IWE ITAN ILE ALFA HAJJI BY DAUDA AWWAL

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HOW TO CONDUCT A SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEW Copyright (c) Dauda Y.M. Awwal 2009 Re-published 2009 . All rights reserved, no part of this book may be reproduced, stored in retrieval system, or transmitted to any form or by any means electronics or mechanical including photocopying, without permission in writing from the author. For permission, please contact: AFRICA Dauda Y.M. Awwal National Assembly Complex Garki, Abuja, Nigeria. -------- Dansarari Plaza, Plot 788 Loma Mensa Street, Wuse Zone 4, FCT Abuja, Nigeria +234 803 713 6134 / + 00234 806 070 3949 ------------------------ UNITED KINGDOM 54 Camberwell Road, London, SE5 0EN Tel: +44 793 279 2395 Email: dawwal @ yahoo.com ---------- Published by: Awwal Production International Suite 14 Olayinka Osholonge Complex, Ladega, Lagos, Nigeria. P.O Box 74301 Adeola Odeku Victoria Island, Lagos, Nigeria. First Printed in United Kingdom Re-printed in Nigeria ISBN:978-978-902-016-4

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CONTENT

Dedication - v Forward - vii Preface - ix Acknowledgement - xi CHAPTER ONE How to Conduct A Successful Interview - 4-5 During the Interview - 6 After the Interview - 7 CHAPTER TWO Other Types of Interview - 8 CHAPTER THREE The Craft of Revision/Editing - 9 Photographs - 11 Copyright - 12 CHAPTER FOUR Tools of reporters Exclusive Selected Interviews - 13 Journalist’s Creed - 14

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DEDICATION

I Dedicate this Book To all Journalists, living and dead who have suffered humiliation and pain in the hands of oppressive governments worldwide.

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ACKNOWLEDGEMENT Many people have contributed to my life especially my education and moral support. I really would like to thank my Tutor Mr. Ken Ashton who taught me so much about Investigative Journalism at London School of Journalism in United Kingdom. A huge thank to everyone who contributed throughout this book particularly veteran Journalist Mr. Joseph Fakorede who Edited this book and Mr. Tunde Savage, H.O.D Nigerian Institute of Journalism Ogba, Ikeja Lagos who wrote the forward of this book.

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FOREWORD

This book as small as it looks is loaded with insightful and simple details for any qualified journalist who has an eye on the future. It contains simple wisdom that can be practically used for optimum results considering the fact that the book was written by a man who has been in the business of journalism for some good number of year and won recognition in several countries which attest to the reality of what he is talking about. I have gone through the contents and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to excel in the field of journalism and beginners-students in Universities, Polytechnics and other institutions involved in the training of students for the journalism market and media practitioners worldwide, and anything that has to do with sharing ideas with the public. Joseph O. Fakorede Columnist, Success Digest Extra, Newspaper

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INTRODUCTION

Interviewing is a skill, if you are a feature writer, Journalist or researcher, this Book is designed as a gateway to your ability to speak to people and gain further valuable information. Journalists keep people informed about events happening locally and globally by researching, interviewing, writing, presenting new stories and feature articles in Newspapers, Magazines, on radio and television, journalism is an interesting rewarding and often exciting profession. All Journalists need to be inquisitive and persistent, they must find out the full facts of a story and this involves using tact and diplomacy when dealing with a sensitive subject such as death, the journalist must be a good listener and able to ask hard-hitting questions, also need to be balanced and objective. There is need for trained journalists to know how to conduct interviews successfully and must be good communicators. What are the preparation before the interview?. What to do during the interview and after the interview?. How to write your piece and the craft of editing and how to submit your write-up with pictures before the final publication. This hand book mention to this duty, the tools of the reporter in the journalistic setting and also explain the techniques for successful interviews and writing skill in simple pedagogic style and clear language with illustrations in a modern way which makes it useful to all journalists and journalism students worldwide. You will achieve grounding in all aspects of interviews, theory and practical and how to write appropriate headlines, captions and “standfirst”, laying out finished pages and using pictures, text and associated page to furniture the maximum effect. How to avoid using inverted sentences, jargons, clichés and slang. I also mentioned the dangers of libel and how to avoid other legal pitfalls.

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How different techniques are used to achieve specific effects during and after the interview. This book focuses on the importance of interviews in feature writing, using standfirst and different feature introductions to play up a strong news angle or maximise a story’s human interest, explaining eyewitness and offbeat approaches. This book consists of selection of many exclusive interviews with dignitaries, published by local and foreign newspapers and magazines. The various interviews will offer you a new and fresh insight into the interviewing skill, theory and practical. An Interview can be conducted over the phone, email and face-to-face using recording equipment. It is also helpful to avoid unnecessary wasting of time during the interview and after the interview. Finally, I hope this Book will be useful at all levels. DAUDA Y.M. AWWAL

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CHAPTER ONE INTERVIEW

Interviewing is a skill, if you are a Feature Writer, Journalist or Researcher, you

need the ability to speak to people to gain further information.

Interview is a meeting at which a reporter asks relevant questions in order to

elicit responses from the interviewee. It is more than a quiz or a question and

answer session.

News interview is the act of meeting people face to face or using telephone to

find out and write a report about an issue or institution or personality. The

interview provides an opportunity for the reporter and plays this role as a link

between the public and the individual. Through the reporter the interviewee

speaks to the public in a familiar conversational manner.

A Professional reporter must set his/her questions logically and must be

articulate. A good interview can give the medium a good exclusive story or

information that can put the medium ahead of others.

Interview also gives the mass press media advantage of getting deeper down the

hidden reason behind the surface occurrence or event. It makes celebrities and

officials to disclose what ordinarily they would not have disclosed.

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CHAPTER TWO

HOW TO CONDUCT A SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEW

Keep these Five Ws and H to set your Questions.

1. - WHAT . . . ?

2. - WHY . . . ?

3. - WHEN … ?

4. - WHERE . . . ?

5 - WHO . . . ?

6 - HOW . . . ?

BEFORE THE INTERVIEW; PREPARATION

1. The first stage is research work before going to the interview, the reporter

must have to be well-equipped with sufficient and relevant information

about the subject of the interview and probably about the interviewee. He

therefore has to do some research work.

Interviewee is happier speaking to a reporter who knows the subject of

the interview, this will be helpful to facilitate a smooth ‘flow’ of the

interviewee.

2. The second stage is to make contact with the person concerned, asking if

he or she should be willing to be interviewed and giving three or four

possible dates. If you receive a favourable reply, write at once, thanking

him/her for his/her kindness and mentioning the agreed date once again

so he/she has a reminder.

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3. Having got so far, telephone a day or two before the appointment day to

ask if he/she is agreeable to your using a tape recorder, some people hate

to think that their every word is captured for replay, so don't be surprised

if the answer is no, if your request is refused, just accept it. It is very

important to establish an easy relationship right from the start.

4. If the interviewee does agree to be taped, you should still be prepared to

use only notebook and pencil/pen, there is possibility of the recording

tape breaking down.

5. Dress corporate in suit or any other suitable dress and neat, and also look

corporate.

6. Prepare yourself and listen carefully and watch every word attentively, jot

down all necessary words.

7. Plan all your questions carefully before you reach the place.

8. Be careful with figures, names, dates and special data.

9. Do not interrupt the interviewee's ‘flow’ by querying terminology once

the interview is underway.

10. When planning, consider what questions your reader should want asked.

Arrange them in a logical order, paying special attention to the first

question, which should be designed to put the interviewee at his ease.

You can start from general angle.

11. Don’t arrive late, do not get there too early.

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DURING THE INTERVIEW 1. Identify yourself before the interview

2. Start your interview in a relaxed mood

3. Be confident.

4. Never apologize for inexperience.

5. If you are using a tape recorder, test it out just before you start, and use a

new tape batteries.

6. Write fast and ask for the spelling of names and places.

7. Whatever answer you receive to your questions, do not be drawn into an

argument, you are there to talk about him/her and his/her views, not your

own, and you should say very few words.

8. Be careful when asking personal and sensitive questions.

9. Don’t ever make a mistake of being so eager to get an answer to the last

question.

10. Be careful with figures, names, dates, and special data.

11. Don't stay too long. No matter how well things are going, an hour and - a-

half is probably about right.

AFTER THE INTERVIEW

1. Thank him/her for granting you the interview.

2. Crosscheck your work before leaving the place.

3. If you take notes, whether in shorthand or longhand, you should be wise

to write them out in detail the very moment you get home, you will then

recall additional points you couldn't get down on paper. Writing up a

piece from pages of notes is a demanding task at the best of times, but

your work will be very much easier if you expand your jottings while the

encounter is fresh in your memory.

4. You may drop your telephone number and request for his/her telephone

number similarly for further information.

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CHAPTER THREE

WRITING THE PIECE

When you quote an interviewee directly in the article, you are representing what

the person actually meant rather than giving a verbally quoted statement. You

will use only some of the words the person used to convey the essence of what

he/she said. You will need to edit his word from the tape recorder Interspersing

quote in the narrative of the articles breaks the piece up and helps to bring the

subject to life. Your subject will very much appreciate the opportunity to check

the typed script for errors before you offer it for publication.

Use inverted pyramid if it is hard news. Feature news hardly follows this

pattern. After writing the report, do not wipe out the tape or destroy the jotter.

Keep them so that you can make reference to them in future . If the source

denies some aspects of the report, the notes and tapes become your evidence.

Use the main points when writing the news, try to make a good news report

from the interview which serves as a good source of scoops.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- References: Folarin Babatunde 1998: Hints for beginner. The Art of News reporting by Emmanuel Ufuophu-

Biri.

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CHAPTER FOUR

OTHER TYPES OF INTERVIEW

Many Journalists are trained in both radio and television techniques. They set up

and conduct interviews whether in the studio or on location, which may be

taped or transmitted live. Not all interviews are face-to-face. Sometimes, if the

subject is agreeable, an interview can be conducted over the phone, E-mail,

interviews are possible nowadays, if the subject is agreeable, either question at a

time or with the questions being emailed in advance.

The Internet makes it possible for private chat rooms to be arranged and video

for a conference .This development may get the job done and allows some

interviews to happen which would otherwise have been impossible because of

distance.

There are many types of news interviews. The basics are as follows:

* Spot news interview

* Specialized interview

* Form interview

* Panel interview

* Job interview

* Vox pop

* Personality interview

* Visa interview

Spot News Interview. This type of news interview is conducted at the place an

event is taking place. It serves as a kind of background to the main news. For

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instance, the reporter may decide to interview the eyewitnesses of an

automobile accident right on the spot. After a conference, a reporter can

approach one or more of the organizers and interview them about the manifest

and latent purpose of the conference. Spot news interview is conducted on the

spot to provide further information to what is already available. You can

interview for spot news when a man in position makes news. He may be a

university chancellor, a chairman, a pastor, an Imam, film producer, film star, a

member of the government. If he has power he is a source of the news.

Specialized Interview. This is the type of interview normally targeted at

experts or professionals in order to get their views on burning or current issues.

A reporter may interview a professor of economics on the likely implication on

the economy of the country. In this type of interview, the reporter interviews

experts in the related field. Such fields include: Finance and economy, politics,

foreign affairs, law and custom, education, matrimonial affairs, law and custom,

e.t.c.

