLADDEN: I -- from his lawyers office --

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. GLADDEN: -- in Nigeria.

THE COURT: Are you going to share them?

MR. GLADDEN: Ive going to attach them to my

Motion.

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Great.



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MR. BURNS: I merely -- Judge, if I may, I merely

offered in this very simply discovery that I also be

entitled to at least receive copies of the documents that he

received from --

MR. GLADDEN: Im going to attach them to my

Motion and hes going to be --

THE COURT: All of them?

MR. GLADDEN: -- served with them. Yes, maam.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: Everything Ive got so far and Id

like to get more. And Id like to once he sees them, Id

like to have some notice as to whether hes going to

challenge -- they appear to be certified copies, copies of

certified copies with court stamps and all that kind of

stuff.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: Id like --

THE COURT: Great.

MR. GLADDEN: -- Id like to save a trip to

Nigeria to get originals.

THE COURT: Yeah, I totally agree with you there.

MR. GLADDEN: And Ive already talked to him about

going to Nigeria and hes not interested in going over there

to do any discovery so.

THE COURT: Okay. Okay. Well, Im trying to be



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accommodating to your request, Im just getting mixed

signals here so Im trying to figure out exactly what it is

youre asking for. You -- on the one hand you want

discovery. On the other hand you have some documents and

you want to push forward and you want them to be in quick

order.

On the third hand, we -- Mr. Burns is saying I

can give you everything Ive got on the trial but I dont

have much yet on how the extradition went and hes --

Mr. Burns as I understand it, is trying to gather that stuff

so he can make it available to you which I --

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: -- wholeheartedly believe is

necessary.

MR. GLADDEN: Thats not what I heard him say. I

heard him say it was a work product and he was not going to

make it available.

THE COURT: No, he said that what he has so far is

work product and wasnt making that, but he said it was

communications between lawyers is what I heard.

MR. BURNS: What I said, Judge -- what he was

asking for -- part of -- most of what he was asking for was

emails that would take place between the existing attorney

and the agent that might be writing the Affidavit saying,

Oh, you might need to put this in here or there might be



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additional information that you need or communication from

the Office of International Affairs where from here, where

the lawyers are saying, What exactly do you mean in my

extradition package? I dont even know if those emails

exist, but thats generally -- theres -- the nature of the

communications and once we send the extradition package up,

we usually have no contacts with OIA. Ill find out if

thats been --

THE COURT: Well, you know --

MR. BURNS: -- the case.

THE COURT: -- but OIAs part of the Federal

Government so their communications are relevant in terms of

discovery.

MR. BURNS: I dont know if I said discovery, I

certainly -- I mean, Judge rule, however you rule but --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. BURNS: -- I certainly -- if its internal

communication that relates to an investigation that might

still be ongoing or might somehow compromise some

information, Id at least ask the Court allow me to submit

it in-camera before we turn over anything I have.

THE COURT: Well, yeah, sure, but, Jesus, so when

are they going to get the documents --

MR. BURNS: You know, I --

THE COURT: -- from OIA or State or whatever it



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is?

MR. BURNS: Im not even sure what we have. Ive

asked for everything they have.

THE COURT: And who have you asked?

MR. BURNS: Ive asked the paralegal that --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. BURNS: -- her name --

THE COURT: Paralegal where?

MR. BURNS: -- paralegal at the office -- a

paralegal at the Office of International Affairs. And the

only reason I came in contact with her because she sent an

email actually this morning asking for the Judgment --

asking for the Judgment that I received when I first got

this case from the Court actually.

THE COURT: What judgment are you talking about?

MR. BURNS: The Judgment out of Nigeria stating

that the extradition was denied.

THE COURT: Extradition, see -- I -- okay. Im --

MR. BURNS: So --

THE COURT: -- coming into the middle of the movie

here. I dont --

MR. BURNS: When I and Counsel who was appointed

in the case received the same document. This is documents

we received -- weve made its initial appearance. Thats

the same day that I was told and actually appeared and I got



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a package from the Court that had -- you know, they

generally have the arrest warrant, the Indictment that lets

the Defense know exactly what hes charged with and thats

the only document -- that and the Judgment which was a long,

maybe 25-30 page document from the -- from Nigeria. Those

are the only documents I had related to this case and so

thats the Judgment I guess that they used as a basis to

finally extradite him here saying his contesting of his

extradition that was finally denied --

THE COURT: And when was that?

