F.F.S.C.G.L.M.R. DIGITIZATION PROJECT 2010-2011 · 2011-02-07 · country, of course MY grandparents on my mother's side I know about them., I: You see, the reason I am asking is

Finnish American Historical Archive and Museum

FINNISH FOLKLORE AND SOCIAL CHANGE IN THE GREAT

LAKES MINING REGION ORAL HISTORY PROJECT 1972-1978 (Funded in part by the National Endowment For The Humanities)

F.F.S.C.G.L.M.R. DIGITIZATION PROJECT 2010-2011 (Funded in part by the Keweenaw National Historic Park Advisory

Commission / U.S. Department of the Interior, National Park Service) CONDITIONS FOR USE OF .PDF TRANSCRIPT: Finlandia University, formerly Suomi College, holds the exclusive copyright to the entirety of its Finnish Folklore and Social Change in the Great Lakes Mining Region Oral History Collection, including this .pdf transcript which is being presented online for research and academic purposes. Any utilization that does not fall under the United States standard of Fair Use (see U.S. Copyright Office or Library of Congress), including unauthorized re-publication, is a violation of Federal Law. For any other use, express written consent must be obtained from the Finnish American Historical Archive: [email protected]. PREFERRED FORMAT FOR CITATION / CREDIT: “Maki, John”, Finnish Folklore and Social Change in the Great Lakes Mining Region Oral History Collection, Finlandia University, Finnish American Historical Archive and Museum.

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Finnish American Historical Archive and Museum Finlandia University 601 Quincy St. Hancock, Michigan 49930 USA 906-487-7347 - fax: 906-487-7557

:';;'.:';;..':':1'" "~ c ,

Th~f.qJ;l~ing pages represent approxlmatelY.'~~J.ght ~nd one-halfho,~~:,."," ,,;.. Cc."'~';"'""'"

.nd comments£ taped interviews,pboto~:,

innish family of;ithe~ ': '

The family interviewed was a first generation F

[Jppe];"~:Peninsula.

RESPONDEJlIT :

llgust tlelsten:

e: 68

Born: 1909()c cupat ion: ,retired:em

cWife: Ell~nHelsten

~9'

m: 1 91B1".ousew:u~tion:

lJnited'statesin,1,900~~ntsofthe respondent immigrated t}jE'ftle" \ c,

fter several year8~a8,ablEc I ","., c",-,,;and," . .The respondent's father worked 1.n them1.nE

the mine~ h~ ~aisedthe~rkWhil p~ptjnuingctotocpurchase a sma. ' . c... .c

twelvech1.}dren,pneof¥p;ich~di. "..0.'," '.the Th~r~w_er'arm.. '

family food,~'~pply 011. .

thepropert,Y'3.ch moved ofIdren maturedcthey;As the ct: .cthe year ...~f ~~,t~}}:

yre'Bpondent.\bo~- ,-The mal ri1909,'fina:rea.but remained I.. within th~same

mucheD1~lle:support hi:1ble'rom hi mother and wa'purohased"thefann

c

daughters grew, he fo:und 'itthe'arm prOduct"°,.18.1&,,;0£ the.;

~~~):~withthe . .., iNo~ lJ.vJ.nga.1..on~'- '" in' b '

'0 ... "C'ih:anothe,.". .was necessary to supplemen ne ~his inc.' ,

fa~ in a;'semi-retirerktheto~n, they...continuEth~same house bewa: bor

c: ,..-fash],on.

.,..

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Vaasa., yes my Grandmother was born in Vaasa. And R2's folks were in,

Kurikka. All the people that Ikno'Ware Irom what they call the cen-

tralwestern area of Finland. They call this the OStrobotbnia

which means the South of the Northland. 1!.~lapohjanmaa is the Finnishword.,

The South of the Northland Yes, and then there a lot of people from this section "Note" She is showing me a map of Finland.

It was in 1939 that the Russians took over this area..... cDJ.d you ask R2? c~

~ c,

Yes, I did, but- he just doesn't seem to remember too much, all I knowc '. :.

isR2'sFathe~!s name was John Victor but they called him Victor.;And

he married Maria he had no family they say he was illegit-

imate but the family doesn't want to bring that"out too much. There,

are others tho' because I know that there is a brother in Ohio and one

in New Hampshire.. .. . .most likely his Mother did marry then and he does

have half brothers and half sisters, ,but they always just called them

brothers and sisters R2's Mother said I guess she had never

discussed that with her kids or something, but she did tell me so evi~~

dently, his mother did marry somehow his family just l1veda-

JS.rt now I should tell you my Father and his three brothers as

they got to be teenagers they were, more or less, farmed out to big es-

tates and do you know that each took the name of the estate they

didnl.tkeep their Father's name they were of that household and this is true of so many Finnish fa.milies theyare brothers and

.

sisters and they all have separate names ".l c"

"Note" r detect s-e wishes not to discuss the

illegitimate at this point!

Do you have any idea when this was?; : ..

T}1atwouldbe around let's see, my Father was born J.n 1879 . ,

that would be early 1890's mY Mother was born J.n 1886. But R2 s

mother;...let's see we'll put the dates down for their births...R2's

father:i,Jasborn in 1819 and his mother was born in 1880. They were

married in 1900 very soon after they were mariied R2'sfather im-~

migrated by himsel~because if he would have g,ayed he would have been

constricted into the Russian aDny see Finland belonged to Russia~ c '

at the time !4"'inland didn't get it's independence until7'tlorld War: . .. .

.1 in 1916. 'rt1ey had bel.on~d to Russia for 140 years but for the..pre-"

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and board.

How do say thE area again?,'..It'srea.lly what they ~all ato~o~ a weren't really cities

.theywere small they would just have ac church and 1

suppose and things like that. cO

You don't have any idea of the size and that? : . ,

At that time (looking at a map) I doubt if it would be any~igge~", l'

than National Mine.

I see 500 or 600 people., .Yes, that's about all. And there were so many because travel was

difficult; th~ had these little towns there were quite a Iew be-

cause you couldn't travel very far to. go to bl.1Y what you needed.,!

should ~y that they were almost self-suffic!i.ent, they raised their own..

wool, my mother talks when they woUld weave their own cloth, faise

their flaYtb spin '

. ,; coc,..., ,,",'.,;.,. ,; ,~ey were farmers then? 'cc:;i";i'!.'e:!CCJ',":c', . ~

Yes, that whole country was basically agricUltura.l,outsid~offish...'.. .J.ng J.ndustrJ.es ~ ,',: ;::l!i"fi.~~,:,~,,'c/,,' ,

. :':,rl1 thought lumberJ.ng ... '( :i.',\/". I ' :,',:1:.'

Well, now it is. It was to a certain extent but nothing like now.

That's their biggest. exploit now is lumbering. :'It only goes for theirI

own use th,eydontt raise any they raise pi~ and chickens now..

but they still have to import The faming that they did, did they do it to sell or was it just for

self-s~staining .!

Mostly to sustain and to trade. Maybe they traded, I really don't

remember that. But they were going to thf! market and everyone woUld

bring their produce to a central place and they would buy what they,

needed and sell what they had tb sell., ~

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Where did they go from there?Well, I thiI1k they ,",culd go to Seinajoki, that is a blgger city. But

very rarely toofaraway..~~...if my grandfather would go to Vaasa,-

and he would be gone for a week or more. They'd go with the horses

and the wagon. It was basically agricultural and small industries,

home industries, weaving and'coppering to make things that everybody

needed There were small industries of these types."Note" She shows me the towns on the map and

regularly refers to it.

~104

I: Were you from the same at'ea~

R1: My mother came from pretty 'close to the same area Kurikka.

I: It appears to be close.

R1: Now they are, but in those days they were really quite small. My

mother divorced my father when I was maybe two years old so I know

very little about my Father.

I: Do you have any idea how the original marriage took place?

R1: ~ father's? No my mother and father were married in this

country, of course MY grandparents on my mother's side I know

about them.,

I: You see, the reason I am asking is on this map it looks like twenty

miles...R1: Well, you mean, let's see my mother was born in Kurikka and when

they were little they moved to Ilmajoki Joki means river. There

were these landed estat~s, real big estates thatt really farmed in a

big way cattle and grain mostly grain grainwas the...in

fact the Finnish word for grain is synomous for the word life. ,

1: That's pretty interestir18' You could hardly live without it.,

R1 z So ~in was the big thing. I have an ori~inal pa.inti~ from Finland

right there and that shrNS the grain fie1\3 c3.S they are coming forth in

the sFing e:verything is planted in grain.

"Note" She appears to be very proud of it. Thepainting is done in pastels..watercolor

I: Is this something that you recently brought back?.R1: Yes, that one and the only time that I have b -

years ag<:>.

een to Finland which was eight

I; Are ~u going again?

R1: Well, Betty keeps saying, "Ma, we just have to go again." She is the OJ1e

that }moid my way. I had been writing to my cousins, I have severa.l~ i

cousins and at that time I had an aunt too, and I write to them alot

and they keep saying, "'When are you coming back?" I always said that

is one thing that I won't ever be able to do. That was when Betty was

little and Betty would say, "Mom, when I grow up and I am earning money,

I'll take you. And we used to just laugh at her, but by golly, she did!

We visited seven other countries too T have a cousin in Sweden too.,

I: I guess all the little towns were along the river."Note" Still looking at the map. .

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,r transportatIrigim ~C'.nsYes, because that was their

Do they sti 11 use the ri ve'r?

criUroad c~ thru.No, not as tmlct Even my mother' time t1'

r kids int theirIt was a great big feat .everybody piles the

wagons and went to the railroad station to see this marvelous new

thing a steam engine going along on the. ---

holiday to go a few miles to see it.

It lookS like f ;y r I

It was a daystracks.

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nileelbout twen1

are marked in kilometers and they are lessYes, but of course theSE

than a niile I like a

It looks .bout twenty kilomete~

R1: long.10.jut it.

'm so contusedAs y-ou know that is what 'We are going to before

about it a person should start leamingab(

I: Now you said that

Yes there are some but they never kl& -.

the oldest girl's husband somehow got in touch with one

l or something they accidently found each

s father had Irothers and sisters.

~nt in touch. It was after he was1 :

gone that Alii;

at a church convent1011

other Ie has been gone f'or years Donald,

s oldest sister's children. Se~,

dli was born in Finland.

Garol Jean, Evelyn and D

they were married in 1900

States and then in the E

oris. a~ R

eft to come to the United,

ili was born...l think

3.nd then R2's father

Jpring of the next year

was able send foream enough money tyears before heit was two