Information from this type of interview can make very good news and even

throw more light on the issue.

Forum Interview. This type of interview is common at press conferences

where there are usually more interviewers (reporters) than interviewees. Here

there are several interviewers (reporters) who ask questions and the interviewee

responds. It may be after a press conference/briefing or an arranged interview

session.

Panel interview. In this type of interview, the interviewer may be one and the

interviewee may be one or more. The interview is usually based on a topical

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issue that is of relevance to the public. A panel interview is more common to the

broadcast media.

Job interview: This is mainly conducted by the panel to select candidates that

best meet the needs of the company /organization. The candidate must have

knowledge, skills and experience to convince the panel he/she is the right

candidate for the job. He/She needs to attend the interview with his/her original

and photocopies of his/her credentials, diary and pen ,copy of his/her resume

,copy of the application and the copy of letter inviting him/her for the interview.

His/her appearance and answers to the questions will determine his/her success

for the interview.

Vox Populi. This is mainly conducted to get the opinion of the people on an

issue or to determine the direction of their attitude. Different people are

interviewed and their opinions conform the news. It is derived from the Latin

saying, Vox Populi Dei, meaning “The voice of the people is the voice of God”.

For instance, a reporter may interview different people to know their opinion

towards a particular person, government programme, policy or action,. It helps

the government to know the people's feelings.

Personality Interview. Here a personality is interviewed and he talks about

himself / herself, his/her characters, principles, philosophy, Ideology and

achievement. The interview helps to reveal much about the interviewee.

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CHAPTER FIVE

THE CRAFT OF REVISION/ EDITING

When the beginner writer thinks a piece of work is finished, that's when the

hard part really begins. Because you will find that every sentence you write

requires more consideration than ever anticipated.

Some writers feel the need to perfect each sentence as far as possible before

going to the next. I work that way myself whenever I'm writing features .Check

your article(s), go back, revise it, your work will be subject to constant revision

right to the final draft.

* Good opening to every important article(s).

* Reception is always a danger .

* Get your materials ready before you write your articles .

* Write brightly, tightly, watch out for long descriptions.

* To get additional information to your work, use the internet; or go to the

library.

* Speak to people with specialist knowledge and researchers.

* Strong opinion reviews on religion, politics, and philosophy.

* Art of good style is very important.

* Don't attempt to copy anyone else's style.

* You can learn from the writer you admire.

* Note the enemies of good style.

* Always be with your dictionary.

* Refrain from incorrect grammar and use correct spellings of words.

* Your small slips of grammar can be corrected by the editor or publisher.

* Bad spelling is a much less serious problem than bad grammar which can

wreck a whole paragraph.

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* Punctuation is also very important. The use of colons, semi colons,

exclamation mark, quotes, full stop, dashes, brackets is also important.

* Title of your article will come up at the end of your article. A good title

that can attract readers is very essential.

CHAPTER SIX

PHOTOGRAPHS SUBMISSION

Changes in technology mean that many standard magazine industries will now

consider colour pictures. Crystal London Magazine considers colour

photographs for the whole pages.

Photographs must be glossy and not smaller half plate (16,5cm X 12cm or 6.5m

X 4.75 inches)

Label them on the back with adhesive address labels and names.

The reporter should tell the editor about available picture, each picture must be

in two or three copies as extra copies.

DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHS

Many home computer owners have already discovered how easy and how

much fun it can be to use a digital Camera and download the result into a

computer. The image can be submitted on disk, CD, flash drive and viewed on

the magazine publisher's computer. Reporter or photographer should mention

this to the editor earlier on.

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COPYRIGHT

If you see the right photograph owned by an other company, you must seek for

permission before it is used and credit given to the source of the photograph or

you pay them some amount. But it must simply be produced in high quality.

CHAPTER SEVEN

TOOLS OF THE REPORTER

A Reporter is the actual person responsible for linking the world together

through his reports. Having known the qualities of the reporter, let us look at his

tools. The reporter is like a farmer, he needs some tools to accomplish his task.

He works with the following tools.

A Pen: The reporter needs a good pen to take notes during his assignment.

Some wise reporters carry spare pens in case one fails.

A Jotter: The reporter has to take notes either while the source is speaking or

action is taking place.

A Mini Tape Recorder: Tape recorder is used to tape the assignment in case

the source denies the information, the tape serves as evidence.

Digital Camera: Reporter needs a good digital camera during the assignment.

Language of Communication: The reporter must be skilled in the language of

communication.

Cutting: Mass Media Houses have libraries, newspapers, magazine cuttings

(Chippings) are kept in an orderly manner in the library for references.

Reference Book: Such reference books include, who is who, year books etc.

Directories: They include telephone directories.

A Computer: Modern journalism requires the use of a computer. A computer

illiterate reporter will have difficulty in his job. Laptop is also useful.

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A Telephone: Reporter makes contact with his source through a phone. Handset

is also essential for the reporter.

Dictionary is also useful to all reporters.

Diary; Diary is used to keep the records of the assignments.

The Internet: The internet provides background information to the reporter.

The internet originally began in 1969 in US Defense Dept.

With all these tools, a reporter gathers and reports the news smoothly.

CHAPTER EIGHT

EIGHT SELECTED EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEWS WITH:

1. General Abubabakar Abdulsalami Former Nigerian Head of State. 2. Usman Bugaje, a politician. 3. Dr.Rilwan Lukman Former President Organization of Petroleum

Exporting Countries (OPEC). 4. Hauwa Umar Radda (Former Ex-wife of President Umar Musa

Yar’Adua ) 5. Yuguda Adamu Dilal. Former Deputy Governor Borno State. 6. Chief Afe Babalola Senior Advocates of Nigeria (SAN) 7. Babatunde Raji Fashola (SAN) Lagos State Governor 8 . General Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida (IBB) Former Nigerian President .

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CHAPTER EIGHT EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH GENERAL ABUBAKAR ABDULSALAMI

Newswatch,july 24,2000

1.Newswatch: Some of the states are also asking for police

force. Some even talk of regional army . Would you

support a state police force?

Abubakar: I think these people who are asking for regional army are taking the

issue of state too far. What do we need regional armies for? Are we going to

fight within the state ? We need army in other to protect the territorial integrity

so when you set up regional armies or state army, are you saying that they are

going to protect the territory of the state? I think we are taking this too far. I for

one do not subscribe to the regional army at all.

2. Newswatch: State Police ?

Abubakar: Of the state police I grew up to find out that there were local police

in the country in addition to the Nigerian police force . They most have been

reasons that made the government of the day to merge the police and the

Nigerian police force. Maybe states are now creating asking for state police,

maybe because they were. maybe they have a conception that the government of

the day was using the Nigeria Police Force to intimidate them. I for one, I

believe in sincerity. If the Nigerian police force is properly equipped and

retrained they could serve us well in this country.

3. Newswatch: In recent times a lot of armed groups have emerged in the

country. Groups such as OPC, APC, IPC, bakassi boys, Egbesu boys and

so on. Armed youths demanding one thing or the other or supporting one

cause or the other. How do you think this trend towards violence, trend

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towards militarization of the entire country by unauthorized group. How

do you see this kind of think can be curbed and what gave rise to them?

Abubakar: (coughs) Militarism is not only restricted to development countries.

You find out that in the advanced countries. People...they are in the advanced

countries, too... there are a lot of militarism coming up here and there but your

question as to Nigeria. I believe all this groups I call them pressure groups in

quote that are springing up they feel... The bottom line of the whole thing is that

they feel marginalized. And they got militant in order to get their message

across. I believe with what is going on now in the country’s...the Niger Delta

Commission coming into being and with government focusing its attention to

make sure there is peace and justice. I am sure one of these days some of these

will take place. Some of these groups emerged.

4. Newswatch: The Niger Delta. Did your government try to do something

to ameliorate the problems of the Niger Delta just a few months before

you left office and people criticised that action probably as too little too

late. In retrospect, what do you think about the fact that people were

suspicious of your attempt to commit N 15billion to the problem at last

minute?

Abubakar: Well it was very unfortunate that our intention was misunderstood or

judiciously misread. Here we are facing a problem. Do we leave it for the

incoming government to come and start something new? We thought we should

soften the ground and I believe we had gone a long way in softening the ground

and bringing the people in the Delta ground. We started to be implemented but

some people either by omission or commission decided to see something wrong

in the exercise. I don’t have any regret on what we did to calm the situation and

bring it under control because as the government of the day, it was our

responsibility to initiate action and I would have loved that any government

who takes over will continue the good work that our government did.

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5. Newswatch: What your government was trying to do was a stopgap. What

do you think ought to be the long-term programme for the Niger Delta?

Abubakar: Well, I think a lot has been done on the issue...going back to the

1999 constitution. There was a clause which gave 13 percent to the state where

these resources are from. I think that has gone a long way to assuage the

feelings of the people. Certainly this type of thing and other development

measures with the Niger Delta Commission coming up and when you look at

other areas where there is need to do something. Certainly this would form part

and parcel of this whole project. Certainly we are on our way to solving these

problems.

6. Newswatch: In the last few days I have read something about some of the

state governments telling the federal government that it is keeping too

much money in the federal accounts and that they should give the states

some more money so that the states can achieve meaningful development.

Do you think the federal government is keeping too much money and the

states too little?

Abubakar: Well, as much as the state governments are agitating for more

revenue. I will also caution that the states take into cognisance that there is a

federal government . The constituency of the federal government is for the

whole Nigeria. Certainly the state that are crying for money from the federal

government they are also crying to the federal government that the federal that

the federal government should allow them each to develop their states. If they

succeed in trying to collect more money from the federal government then the

federal government will be left with nothing to develop the country. But

considering whatever money the states get they will only develop their states.

But federal government has to develop the whole country. They have to provide

roads, there are the railway, they have to take care of the universities, they have

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to provide houses, so many things that the federal government has to do. So I

will say that as much as the state governments want more revenue from the

federal government....

7. Newswatch: So is the federal government able to do a lot of these things

in the states? Because if the states are right there on the ground, they

have their local government isn't it better to give the state more resources

and more responsibilities?

Abubakar: Well... Are you saying for example that the states would not do

anything in their local government because their local government has got some

thing from the states so the states should expect something from the federal

governments. I agree with you that in the states the local governments has on

the ground but don’t forget that the federal government has the responsibility

for the country.

8. Newswatch: I think this question of wanting to increase the revenue of the

states is actually because of the new wages announced by the federal

government for the federal civil servants and the state civil servants. Do

you think that there should be inform wages for all states even through

they do not all have equal strengths?

Abubakar: Actually the state governments are not of equal cadre so actually

they are the ones to decide the revenue of the states workers and certainly there

is need for the state government to discuss within their own state to see what the

minimum wages of their state should be having . Having said that I think the

federal government feels that they as the federal government... This is what they

think the minimum wage of Nigerians should be. I think they are right to say

that. But before they do that it is expected that the issue be discussed.

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9. Newswatch: Your government ran into some crisis because of this wage

problem. What exactly happened? You announced a minimum wage and

then had to revise it?

Abubakar: Unfortunately this is one of the pitfalls of governance. Here we had,

there were consultations between the federal government and the state

governments and here we thought we had enough money to do this...