MR. BURNS: -- and therefore he should --

THE COURT: Roughly what year?

MR. BURNS: I want to say this year.

THE COURT: Okay. 2013 or 12?

MR. BURNS: Yes.

THE COURT: Something like that.

MR. BURNS: I believe it was 2103. Im not

absolutely sure on that.

THE COURT: I see. Okay.

And -- well, what about Mr. Alston and Mr. whoever

it is that had this case before?

MR. BURNS: Well, you know Alston is a defense

attorney now.

THE COURT: Well, I know but he didnt take his

files with him, those are Government files.



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You dont think he left the files on his case with

the office?

MR. BURNS: Oh, I have -- those files I have. I

havent found anything related to extradition.

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. BURNS: Thats -- I -- when I talk about

discovery, thats the files Im referring to that are

discoverable --

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. BURNS: -- and related to the investigation.

But there -- I couldnt find an extradition package so I

called the woman I spoke with today and asked her to send me

the actual extradition package and anything else related to

the case.

THE COURT: I see. Okay. So how about we get

together in two more weeks and at that point I need

Mr. Alston here or some sort of a report from you about what

hes given you and we need the OIG or whatever, the OIA or

whatever the organization is that the Federal Government has

that works on extradition. They have to have a whole file

on this. I mean, my recollection is that it was represented

to me when I sentenced some of these other people that the

Government was working getting Mr. Lawrence over here. I

mean, I dont think the individual standing in front of me

were working on it but they understood that that was what



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was happening and that he was fighting extradition. This

was just sort of informal --

MR. BURNS: Right.

THE COURT: -- comment when I would ask at the end

of the sentencing or --

MR. BURNS: But Im pretty sure that our role in

that, Judge, is when the Office of International Affairs

simply sends a bunch of certified documents to the Embassy

that is subsequently given to the proper authorities and we

pay, I believe, absolutely nothing --

THE COURT: We being?

MR. BURNS: United States -- the United States.

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. BURNS: As if somebody -- you know, when we

extradite somebody from this country, the foreign Government

doesnt play a role in our process. We go through our

process here in subsequently extraditing --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. BURNS: -- same as there. You know,

certainly, if thats not the case, I need --

THE COURT: Well, yeah, and it doesnt sound like

you know much about it yet so I dont want to put you on the

spot and I know Mr. Gladden seems to be in a rush, I

understand that so we need, in two weeks, to get a full

status report and, frankly, Id like -- you need to make a



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chronology of what happened as best you can put it together,

okay? Im asking you to do that so that we all know whats

going -- and the Office of International Affairs has to turn

over its entire file to you and then you can tell me and

tell Mr. Gladden what it is that you think is privilege and

redact the privilege stuff. You have to do a privilege log

and then you turn over everything else thats not privilege,

the packet and all that. I mean, Im not interested in the

communications that are classically work product but I am

interested -- or attorney-client privilege, but I am

interested in knowing what youre not turning over in a

privilege log and I am interested in knowing what the

timeline was and, frankly, what documents were sent over --

prepared and sent as part of the process of getting the

extradition.

And we need -- well, we will need somebody from

whatever the office is that was dealing with Nigeria to

explain to us and to document the file because thats not

privileged. Give us the documents from that file.

MR. BURNS: I would just ask, Judge, that we dont

-- certainly this deserves proper attention --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. BURNS: -- but, you know, its possible for us

to sort of get too bogged down because, I mean, as a matter

of fact, the Government would have no interest in delaying



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his extradition.

THE COURT: I -- that may be, but I -- youre

representation of that is not insufficient.

MR. BURNS: But the point -- no, my point is: the

only thing thats really relevant, I believe, are the dates,

the dates that are --

THE COURT: The dates in the documents that

establish those dates.

MR. BURNS: Exactly.

THE COURT: Yeah.

MR. BURNS: And once we find those dates, I mean,

I think the case law will walk us through everything else.

THE COURT: Maybe, but were entitled to know what

the Government did to get Mr. Lawrence here, okay?

MR. BURNS: I understand.

THE COURT: And --

MR. BURNS: Sure.

MR. GLADDEN: And what they did to keep him from

getting here.

THE COURT: Or didnt do, yes.