his faJIJily.

You said heI:

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originally left to avoid Lvoid constriction..

He left to

I: letting the family leaveWhat were th

TtJey didn't

was the Czar

policie ~r the llssian aDnY wi tt

R1 : t ;;.lexander II, he

the Communist~ took

-of d I think,. or)

~hat.

~ver that th~v became t. or; ~t the Russian people were living unCzar, but he had such complete con-

There was no uprising until...l

gone either way in Russia

der a complete ah a ki~

trol.. .the people were used to 1

think the turmoil started and it :>u1d haVE

during World War I th~:re vas such a fine

became a democracy as well But Finland hi . -

a democracy works imJTIp:diatelythey gave women

line that they could have

ad a pretty good idea of how

suffrage they gave them" r

Iroperty...it still)u14 ~venthey (mp;~the same statu

isn't that wa;y- .n FrancE

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Apparently you have done alot of reading Well, I suppose because I.'have all of these relatives which we would

~~-i""like to communicate with l was there and I was able to communicate

:."with them in person so a little bit gets left in your head, you know how

it is.;Doth~,relatives that are there presently,do they have any ideas of,

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corning to the states?No, thereisa quota system now, and as many as possible corne from

Finland butyou see the United States has a quota system and the

quota system is full for five years.,

But they would still like to corne?~relatives, one of them has mentioned this to me...but there were,

! like your generation were wanting to immigrate..if they can't come to

theUnited!States...the second pl.ace they want to go is to Canada..~f:

they can't get to Canada they would )ike to go to Australia. But there;,' 'r. "

are an awful lot of young ~ople who still would like to leave~: Tb~Yc".' - ! ;..

are great lor education, they are just the greatest readers in the

.world, b~tyou know, I'd say about two-thl.rds of the educated young

..

people, c:ol1e~ graduates, are out. of work. They are still doing ,..

menial jobs even tho' they have spent all of these years studying! .

..:""..',,;..j,

and spent all this money .Finland cannot account, they.'~ust~?n~t: ,-'!

have enough industry, no way to expand on any type of industry ,orb:ig 'ci[~

,.

business.. Alot of them have migrated to Sweden. Germany has been iapl;;c~I

the Finns have always like to go... German was a language they all ~anted

to learn but it isn't any more when they needed a second languageI

in school was always the one to study aside from Finnish and Swedish.

! .Never Russl.an? "., ", ,

01, no Never Russian when the war was over in 19-39 the !I'inns. ~

had to pay the war debt to Russl.a and it took them unti11952. Every-. '.0".

ye~rtheyhad to supply Russia with so many ships and Finland didn't.. '"

even have a shipyard that they could make these big ships that they,

had to give to Russia. Right from there, the very_scratch, ,.Finland had

to! build shipyards with which to build these ships that they had tp

give to Russia .as a war payment. ~eY say it was a blessing in

disguise because now they have these beautiful bigshipyaros and they".

are making ships for alot. of countries all.over the world. They make

,.t"ri!'7tl;~_,£

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. .very very ~od shJ.ps and J.\, they hadn't had to do that ~nder stress

~dstrain, it might never had happened. Their building is stili

going very very strong in F. nlam right now, very very hea~ becauseJ.

theynej:}ded new schools, and they needed new roads, they needed new

.; eve:r'ythJ.ng, because the war really got them down to nothing. But they

..~y they don't care~s long as they are able to keep theJ.r J.ndependence.

NatU3!ally, with a big power right next to them they have to tread on ~

tightrope...theycan't do everything they want to do. BUt they say they

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don't mind that because they are still independent. But alot of the

c,

young ~ople think that that LS just :pot going to last 50 that is why

scmany of them want to leave. They- say that anything that happens

Russia will use that as a pretext to take over the country."

There is an amazing amount of,wat~r there isn't there? r

Yes, that's what they cali F.;.flland, th~ land of ten thousand lakes, qut- j

th~yreally have more thant~t. It is just emerging from the ice a~,

it still is emerging from the ice ae;e.~~. .the 1and is still steadily .l

j,

;;ising every yefijX and the lakes are getting more shallow. Itisa

1 ad- , ,'"

ual process but it is still land that was re~ pusheqdown by the ast" .glacJ.er. "

...

:J~.fi5~inga big part of their life?:'

~~s, fishWg isve~ big ~ong all the coast e5peci~lly. I don' ~ know"' - C" i

:iiowgOodthe fishing is in these inland lakes. It Is not as good as ! the

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oce~£ishing. A g-;reat part of the fishing industry died because so}" Co

Itnich fish is ava.ilabl~.B ,] tit seems to me they were all ocean £ish i

and of course, visiting Helsinki, fish is a real mainstay in their diet.

it is very easy to supply. ,

Is beef a No, beef is very Rmal1. They don't even have any beef cat'tle'all th~y "

, f

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have is dairy cattle~~c.and when she is too old for anything else theYl,~~: j

will mCike sausage oui:f~f her... .sausage , and of course they do raise!

pigs, sausage is another mainstay in their life. I t~irik i~ the,daYf.f

of our father most people were self-sufficient they would sla~htf!r

~alves they had a lot ofveal...pigs were raised and do y~~krOW

ihattheyraisec:l, cl1ickensbut there was never chicken available in a].

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;r~stu~~t. I still don't know about t~tj bu~ they must do somethinf

,wJ.th tho~echicken5 when they get too Ofdjto lay eggs they mustett

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R1 : them but?obody ever m~~tioned cryi?~,;~\..'~d rio restaurant ever had; ! ""';

any chicken on. their menus,~ So I neve~ fouoo. out what they didwit~ the

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chickens.

Does anybody know what they do with their chickens?

Yes, because we never were served any and we never saw it on the menu

or in the stores. T~ey can't imagine the abundance of things that we

Mve. They live well but it still isn't What do you mean well? You don't mean financially well i

No, they have sufficient foods, shelter, bUt Let us go back to R2's father it seems like thecfamily ties

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were notto~ lmportant It seems that young people left home so early there just wasn't land

for them, that they would gq out to work very ~oung. Fortunately

Finnish people came to this country the language is totally differ-,

ent'than the Scandanavian i~p;e Swedish and Norweigan for th~m it

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was very easy.. because the~e were sim~l~i t tee' in the lan~ge it w~s:, i

1easy for them to learn the l!)'lglish language...the written look of itiis'..

very similar but the Finnish is totally different. Tnere isnot~ne, '

similari:t.ybetweenthe Swedish and the Finnish. ;.

How many letters in the alphabet? r,:

'r11ere is 26...no 28 eachletter has its own sound and after the z:

there is a.Yla. and a"n 0 with the dots on. Whenc one letter has more than

one sound they added it to the end and put:theitwo dots onit and where.. ; .

J.t J.8 accented in a word they use doublele:tte;-slJ.ketwo a's,two l's . . ,..'," i'

..;. xt J:sntt hard to learn. .. ;c"" "..

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Are there many different diale cts? '..

Yes, ve:rY thats almost as bad as this count:rY and it is such a ~mall

count:rY. LitCe if somebody comes fromthb FAstem area they clip their

words so close;..theydon't put the long sounds to any of the wordsj..":.., i

they clip the words so it would be a while for you to know whatthel are

talking about. i

Could you giv~ me an example? .,WelY,I can only speak this one way, 'but I have heard people speak this

-..short way they drop a substantial part ofaword they told ~e

I spoke such go~ Finnish...it is so old;."'fashionedl ~ mother came to