Unfortunately somewhere along the line there was a hiccup. We were given

wrong information and we announced the increase of salaries and barely a

month or two after or barely a week or two after that announcement, the

government had to review its decision. We really had to look at the situation, do

a reassessment. I had to take the blame and apologize.

10. Newswatch: Well, this resulted in a crisis. What do you think was the

cause?

Abubakar: Well, ray I wouldn’t attribute it to any motive. I would just like to

say may be it was incompetence or breakdown of communications.

11. Newswatch: But there was a committee set up to look into the wage

structure and sources of revenue to government ?

Abubakar; Well, there was a wages and salary committee which was working

all along on this issue and we were surprised they apparently did not do their

work properly.

12. Newswatch: It was your government that started the recovery of funds.

We have various figures being thrown around can you tell us how much

money was recovered?

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Abubakar: Em... I don’t want to give you a wrong figure since I don’t have my

papers here. I remember very well we have recovered a total sum of about $797

million, millions of pounds sterling. I cannot give you the exact figures.

13. Newswatch: There where estimates, raw estimates that the sum of money

Abacha and his family looted reach between $8-$10 billion.

Abubakar: Well, actually the time I was there the document that was brought to

my attention certainly did not carry that amount of money. I don’t know

whether after I left they discover more information but certainly whether it was

$8 billion or so I cannot confirm.

14. Newswatch: I understand that the Abacha family tried to negotiate with

your government to pay a certain sum of money and after that they would

not longer be harassed by government.

Abubakar: I can’t remember that. We were trying to recover as much we can

from the Abacha family.

15. Newswatch: There wasn’t any agreement?

Abubakar: I don’t think so. No, we didn’t say if you bring a certain amount of

money you would stop being harassed. We were trying to recover as much as

we can.

16. Newswatch: At that time two of people outside the Abacha family, Bashir

and Ani. I remember that they were disputing the government’s

statements. What is your view on this?

Abubakar: Well the issue of Ani and Dalhatu is in court... You can quote the

officers who clam they were given a gift by General Abacha. We didn’t get any

document incriminating them to really say they are part and parcel of the

looting.

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17. Newswatch: We learn that you had negotiation with Mrs. Maryam

Abacha?

Abubakar: You ask me about negotiations. I did not have any negotiations with

anybody. But of course I spoke to her and her family on what we discovered

and the need for us to know the truth. Well, yes...initially they were a little bit of

problem; they were not accepting. But later on the. Abacha thing came out and

said they were sorry. That was the time we had a breakthrough.

18. Newswatch: Many Nigerians wonder what sort of a man Abacha really

was and why he would want to steal so much from public till. What sort of

person was he?

Abubakar: Well... Ray... That question I cannot answer. But all I can say is that

General Abacha like any other human being had his good points and weak

points.

19. Newswatch: What were his good points?

Abubakar: His good point is that he kept Nigeria together...

20. Newswatch: But he was killing Nigerians.

Abubakar: Killing Nigerians?...(laugh) Ray, how many Nigerians has he killed?

21. Newswatch: The stories are still coming out, sir.

Abubakar: Weeh....really like I was saying like any other fellow he has his weak

point and good points and like...what is the name of that writer, the one who

wrote Julius Caesar.

22. Newswatch: Shakesspeare?

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Abubakar: shakespeare. Like Shakespeare said that me evil that men do lives

after them and the good is often interred with their bones.

23. Newswatch: Perhaps one outweighs the other

Abubakar: It depends on how you look at it.

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CHAPTER NINE

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH USMAN BUGAJE

An academic turned politician and AC gubernatorial candidate in Katsina State talks about

his winning chances .By Adedeji Ademigbuji.

NATIONAL STANDARD,MARCH 31,2007

1. In 2003, you were one of the front-runners for the post of speaker of the

House of Representatives. What would have been your priority if you had

got the post?

If I were the speaker ,I would first assert the independence of the National

Assembly so that as an arm of government, it would be able to get its own

allowances and salaries without waiting for the approval of the president.

2. Are you satisfied with the performance of the house so far?

There are so many things we have not done well. For instance, if I were speaker,

I would have made sure that we don’t just sit there in Abuja and do budgeting

like we have been doing .As representatives of the people, we should go back to

our constituencies and consult the people before we do our budgeting and

allocate resources.

3. Would you say the House is doing what it should do as far as the war against

corruption is concerned?

No. there are many issues we have allowed that we should have investigated

very well. For instance, we should have made sure that the issue of close to

N400 billion that was frittered away by the Ministry of Works under the then

29

Ministry of Work, Tony Anennih. We should have called for an investigation

and trace the public money allocated to that ministry to the last naira and find

out how it was spent. Some people would have gone to jail by now.

4. Are you saying if you were made the speaker things would have been

different?

Yes. I would have stopped this hypocrisy. it’s the duty of the National

Assembly to made sure that such double standards are not allowed. I would

have also made sure that the president complies with the constitution. He does

not respect the law which he has sworn to protect.

5. You commend so much integrity. But don’t you think your relationship

with vice-president Atiku Abubakar believed to be corrupt might affect

your chances?

I don’t believe so. I am a man of integrity who believe in good governance and

the vice-president is a man that believes in the same. Like I said, the presidency

is just calling the dog a bad name .They want to truncate his ambition. That’s

why they are using propaganda.

6. What exactly do you think about the government of Governor Umar Yar’

Adua?

For close to eight years now that he’s been ruling the state, people are not able

to find drinking water in Katsina despite the billions of naira Katsina State

received as allocation. How can you say that you care for the people if you can’t

provide drinking water? People drive miles to get water. You will see young

children pushing carts full of plastic containers of water. An average family, I

understand, spends about N300 per day to buy water.

7. What National Assembly do you want to see after May 29, 2007?

30

An independent one that will operate base on the principle of separation of

power and which will not bend the constitution.

8. What will be your priorities if you get elected as governor of Katsina

State?

The first and most important priority is education. Also, I will revive the

agriculture sector to make it more profitable to farmers and the state. Another

thing will be job creation.

9. Are you comfortable with the way INEC is handing the preparation for

the elections?

Iwu is reckless and irresponsible. Certainly, everybody now knows that INEC is

a department in the presidency and not an independent body that we expect it to

be. I don’t know anybody who can tell you right from his heart that he’s

confident about INEC except Andy Uba and those who are preparing to rig the

elections.

10. So what are the chances of AC as a party .Atiku as a presidential

candidate and yourself as a gubernatorial candidate?

Our chances are very bright. I’ve no doubt in my mind that once we eliminate

rigging, which we are determined to do, we will do well at the polls. The people

of this country are tired of PDP.

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CHAPTER TEN

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH DR. RILWAN LUKMAN

BY CHARLES ODENIGBO AND DAYO AIYETAN

TELL MAGAZINE. FEBRUARY 18,2008.

Oil Has Been a Blessing and a Curse - Rilwan Lukman Former president Organization of Petroleum

Exporting Countries, (OPEC)

1. Nigeria has been producing oil 50 years now. Would you say it

has been so far so good? Has been a blessing or a curse?

Well, one would say both. Oil has provided for our country considerable

resources which have been deployed into various projects and have kept the

economy going. That is to the extend that we have been a largely economically

dependant on oil. In that sense, it has been a blessing because without the oil

resources that have been available to us, it will have been otherwise. However,

some people tend to think that the discovery of oil has brought its own

problems. One of the major one’s is that, because we found oil, we have

neglected other sectors of our national economy, particularly agriculture. It

could have been a better blessing if we had also grown those other areas. But

that is not the fault of oil. It is ours. If we had continued, as we develop the oil

resources, to develop agriculture and other industries, we would not have been

in the state in which we are now. It is a situation that one hope that, as time goes

on, we will address.

32

2. For the better part of that period. Nigeria has also been a member of

OPEC. Looking back, what benefits would you say the country has

derived from its membership of the organization?

In answering the question. One has to go back into the history of the setting up

of OPEC. It was set up by the Third World and developing countries which

depend on oil as their major source of revenue. This was to ensure that this

diminishing resource was exploited in a way to benefit them maximally. Hither

to the founding of OPEC, the oil majors were controlling the fate of the oil

industry and. Therefore, directly, the economic interests of the countries that

produced oil. By setting up OPEC, the oil-producing nations tried to assert their

ownership of the resources. But you also have to understand the original idea

behind setting up the organization: there have to be interventions when the oil

market is unstable, prices are down or too high and the consuming countries are

complaining or the international economy is in danger of being compromised

because of high prices of oil. At such times, OPEC has intervened by supplying

more oil to the market to reduce prices. By and large, one would say that

Nigeria’s membership of OPEC has been beneficial.

3. Some experts have predicted that our oil wells will dry up one day. Do

you think the country has invested the wealth got in the last 50 years to

stave off hardship in the future when there might he no oil wealth?

Nobody can tell you with absolute certainly how much longer we will be able to

produce oil. It is a moving target but oil is finite and we cannot go on producing

the same quantities as we do now forever. We will definitely reach the period of

depletion and ultimately, the time of decline. But that is still far away because

we are still discovering new wells daily. But then. With prices going up, it is

getting profitable to throw more oil into the market. Having said that. Perhaps,

the revenue derived from oil could have been better used in diversifying the

national economy as is being done now. For instance, we are now diversifying

33

the use of even oil and gas. We are using gas for power stations. Petrochemicals

and so on .We also have to look at the issue of exporting raw crude oil. That is

not economically wise. It would be more commercially viable to export finished

products. We have to learn to use our gas in a more diversified fashion .We

also need to widen the scope of utilization of the resources from oil. We cannot

consume everything we produce. We should be able to use the revenue from oil

to energize other sectors of the economy.

4. Would you say that the wealth that has accrued to the country over the

years is commensurate with the development we see? Look at Dubai. Today, it

is building the largest airport in the world ?.

The analogy is wrong. Dubai is a small country in population. Our situation is

different. Nigeria is big with a population of 140 million people. The needs, in

terms of infrastructure, education, health services and so on, are huge. If Nigeria

had the geographical space and population of Dubai. We probably would be one

of the richest countries in the world. Having said that, however, it does not

mean that a lot more could not have been done in terms of development. But for

that, we need additional investments both from internal and externally generated

sources.

5. The price of crude oil recently rose to an all time $100. That is in spite of

all the efforts to bring about stability in the price. Is there something that

is not being done? Can’t something be done to keep the price from

shooting up?

It is not shooting up really. Price of oil has been rising steadily over time. Note

that the dollar, the currency in which oil is denominated, has been declining. So

in real terms although the apparent price is rising it is not rising as fast as the

nominal price indicates. Also if you look at the high price of today and compare

it to 10 years ago, then in real terms, there has not been much movement. And if

34

you want to talk about fluctuation, that is only I the nature of things. It is not

only oil price that fluctuates. Gold price does. Copper price does. All

commodities fluctuates in price. But the thing to do is to minimize this

fluctuations .And that is what OPEC is all about.

6. Talking about OPEC, the ordinary Nigerian hardly knows anything about

it. Can you share some of your experience in the organization that can

throw light on what it does, the politics and intrigues of the international

oil industry? How has it really been?