MR. GLADDEN: And for the Government to suggest

that the United States has no interest or role or any

authority over foreign Governments holding people in prison

for us is not --

THE COURT: Is this the first international case



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youve ever had?

MR. GLADDEN: Does not comport -- no, maam, it

does not comport with the published news reports of us

having people held in prison by other Government at our

behest --

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: -- all over the country --

THE COURT: Okay. Great.

MR. GLADDEN: -- all over the world.

THE COURT: Youre entitled to whatever your view

is and thats fine. Im just going to litigate this case;

do you hear me?

MR. GLADDEN: Yes.

THE COURT: Im not interested in the views --

MR. GLADDEN: I understand.

THE COURT: -- whether the CIA or some other

defense department is -- God knows what other agency is

doing something along the lines youre describing, okay? I

can watch 24 just like you can watch 24.

MR. GLADDEN: Yes.

THE COURT: So the point is: Im not interested.

What I am interested in is this case.

MR. GLADDEN: Yes.

THE COURT: okay? And I know what was represented

to me eight -- ten whatever number of years ago it was which



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is: Mr. Lawrence was hotly contesting his extradition. Now,

maybe that accounts for a couple of years, but not all of

them splaying right into your argument or maybe there was

something else that went on, but Ive just finished telling

Mr. Burns that he has to give me the documents relating to

the efforts the United States made to get Mr. Lawrence here,

okay?

MR. GLADDEN: Yes, maam.

THE COURT: Now, if you have some other source of

documents that you think is appropriate for us to get, then

you may make whatever requests of Mr. Burns you want or

requests of me and Ill deal with those specifics when I get

them, okay? Im very interested. I dont know what it is

that you think may have happened in this case and so you

have access to lots of information that Mr. Burns doesnt

seem to have so youll have your opportunity to present that

too, okay?

MR. GLADDEN: Yes.

THE COURT: Im very interested.

MR. BURNS: Yes.

THE COURT: So --

MR. BURNS: Yes, maam.

THE COURT: -- I would like a report in two weeks.

MR. BURNS: Before we set that certain date --

THE COURT: Okay.



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MR. BURNS: -- I have a personal conflict with it.

THE COURT: Oh, okay.

MR. BURNS: Maam, Im taking my kid to college,

but --

THE COURT: Uh-huh. You have --

MR. BURNS: -- I could make it three --

THE COURT: -- a kid that could go to college?

MR. BURNS: -- but could we do it -- make it three

weeks?

THE COURT: Must be a child -- yes, we can.

MR. BURNS: No.

THE COURT: Is it a child prodigy or what?

MR. BURNS: Youd be surprised, Judge, I think Im

the oldest one in the courtroom right now.

THE COURT: Wrong, that is so wrong.

MR. BURNS: If thats okay.

THE COURT: When -- well, what do you think two

weeks is? Lets see --

MR. BURNS: Its the week of the 20th in there.

THE COURT: The 20th is the same.

MR. GLADDEN: I think if we did in the afternoon

of the 27th works for me, Judge.

THE COURT: Okee dokee.

MR. GLADDEN: And I take it thats just to get our

heads all together and see where we are.



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THE COURT: See where we are, right.

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: Yeah, Im going to be here, Im going

to be in trial.

You want to do it at 3:30?

MR. BURNS: Im -- sure, Your Honor.

THE COURT: On the 27th?

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. BURNS: And secondly --

THE COURT: And I do want, Mr. Gladden, for you to

turn over what youve got.

MR. GLADDEN: Uh-huh.

THE COURT: I dont consider this privileged in

the way youre describing it. If theres some privilege --

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: -- material you think you want to

withhold, you can do a privilege log also, okay?

MR. GLADDEN: It appears from the court documents

from Nigeria, theres certified copies and I was going to

just --

THE COURT: So --

MR. GLADDEN: -- attach them to my Motion and give

them a copy.

THE COURT: -- well, youre welcome to go ahead



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and make it -- Im going to just deny your Motion without

prejudice so you can make a fresh motion that actually

covers the waterfront, that is, the current motion. But --

and I understand and appreciate that you did it in a rush so

you would preserve your right and it was interesting, but

the whole point is that Id like a fresh motion with

meaningful documentation cited and attached so we have it

all in one place.