this cotintry in 1902. so I speak in the sort 'of Finnish that was spoken.

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there than So."n.c old~ fashiO'fled, they said!"

~t you apparently know a'little more about your family then Yes, I do Are they still li vi~ in the same area?

Yes, my cousins Ionly have cousins I have one inVaasa...t~ey,

live on a farm,they have chickens Do th~y eat their chickens ? !

That is what I never found out" you know they don't know anything

about apple pies, they had apples out there falling on the ground

and'I proJnised to make them a pie and we were going to the store to buy

some cinnamon for the pie but that never happened so we didn't get aI

pie. r,How; did your cousins accept you? ..

~, they treated us like royalty A11 of them? ...,

Yes, all of them and they had ~ewspapers come to interview us...eachone of them wanted to keep us a littlelonger they would always say

to go tomorrow, ,each wanted to keep us a little longer than other cousins

there was real competition among them they did evemhing possible

for us. l'W cousins range from very well to do to poor "Note" She shows me a newspaper clipping wi th her

picture and a rather long article.

They are livj.ngin the same area?

Yes. they are living in the same general area '!bose that were well to do, what kind o.f ~ j

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He worked with ~tals, he bought and traded metals scrap dealer? , !

he had people do it he was very well to do 1rtfact, bewa9tedItocallR2 butI said he wou.ld think that we had an accident or: ,

something~ andthe time difference was so great Did you discuss any of th~ history with them?

Notioo much they discusseq some o!theirwar experiences with me,

this last war, but "note" Sh~~shows mepic~ures of her relatives

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They had beautiful textiles If they are of suchrneager means do they ~ke their own? i

Yes, theYTJ9.de their own, you kI1ow girls would be dressed to the ~'...

. .'-and they would go out and rJ.de a bJ.cycle I could never get over.

that.. ... because you ~nowwe,go out and :ride bikes aroUnd here,and ,wear

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the most casualclothes but there they cannot afford the cars so. ~~""-";?" """C,,!' "

they go opbJ.ke~orbuses :

1Ifhat kind ofcarsd,o they have there?,

Tney have small, oh this is what I want to tell you, they have mostlyi

Swedish made cars and alot of German made cars...Vdkswagons asa

part of the deal when the war ended, "fussia said Finland had to buy

so many Russian Made cars everyyear they demanded that the and 'iTiY cousins said that those cars sit on the dock and rust away.. .'.

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and those people who do buy them because they are quite cheap, at that

time..in 1968, a Russian car would cost about $800.00 anybodywho

buys them is looked down upon thereis an animosity there i.'

Where didR2's father come when he c~'tothe United States...right~

here?He came rigtlt to Ishpeming.

Did he get off a boat?,He got off the boat in New York, I think the railroad service was quite

good bY that time ! know when my mother came from the f!ast coast she.

travelled by rail we did travel on the lakes for a while So he must have had some relatives here .

He had some, I think he had some, .): don't know how close, but there was,.

somebody here, either a close £riend or a relative that I don't re-,

member, this is what! have not been able to find out in the family~...C C

the miningcompanies the goverrJnent would put posters aroundtb i

ten the people that jobs were available in such and such an area. .'.like. 'cthat is what the copper minirig;people did, jobs were available and land

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was available and times were so bad that people for economic reasons

even if they didn't say they wanted tolea.ve they almost had to :and this

was the place to go because this is where there was room and jobs...some

of them worked terribly hard in the mines, they were mostly farmers and

,they did not £ann but went to the mines to work. . . .. '

Did B2's father work in. the mines before?

No, there were no mines in that area.

He hadn' t mi~ted to Germany to work in. the mines there?

No, or Sweden or anything...no I think there were some people,

maybe the first~ople that came had worked in mines in Sweden,or some-

thing yes, that they had experience in mining or something but as

"far 'as all ofmyrelativesa.nd R2's relatives none of them were miners~..

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there were maybe a few mines way up there somewhere (Northern Finland). :

I don't even know for"~ertain T1:Iey even had to ditch this area, they

would have long narrow fields and they would build them up in the center

so they wouila slope to each side so there would be ditches and myI

mother said that was the hardest 'work that anypody ever had to do was

to build those ditches and all the fields had to be ditched for more'

drainage. ,otherwise the fields wouldn't~ow anything and do you know

that when those farmers came her'e they thought they had to do the very

same thing they were going to startdiggingditche$here until somebodyItold them that there was no need to do that, that there was natural I

~inage here, they didn't have to ditch their fields You know it is kind of interesting too, why would R2' s father come here

to work ina mine as opposed to starting a farm'?"

Well, this is what all the miners did as soon as they were able too, they

. got a fann but only a farm big enough to support' their family.. .afteri

so many years they had accumulated eno~~money to buy this farm...e~en if

they lived in a location they had little plots of land, even if they,

lived in a location they had a plot of land td raise ,some potatoes, to

raise their own food theystill basically like that that is what

they say in the Copper Country too that men worked for the mines

only long enough to accumulate enough to buy smmeland.. .their lives were, '

rea1:IY roUgh too short seasons, but this is still what they wanted!t d ~ !

0 o. [..f

nidY9urfamily come to the states too?.

My mother ca..tne and she was just 16 years o~~~d she came to Ishpeming.

Did she have any children then?No, she was unmarried, only a ydung woman of age 16, she came with a

neigi:tbor women she was allowed to come because the neighbor woman

had been here before and this lady said she would sponsor her and sh~

immediately got jobs in this famous boarding house, I think in Princeton,

also she would help Finnish families thath~a ],ar~ family and theber

people would 'hire these girls from the ol~c~~try for practically~o-c '

thing room and board and only a a month, ,thate.jis

about aU they gave them '

1What~was-~ourmother'8 name? ' 1. . i' 'c

My mother's name was H11JaR1:

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And my mother 1TIc1.rried my ~d and his name was Scunuel I think one

was the £amily name but that was never used because he went to a Swedish

estate and took their name and his oldest brother Mike lived in Wake-.'..' c- ,- '-£1eld I got to see him once my mother and father got divorced, my

rnoth~r kept me away from my dad's family, well not really, he had visiting

rights my father lived in Vermont and each weekend, on Friday nights

my rather would come and get me with a car, that was the only means I

'Where was it that you were living then?

~ mother and I were living in New Hampshire, that is where I was born,

they were "married in Massachusetts, and my mother divorced him... .she

was in her thirties and my father was in his forties when they got

married they just never got along..~.she claj.med that my rather.was a drinking man. She worked and she claimed that a£ter he drank

,up his ~ycheck he drank up hers so she put an end to that andf

I ~s an only child. She said she could get along with met she just

w.nted to get rid of him but he would come and take me to hisbrpthe1!'s

farmland and my mother would come by train to pick me up but I di~ .'j

I

have contact with my father as long as we were living out east. Qnde

i ,we came back to Michigan where she was as a Y°unff lady.

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Now just so I get this,when she came from Finland she camPi right to

Ishpeming, then apparently she married No, she worked in this area for about ten YPiars and she went back to