It has been challenging I don’t know about intrigues. It is not different from

other areas of endeavour. But it has been quite interesting because of the nature

of the oil industry which is peculiar in itself. And when you are dealing with it

at that level, it gets a bit more complicated. You have countries interest to take

care of you to build consensus and you have to think of the member countries

interest without jeopardising the industry generally or undermining the

international economy. But then you succeed in sticking a balance that will

satisfy everybody.

7. What do you think of the efforts of the oil companies in Nigeria in the

development of the country ?.

The oil companies are of course engaged with our NNPC (Nigeria National

Petroleum Corporation) to produce oil in parts of the country where oil is found.

The people in the Niger Delta are entitled to the benefits that accrue from oil

exploitation. From government’s point of view, the Federation Account gives

money to states and local governments on the basis agreed profit tax. The oil

companies contribute to that extent in generating the revenue that goes to the

tiers of government.

35

But I also imagine that some of the oil companies engage in corporate social

responsibility efforts in the communities where they exploit oil and we can only

hope for more. But there is a limit to what the companies can do. I am not

saying that they are doing so much and I am not saying that they cannot do

more. Government has, over the years, set up interventionist machinery.

36

CHAPTER ELEVEN

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH HAUWA UMAR RADDA,THE EX-

WIFE OF PRESIDENT UMAR MUSA YAR’ADUA.

Published in Sunday Trust, Tuesday, September 25, 2007 and

Published in National Standard August 25, 2008

Vol. 7, NO. 4.

SHE REVEALS WHAT WENT WRONG IN HER MARRIAGE TO THE PRESIDENT.

1. You were once married to the current president, and right now taking

charge of his two male children. Can you tell us how you met ?

(Laughter) Well, our meeting was a coincidence and it occurred around 1992,

shortly after the primary elections that saw him emerge as the gubernatorial

candidate of the Social Democratic Party (SDP), then. I was in his house to

congratulate him as one of the politicians who campaigned for him even though

we had never met face to face before then. He developed interest in me and

asked whether he could see me more. I agreed and told him he was free to. That

was how we met, and as God had ordained that we would married. We got

married before the elections that he lost to the NRC then.

2. How then was your relationship after the marriage, i mean how would

you describe living with him as a husband ?

Well, as I told you, it was a marriage contracted on love. You can say love at

first sight. So there was mutual understanding and care and we had a peaceful

married life as we were both matured people : he was 42 years old then and i

was 27.

3. How would you described him as a husband and a father ?

37

You see, the President is such a simple person who takes life as easy as one can

think of. He is someone I knew with a kind heart and concern for his family.

One thing everyone who knows him will tell you is his love for children and

care for the family in general. I was telling you about his simplicity ; as a wife I

knew then by his choice of food what kind of person he was and lifestyle he

always chose. He was someone knew who did not give much attention to

materials thing or fashionable items ; he always chose simplicity in whatever he

did. It was a good experience that was destined to end

4. Which kind of food did he prefer to eat when you were together ?

If you wish to catch him red handed, prepared salad for him ; other favorites of

his are danwake and koko da kosal : those types of food he preferred and he

still prefers them, I belive

5. Nigerians will want to know how you lived with the senior wife, I mean

Hajia Turai Yar’ Adua

Well, we stayed in the same compound but different sections in Katsina when I

first married to him. And later, after I gave birth to Ibrahim, on the 24th of may

1993 I relocated to Kaduna, but we never lived in the same house since then,

she was staying at her own house and I was in mine, that was how we stayed

together, and I later gave birth to Musa (Abba) in 1994.

6. Despite the love, care, and peaceful life you enjoyed together, what led to

your separation ?

Well, we are all Muslims and we all know that marriage, like divorce, is

destiny, just like our meeting and marriage was from destiny ; we also lived and

divorced because it was destined that way. And that does not mean we fought

or divorced as a result of any serious disagreement, but rather it was destined

that the end of our relationship had come.

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7. There have been rumours that you are planning to re-unite, what is the

truth of the matter ?

(Laughter) The issue of re-union has always been there since the day we

separated, and up till now, people keep calling to find out whether it is true that

we are re-uniting, but marriage as I said earlier is destiny, no one can say what

will happen next. If it will never be, fine, and if it will never be, fine ; no one

can change what God has destined. You cannot prevent people from expressing

their minds. There were many times when people would swear before me that

we have re-united, even when I told them it is not so.

8. Could it be that he still visit you ?

All I can say is that his children always visit him while he was in Katsina and

when he became the president. But we still relate : even after the elections I was

in Aso Rock to congratulate him for winning the elections ; and during his

swearing-in, we were all there to support him.

9. You have two of the President’s sons, do you live with them or have they

returned to their father ?

They have never stayed with their father since we divorced ; they are always

with me. And, as I said, they spend some of their holidays with him and their

brothers and sisters in the Government House.

10. Should you be asked to return now, what would be your reaction ?

(Laughter) Well, this decision belongs to Allah and anything can happen. As

you know, the Prophet said in one of his habit that even if the whole world will

come together to harm an individual, they will not be able to do so unless it is

permitted by God, and so also if they will come together to help him on an

issue, they will not be able to do so unless He wills. So, if it is destined that we

still have time to spend as a married couple, we will, even if someone abhors

39

that ; and no matter how some one wants to see us reuniting, if it is destined that

we will not be re-married, it will continue to be so.

11. You are one of the few people that know the President closely, how would

you rate his ability to take this country to greatness?

Well. I have said that shortly after the elections when I thanked Nigerians for

choosing someone who can take this country to even greater heights. So far, I

‘m sure his interventions in many facets of our national lives indicate that he

can be trusted to lead this country to the Promised land.

12. Could you tell us how your children felt when their father was announced

as the president?

We were all happy. The children were also happy and that was why we even

decided to travel to Abuja to participate in arrangements for his swearing-in, we

faced a lot of problems because the children would always call to tell me that

their classmates told them that their father undergoes blood transfusion every

month and that people said he died or he was flown abroad for medical check

up. In fact I had to go to the school to tell the principal to stop them from

reading newspapers or watching television, because they were becoming afraid

that something might happen to him.

13. Are you not facing pressure from the children to re-unite with their

father ?

That has always been their wish. But I always tell them that life is lived

according to destiny and no one can influence what will happen to them. That is

why, whenever they go to visit their father in Abuja, they always refuse to stay

long, they would say that until I agree to return to their father’s house. They will

not go there to stay or even stay long during vacations.

40

CHAPTER TWELVE

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH BORNO STATE DEPUTY ALH.

YUGUDA ADAMU DIBAL

BY KEHINDE AYANWALE, THE PUBLISHER

ENTERTAINER MAGAZINE LONDON

1. Congratulations on your recent marriage. How is it like taking a new

bride?

Thank you very much... it’s been very nice, there is nothing as good as finding

someone you love deep down your heart. It has very beautiful.

2. Why was the wedding ceremony shortly after you became the Deputy

Governor?

So many noises has been made about this period that why now and why not

later. Especially among my colleagues that have just come out of heavy

campaign. A lot of resources have been put into the elections and campaigning.

What I understood from the argument was that they would have preferred a time

that would be more relaxed, so that they can participate fully in the wedding.

Many assumed that the timing was wrong but to me, it was normal because

God’s time is the best and that’s how God wants it. We thank God that it has

come and gone.

3. How and when did you meet your wife?

I met her about three years ago. All along we have been going on well, while

she is based in Abuja and I was in Lagos.

41

4. How will you describe your rise in politics, from being a businessman to

number two person of a state?

I think to me, politics in Africa and Nigeria in particular has been a two way

traffic. It’s not only when you leave your particular trade or profession and start

addressing crowd that you are being tagged a politician. You know, you know,

our way of life, the way we live, having come from extended family set up, that

is politics to me. Like me, I come from Biu, the Southern part of Borno State

where my father was a traditional ruler, then as a growing up kids in the

neighborhood, there were politics, even when I was in Lagos and coming home

every weekend, the zeal to go round to see friends and relatives to me also part

of politics.

5. For the fact that you have never held any political post in the past and

just becoming a deputy governor, what are the challenges this has put

you?

Well, before this time I have my business empire in Apapa Lagos. There I have

different people working with me either as director of operations, director of

finance, general managers and clerks sometimes the set up there is not different

from here apart from the fact that we now have siren and more complains but

the up is almost the same. In Lagos then, when I have visitors, majority of them

come for business and profit making, but now is about problem, road, school,

water and the rest of such. That is probably the difference between my former

job and the present one.

6. How has it been working with your executive Governor who is regard to

as a powerful man in Borno politics?

Well, it has been really interesting. He is not a new person in politics. He also

has been a senator of Federal Republic of Nigeria three times. People now

regard him as godfather of Borno politics. Even the former governor, Mallam

42

Kachalla was brought to the post by the grace of Allah and the influence of my

present governor. He is not a new person in the field of politics and he is such a

wonderful person to work with. It has been very interesting.

7. The last administration recently published an adversarial alleging that

this new government has no clear blueprint for Borno state. What is your

reaction to this?

That’s very funny, do they have direction. Now that they are claiming that they

had direction when they left the state without water, the health system was

brought down to zero, road were neglected, education was neglected, crimes

were at the highest which Borno has ever recorded. So what kind of direction

are they claiming? The transition committee first revealed that out of 14 billion

naira, about 7 billon could not be accounted for in the state account. They are

now talking of blueprint. Is it blueprint to corrupt or steal. It is even unfortunate

that the man who signed the adversarial comes from a place where they don’t

have water and the hospital there has been closed down for over seven months.

8. Majority of conflict most deputy governors have with their governors was

as a result of the fact that the constitution has no basic roles for the

deputy governors. How can this be resolved?

I have said it before that for a deputy governor to have conflict with their

governors is unfortunate. Of course, for a governor to pick you as a deputy, you

have to be loyal. I have to sit down and assist him and realize I am not his mate.

You cannot run a parallel government. He can only direct you, do this and you

do it. That is about loyalty. But some look at them selves as governor too. Like

in my case, there is a good communication between the office of the governor

and the deputy, he is very down to earth, like if he is out of town now, he tells

me what to do and that is exactly what I will do and give him account of it. The

basic truth is that being a deputy governor does not automatically give you a

43

chance to be the governor. There cannot be two captains piloting the ship. There

must be one master. With cordial relationship, you will even found out that you

achieve more than engaging in unnecessary conflict. Although the constitution

did not spell out the duties of the deputy governor, but with the kind that of

governor like my own. His Excellency, Governor Ali Modu Sheriff, there can

never be any problem.

9. There is the noise about issue of godfather in Nigeria politics. Do you

think it exist?

Everything is about being loyal. Godfather in politics will never die whether

you like it or not. Be it in business, politics or even press, you have your

mentor. To me I call my governor the godfather of Borno politics, there is no

doubt about that. And those of us coming behind him look up to him. So, Dr.

Ali Modu Sheriff is my own godfather in politics, there is no two ways to it. I

have leant a lot from him. I am still learning from him. As things are going there

will be a time I will be somebody’s godfather, but everything has time, for now,

I look up to him.

10. For someone who is used to city life of Lagos and coming to a quite

environment like Maiduguri, how have you been coping?