I am prepared to give you a date if want it, but I

was thinking that we would get together in three weeks. You

will have more information. Mr. Burns will have his

chronology and his documents and you will get them and

hopefully in advance of the meeting. And you will do the

same in exchange and then well make an informed schedule;

would that make sense?

MR. GLADDEN: It makes sense to me.

THE COURT: Okay. Because --

MR. GLADDEN: It --

THE COURT: -- with all due respect to

Mr. Lawrence, you have a motion pending and Im going to say

that because this issue as youve said on more than one

occasion here, that the speedy trial issue is your -- is a

very strong issue for you and so Im going to just ask that

you find out if your client wants to waive the Speedy Trial

Act and if you are asking me to count this period while we



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sort out the speedy trial issue as excludable delay,

otherwise, Im just going to have to put you to trial and I

dont think you want that.

MR. GLADDEN: Right.

THE COURT: Its okay with me to wait. I should

tell you. I just think if were going to do the speedy

trial motion then we need to do it and do it right.

MR. GLADDEN: I think we would not object to

agreeing that from this day to --

THE COURT: No, from the date you filed your

Motion, I assume, you mean.

MR. GLADDEN: -- from --

THE COURT: The original Motion, no?

MR. GLADDEN: Well --

THE COURT: That would be the typical time where

we count.

MR. GLADDEN: -- okay. From the day we file that

Motion until that is resolves, we will not be contesting

that delay --

THE COURT: Sure.

MR. GLADDEN: -- contributing to his denial of

getting a speedy trial.

THE COURT: Right, and thats without prejudice to

your arguments regarding the period from 2003 through to the

date you filed your Motion. Thats without prejudice to



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that and your argument you might make at that time.

MR. BURNS: May I also point out, Judge, that the

case has been certified as complex by this Court which --

THE COURT: You mean, from the -- previously,

true.

MR. BURNS: Yes. And just as a future reference,

when we start talk about setting a trial date, you know,

there are volumes of documents that need to be explored,

both from Mr. Gladdens perspective as well as mine. And

while, you know, I understand Mr. Gladden is about to hurry

up things, I believe that he --

THE COURT: He would want to see --

MR. BURNS: -- would most respectively --

THE COURT: -- this discovery.

MR. BURNS: Yes.

THE COURT: He would want to see it Im sure.

MR. BURNS: Yes.

THE COURT: Okay. Well, fine, so youre going to

turn that stuff over, this -- the merits-type documents.

Youre -- are you making that all available?

MR. BURNS: Yes.

THE COURT: Is it scanned?

MR. BURNS: Well, no, it -- in the action, we

dont turn over reports.

THE COURT: Right, you have them come read them.



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MR. BURNS: Yes, but that -- theyve been put in

binders and easily accessible so.

THE COURT: And the trial transcript he already

has.

MR. BURNS: He already has trial transcript.

THE COURT: And the exhibits to the extent there

were any.

MR. BURNS: If there was a trial notebook, he

certainly -- Im certain well let him look at the exhibits

and certainly have copies of anything that would be

relevant.

THE COURT: Well, appeal, Im sure there were

appeals.

MR. BURNS: Its just kind of hard.

MR. GLADDEN: There was an appeal and Ive got the

trial transcript from the appellate lawyer. I do not have

the exhibits but they should be somewhere available.

THE COURT: Well, I would think that -- whats the

name of one of the Defendants that went to trial?

Can you figure that out?

MR. GLADDEN: Yes, Your Honor. Aransiola,

A-R-A-N --

THE COURT: What is it?

MR. GLADDEN: A-R --

THE COURT: Deronzio?



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MR. GLADDEN: No, Aransiola, A-R-A-N-S-I-O-L-A.

THE COURT: Adeniji. Just a minute.

MR. GLADDEN: There was also a Kassim,

K-A-S-S-I-M, first name --

THE COURT: Kassim.

MR. GLADDEN: -- T-A-I-Y-E.

THE COURT: Yeah, Ive read that, thank you,

Kassim, Aransiola, okay. I tried this case in June 2004

with Alston, Mason and Kuniansky and Catherine ODaniel and

Edmond OSugi. I tried it for the Defense. And --

MR. GLADDEN: I can feel your pain having read the

transcripts.

THE COURT: I know. So anyway, it was a five-day

trial. The point is that there are tons of exhibits in that

trial and I marked them for identification and for

admission, of course, so --

MR. GLADDEN: All of them --

THE COURT: -- I am sure they are available

somewhere. I would think they were in the Appellate Record

but its possible the Government maintained them. You need

to appeal although I don't know.