Finland for awhile, one year's visit Her original intention was only for a. visit Yes, to go back to ~'inland yes she came to this country to live

am to work and when she had lived and worked here for ten years, she

went back to Finland for one years visit and then when she came back

she stayed out east and then she worked out east, because like I

say she was about thirty years old when she got married there were

factories in the east, they were textile factories, mostly and the

JnY was so nnIch better than what she had been getting as a house maid

or working in a boarding house the pay was fabulous compa,red to

what she had been getting just working in homes or boarding houses...

she stayed there and worked in a factory I

I: How long did she stay there?

~13

Well, she married my fa~her,I think in the earl~ ~tof 1916, a~d';:l;

she came back to the Un1ted States from Finland 1.n , I think 1913,sdshe was back about thr,~y:earsbefore",~he married my father and then I

I..[

I was born in the middl~ of 1917 and my father and my mother de-t

cided. .they were going to come back to Michi~n becaus~ my father's \;;~:J.'it""]'

brother Michael was living in Wakefield, they claimed they had a jObl f~f~

my rather as a woodsman but the two of them just never did get ~~j

along... .so she went back with me, out east, but then he came back t#o,'"'r

when 1. was 7 my mother bro~ht back her You were seven?

)Yes, I was seven, the last time I sa~l my father,. notqtite seven v _~+h~... , ...Y'.;on +'hcn?

.

y

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I: LUI.I..L IIJU"UC.L "'~"~.1-"",,-u. v..~... ..'. .. i

fell, she remarried when she was quitepldbut she divorced that mani

too. And when she divorced my father, she took her maiden name back,

legally people do that nowadays but it was almost unheard of

.then she d1.dn't want support, ah she was strong and she could manage. . ':

.a~yway the year I was ~rr1.ed, she got not1.ce that my father had. :

died, and she said she knew Why, that he was drunk and fell outdoors; or

something she never forgave him for his drinking.

When Tgot back frOffi; Finland the first thing R2 asked me was, "Were

the ],inns like his mother, old fashioned and pious?" He also wanted ,

tokriow if there were alot of drunks in Finland.~ I said the Fin~s,

are a hard drinking lot alright, they are a moody and a melancholy Ii

family... .she came alone, nobody else.. ..? '.~~I.f.

I brothers came later but they didn't stayI:

R1 : her twc1.-": ri1 dE;L f1.!l

people.

Well, your mother'

Nobody else came,

they went back to

I:

H1:

I:111:

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Tney carne do you have any idea when they carne?

Yes, they carne in 1904 and 1906.They carne independently then .

Yes, yes they did , :

How long did they stay? r,

They stayed ~ti11909 and one stayed until 1912, or was it, I woul~

have to check my mother's correspondence to find. out £or certain. rheyi

went back to Finland and married and sta.yedth~re. There was112 children. . i

,

114

"'" ,.in the family and oniyab~ut!bf them survived to adult. In those l[

days,. tuberculois was a real bad threat. It seems tome that half the

peop1e in their )ate teens and early twenties died of tuberculois, be-I;::iyi:::: ::::e:;':i::.o::~~::d,,~.l :e~~g e:::~~: :::~:: ifo

close it was to conserve heat and in the winter time there was f ' ., ;

no day just like in the sunmer time there is no night in tnat part 0i

the world.the states, did they:;go,

'.'.The rest of the family, they didn't come t

.

anywhere else?.No, they all staye~ 1n a very very close area.

Did they look down on your mother?..

Oh, rtO, no, they didn't. 'Ii1ey thought that she was quite a girl to

do that, to come by herself at 16. But to tell you the truth, my

famJ:lYcdid not seem to be too Ithink they were kind of cold,

,cold to each other, or were they just so reserved or what was it?i

There were never any words of endearment, it seemed they weren't tob

f

interested in each other's well being lWhy do you suppose that was? i

;

I don't know was it the severity of thel~life?. ,."!.t wasn't any difference in thej~r Pc:>li tical ideas?

No,..I can't !. doubtit very nnlch theywerevery pious people,. i:

church going people. There were big flat rocks, this is where they:

stopped they went down to the riller, there they washed their feet,,.. i

~t on their shoes and stockings and that w~s also that was the place

they did the...ha..ha you know behind the bushes they woua.d!go

to church, then on the way back stop at the big flat rock again, and

take off their shoes. They weren't goi~ to wear out their shoes walk-

ing. Ha..ha How far was the church?

I would say it was about 5 kilometers at least, so that would be abouti

three miles and they would walk. And in ancient times this is when theyl

would have this river boat that would hold up to two dozen people" that

was already in the 1300's."Note" 1

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I:

R1 :

1.:

R1 :

1.:

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we are looking at photographs of familyin Finland as well as.her trip in 1968.She has many albums readily at ~and.

.. ' .

ThlS 1saSaUnaji.~~van"~o;;;\J~;t:~

"e:"big over th~re o '~:

.'~'r.. Saunas

here theyc;:'originated l1nashattEVJ~ll', ,R I:.

hat but stl.ll...i:J:I Yes, kne\'J, , ",';'¥,CC"'-'Cc

they have eno~gh..;t~~~i%~.9t,,-'~Y11~~e;_Sj~:~gR":&:: ~" l ~S{,"' ,-,;;,_c.c. ""

'R ~~J'T

,}~",," yes;

dOh!t"the 1'c,.. Y

i'!~c~tbe"..l ~ke tooLake""~.'",,.;,,:1 ,

if..1:) "

2~..""',:{Ec"'.'~""C 'n'c '.'1

he doesn't care i;,t1'~;l:!e~:ljas one or ,d~~~,c,_,c"l", .":;,,,'"

'" ". C ",,~",,~,

He'ili1{eea sauna~~u:t!.c,"":R~I;:thos~;Finns over there c",\':!c!c:.,,!.'ct,o',TBut, my goodness

sauna.die if the'y couldn't have a

1. was 'a kid thatII am againsti;;I;-~'i¥ {~ t~":1tT:;';.1M ~; licLli-c-.

., ic!" c.R 2~ saunas because v"hen

n ato do waswas all w~1:~hac",,/~,c,'o

Itiwasal1f a day"""for~t:Q.1{1~:t~i t ~:at'-, " ~~' "

~nd~henyq~, "-".cc

and theny-py!The e,moke ould come ina~$mok&!.Js~na","""'("'"1:;"'"C'+~~r1i~~he smoke ou,t"~~A';ij;~to let :'Pfi~ej

'4';\'~"would alrave

here .was n9iQ~~r~::~n"""i t ,~" h~,q; o;},~~a t~tg

, "

of there.,

that

",lAh "'" 1 .:,~';7 .

.. 0"0.. :;t',~~j~]..nOYl ~YE;~f~:tak~ng,hen '.TOU vie re

"£h~fehe watel" vias boil'~

,,;~,whereointYou .- t ':~:\""'~~'~~~',"~:i{' tthJ US 'l~"t:Wa 1:;eu";~.i.:{.~Wt) 0 ec '..:, ,k,.cC~~"cCci~~Z

""~"."cc C

I,n:,,+'bp.of the".~

tea towel\','()ult~Ej#reing:'~.. on the rocks:c c. ,!~'iV!fJ:t. ~Jj.,outfftli~big

c,

~was a heck of',;!.' .""f"QJ,c~$;. ..there

!iCe! !wh'e~a child is abo~~t('y!6ti'~r'fobabl know that e;'[n:,;i!F:tn1Z'an~"P y ~;:cj; 1"'.0 c",,~,~-.- . c"".""";""";";:~"~'Ci,R -1:

themQther tOb,and.tfcc~C'~;w~t;9i¥i!~~~ sauna vlheret '.<' b ;' b ~,~v,,~~0 e, orn C~~;;L.""" :c 1\"..: VIaE:

went.c , c?,h~Y al'Jaye.wherewife,the mid

;fB~tc

1didnt..t""' - c c:No , know~:hildren were bor~~!in

;;"~\~-"'

t h'L;;~'.;:oa~una; s ':",:"i;'-~c!o'rf",," ~.','

Yes all, c

theR I:c':; C'"Tne:ch~l.dren were born ln

.., c

the;:,sa~n?~.. .t:

"1.:t~'.. ,'"~

;:~'i:;!b~ \'~.'ii' ~was th~~:::pn~p"lean antiseptic place andthaYesRl:

place becauf'e it '-Tasould~'t havepickec a better

here a germ wouldri'.t'c:";,,:' c ;'c ' ,.c c

absolutelvheate d!tothe p ol:ri t"- "c.. 'c!" c

c

And then'~;a.',,'ay fromI .

~

have a~:6;h~~d~."."'," ",,,.,~

of heThat vIas ~~,[p~r\:th- , t " t,eJr~,E of the family" ,

were bull t'~:fn;. o'",,'c.""':h'~!::~;~9H,§~~~there \'la~nt,t"" eno'that.~b~'tly communal rooms,' n?

the rooms were-~~~h. a way,

the place whe;-ethat wa£b..~~;;"'!* g"Oy\,J,"rea':".;;c.prJ;y~te room

My:0 when children ¥,~ereborn;.they would always'isters Y!qre bOrn there were,~ "other said that when her

old and somebodythree yearEthat snei W8twins

weB taking: 'cC:"C ;""

eXG~pt~ trat..':ther~",~,",~""C~-C'. "'~ ~~" "c'C

gQP~:.JiY:~t:$~,~

""C''g~Gna..and she would have-laying on the path so she didn!t qare:to ~;:oc" ~'c ~W~"$:d~':ilj::qr:@

Butthere:~j"

h~ve"gdR~'i'~~':n~that sauna."' C:,7~C_"""

ike that?

~

'ijf6)~~~§Wellbaththo..regulartpem no¥!0 homes ha;Y~Well-to-0-No,

~,~""jC"'",C}1ostlyi;#iictt~~f:;;;~tke opt .in the..,;".'c ..,

:taal1Lyi..fgncy.. 0."",""'

rooms,!,~~;[~9~really isn't,b-e'~aU~Ee1~t". - "" "",t.;,,,,:,

;..l.-shou.ldn't say sticks,

Co !""+

