http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/behindtheveil Interview with Rosita Doris Taylor June 10, 1993 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South Charlotte (N.C.) Interviewer: Karen Ferguson ID: btvnc02059 Interview Number: 286 SUGGESTED CITATION Interview with Rosita Doris Taylor (btvnc02059), interviewed by Karen Ferguson, Charlotte (N.C.), June 10, 1993, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University (1993-1995) COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture at the David M. Rubenstein Rare Book & Manuscript Library The materials in this collection are made available for use in research, teaching and private study. Texts and recordings from this collection may not be used for any commercial purpose without prior permission. When use is made of these texts and recordings, it is the responsibility of the user to obtain additional permissions as necessary and to observe the stated access policy, the laws of copyright and the educational fair use guidelines.
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June 10, 1993 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South Charlotte (N.C.) Interviewer: Karen Ferguson ID: btvnc02059 Interview Number: 286
SUGGESTED CITATION
Interview with Rosita Doris Taylor (btvnc02059), interviewed by Karen Ferguson, Charlotte (N.C.), June 10, 1993, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University (1993-1995)
COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture
at the David M. Rubenstein Rare Book & Manuscript Library
The materials in this collection are made available for use in research, teaching and private study. Texts and recordings from this collection may not be used for any commercial purpose without prior permission. When use is made of these texts and recordings, it is the responsibility of the user to obtain additional permissions as necessary and to observe the stated access policy, the laws of copyright and the educational fair use guidelines.
Interview with Rosita Taylor Charlotte, NC June 10, 1993 Interviewed by Karen Ferguson Unedited Transcript by Cathy Mann
Rosita Taylor
2
Ferguson: Maybe you could tell me where you were born and where
you grew up first of all.
Taylor: Okay, I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina and I
grew up in Charlotte.
Ferguson: What neighborhood did you live in?
Taylor: I lived in the First Ward neighborhood my entire
childhood until the closure, even though I was away in
college but into the closure which was 1964 in First
Ward as we know it.
Ferguson: What do you mean by the closure?
Taylor: The urban renewal came into reconstruction. They
brought in the project which is now Earl Village.
Ferguson: Who did you grow up with?
Taylor: Well, I grew up with my mother. We had a great aunt,
my great grandmother and my dad and my sisters. I had
two sisters.
Rosita Taylor
3
Ferguson: Was there anyone outside of your family who lived with
you at any time when you were growing up?
Taylor: From time to time we had cousins, first cousins, on my
mother's side that came to live with us, you know,
periodically. We also had, because my mother is a
social worker, retired, we did have some people, we
had a young lady who came to stay with us at one time
because there was a need for her to have a place to
stay. She was the only person that I can remember at
this time who was not a member of the family who lived
with us.
Ferguson: What do you remember about your grandparents? You
said that you lived with your great grandmother?
Taylor: Yes.
Ferguson: What do you remember about her?
Taylor: Well, I remember that she was first of all a very
compassionate person, very caring, very firm. A
person who was spiritual because she always taught us
first to believe in God and that would be what
Rosita Taylor
4
everything that we were to be evolved from would be a
spiritual framework. She was a very honest and open
person, you know, very straightforward. You didn't
have to guess what she meant or said. She was one who
always sat with you, with me I know, and conversed you
know about some of the things, her experience in the
past. And also she taught you how to respect other
people and how she wanted you to behave as a teenager
and as a child and really, you know. Also, she also
taught me how to cook. Eventually, I think, I can't
remember at the age she was but she became blind and
we have sort of determined now that it came about as a
result of glaucoma. And so what I would do is she
would tell me what to prepare for dinner. So she
taught me how to do a little cooking. Very well liked
person in the community also.
Ferguson: So what did she tell you about her childhood? What
kind of stories would she tell you?
Taylor: She told me stories about first of all, you know, how
her parents were in rearing her, her mother and her
dad and again the same kinds of principals that she
tried to impart with me that they upheld those with
Rosita Taylor
5
her when she was growing up. And I remember one thing
that sort of stuck in my mind, I didn't really fully
understand it, I don't know what age I was, it had to
be a very early age because I remember her telling me
something about slavery and she said that she had gone
to see Thomas Jefferson and she was in awe of the man
of his statue to be so open in saying that he wanted
to keep the slaves in their places, he didn't want
blacks to move any place, you know. And that sort of
stuck with her and sort of, it stayed with me for
awhile because I couldn't understand but now I do.