MR. GLADDEN: My research --

THE COURT: I just dont know.

MR. GLADDEN: -- my research has identified most

of the witnesses in that case are swallowers, mules that



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swallowed stuff --

THE COURT: Right.

MR. GLADDEN: -- and came from Nigeria.

THE COURT: And al lot of them pled guilty and

testify.

MR. GLADDEN: And they were all sentenced to

anything from time served to 3-1/2 years to five years and

theyre all out.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: And may be back in Nigeria. I dont

know.

THE COURT: Yes, a lot of them were Nigerians so

they probably did get deported, youre right.

MR. GLADDEN: Well, actually, most of them had

dual citizenship but they had never really lived here except

to --

THE COURT: Oh, okay.

MR. GLADDEN: -- smuggle heroin in.

THE COURT: Oh.

MR. GLADDEN: They had been born here but left the

country in infancy and because they had the passports --

THE COURT: Oh, right, thats right.

MR. GLADDEN: -- they were able to get in a little

easier than non-citizens.

THE COURT: I see. That means no.



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MR. GLADDEN: So I dont know that theyd still be

here. Most of them -- all their family and their roots were

in Nigeria or Ghana so --

THE COURT: Okay. Well, Ill give you the names

of the lawyers, the Defense attorneys: Catherine ODaniel

and OSugi.

MR. GLADDEN: Ive got the transcript.

THE COURT: You have it all.

MR. GLADDEN: Yeah.

THE COURT: Okay. Well, anyway, turn over the

discovery, Mr. Burns, dig it up. If you have any problems,

let me know, Im happy to make -- issue orders if they have

to be brought back from storage. I do think the exhibits

are important so we have to figure out where they are. And

Ill make the following speedy trial findings:

First of all, this is a complex case on the merits

and I find that the Defendants interest in developing --

well, in Counsels interest in gaining knowledge of the

facts and developing a legal strategy outweighs the

Defendants and the publics interest in a speedy trial.

The case does involve volumes of documents and I think that

the fact that the case is so old, does make the

reconstruction of the file a little more difficult than

usual.

I would like to make sure that the Defendant



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himself is agreeable to the speedy trial delay from the time

of the filing of the Motion, which in this case was, I

believe, July 9th.

MR. GLADDEN: July 19th, Your Honor, I believe.

THE COURT: 19th through the time that I decide

the speedy trial motion is excludable delay under the Speedy

Trial Act.

Mr. Lawrence, are you following all this?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: (No verbal response.)

MR. GLADDEN: There may be a little bit of a

language barrier. Hes not --

THE COURT: Now you tell me?

MR. GLADDEN: No, Im not -- well, he speaks

English, okay.

THE COURT: Mr. Lawrence, let me ask you

something.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yes, maam.

THE COURT: Okay. Are you understanding whats

happening here?


THE COURT: Okay. Do you speak English?


THE COURT: What other languages do you speak?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: My language, Yoruba.

THE COURT: What is it?



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DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yoruba?

THE COURT: Yoruba?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yeah.

THE COURT: And when you were talking to your

lawyer, what language are you speaking?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: English.

THE COURT: Okay. When you did -- do business or

dealings with the prison, were you speaking English or

Yoruba?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: They dont understand me.

THE COURT: So who -- what do you speak at the

prison?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: At times I write it for them.

THE COURT: Okay. And what language are you

writing?


THE COURT: Okay. And when you speak to your

lawyer what do you say -- what language are you speaking?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: He talks slowly to me.

THE COURT: He talks slowly to you?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: In what language?


THE COURT: English? Okay.

Do you think you need an interpreter in this case?



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MR. GLADDEN: It would help me, Judge. Ive had

to have him write some sentences because I couldnt

understand him. Now, he speaks English as you see, but its

very difficult for me to understand his English sometimes.

THE COURT: Uh-huh. Okay. Well, that has to his

accent, I think.

But are you under -- and were going to have to

get an interpreter. I mean, I feel like we need to redo

this whole conference.

MR. GLADDEN: Im sorry I didnt mention that.

THE COURT: Yeah. So heres what well do: we

will redo this entire conference in three weeks. Mr. --

MR. GLADDEN: Lawrence.