The environment is quite different, what I found in Maiduguri is not obtainable

in Lagos. The life there is cool without stress. If I leave my office now, within

three minute I will be in my house, unlike Lagos you have to spend hours on the

road before getting home. But the pressure of job has not been different from

what I was used to in Lagos, it’s the same way.

11. What do you miss about Lagos?

44

My friends, but thank God, the technology has resolved that, because I often

speak to them on phone. There is nothing really, life goes on.

12. What is your philosophy of life?

I am a normal person. Having come to politics. I want to be a man that will be

an architect of development, architect of good things. I enjoy surprises, I like

giving people surprises.

13. Is this what facilitated your going into politics?

Yes, my people of course. I come from Biu as a local government and Biu as an

emirate. It is interesting to know that they produce the manpower, the work

force of the state. The fact is that when you are always with your people,

whenever they are doing something as a private person, they always call on you

when the opportunity comes to represent them in government. First God

decides, my people decide and I follow.

14. Does your background have any influence in all these?

I have been a public person since birth. My father was a popular figure in the

emirate. Having being a traditional ruler, he was also in the army before the

Second World War. He came back and was once an alkali at a local court. There

after of course. I was born into that home and I continue where my father

stopped I attended my primary school in Biu and in Maiduguri where I attended

my college before moving to Lagos for business.

15. What area of business were you into?

I have been in shipping business for long, all my life. I have been in shipping,

clearing and forwarding transportation and consultancy.

45

16. What would you consider as your most valuable asset, in term of

personality as a leader? .

My asset to me is my ability to interact and communicate with people well. I

think my great asset is the ability to go down well with people to discuss at any

level.

17. How do you unwind?

Going round with peace of mind is how I relax. You know Borno is home of

peace, very free of crime. What is obtainable here, you cannot find it anywhere

in the country. Recently, I was told that children of prominent citizens went to

school in this state. They all attend University of Maiduguri because you can

never find anything like crime or cultism. Basically, Borno is home of

relaxation.

18. What about the fear of sharia?

Your perception of Sharia is hardened one, Sharia is good. It is about decency.

It is about good living. Believe me, everybody needs Sharia. For instance, as a

deputy governor, if my office assistance come into my drawer to steal my

money. Sharia will like to know how much the guy is being paid. If Sharia

found out that he is hungry and not been paid well, he will be freed. So, when it

comes to relaxation and you mean going to clubs that is not my own definition

of relaxation. Relaxation is to be with my family and going to see my

colleagues, friends and family.

19. On last note, what attracted your wife to you at first instance?

I will say my meeting her is an act of God. In Islam, it has been destined over

40 days before the wedding that we are going to marry. On what attracted her to

me, so many things, so many things about good woman, very intelligence she is

a wonderful woman any man can ever aspire to marry. She is a sister, a mother

46

and everything that I continue to talk about, the whole of your magazine will not

be enough to publish it.

20. How old are you?

It is interesting to know that I am the youngest deputy governor in Nigeria

today. I am just 37 years old.

47

CHAPTER THIRTEEN

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CHIEF AFE BABALOLA

Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN), (OFR) The richest Lawyer in Nigeria

BY

DAUDA Y.M. AWWAL

1. What are your contributions towards the development of

law in this country?

I was called to the bar in 1964 in England and in Nigeria. Since then I have been

in active legal practice. I established my own chambers, Emmanuel Chambers,

in 1965. Since then I have trained a minimum of 350 lawyers who are today

doing very well in their respective places. Some of them have become judges

and Attorneys-General, both of states and the Federation. Ten of my juniors

have also be conferred with the prestigious title of Senior Advocate of Nigeria. I

have very big law libraries in Ibadan, Lagos, Abuja and Port-Harcourt that are

good reference/research centers for lawyers and judicial officers.

2 .Most people believe that your commercial farm located at Ikere Road in

Ado Ekiti is the best farm in Nigeria. What is the secret behind this and

do you share this belief?

I have also written four books in different areas of law- Injunctions and

Enforcement of Orders, Law and Practice of Evidence in Nigeria, Election Law

and Practice of Evidence in Nigeria, Election Law and Practice and

Enforcement of Judgment. Each of these is a good resource book in area and I

know that most lawyer regard my books as their bibles.

The above are the little that God has used me to achieve for my profession; my

colleagues and my country and I hope that the result justifies my efforts.

It is true that I acquired a large expanse of land along Ado-ikere road, Ado

Ekiti, on which I have invested a large fortune. The farm is worth close to half a

48

billion Naira now. On it I have, in the main, over 500,000 teak tree plantation.

There are also palm trees, oranges and cocoa in some quantity. I have too, such

food crops as yam and cassava.

I have started construction work on a mini dam on the farm and use it for the

purpose of fish farming.

I know that I have put in the same industry, vision and focus that I have always

employed in my undertakings into the farming exercise. I have over 25

permanent workers and 40 casual workers mostly OND and HND holders.

But having said all this, I shall answer your question more specifically by

making a reference to the Yoruba adage that says “Eni ti ko de oko elomiran ri,

niyi so wipe ko si oko to to ti baba oun” i.e. “it is that person who has not

visited another man’s farm that says nobody else’s farm is as big as his own

father’.

How many people’s farm have I visited? So it will be difficult for me to say that

farm is the best in Nigeria. What I know is that the president’s farm is far larger.

3. What role did you play during the establishment of the Federal

Polytechnic at Ado- Ekiti in 1980 ?

The Federal Polytechnic, Ado-Ekiti used to be at Akure. The transfer to Ado-

Ekiti was the result of my effort, and that of Chief Ojo Falegan and Prof.

Afolabi Ojo.

In order to ensure an effective and smooth take-off, at the expense of my legal

practice , I personally took over the supervision of the building constructions at

the site. My personal monetary contributions were in the region of ten percent

of the total money spent and the federal government expressly commended my

efforts.

4. As a legal practitioner of both local and international status, what advice

would you give to our government to help our politics?.

49

As you are possibly aware, I am not a partisan politician. I do not belong to any

political party. I am not aspiring to any political office. Several times I have

been offered appointment into the office of the Attorney General of Federation.

I rejected all the offers. But I am a statement, and a patriot. It is in that capacity

that I will offer my advice as you have requested.

Everybody must agree now that the country is not enjoying the best of times.

Most of our public facilities, where they exist at all, are not working well. We

seem to be far behind most other African countries in health care delivery. And

this in spite of our tremendous human and material resources.

5. As an amiable Yoruba man who is loved by his people, state and Nigeria

because of your great impact in people’s lives, how many awards have

you received in recognition of your great work in Ekiti?

I have received quite a good number of awards, not only in Ekiti but in the

whole of Yoruba land and the country.

I am an Officer of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, (OFR) . I am also a Senior

Advocate of Nigeria, the highest professional honour in Law. I am a Fellow of a

good number of Institutes bodies. I am a fellow of the Nigerian Institute of

Advanced Legal Studies and fellow of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators.

More specifically, I have also been conferred with several honourary chieftaincy

titles including Fiwajoye of Ado-Ekiti (1977); Babamofin of Aramoko

Community (1988); Another Bamofin of Yorubaland (2008).Mayegun of

Modakeke (1989) and Balogun of Mobaland (1990 ) among others.

5. Do you believe that you are the best role model in many aspects of life for

Nigerians?

I do not know. Every person has got his own priorities and preferences and

these would inform who a role model should be. I know I strive to be

50

hardworking, generous, kind and sincere. Things I know is that many Nigerian

have chosen me as their role model.

6. What is your relationship with Chief Jimoh Aliu ?

He is a renowned theatre practitioner and through his prompting, I accepted to

be patron of Association of Nigerian Theatre-Art Practitioners (ANTP) since it

was founded. I am the Grand patron and Legal Adviser to his Jimoh Aliu

International Nigeria Limited. There is nothing that I cannot use to support his

legitimate aspiration. I have respect for the vast contributions he has made to

cultural development in Nigeria.

7. Many people have described you in lofty ways. How do you describe

yourself?

I describe myself as a self made man. I believe that he prays most who works

hardest. I believe in simple, honest and humble life. I believe in leadership by

example.

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CHAPTER FOURTEEN

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH LAGOS STATE GOVERNOR

BABATUNDE RAJI FASHOLA

BY ORIWU SUN PUBLISHER,MONSOOR OLOWOSAGO.

ORIWU SUN NEWSPAPER SEPTEMBER,2008

I like to dominate whatever I am doing

- Babatunde Raji Fashola

1. ORIWU SUN : What is Government’s policy on Okada as a means of

transportation ?

Gov. FASHOLA : Our policy from the rider project is first to certify some of

them and ensure that they use safety helmets and follow safety procedures for

using motorcycles. Of course, we are also doing education on riding on road

traffic management. We have to put in place new laws, amend existing road

traffic laws to create deterrent, punishment for those who drive against on-

coming traffic. But more importantly, we are looking at the long term and real

causes of the proliferation of okada. Apart from the downward turn in the

economy, we are also looking at the in-efficient public transportation. That is

the gap that okada has come to fill.

With our response through the BRT and as it grows bigger, we believe that even

the okada owner will be persuaded to leave the okada and come and own buses

and run them on the BRT system. So, it is a sustained and well informed

examination of the situation, what led to it and what the solution is. I think the

solution will be the BRT.

2. ORIWU SUN: So the situation is not to ban them from certain time to

certain time?

GOV.FASHOLA: Well, in some areas we have had to implement bans because

of the high incidence of crime but, I believe that those are short term measures.

52

Problems have short, medium and enduring solution. And we will be kidding

ourselves if we don’t look to evolving and enduring solution altogether.

3. ORIWU SUN : Ok Sir, let’s come back to the issue of security. You have

setup the state security committee. If you read one of my editorials, I still

believe that there should be state security committees in all the local

Government areas in the state because we know where the criminals are.

Like In Ikorodu we have big organization that can sponsor the kind of

things the state government is doing ; we have the neibourhood watch at

the grassroots level. Do you have any plans to include the security

measure in the Local Government ?

GOV.FASHOLA : It would be nice if the local governments embrace the idea

but, I am a democrat and I believe in the power of persuasion and the local

Government is another tier of government that is constitutionally recognized

inspite of some of the defect in the constitution regarding that matter. But

the adoption of this process by the local government will reinforce my views

that community policing is the best method by which to reduce crime.

The target of the policy is to prevent crime rather, than apprehend criminals

because by the time you are apprehending criminals, there is already a victim.

So, it is something I recommend to them and I will commend people at the

community level who have the leverage and the financing to give this kind

of support at the local government. You are right, the local government is the

most proximate government to the people and therefore has the networking and

intricate capacity to the local community leaders, the Baale’s, the Oba’s, the

chiefs etc, who are models of the cultural and moral values of our people and

who can help to really say, enough of this in the community. So, we share your

opinion. Of course in bringing the concept closer to the community, We are

using the CDA’s and the Neighbourhood watch men who are now working

with the police. Indeed, tomorrow, they would be having join stakeholders, they

53

would be having joint stakeholders meeting with the community, the

neighbourhood watch and the police and it is part of the same thinking along the

lines of community policing.

4. ORIWU SUN :Thank you sir. Recently ,permanent secretaries in the state

did some exams and I read in the punch that it is not for real, that it is a

gimmick. Is that allegation true? What is the state government’s position

on it ?