But in spite of that, she never taught us to hate
anybody, you know. She taught us to remember that the
person who was in control of our lives was God and we
determine our destination through Him, you know.
Also, some of the things that they did as her mother
was a slave and I remember her telling me about her
mother being a slave and how they were, people sold,
and how they had to go and work in fields and things
like that. And I don't recall any of the, at this
moment, some of the things they did in terms of how
they entertained themselves. I know she liked to sing
so I assume that that was one of the things they did,
you know, at family gatherings.
Rosita Taylor
6
Ferguson: Now was this your father's?
Taylor: That was my mother's grandmother.
Ferguson: And where did she grow up?
Taylor: She grew up in, what was the name of this little town,
in Catawba County which is not too far from here. I'm
trying to think of the name of the city. I know it
but it's not surfacing at the moment.
Ferguson: That's alright. You said that she was well liked in
the community. What role did she play in the
community?
Taylor: Well, seemingly she was a counselor I mean as we use
our terminology now because people came to her for
guidance, you know, or sort of bringing their problems
and their joys and sharing with her and getting her
opinion you know about things. Because I think they
saw the strength in her, they saw the forthrightness
of just her as a person and how strong she was so I
think that's what I mean.
Rosita Taylor
7
Ferguson: Did you know any of your other grandparents or know of
them?
Taylor: Yes, I knew my mother's mother, my mother's father, my
dad's mother and his father.
Ferguson: Do you remember anything in particular about them?
Did they have...?
Taylor: Yes my mother's mother was a person who, she lived in
a different city, she lived in Atlantic City and
Philadelphia so we always had a schedule and she came
to visit us almost every summer when she lived in
Philadelphia and then we went to Atlantic City sort of
alternating summers. So we saw her quite frequently.
My mother's father, we didn't see him until later on.
We often talked about him in the family, his sisters
did, but I think I only saw him once until 1971. But
we always talked about him as if he was with us. My
dad's mother and father, we saw them every week
because they were here in Charlotte. My mother's
mother, again, was a very strong person, a person who
was, she was a person who always taught you to do your
Rosita Taylor
8
best and be the best and look the best, you know, that
kind of person. Again, very forthright in, you know,
her conversation with you or whatever she had to share
with you. She, I'm trying to think about what, I
don't remember right now, she did tell me about her
marriage to my grandfather, you know. She talked a
little bit about that. That was when I was a little
older. And my grandfather, after I became to know
him, he was very dedicated, a very educated person. I
can't remember now how far he went to school. I don't
think he went to college but the information, he was a
person who did a lot of research on his own so he knew
a lot about history in the sense of what had happened
to us as a people, what happened to his family, what
happened in the country, you know. He knew that and
so he shared that with us. A very liked person in his
community because he was a very strong person also in
the place where he lived. My dad's mother was a very
warm, gentle, kind person. She would always come and
stay with us, you know, like she'd come on weekends
and she would baby sit a lot with us, you know. My
dad's father, he was another strong, kind guy, you
know. I don't know too much about them sharing a lot
of their past with me, you know, because once I came
Rosita Taylor
9
to understand I was away, you know. But we were
always around them.
Ferguson: Your mother said that her father became a Muslim.
Taylor: Yes.
Ferguson: Was he a Muslim when you met him?
Taylor: Right, un-huh.
Ferguson: Do you remember anything about that? Do you when he
converted?
Taylor: Let's see if I remember. I don't remember the year
but it had to be quite some years. He was also, prior
to that he was in the organization with Garvey and he
was Catholic prior to all of this.
Ferguson: Was there any conflict in the family about him being a
Muslim?