THE COURT: -- Lawrence, do you understand that

your lawyer is asking me to dismiss this case against you

because he says that the Government of the United States

took too long to bring you over to here to the United States

from Nigeria; do you understand that?


THE COURT: Yes or no?


THE COURT: And do you understand what Im saying?


THE COURT: Have you understood what I was saying



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before?


THE COURT: Okay. Do you understand that the

Government is supposed to be giving information papers about

the efforts the United States Government made to bring you

to the United States? The Governments supposed to find

those papers and give them to your lawyer.


THE COURT: Do you understand that?


THE COURT: I need you to answer all these

questions out loud, okay?


THE COURT: No, all he has to do is speak.

MR. GLADDEN: Right.

THE COURT: He just cant nod his head. Hes -- I

can hear him. Okay.

So, Mr. Lawrence?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Uh-huh.

THE COURT: Is lawyer -- your lawyer has received

some papers from Nigeria; do you understand that? Yes?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Im just -- I'm just getting

them, ma'am.

THE COURT: Youre hearing -- because you are

hearing what he was telling me?



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DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yes.

THE COURT: Yes?


THE COURT: Okay. So I asked the Government

lawyer to get more papers from Washington D.C. or from

wherever he can get them about what efforts the Government

of the United States made to get you here or made to keep

you in Nigeria as your lawyer would put it.


THE COURT: And Im also asking your lawyer to

gather what papers he can get from you and your family and

your friends and your lawyer in Nigeria or any other

place --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Okay.

THE COURT: -- and then your lawyer will turn

those papers over as appropriate --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Oh.

THE COURT: -- to Mr. Burns, the Government

lawyer.


THE COURT: And your lawyer has made a motion, a

request to me to have -- to dismiss this case against you --


THE COURT: -- because of the delay in your coming

here.



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THE COURT: I have told your lawyer I am not

granting that motion right now --


THE COURT: -- because it is incomplete, but I am

giving him an opportunity to gather more paper and

information and make a new motion for me to consider.


THE COURT: A motion will be more complete and a

motion that then the Government will respond to and then I

can decide what to do.


THE COURT: I have to decide whether or not the

case is so old that it should be dismissed.


THE COURT: I have to decide whether what you did

or the United States did when you were in Nigeria caused the

delay of 9-1/2 years.


THE COURT: Since the case was brought here in the

United States, from then until now.

Okay. I have to decide whether the case should be

dismissed because of what you did or the United States did.


THE COURT: Okay?



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DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Okay, maam.

THE COURT: I cant decide that right away.


THE COURT: I dont have enough information. I

have nothing. This is it so your lawyers gathering paper.

The Government lawyers gathering papers and I need to give

them time to do that because of the distances and the time

passage.


THE COURT: So I would like to know if its okay

with you --


THE COURT: -- that we delay some more trying this

case so that your lawyer and the Government lawyer can give

me the papers for me to decide whether to dismiss the case

without a trial.


THE COURT: Now, ultimately thought, its more

delay. Its going to take a month or two months --


THE COURT: -- at least for me to get the papers,

get the motion, get the response and then for me to read it

all and decide.


THE COURT: Is that okay that we delay for two



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months at least?


THE COURT: It could be three months, could be

a -- I just dont know until the lawyers come back and tell

me.


THE COURT: Is that okay?


THE COURT: All right. And then if I dismiss the

case because its been too old -- too long and too old then

case over. I guess youll go back to Nigeria.


THE COURT: If you -- if I do not dismiss the case

--


THE COURT: -- then you have to stand trial

meaning Government calls witnesses, you have a free lawyer.

Are you paying anything for Mr. Gladden, any money

to him?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: No, maam.

THE COURT: No? Okay. CJA, right? He did --

MR. GLADDEN: Thats right.

THE COURT: -- the Affidavit?

MR. GLADDEN: Thats right. First CJA case since

I agreed to be on that list.



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THE COURT: (Laughs,) okay. So if I do not

dismiss the case -- do you know what the word dismiss

means?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: (No verbal response.)

THE COURT: Knock the case out, require it to be

dropped. If I do not dismiss, then the case will go forward

and we will have a trial with witnesses and papers in front

of a jury if you want all that. Okay? If you want it. If

you dont want it, your lawyer and you can decide that.


THE COURT: Thats not for today.