~~~rItlsmost.ly, saunas.it still~ft~{"the small towh~, .' "C fC." ~hc c ~ ~""'c.~ ;,,~";;cc "K.O;!"i¥"'~o,iicj"c" ';:"c

.' .

the1rso apart ofwhat's more, alQt~$~O;'\rr;,~Ant!;:,~+~'

l ;' dth .~5~~,~~j an e:Lr.?~~~~."C

i ust P ut~t~l

. c".',~

!i¥~:I~"'!{ ! 0"';

.:[Q1;i;ld undress in"~~hQUSeiand

~theytimes .comebackwith~r l'j tlst:,,' ,(,~

,sauna and.'

C"""C": c

ocIu!the"... . cOc-batnrobe on, anthe~r-,!l~Wtt.even bother"~totakEc..' .. ..." ,,;:Theya bathrobe on.

119

I vJasn't aware of tha+';t.c",c'to.""'e" '

¥,,~~~..'_the Orient.That' 8 kiri',;:}~;o'~":c,"t~,.t.1iings in Finland~.. ,c. ",Co.',"do YOU 'realize a Idt{~~!

;31;"'},,~Jell,~c'f:~'~£~:very Orient e8~~~FiallY in !'T,Rt,,~~t:~c

E1;1,rope

Whywouldyo . u say that:~~?:,c;",.'.-'".x~ . ,.

"hen:~T, '.,."'fcc"" ;;;",'--"'C-~c~o~~c,~how 1'lhat they use9 to~.;~,~~t:~~si:r;t school~I

Well"';!i":;,,1}"'$f"':-fr,\Sc c. '" c

:tb;atlt:~+l Finns a~~;~~ongolians.was ayourtgster..':~~'.'f'CA::'.c, 1"

every on~~,~~~~;U8;blond,~n4""a";;...~",., . ,","'tI';"'. 'l""" "~C'c""~

jUsthadtblO'Ok~(a:$7'i~s", .' i'c.:;;;"~~',,,,~~iyo~and theyv..ere(R,t"e:JiJ;;~'fi:g."..,c ,cc""C,"',"oJiwh~t;e"~~ipblue-eyed and ...:hi te ,

ell;i.)1ouYouonogolian. II"Y:)u're a\~i e r et he :pE1 op I.e

..~".c"-,""';cc ,c, " -j """':': "e Laplanderssee

~

~~r"'o~~~;i1t!!f1thlspa r t~co,~~",}~ .~~,

j

whoori~i~~ll:y

~~

.ey[arps.;:an1r;rf~~' : ::i!"~''~~.r;:tai n amount of A sian,pl~~th:eFi.nhs,~h~re;i sthat

~c... c Cc - C

\fest'~rn Finns athe'" "C' c"~'" c '

smallness but :lmainl y."[ ".' "darkne$sc;arld,",.c

T~e...tfuth:;,.i"s,l:~£hat. 0 , ofc,"~"ycdeiinitel ~qandinavian.;~'e~$et,~i~r~~~6~~::

of things a n dtj~~ Q~~ ~ ~:'C~~~~~~~. ,.",,"" o~~~;!):;.,""j,~l1\",-!'

",. ..

the Oriental" yp e:.,~.~~~Q~

Th"e:~ nn sIf.."~.+J; Finland:;'-oJ

~l~ealize i~ idn' untiancbecome'4"H~"+ ~... ",r y ,c" 0

\".c'"" C" ..,~~ripiim r\" "

:0 very. qui7~k'icl\:y~"\",,j;,~

,t~atcarJ1e

~~Q~:~~~:r.~,:),hem 'a lon gtook~e¥£c~aii~~deven tho it l.~

thisl'and.c . .he a'x",~.. C

!$'~l"t , ',.1.c - "

took on.}::#g~t§h. he;;' U;,'-!