Taylor: Yes, this was a conflict because one consequence, I
don't whether you are familiar with the Muslims and
Rosita Taylor
10
their doctrines, you are not supposed to associate
with anybody other than a Muslim. So we never could
understand that because, you know, we just couldn't
understand how somebody could just turn away from
someone who was related to them, irrespective of who
made that decree. And so that was sort of a thing
that we had to come to grips with. I guess the thing
that I personally couldn't accept at the time when my
grandfather came back to stay with us, you know, he
became ill at the time and my mom was also ill. I
just felt to me that it was unfair for us to have had
to take the burden on with him. A lot of it was going
to have to be on me because I was the oldest person
and I came back home to take care of my mom. But I
guess those were the only conflicts but I had to work
that out with myself and look at the reasons and
forget about, you know, what he had done and didn't
do. Not so easy sometimes.
Ferguson: Do you remember their being Muslims in the south
before the 1960's, black Muslims?
Taylor: Yes because see when I was in, before the 1960's, when
I was in graduate school, let's see, I'm trying to
Rosita Taylor
11
think what year, there were because I had some friends
who had friends who were Muslims.
Ferguson: In the 1950's?
Taylor: Yeah, in the 1950's in Atlanta. And there were a few
in Missouri. I lived there also. They were not as,
you know, as on the scene as we see them now.
Ferguson: We don't really know very little about them especially
in the south. Can you tell me a little bit about the
First Ward neighborhood? Was it a close knit
neighborhood?
Taylor: Yes, it was a very close knit neighborhood. It was
basically the socio-economic status of it primarily
was middle class blacks who lived in that
neighborhood. In spite of those who were not, we
didn't see anybody as different. We were very close.
Everybody knew one another. Everybody shared and
protected and cared and truly loved one another in
that neighborhood. We were very open with each other
in terms of our grief and our sorrows and our joys.
Of course, we all, you know, we had to go to a lot of
Rosita Taylor
12
places the same you know. For an example, when we
went to eat everybody ate at the same place because of
segregation at the time. One thing that I felt and
feel proud about it now is that we didn't let barriers
hinder us in what we had to do and who we were.
That's the thing that I feel good about the
neighborhood, yeah. Everybody had a certain kind of
pride in the community in terms of not only it's
physical appearance but also the behavior of the
people in the community. Say for an example, if
somebody passed your home and they happened to be
intoxicated, you know, they would say oh, I'm sorry,
excuse me, you know, and they would sort of straighten
up, you know. So it let you know that hey, I remember
that this is not the best kind of behavior to
demonstrate, you know. From all I remember because I
went through, I mean there were places in that
community, I just went everywhere. Being a member of
our church we visited families, you know, so I was in
almost the streets. The neighborhood was very clean.
Even if people lived in houses that, you know, they
might have been maybe a two-bedroom house but
everything was clean. I mean they might not have had
grass in some areas but it was clean. You know, you
Rosita Taylor
13
didn't see any litter or anything like that. Crime
was really, I don't even remember, I'm trying to
think, I don't remember seeing a police being called
into the neighborhood. If so it might have been very,
very infrequently. Now we had black policemen who
lived in our neighborhood, in our community. But
crime was really zilch.
Ferguson: Who upheld these standards? Were there some watchdogs
in this community or self-appointed people who watched
the neighborhood?
Taylor: No, everybody took their own personal responsibility.
Because see we went to the same schools, we were
taught and it was just a known thing that this is how
you taught everybody, it was just a pass on.
Everybody, you know, so it wasn't anybody saying, you
know, I am the watchdog of the community. Everybody
felt their own personal responsibility to do the right
thing.
Ferguson: Do you remember their being - who were the important
people in your neighborhood? Do you remember any
neighbors or even people in your own family who were
Rosita Taylor
14
sort of neighborhood leaders or unofficial leaders who
watched out for people in the neighborhood?
Taylor: Okay, everybody did. I'll give you an example. Like
when I went to school even, let's take elementary
school, I lived about maybe six or seven blocks from
the school. So from the time I left my home until the
time I reached school everybody along the way, you
know, if someone saw you whatever, they were in charge
of you, you know. And your family accepted that, they
appreciated it. They thanked you if they saw anything
good or bad, you know. In terms of, you know, maybe,
what should I say, one person being a little more
outstanding in terms of what they were doing, at the
time we had people who did things like, you know, we
had professionals folks, folks who were doctors and
teachers and stuff but they still didn't try to be the
person in the community to say look, I am the
spokesperson.