GOV.FASHOLA : Let me say immediately that we intend to take this state to

the zenith of our potentials and that zenith can only be reach if we develop the

human resource capital that exist here. And there is a lot of it in the public

service.

Therefore, we have enthroned a regime of competition of merit. Of course, we

continue to ensure the need to balance geo-political positions. But we cannot

have progress if we subjugate merit. But at the same time, we recognise the

diversity of our people and the inequality of opportunities and the need to

accelerate equal development but, this must be done without compromising

merit and therefore, in specific answer to your question ,yes, the exam is real

and we believe that the examination will assist in merit.

Having said that, you and I know also that examination is not the absolute test

of merit and therefore, somebody might write well in an exam and actually, not

be the best manager .And so ,we will still go deeper into a process of interviews

to get what we think to be the best combination of managerial capacity.

Permanent secretaries are like executive directors of a corporation and we say

here that ,we are a large public corporation ..Senior management officials on

like General managers. To sustain the continuity, you must just have the best

there. Because, those are the people who really drive the implementation of

policy and you cannot afford to toy with that because, the Directors look up to

54

them as the lower level officers look up to the directors. So, it is a big chain that

goes all the way down.

A good permanent secretary in the ministry can make the difference between

success and failure of that ministry.

5. ORIWU SUN: You have turned Lagos into a green land. Did you have

that idea before becoming governor or it was after you had become

governor that you developed the idea?

GOV.FASHOLA : Well ,Lagos state is a state that I think God has been

particularly generous with in terms of location, it’s unique location being

bounded by the lagoon and the atlantic. It is a rare gift of nature. sadly,

because of Lagos state’s hospitality, she has also become a victim of her own

generosity and, people have come into Lagos from rural communities in search

of opportunities. And that has been the problem people have tired to leave.

They haven’t transformed from village to city life. What that has done for Lagos

over the years is that it has given Lagos an image that it does not deserve-an

image of a dirty city.

Of course, in response to your question, I had clear ideas of what I think that

Lagos should look like and they were not ideas that were unique to me. Yes, I

had my ideas that we should have more parks, more green and during the

last administration, I brought up these ideas with my colleagues but you

know also, the difficulties with which the last administration operated, all

of the chaotic situations in the country, the possibility of no election, the

possibility of violence, the possibility of tenure elongation, the seizure of

local government money. That was not the best environment in which the full

potentials of a government could have come out. But, it was clearly something

which I felt was right and it was right and it was clearly something which I felt

was right and it was a major campaign promise that I made to Lagosians when I

55

said in my contract with Lagos that we will reclaim more parts, we will

beautify open spaces and generally use it as a base for cleaning Lagos.

6. ORIWU SUN : Oga, you are a young guy yet you do so much everyday.

Where do you find the strength to -?

GOV. FASHOLA : Well, as you said, I am young and I thank God because, I

think the energy is God-given. But, I try to keep in shape, get some exercise, eat

sensibly as much as em-

7. ORIWU SUN: How come you are so meticulous and you don’t forget

anything?

GOV. FASHOLA : Well, I don’t know about that but I try to stay on top of

what I am doing. I’m a hands-on person and, I like to dominate whatever I am

doing at any point in time. I give it all the passion that I can muster.

8. ORIWU SUN: I have known Lagos State Government for the last 30 years

and I noticed that your own father is not noticeable in this government

unlike in the past. Is it a deliberate act?.

GOV. FASHOLA : My father has left us as children to be independent. Indeed,

my parents have allowed all of us to be independent of them. They’ve been very

wonderful parents, steering us in the right course but, they’ve left major

decisions for us to make. I do not see what my father wants to prove. In his own

rights, he has left his own land mark in journalism. In social circle, he is a

widely known man, locally and internationally. So, apart from being happy that

his own son is Governor, I don’t see that he wants to unduly throw his weight

around. He is a very self contented and highly disciplined man and so, is my

mother.

9. ORIWU SUN: So, what can people do to annoy you?

GOV. FASHOLA: Not do their work.

56

10. ORIWU SUN: What is your best food sir?

GOV. FASHOLA: I eat anything as long as hunger goes, that is all.

ORIWU SUN: Do you still keep intimacy with Emeka Okafor?

GOV. FASHOLA : Emeka Okafor, my classmate. Yes, he phoned me

yesterday. Oh, he was a wonderful classmate, a long suffering childhood friend

who would stick by you through thick and thin. He is a true friend and we still

keep in touch regularly.

11. ORIWU SUN: Thank you your Excellency.

57

CHAPTER FIFTEEN

EXCLUSIVE JOINT INTERVIEW WITH FORMER

PRESIDENT,IBRAHIM BADAMASI BABANGIDA (IBB).

NEWSWATCH JUNE 14,2004

By Bala Bala Dan Abu and Paul Ibe HE SPEAKS ON HIS MUCH INTEREST IN THE RACE FOR PRESIDENCY IN 2007.

I AM READY FOR 2007

-BABANGIDA

Babaginda is one of Nigeria most respected retired generals. He ruled the

country (1985-1993) sacked the military administration of General Mohammad

Buhari in which he had served as chief of army staff. He took a number of

controversial economic and political decision including the structural

adjustment programmed and the annulment of the 1983 election of Abiola. The

latter led to his dramatic exist from power.

Today, he is believed to be a front-runner for the same office he left eleven

years ago. He has not openly declared his intention but his campaign machine

is ahead of every other. His Minna residence has become a political game

village with IBB Playing the role of an artful games master.

This interview, the most down to earth that Babaginda has ever granted touches

on virtually every subject Nigeria would want the man to talk about.

Hamisu Abubarkar, a photographer from the office of the chief press secretary

to the governor of Niger State took photographs. He spoke to Balah Dan Abu,

Paul Ibe and Dauda Awwal in this Exclusive Interview.

1. Newswatch : Can we Say you are a politician now ?

Babangida : I can only say that every human being is a politician.

58

2. Newswatch : You admitted recently that you are a card-carrying member

of the Peoples Democratic party (PDP).

Babangida :Yes I did I am a member of a political party and it is perhaps the

only platform anybody has that he or she can use to bring about the

realisation of certain ideals in the society.

3. Newswatch : With your membership card. what ideals do you hope to

pursue ?

Babangida : Quite frankly, there are issues, which we used to consider as

Settled issues, if you like. There are also issues that have remained un-settled.

When I talk of settled issues. I am talking of a United Nigeria. I don’t think

there is a dispute as to whether Nigeria should remain a democratic country.

There is no dispute about the republican status of the country. But there are

other issues we need to pursue so as to make this country stronger. There is the

issues of resource control, the question of ethic nationalities, the relationship

between the state and local government and every other issue that brings about

friction in the society. These issues have to be tackled. Unless we are able, like

we did with the others, and try to find a lasting solution to them, there will be

problem.

4. Newswatch: Do you think that all these issues should be encapsulated

into the national question and tackled considering the fact that you have

become converted to the idea of a national conference?

Babangida: I am a latter day convert to the issue of nation conference because

after leaving office (about 11 years ago) I have noticed that some of these

problems keep on re-occurring. I now believe that there is no way we can

resolve such issues affecting our collective destiny until we talk about them. For

example, a young journalist from Kogi state who lives here in Minna recently

59

asked me what I meant by the concept of a true Nigeria federation. And I told

him from seeking political office in this state. This is the kind of thing I

would like us as a country to address very frankly. Issues of settlers and

indigenship should not cause crises at all in our country.

5. Newswatch: Is that part of your recipe for the unity of Nigeria?

Babangida: I think there are a whole lot of things about that bring about

disaffection. And I think a national conference will help resolve them to pave

the way for unity.

6. Newswatch: It may be true that Nigerians want Nigeria to remain as one

entity. But what the nation saw recently in Plateau and Kano state puts a

question mark on this desire of Nigerians. In fact we seem to be less

united than we were in 1966.

Babangida: This is because we did not address those vital issues affecting our

mutual relationships. And if a national conference now being advocated can

address issues such as you raised, it will go along way in achieving greater unity

of the country. Because I believe that even the people who are aggrieved are

still open to dialogue with their opponents in order to find an accommodation

with the other. So, I think we really need to talk this vital step of sitting down to

talk about those critical areas of disagreement. Let me take you back a little. In

1959, a man from Sokoto was the mayor in Enugu. It didn’t matter than. Later

we had a Kanuri man who represented a constituency in Benue State. That is the

kind of vision I have for Nigeria. And it is not a vision that will be peculiar to

Nigeria. We have such a situation in the U.S. today where two brothers are state

governors, one in Texas and the other in Florida. So we should not be talking

about our place of origin but about Nigeria.

60

7. Newswatch: Is that part of your recipe for the unity of Nigeria?

Babangida: I think there are a whole lot of thing about disaffection. And I think

a national conference will help resolve them to pave the way for unity.

8. Newswatch: It may be true that Nigerians want Nigeria to remain as one

entity. But what the nation saw recently in plateau and kano state puts a

question mark on this desire of Nigerians. In fact we seem to be less

united than we were in 1966.

Babangida: This is because we did not address those vital issues affecting our

mutual relationships. And if a national conference now being advocated can

address issues such as you raised, it will go along way in achieving greater unity

of the country. Because I believe that even the people who are aggrieved are

still open to dialogue with their opponents in order to find an accommodation

with the other. So I think we really need to take this vital step of sitting down to

talk about those critical areas of disagreement. Let me take you back a little. In

1959, a man from Sokoto was the major in Enugu. It didn’t matter than. Later

we had a Kanuri man who represented a constituency in Benue State. That is the

kind of vision I have for Nigeria. And it is not a vision that will be peculiar to

Nigeria. We have such a situation in the U.S. today where two brothers are state

governors, one in Texas and the other in Florida. So we should not be talking

about our place of origin but about Nigeria.

9. Newswatch: What is your reaction to the declaration of state of

emergency in Plateau State ?

Babangida: I believe the president acted within the law and I support his

action.

61

10. Newswatch: Some people think that Kano should have been included too:

that by limiting it to Plateau State alone, president Obasanjo had acted in

favour of Muslims.

Babangida: I don’t share that position because what happened in Plateau had

un-intended consequences and those consequences are what we saw in Kano.

May be they saw people moving dead bodies and they got infuriated. So, it is

the after effect of that sort of action that led to a build-up of the tension that

resulted in the Kano crisis.

11. Newswatch: What is the best way to tackle this sort of problem once and

for all?

Babangida: I think the right thing is for a complete change of attitude on the

part of our people. In the case of Plateau State, the people had not just come to

settle there. We are talking about people who have been there for about 125

years. And there was no conflict between them and the people there until quite

recently. So something must have gone wrong somewhere which has to be

examined. There should be an end to this kind of unfortunate development.

Because most of the people being referred to as settlers have been there for very

long. If you ask some of them their roots. they can’t trace their people anymore.

12. Newswatch: Now that you are talking about the convocation of national

conference, have you given any serious thought to the formula for such a

conference?