THE COURT: All right. So are you agreeable -- I

mean, you have the right to make the Government bring this

case to trial within a month or two -- two months. You have

that right. You could push it to trial if you prefer.

Do you understand what Im saying?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: (No audible response.)

THE COURT: So you and your lawyer need to talk

about whether you want to go for a trial right now, soon, in

the next two months or let me decide about this delay and

decide whether the case has to be dismissed.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: All right.

THE COURT: Tell me what I just -- tell me -- can

you explain back to me what your choices are?



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DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: That I -- the Court is going

to take more time because of the time and for myself and

from --

THE COURT: Government.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- So Im --

THE COURT: In order to decide --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- and to decide.

THE COURT: -- what?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: So Id already --

THE COURT: -- to decide whether or not the case

has been pending too long?


THE COURT: Would you rather I do that?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: Or would you rather I go -- make them

go to trial?


THE COURT: Which one? You can talk to him.

MR. GLADDEN: May I --

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GLADDEN: May I, Your Honor?

THE COURT: You can talk to him privately.

THE COURT: I think what we need to decide right

now is: If we delay it, were asking for the delay so we

cant complain about these next two months. We can still



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complain about 9-1/2 years of delay but we cannot complain

about the delay between -- in the next two or three months,

okay? You need to waive any complaint about that.

THE COURT: Yeah, but --

MR. GLADDEN: Were asking for that delay.


MR. GLADDEN: Okay? So we can see if we can win

this case on our Motion to Dismiss. We dont want a jury

trial in three or four or five or six weeks. We want to try

to get the case dismissed if we can but we need more

information so were not going to complain about this little

delay later; do you understand?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: I understand.

THE COURT: Okay.


THE COURT: So, all right, then I think the

Defendant does understand and the next time well have an

interpreter here and well go through it all again.

Sheila, will you put that in the minutes?

THE CLERK: I did.

THE COURT: But I think the Defendant does

understand that he has the choice about going to trial on

the merits right away or delaying for a few months to see if

the case can be dismissed just because its been so long

that hes been in a Nigerian jail.



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THE COURT: You understand thats the choice?


THE COURT: Would you rather have a little more

delay so we can sort out whether to dismiss the case?


THE COURT: Yes? And postpone the trial --


THE COURT: -- a few more months down the road?


THE COURT: Okay. If we do the Motion to Dismiss

and the delay process --


THE COURT: -- short delay process, then your

trial will be postponed till probably January if you want a

trial; do you understand?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: I do.

THE COURT: And I dont dismiss the case.

MR. GLADDEN: Right.

THE COURT: Okay. I think the Defendant has the

fundamentals of this -- on this and youve talked to him

about it I take it.

MR. GLADDEN: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Then Im deeming that the

Defendant has waived his speedy trial rights and Im going



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to give you a waiver paper and you can talk to him privately

about it and if he elects to sign it Id like that back

today.

MR. GLADDEN: Okay.

THE COURT: If he chooses not to sign it, Id like

you to make a record on that.

MR. GLADDEN: I just had a quick question, Judge.

THE COURT: And then youll decide when you want

to file your Motion. Im just going to leave it at that for

the time being. But, again, I guess in the interest of

justice and Speedy Trial Act, Ill leave your current Motion

pending.

MR. GLADDEN: All right.

THE COURT: I said I was denying it without

prejudice but I reversed that. Im going to leave it

pending and then you will file an amended motion.

MR. GLADDEN: That makes sense to me, Judge.

THE COURT: Which completely will supersede the

old one.


THE COURT: But that way I think its a little

simpler for administrative purposes.

And, Sheila, will you talk to the interpreters

about the type of interpreter we need?

THE CLERK: I will get them to you.



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THE COURT: Huh?

THE CLERK: I have them.

THE COURT: Yeah. How do you spell the language?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Y.

THE COURT: Yoruba.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Y --

THE COURT: Y --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- O --

THE COURT: -- O --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- R --

THE COURT: -- R --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- U --

THE COURT: -- U --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: B-A.

THE COURT: B-E?

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: B-A, Ba.

THE COURT: Y-U -- okay, B-A.


THE COURT: You got it? Y --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: Y-O --

THE CLERK: O.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- R --

THE CLERK: -- R --

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- U --

THE CLERK: -- U --



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DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: -- B-A.

THE CLERK: -- B, okay.