Ferguson: Were there any bad areas of town that you weren't
supposed to go to?
Taylor: No. I mean there were areas where you went to, you
Rosita Taylor
15
knew what to do when you were there. But there were
no areas where you say well, don't ever go there. You
know what I'm saying? If you went there, I'm trying
to think of one area below, I don't recall it because
I'm still thinking of golly, all the places we went
to, everywhere. (Laughter)
Ferguson: What do you remember about the house in which you
lived and some of the ones around you? Do you
remember the house you grew up in?
Taylor: Un-huh.
Ferguson: Can you describe it please?
Taylor: It was a simple house in terms of it's structure. We
had three bedrooms, a living room, a dining room, a
kitchen, a family room, a bathroom. Okay, it was one
level. You know, we had a bedroom for - before my
sisters came I had my own bedroom. And then when they
came along I was away in school so they had my
bedroom. We had all of the modern equipment. When
the TV came out we had TV. We had telephone. When
everything came out we always had it, okay. We always
Rosita Taylor
16
had it. We had a back yard. We had a car. We had a
fireplace too. I remember we had a fireplace in our
living room. But we didn't use that, seemingly when I
was small we used that for awhile but then we had -
what did we have - then they were having a special
kind of stove. I'm trying to think, it wasn't, it
must have been, I don't remember an oil stove though.
No, it was gas - it might not have been gas either.
It might have been and oil stove. But I remember it
was a big kind of thing that we had. It was a simple
modest house. I remember we kept it as neat as
possible. I was the person, that was my
responsibility. We sort of worked together. Anything
that had to be done in the home, like we painted our
own house outside, inside, my mom, my aunt. We always
did everything in our house. We never hired somebody
out to do it. We always said hey, it's a challenge
and something we want to do. Other houses in our
neighborhood basically were on the same order. We had
an apartment, I think it was like a four family
apartment in our neighborhood. We had about I think
maybe one or two of those. Most of the houses were
similar to ours.
Rosita Taylor
17
Ferguson: Did your family own their own home?
Taylor: Yes.
Ferguson: Do you have any particular memories about childhood,
times when you were particularly happy or sad?
Taylor: Always happy. Yeah, I was always happy. That's what
I can say. I had a good time being a kid. First of
all I had, I mean I really had love in my family. My
great aunt who we lived with, she was the kind of
person she read, I don't know whether my mother told
you but she worked for ( ) and so she would be home
on Thursday and so she would read to me like all those
fairy tales, Grimes, had that, I mean Grimes had his
fairy tales. All of the riddles, she would go over
those things with me. The Bible, she would tell me
the stories and constantly reading the Bible and
teaching prayer and this kind of thing. When I grew
up I took vocal lessons. I took piano lessons. I
also took dance lessons. I remember as a child, we
played, we used to - I tell my sisters and they sort
of laugh you know because what we did as children in
the neighborhood in the mornings we'd get up, we'd
Rosita Taylor
18
have our breakfast and everything and then there was a
time we would come out and we played the games like
baseball, you know, and we played all of what we
called the strenuous games in the morning when it was
nice and cool. Then we'd go in, take a rest, do
whatever chores we had to do then and finish with
dinner and then we'd come back and we'd take a bath
and we'd put on new clothes, you know, for the evening
because we had special games like red light where we
just wouldn't get dirty, you know. (Laughter)
Ferguson: What's red light?
Taylor: It's weird, you have a person who stands a certain
number of feet away from each other and there are
other folks in the back. You turn your back to the
leader and you start counting. The object of the game
is for the people in the back to try to race up to you
before you turn around and look at them and catch them
running. The first one who gets up to where you are,
the leader, is the red light caller. So you count
one, two, three red light. While you're counting
everybody is running and you turn around and try to
catch the person and that person is out if he's
Rosita Taylor
19
caught. So we used to do that. (Laughter) And then
when I was in elementary school we had, oh we had all
kinds of things. We were taught black history in
elementary. We had a little rhythm band. I was in a