Babangida: Yes, it should be done under the ambits of the government. Those

convening a national conference need to collaborate with the government

because the government is a democratically elected government. The

government is also in a position to set the parameters. I don’t have any problem

with us having a national conference provided there are “no-go-areas. “For

example. Such a conference should not talk about breaking up the country. That

62

should be part of the “no-go area.” This conference should not talk about certain

settled issues. Now, if we agree on that, then the conference could go on. And

then, after the exercise we should be able to come out with a document, which

will serve as a blueprint on how we are going to live together. And fortunately,

we have a lawmaking body now. The aspects of the blueprint requiring

legislation will then be placed before the National Assembly for legislation.

13. Newswatch: If that is going to be the condition, then we may end up not

having the national conference because those agitating for it think there

should not be “no-go areas” and should not be supervised by the

government.

Babangida: No, No nobody will supervise them. Those calling for it can set the

agenda. They are eminent Nigerians. They should not be able to say yes, this is

what we want. But government should play a role. We know this is a

democratic environment. This is why the conference is being allowed. But the

government should be allowed to say you cannot go there and talk about

breaking the country or about changing the type of government that Nigeria and

Nigerians have settled for.

14. Newswatch: In August 1990, Alao Aka-Bashorun led a move for a

national conference. But your administration stopped him. Why did you

do that?

Babangida: At that time, if you remember, in the entire continent of Africa,

whichever country had a national conference, had one problem or the other. It

either ended up breaking up the country or there was crisis. Many of them, up

till now, have not been able to resolve the crisis that arose from those

conferences. So, if we allowed it, would not have been good students.

63

15. Newswach: The postponement has not been helpful either.

Babangida: What I consider crucial really, is the country’s development. You

see there has been inherent fear in us. You will recall that when Alao-Aka-

Bashorun was talking about a national conference, the country was divided on

the modalities for holding the conference. But we had not done enough to

educate the people on what really, the conference was all about.

16. Newswatch: Don’t you think that the resolution of these issues creating

conflicts lies in the archives, that is, reports of many enquiries and probe

panels that have not been published or implemented because the

government lacked the political will to do so?

Babangida: During the Abacha time, the committee on the review of the

constitution came here and quite frankly I told them that they needed nobody to

tell them what to do. That there were 17 eminent Nigerians who, For one year,

went round the entire length and breadth of this country and came up with a

great document. That document addressed virtually every issues about

governance, about devolution of powers, about the place of women in society,

about the type of government that the country needed. We agreed with some of

the decisions, others, we did not accept. For example, we did not agree with

their decision that Nigeria should be called a Social Democratic Republic. We

removed “Socialist” and replaced it with “Federal” and we had Federal

Republic of Nigeria. They also talked about party system. We accepted that

because the essence of politics is to give the people the opportunity to choose.

Even if you do not belong to a political party, you still have the right to vote. So

in fairness to government, there is the fear of the unlikely consequences of

throwing the door open for a national conference, you can call it fear of the

unknown, if you like.

64

17. Newswatch: Retired generals seems to have found comfortable

accommodation in politics. They no longer retired to the farms.

Babangida: Some still do.

18. Newswatch: Do you think their involvement in polices has been

beneficial to the country ?.

Babangida : My answer is yes. First, I don’t see what stops them from going

into politics. If they were not Nigerians, then you can say they have a problem.

But they are Nigerians. The fact that they were once in the military does not

take away from them their rights and privileges. It does not also mean that other

Nigerians are entitled to more rights and privileges than they do. So those of us

who were in this profession which most people don’t like, in fact, which most

people dread, politics is a welcome opportunity to reintegrate into the society.

So, I don’t see anything wrong with retired military officers going into politics.

19. Newswatch: Yes, but don’t they feel like fish out of water, politics makes

it mandatory for political leaders to consult all interest groups as part of

the process of decision-making while a general will simply wave his

swagger stick and take his decision.

Babangida: Politics is not the exclusive preserve of civilians. Retried generals,

by the nature of their training are capable of adapting to situations. So they

should not feel like fish our of water if they are in politics.

20. Newswatch: Apart form PDP (People Democratic Party) which other

party do you belong to?

Babangida: My friends belong to the other parties. But they still remain my

friends. And I don’t grudge any of them who has sympathy for the other parties.

65

21. Newswatch: We are aware that you have accepted full responsibility for

the annulment of the June 12, 1993 elections, which MKO Abiola won.

But you have not told Nigeria why had to annul that election?

Babangida: We conducted an election which you (the press) adjudged as the

best election ever conducted in this country. Then, of course, the other aspect of

it is that we annulled it which we have accepted responsibility for. But we had a

situation whereby we had to take a decision. But we had to weigh the

consequences of the decision that we had to weigh the consequences of the

decision that we had to take. And we opted for the decision that we eventually

took on the election.

22. Newswatch: What was the real issue that informed that decision to

annual the election?

Babangida: The issue at stake at the time had to do more with national security

and public order.

23. Newswatch: This thing happened many years ago. Some of the issues

ought to have been declassified now and explained to the public?.

Babangida: They were classified information and to the best of my knowledge

the facts have not yet been declassified. As time goes on, the fact will be know

but it is good to allow tempers to cool down enough before this should happen

24. Newswatch: Before the final annulment there were two other annulments.

That of the 23 presidential aspirants and later the two aspirants who had

emerged as flag bearers of the SDP and the NRC .The final annulment-

was it because the electoral body then did not do its work of screening the

candidates well and allowed the wrong candidates to contest?.

66

Babaginda: I am glad you mentioned the 23 aspirants. They emerged from an

exercise that was meant to produced the flag bearers. Anybody who lived in this

country at that time knew that the system threw up some very serious

challenges. We knew that there had been a clamour for a change of leadership

of this country. We knew that there were passionate feelings against the fact that

one part of the country had continued to dominate the political authority of this

country, we also knew that those two political parties were going to throw up

two northern candidates. We also knew the problem that attended the voting that

produced the candidates. Already, the country had been charged. Quite frankly

eminent Nigerians were not happy and we would be silly not to listen to the

feelings of people. That system would have produced Shinkafi for NRC and

Yar’Adua for SDP. Shinkafi would have been beaten Adamu Ciroma if the

process was concluded. There were newspaper editorials criticising the

procedure that produced those candidates and when we banned them the

editorials also praised us for taking that bold decision. Now, we tried another

way out. Again there were subterranean influences Abiola had Musilm/Muslem

ticket while Tofa had a Muslim/Christian ticket. We took this to the Armed

forced Ruling Council. But if we tried to stop them before the election people

would think that we did not want to quit the stage. And quite honestly we

allowed the whole process to run its course. They repeated the same thing that

the 23 aspirants did. But we had to clampdown on them at the time we did.

Because we felt that the leadership of the country should rotate. This was the

beginning of power shift. The idea actually came from us. We knew there was

an obvious problem and we annulled the election. All that is now history.

But anyone following political developments in Nigeria would have come to

one conclusion. How did we come about this idea of power shift. The plan we

had was that, if the two parties had remained, we would have gotten one to

67

nominate an Ibo presidential candidate and the other, a Yoruba candidate. And

we were almost convincing the entire northern sates to vote either way.

25. Newswatch: Was the Muslim/ Muslim ticket the real threat? Because

even Christian were campaigning for Abiola / king from the pulpit?

Babangida: If you observe the problem of this country is not always from the

ordinary people. They are never the problem Today you can go to Banga near

our border with Cameroun- you will find Kanuri, you will find Yoruba, Efik,

every tribe you name it. They live together in peace They don’t just think about

their differences. The problem is rather from the elite class, the people who

think they know better how the country should be run. It is the elite who will tell

you how ministers should be appointed to reflect geographical considerations, If

you succeed in balancing, then the next question is religion. If you succeed in

balancing in terms of the religion factor, then the next question is how do you

relate to those around you. The people who start a crisis even a war in most

countries are only a few manipulators. These few people would carry on as if

the whole world is coming to an end. And we are good in this country in

creating such situation of tension.

26. Newswatch: In other words the fundamental flaw with the June 12 ,1993

election was that the likely winner was carrying a Muslim/ Muslim ticket?

Babangida: No, I gave that as an example, But certainly, it was capable of

creating other complex problems that we did not envisage. Some people

complained against the Muslim/Muslim ticket?.

27. Newswatch: Who are the people?

Babangida: when I say people I mean me and you are the people’s

representatives. We were the people complain the elite.

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28. Newswatch: Is it the Military Elite ?

Babangida: Not only them I mean even the civil populace. But they had

leaders, the arrowhead if you like. The civil populace don’t complain directly.

Their leaders do so on their behalf. They may be about one million out of one

hundred million Nigerians.

29. Newswatch: Can you narrow this down a bit? May be the people who

complained against the Muslim ticket were the Christian populace.

Babangida: No, No, No, it was not only from Christians. But I want you to

know one thing. Ask every leader in this country-the president, a government or

even a local government chairman they will tell you that every action they take

is given one interpretation or the other. So, I was sensitive to this because I

knew some people will capitalise on it to inflame the situation in the country.

30. Newswatch: Was that why you shopped for Obansanjo for the

presidency ?

Babangida: At that time, the situation the country found itself required

somebody like him. Let me say this ( and it is coming from the bottom of my

heart) nobody could have done it except him.

31. Newswatch: What is so special about him? What were the considerations

then?

Babangiada: First no matter who you are, you cannot talk to Obansanjo about

breaking up this country or any part of it. We know there people who urge him

in the past to lead secession but he refused. He is very passionate about one

Nigeria and it’s unity. Secondly, He is capable of taking a decision when it

matter most, Thirdly we needed somebody who had the experience of

governance. And fourthly, he is one man who cannot be intimidated by either

the press or other interest groups.

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32. Newswatch: But is that a good qualification?

Babangida: Oh yes. If you get intimidated, you abandon your course. But he is

not one to do that.

33. Newswatch: Yes when you proposed him, many people agreed, But the

same people have come to you to complain that the man .

Babaginda :I told them we made the right decision

34. Newswatch: And they left here convinced?

Babaginda : Well, I told them it was my own conviction. I’m convinced that it

was the right decision we took- some of them agreed with me.

35. Newswatch: Why have you been silent on Obansanjo’s leadership? We

haven’t heard you criticize his government?

Babaginda: I consider myself one of the most privileged citizens in this

country. I was military president. Having been in that position to know what it

is to be in that office. But that is not to say that I have made inputs. When there

is need to call his attention to some issues, we seek an appointment to see him

and then we talk to him. You see in the military, you don’t rebuke even your

own junior officer in the presence of his subordinates. You call him to your

office and wash him down, then he goes back. How much more an officer who

is your senior. We have been talking to the president but we don’t have to go

public about it.

36. Newswatch: Is it a military tradition?

Babaginda: we have it in the military but more importantly, people in our kind

of position should not go public to say certain things about the country’s leader.

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37. Newswatch: Can I take you back a little?

Babaginda: No, you can’t because I know where you are going.

News watch: I just want to remind you that once upon a time, he was in that

office, Once upon a time, you were in that office and he made the criticism of

your policies a kind of sacred religion-i.e. SAP Without human face, and there

must be an alternative to SAP. Was he not aware of his tradition that your

cannot castigate your junior publicly? Or had he no access to you then?

Bagangida: He had access to me, And we kept talking to each other on the

issues he was raising. I used to drive myself alone to his farm. But I know he

was reacting to pressure being applied on him by some pressure groups then.