"T" -~c '"D" n " 0 " d~ t '.J!herei:t'nT di ~~c[,~1

~.ff,~hen "thE

S e. d"'t l:::th~~0 vJ. ~~ Y!"c"c,E!~";:~ot of 11g8.Oriental.. nqy~r+~y

~~~a~',:,;t.h'e:fw'est.'..!I'~~~"c. " c~.f°"M,~"~pIes s fr'.'jtf5'Cg.:r~¥i'"'" ~¥ Of

th~] le g ' land, faroundc' }, c

ere~ad~;of leathE tiec'~:~\'~:ii\" ,'co',""",C"60;J;v"'};DOOtS,c ",c""ciic"

~~:;;~w~"'@ for n~~?~:~f:;traw asusec

c~,';12 9ct ,

"""""t~~?"'~~ tJ.!:.t4;':,";;'i.+;g~1:~don't s"c,c".,;" C"~I~

:)uldn' .to:!~b~ctheJ:6.ta'1eoqndright..itdoesn'tYes,' d :' h ';~':' h""c'" .~c e ~r 1.8. a;, uge.;~a;;;;, pg~

" ,., "j"",.o,'.""~"",,,;'.,~""::'";"CCC'"'" .:Qf,"~,pr'~6~r~ation if they di.,",-'l.~c'" "",".

.,... .

\!prday (Finnish hey...thatis really""e 'I'r oul .'~

.. .. ~here

ords:mixed with;English andi~~Q~rdhere"C,\ye :ay scm

the )U1'a~$~Y"~~,"'cOc:..I'." c .~~\~~;If.~~0 to F

i "' rit a'1' ~.i ,.

";"..I;~'o.'..",

O~;~'lQ~1.q; and sa'loJ

~~~@Fpse:~ a body~""' ,~~.~ sound.sId"?"whatiff'::the

roomue....a,.de~dp~t90ni~1sa'rOOmUGf ?or room.:or'd in Fi nniI . 11lh t '1. ., a,

.,:tne"c.~

S 81 e-eping:j'6r'1,".c;,' ~ liviriglroo~'n~te itthey desi~ I: 'RCC coma., , n'i;j~~

room...Ola meanf\'loul.d mean famil~1QL~\'IhateverQ[

;{itchen is call~dtheof!itb1;;~ cours~,just to

\ sitting'"'$~~\':::CdbKih~:,'lace he.herea

istening to someone.. .Ul{G",: ontha~~",;pri~J~~f!iom.c

~

" "':J;~,;ti_~: ,from

c.~c,c-, ",;

:CarT~~g.t;',~~'-.'" ....,v .-gram~Flnlan, ~'t£ Finland. ~ .

wl'shi rig~nh'~'::!.I keep",'"~C~".;~q~'tMgt realtenill,..Ien'o"'" J

not.l1tI'llent ye.re...v:aE as

Finland?nt to 'L!!'fi;..\1,-,gqDid R2 ever

C" ,

not'gun-ho,,;, , ,:lid 1 tha he""c'~~c-yoQi..tha t. ,

ieC OCr

1,~didn't tel,RI --

henail'... .like;at;WQ~'K:n'"abqut a~ything Fin

orthern...like thesetheBe thingE at,. .'

they have, , ...""

fr~ends ~:Q~~m';Jc n .c:r\m ,

~ my~ sc.t"'ri'.;;~'" ".~,,~serninares...

may'kjet"~::J!;'l'~'CiCC' i ~": I " th "r tv",tto n g ... . sa y " ~

".",-Q"",.. .' \.'".-i:;~a.b0 enthusedr'."~~J;+i .t.e

it'£',~t~fact v:henhe ,,'jas re'~*;ttis Eomethin ;~!~~aroun'd h~re ,thki d ,C "' t "' ta ' ':" 1 "'cl::t\~R~"'.k~",.t ~"

e s s ar e g o llD';:: u;;1',PieJJ.OO'9 1%",,~,,~~\)!;,"~: ]I,young~~~the $,'rede s~YOQ~~~

. 'Ji',"eCclaim thatth~;~C.gg~.in Jacks anthe:'}

'1 "iA

::.I~

our Finness~'i"i~rlM9;""

1idetry todovrn on them ouith it...theomethl no ;nbl..

n:)r:! gre'.thiruc that ~~dQ.

Ff'hnie- , h sounding name was nothe f~~'acth~_t;;a~re~

good to

t Finnish tho', ht?cr,~ Your name ~~a R ~'"-' J.

a S'\'.'edish name but'~f~"" ,thRI .. Yes,

said..I: Pr19, ",-tOf'that-,'. , " - au

'2 's ramiIllell I don'. 1

aboutRT 10\'; y... .ifhe't kilo'

"""ci' . "c''{l~~c;;;i;:)'! i gJ. mat e . . ..cany"'",IR2-:...,ce ,

'O" t C 1~~",~ lear;-q... ~¥;"'~

his mother's name.~.d ta~~,.~~~;way,

he? I viaer's i:p.n'tBut then he h~~~~rother',~T~: and si".