DEFENDANT LAWRENCE: B-A, yes.

THE CLERK: A?


THE COURT: And can you show him this to make sure

we got it spelled correctly? Here hold it up, Sheila, for

Mr. Lawrence to see.

(Voices off the Record.)

MR. GLADDEN: Y-O-R-U-B-A.

THE COURT: Okay. Fine. Okay, once we -- you

should go down, Mr. Gladden, and talk to the interpreters

and see what theyve got because I would not mind if you

come over early the next time and meet your client with that

interpreter present or figure out if they have someone you

can fire that CJA would pay for --

MR. GLADDEN: Uh-huh.

THE COURT: -- so that you can have some

conferences with your client in Yoruba, its said, okay?


THE COURT: And that way we can have -- assure

that hes understanding. Im concerned that this process of

a jury trial and some of what were doing is not the same in

Nigeria. I dont know that they have these rights there, in

fact, I have a distinct sense they dont. Im not trying to



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cast dispersions, Im just thinking theres some cultural

differences and, therefore, it would pay for us to have the

translation in his native language sometimes for the essence

for what you guys are talking about just as a double check

on the English.

MR. GLADDEN: I have made an extra copy of the

thousand pages of transcripts from that trial and made them

available to him and he has read them Im told so he has

some sense of what a trials like --

THE COURT: Oh, good.

MR. GLADDEN: -- and what its about and what

happens --

THE COURT: Is that true?


THE COURT: Okay.

MR. GLADDEN: And just, I mean, Im trying to stay

on top of that.

THE COURT: Yeah, Im not trying to second guess

you, its just I have occasionally had some other cases

where it looked patently obvious to me that there was no

language problem and I was assured there was no language

problem or similar kinds of problems and then after the

fact, it comes back around that someone says there was and

so Im now exceedingly cautious about this and its not

intended to cast dispersions or anything.



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MR. GLADDEN: Im sorry I didnt bring it up. I

know that --

THE COURT: No problem.

MR. GLADDEN: -- there would have been a -- I

think Im supposed to give notice in advance if I need such

an interpreter and I think I thought about it this morning

for the first time, but --

THE COURT: Okay. Well, its okay, well -- were

going to mark it on the list so hopefully well have one

here next time and you can have one if you need it.

MR. GLADDEN: I made a client copy of the

little -- and I have it here.

THE COURT: Oh, I vacate one -- oh, I apologize,

Im vacating the Magistrate Judges Schedule. I think

thats apparent and at the next conference in three weeks,

we will set a schedule for the rest of the case.

MR. GLADDEN: Okay. I probably should be asking

the Marshal instead of you, but can I have client copies of

these documents from Nigeria I just got this afternoon?

THE COURT: Yeah, theyre legal documents. We

dont --

MR. GLADDEN: I didnt know if there was any --

THE MARSHAL: There's no --

MR. GLADDEN: -- instructions?

THE MARSHAL: Theres no paper clips.



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MR. GLADDEN: All right. Okay. Good.

THE COURT: Oh, where theres just no paper clips

or staples?

THE MARSHAL: Right.

THE COURT: Okay. Sounds good. So youll make a

copy for Mr. Burns too?

MR. GLADDEN: Ill get him copies and is he --

now, should we expect --

THE COURT: CJA pays for the copies, dont worry

about it.

MR. GLADDEN: -- should we expect a reply before

that next meeting with the Court so we can file --

THE COURT: No. Im not going to be able in the

real world. I think that I will be able to rule if it

needs --

MR. GLADDEN: Not your reply, a reply to my

motion.

THE COURT: Oh response?

MR. GLADDEN: Yeah.

THE COURT: It depends on when you make your

motion. Im not expecting your motion to come until -- what

I was expecting at the next conference was the following:

An exchange of documents hopefully before the

conference, even if its only a couple of days because the

Government -- all Governments seem to move slowly lately.



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But anyway, Mr. Burns has his obligation to dig up all the

documents relating to the extradition, go through them, turn

over everything he can and if he withholds anything, make a

privilege log. Youre going to do the same thing for

whatever your sources.

I would like the documents turned over at least a

couple of days before the hearing. Lets say no later than

Monday at noon. At least we have a day with them -- Monday

the 26th at noon.

And then you all will have a sense of whats out

there and you can then tell me, Mr. G

Koyode Conference

Documents