38. Newswatch: Is there any resemblance between the economic policies of

your administration and what we have today under president Obasanjo ?.

Bagangida: It is tending towards self- reliance, which is what we did then.

What we need for the situation to improve is consistency. Nobody has perfect

solution to a problem. But you can come with a suggestion, which you can

review from time to time, take what is workable and drop that which is not.

39. Newswatch: If you have the opportunity of providing leadership for this

country again, what kind of change would like to see regarding the way

things are being done?

Bagangida: To be very honest with you, I believe we have done so far ( and I

say we,

I meant the federal government) is enough platform for this country to be

strong. Everything that needs to be done has been done and everything that

needs to be said has been said. The government has an objective programmers

are meant to achieve. We should stick to that objective. The effect of it may not

be easy for the way you did.

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40. Newswatch: Looking back at SAP Specifying now are there aspects of it

you would have done differently if you have the opportunity to do it over

again?.

Bagangida: Okay, look at the platform under which we did those things- self

reliance- you can’t change that. We were talking about giving the farmer the

opportunity to benefit from his efforts by reaching the market with his produce;

we were also talking about monetary or fiscal policies: we were talking about

the exchange rate, that is allowing it to float- those were the platforms. They

are still relevant today. We can only keep moderating or fine- tuning them if

there are effects that were unintended then we can look at them and try to make

them as less painful as possible to the people.

41. Newswatch: What is your reaction to a recent statement credited to

president Obansanjo that the oil/windfall money was mismanaged by

your administration?.

Babangida: Well, I read so many version of that report. First, the president

wasn’t the one who said so. It was somebody else. And I read what was

reported. And my feeling is that he didn’t say anything to warrant a reaction.

42. Newswatch :Your administration has been accused has been accused-

rightly or wrongly- to have institutionalized corrupt.

Babangida: I have not been able, to be honest with you to understand what

“institutionalize” mean. Nobody has given me the definition, then I will try to

relate it to my administration. But what I can tell you is that I can account for

everything we did while in office. Such statement have not bothered me because

we did all that we did with a great sense of patriotisms. We can account for our

action or in action while in office. And I also want to throw a challenge to all

Nigerians. This is something that I have never done before. I want any Nigerian

residence in or outside of Nigeria to come and look at me in the face and tell

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me that he bribed me or he bribed any of the ministers. I still throw that

challenge and honestly, I am not bluffing. I mean what I say, maybe in the next

ten years somebody will come out to say so. But doesn’t it ever occur to

anybody that we were in office for eight years, we left office about 11 years ago

and are you honestly telling me that with people’s contact in and outside

country, they are unable to come out to say that Babangida’s minister didn’t

even take time some three months, six months, or one year. Honestly, I hate to

talk about this but at your level, I think I can say so. People who do not like my

face are free to say anything about me or my administration but

institutionalization of corruption I take exception to that. You can ask anybody

who was a governor in my time, or who was a minister in my time. I am not

saying we were downright perfect- there may be one or two cases of wrong

doing but were not as corrupt after all as we are portrayed to be.

43. Newswatch: If your administration was that clean, why did you refuse to

go before Justice Oputa Panel to explain some of the things you did,

including your human rights records which was adjudged to be

questionable ?.

Babangida: Well, I don’t know what you mean about questionable human

rights records but again, my human rights records, if you compare with other

military governments, was the best. It was under me that media flourished, for

example. It was my administration that told the media to write whatever they

wanted to write.

44. Newswatch: But you also closed down some media houses.

Babangida: Forget about closing Newswatch and Concord. That is not the main

issue. The main issues is here was the man who said, go and write what you

want. This was the man who abrogated the law that stiffed the press. This was

the man who allowed private newspapers, private televisions stations, radio

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stations to flourish in this country. Haba! I should be given credit for doing that

much.

45. Newswatch: Let’s know your position now. When are you formally

declaring your intention to vie for the presidency in 200 ?.

Babangida: Declaration is a process. We haven’t reached there yet.

46. Newswatch: How close are you to it now?

Babangida: We are watching and appraising the situation. When we have done

enough of that, we shall come to a conclusion on whether mood is right. That

will determine what we shall do and when to do it.

47. Newswatch: When you have done enough of that, and you come to the

conclusion that the mood is right, will you run for the presidency?

Babangida: When the mood is right, I will be a very, very active participant in

pushing certain ideals that I consider good for this country. And I have always

said that I can do that not necessarily by being the president but participating, by

influencing, by being in the forefront of pushing ideas that are dear to this

nation. That is my interpretation of politics. I really do not want to jump into

politics. Because if I did that, the ultimate conclusion will be that I want to be

president of the country by all means.

48. Newswatch: I’m sure you remember that people use to call you

Maradona. Are you such a great dribbler?

Babangida: Bu I haven’t dribbled you. Let me explain why I answer some of

these questions the way I do. I do not want to be seen as imposing myself. If

you remember, in 1999,we talked of a system throwing up leaders. So, I believe

in the system throwing up its own leaders. We can even have every state

producing an aspirant. This can later be narrowed down with each geo-political

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zone producing an aspirant and later the final choice will made. I want to wait

for that process. That is why I said I will rather wait to see the system throw up

leaders. May be this will help the political parties to do the right thing. They

don’t have to plan how to rig elections, or allocate numbers. To be able to

change the system, you must belong to the system.

49. Newswatch: Your disagreement with General Buhari- has it been settled?

Babangida: As far as I know, there is no disagreement the way I know and

understand the meaning of disagreement. We still greet each other, we still

shake hands, we still talk about issues affecting this country.

50. Newswatch: Do you visit each other?

Babangida: We don’t visit each other but we respect each other.

51. Newswatch: What kind of friends are you then when you don’t exchange

visits ?.

Babangida: How many people can one visit? Let me say this. The disagreement

is because we staged a coup against him. That is not unusual. We stage coups

against one another. He staged a coup against Shagari. But he doesn’t want to

accept that fact of life. But we removed Shagari, a democratically elected

government. What we did was even illegal. My case against him is military

versus military.

52. Newswatch: That is to say that your coup against him was legitimate.

Babangida: It was part of the process.

Newswatch: You have been out of office for 11 years now, I am sure the

excitement of retirement is no longer there and you must be coping with

boredom.

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Babangida: No, I keep myself busy. But remember when I was in service, I

was more or less separated form my roots in Minna. And I decided to come

back to my roots. That is why I decided not to settle down in Kaduna or Lagos

or Abuja. I decided to settle down in Minna. So, initially, I tried re-integrate into

the community. I left many years ago. I have more time now than I had when I

was in service. So, naturally one may feel bored but I make up for that by doing

what a man of my age should do. That is attending wedding of people close to

me, pay condolence visits and I do travel. I enjoy traveling.

53. Newswatch: You seem to shy away from international assignments – like

getting involved in mediatory efforts as some former leaders do.

Babangida: Probably to keep themselves busy and out of boredom. I am never

bored. And this is a fact. There is never a dull moment for me.

Babangida: Declaration is a process. We haven’t reached there yet.

54. Newswatch: How close are you to it now?

Babangida: we are watching and appraising the situation. When we have

dine enough of that, we shall come to the conclusion on whether the

mood is right.

55. Newswatch: When you have done enough of that and you come to the

conclusion that mood is right, will you run for the presidency?

Babaginda: When the mood is right I will be a very, a very active participant in

pushing certain ideals that I consider good for the country.

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CHAPTER SEVENTEEN JOURNALIST'S CREED

The journalist creed was written by the first dean of the missouri School of journalism, Walter Williams. One century later, his declaration remains one of the clearest statements of the principles, value and standards of journalists throughout the world. The plaque bearing the creed is located in the main stairway to the second floor of Neff Hall.

I believe in the profession of journalism.

I believe that the public journal is a public trust; that all connected with it are, to the full measure of their responsibility, trustees for the public; that acceptance of a lesser service than the public service is betrayal of this trust.

I believe that clear thinking and clear statement, accuracy and fairness are fundamental to good journalism.

I believe that a journalist should write only what he holds in his heart to be true.

I believe that suppression of the news, for any consideration other than the welfare of society is indefensible.

I believe that no one should write as a journalist what he would not say as a gentleman; that bribery by one's own pocketbook is as much to be avoided as bribery by the pocketbook of another; that individual responsibility may not be escaped by pleading another's instructions or another's dividends. [ I believe that advertising, news and editorial columns should alike serve the best interests of readers; that a single standard of helpful truth and cleanness should prevail for all; that the supreme test of good foundation is the measure of its public service.

I believe that the foundation which succeeds best and best deserves success fears God and honors man, is stoutly independent, unmoved by pride of opinion or agreed of power, constructive, tolerant but never careless, self-controlled, patient always respectful of its readers but always unafraid is quickly indignant at injustice, is unswayed by the appeal of privilege or the clamor of the mob, seeks to give every man a change and, as far as law and honest wage and recognition of human brotherhood can make it so, an equal chance, is profoundly patriotic while sincerely promoting international good will and cementing world comradeship, is a journalist of humanity of and for today's world. “ends’’ *Remember that facts are lifeblood of journalism.

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ABOUT THE AUTHOR Dauda Awwal hails from Ilorin Kwara State Nigeria, he's very intelligent, focus and dynamic, multi-talented and can co-exist with people of different beliefs and purposes to accomplish both human and ethnic languages.

The writer of this Book is a graduate of London School of Journalism where he studied Investigative Journalism and Film Production. He is a contributing Editor for Crystal Magazine London, reporter Oriwu Sun Community Newspaper Ikorodu Lagos Nigeria, Guest writer PM Newspaper, Government Accredited International Journalist attached to National Assembly Complex Garki, Abuja Nigeria. He is the Managing Director of Awwal Production International. The writer is a researcher, philosopher, reporter, poet, writer, producer and qualified media practitioner. He's very a very good communicator in different languages. Awwal has produced five different musical albums, a documentary film on Nigeria history past government leaders since 1960 - 2001. He's the producer of a Cinema Movie Titled ''NEMESIS'', he has also featured in many Yoruba movies among them “GBAJUMO” produced by Ronke Oshodi, “OLUOMOREMILEKUN” produced by Saidi Balogun. Awwal is a member of Nigeria Union of Journalists, a member of National Union of Journalists (Great Britain), He's a member of News Producers Alliance (NPA) UK. Awwal has traveled to many different Asian, African and European countries. Awwal has written many books including about thirty-nine articles on different issues, many Journals and lectures.

ABOUT THE BOOK This book explains all aspects of techniques how to conduct successful interviews face-to-face interview, on line interview, it also explains how to write appropriate headline, captions and standfirst, laying out finished pages and using pictures, text and associated page furniture to maximum effect. The dangers of libel and how to avoid other legal pitfalls. The book x-rays most of what needs to be known about how to conduct a successful interview, it is useful if you are a journalist, researcher, feature writer, journalism and mass communication student and practitioner of journalism and communication in any monotechnic, polytechnic, higher institute of journalism and universities. This book consists of selected exclusive interviews with General Ibrahim Babangida, (Former Nigerian President), Gen.Abdulsalami Abubakar (Former Nigerian Head of state), Gov, Babatunde Raji Fashola Lagos state Governor, Chief Afe Babalola (SAN) and the richest lawyer in Nigeria and other dignitaries.