hey hac,9lkt E& t, but("\1tell. ;~b.QqCJ t~"~$~ 0 andnji

otIier'sthe:) have taken is~~ 0name :?2 a

mariy'o~t'~6c!f~th :ao d. 'f +9 er,; 1- nc,,!i

h cac -.v"~e-'.';: th CatI, -" ,

"..!"gJ;S

~" ~ 'I "'i k~: " }w" ~

.;,!,,:,F.name...R2"s fattlily"~t'edroCk J~ids erE01'/8.. ..

~~~P~E b;therI1,did marrty:1,..~;~, ~~y, .""' ~c~,. "~ O,',n it'\ t:

, . ,~" "" ~,:I:too, F;~I rememb~r'T'} t.'sj~Vlpa ten and ta,..R2 :~,,~~.~:J~-je

dn't reall'""il'-",,'rL:'J .,,~ ~:'i;;4~f£!;-~M'~hthat keeer sa

,," ." ,en C1 half b~other!~nd sl.~~.er.lil:qfP~~:a aVE

~':i t h~ ~~'\"",Q

.,

l'fu,y .,are to ke lenTl1athe t1~verd- at~l.1.

Ti~ The,nameR2,:

me;~~;r'~;al+y~l!:~~'~"~,~~~j 'orVJegJ.an .rname..or aIt ' a,sc S'!!e C

y name....Scand.ii.navian name. ..80 'af

bE speliedtheJi ~~;,:~'~i

~~;1J~H,~ 'J!aymE

HI very Scandiri&v:!IjaiJj-:'~}~"'-"":;: spelling.Yes,

~if0q~~eans~.flat),'";uytold,meth t it"O~eR2:

ofare naJr,e~~ the:Fi:ri~n, es'i" ~"".o' I 1,,"'".'h~U'~ "

:.(;~~,,&,:;~2~ialmost +,

M'Y::.;j"~:~ ikeburenmaathings like i i]::I:~

133

")'ft,"!~~)i

1J;ar,L.1c."""""'",,percentage them a.. 1 ' a" y"'""'c,~:t;:Ln an :a:!i'!V~

,,;[.;, "I"",c,

of'ea tern

rl1~f~T'""~~~" 1 t f~"",,~:rP:~~, 0 0£;n~''courseSwedis really,;.aHd; . f

ctly16J:~r~-,:(!f~~I+~:t:~Cst ill'I'" lC'.- i '.

~:£~V'" - ,J;.

theret~:J:~"~~that

.., '"

:*~.y~~c@ way.

nnn!~uppdt~fng~QA* never seeyouR2: Like years a[~o,

wa..\! ': th10n. .. ere~a~Swede i

swedels0 Sweden,:t\"~""~'l;\i'1..n~aTh,,- . '"'"" ongdi"11e ,

.,."

Rl: . @Ed 'C' ! " c.. Becan ~fg: ~9,

citizensFinnsalway re

declared ~~q~n~,,~~1.§~ ser indeh ' 'Fr en:Immed: .~~$

~'ifl"'~~~

a EO the i anguageC:J['qt;.. ~ .",)i:;"c:~~t"f";e;d~ lage~~'I talc

media tety..~'~th~a+1", _:"'01";;""0:,- '1~Q~~~~~O c ,~ng.:;~.+i!"' f~',"c6:f,:,ev~, cCgove fit~

". ,secondary,the:C"'OXnii~.,.;,~c.~"';~ ",wedi'sh beand- wa, .

was changec

0 bec ,,' ",..

the langu~eQt]. ",,-'" ,CO;:'

wasg O1J)tI,~,,~Cinanc 'inranguag

in theSwe~~efore e ha 0 le

~

was~hehen 'inn.'fi~cef::;sary. .....,Jaq~~~~~nQOrS

,~g.""""C

chools .'.~;to be taugh~~ :~'irst a:Itg4~ge?l:7"'1'~~;1:~~QT",~t~~f;' arM,,~";C flkZ~0~P;: 0 S de~~":¥:

fh~tr

~

~~t; o_ij;~l:: Yes. ~~~..i1th~ff'e:il,tbulJ1 "be, c, ~:~iey et ' c

...anlife ficR ~O C.

a-f~fel i;tl~fh~ ;e?h'ere it coufd!i:;;',\'r~Ct" :":"".t::11~',~;,'"hEorse...no

:~c~4~~Y~JV

le;per~qd~l~,~ everCae ' ~ c ~ . c.""~

"

u "1'\1)

i "~- ,:: ~~f;anc'C',L~1h9,ve Eome ~~ 1~one

£~'i\t1incthes ta~ est~b'~:r~:4;~i:I::~: §h(theafter durlnof"""

Ile"c" oming.5'c'I':,ft'~ ere~' Finnish Ieven

"~fA",,":~~.:.:.' 'efir~?""Ol.:.i",.""",~,g"",l~:hererou g h,mes~~ 19-AJ

:<;~~~Yes,recent:t;A~ yeajrs

"'"' c~qt~paye corne:~~p,have ~~:ct~want"would'~1'

+'~~ yout:n~m~(f"6c c asi",. !c.c,-"-~nla. awfro.] a.$~

t'o!~;::-~:,g,~~:{t :"bnot wan'

. 'cv~;ij," ~".,-","""'~y fIno II,Theyalfi~'to;'gp back ays

34

fihlandthec. C yi"""'~""'O"'c"'C"a~/"~e;:Jthe;jh ad'",.~~""""""',C;'C".""~.,. c~,t:~yedirJThey saY,tlack.

hey",... "~

back,no';lj,c "c.'f§~flsfied: , b~ [~Qc ,;""C'" 'cO C

Wb~+d;proba1:: y. ,""r 'o"~ "',c

after b~ingi~\t2,y~'Q;~!~ country,)~~;tf ~sat.:i:~'f~~~~yi 9~#~r.("#~y6pdfjj~~iAQ~)ot or themhaverriade'.:~;;;:1;t:'. c,"".'~"."'",4'",~~n;"'r;if t .~,",

,~Y~~f,.,..'++,q ~~y..~abij:~~~J;i"'.,,,~",c~;C ~ ",;o.(; ~LrU ;.

","'\'i""""i~_e: .a:feven up.'~pere,,'c" ,some are still .

everyone

[,fj}~~~d"ba c k" ""'."., .:th'a£they.,""", ,wantfeel 0 nothey still

o'arehe;las 291 yearcome here in H£th~t, "~R2 haveThoseto manan~.ali)'",. ~ l~no'}r ovare.. .thei'ii"'~~~""""',

:J.'i$:;~~~~~be er';!~'l"~~':

t~P~:'~',-have reall "';'!:'i1"'~i\"~""C'~~';;&\' r"'"

;E:~~c~;~.~.g;~~£t~~,:~;3.rdthe~cRT: They. SQ:~~

for themselves hcre.

them?Did,~they..bring'.]a'ibt bfmoney~'wit;;,"~cL!iri

icthe~-

~

~~~ Ic~""~"'.""" C""~.' ~'" '4c "" g'" conom~ '" c~va;J' ;,;6 -.,c~ """""'"'" ,,',.

'call y';~ I..,c, ,.Tlloney.. .US~L:c

",,~1\Cj;, I:f:c';;;;;an~~...,g'~!:~;rc+" :

"m ~H n ~~'A

,~L~~~~!

!l"ij~nd;,;r;§~~l ark.,itchilling to~j;;";:~'1""'C'~\":!:f1'~~yi$" ~re ,-.

.l co

~iI t .t' f ' ht0 oJ. 19 em~;:

sisu...special'~,E)~'1;.7"'~~:~J,~ike~~"'~:~ith~t.' abou Finns,E.I: Yes

sttck:V~."..d$(~!erminatiop, c,oura,ge ,"

'ihnish :,'ord, it mearlS

thatJrdstherlumber :i"'£~~:.";'\::~ l J

~i+9~there's.C.1l'f,1s,;.~~,

;":;~i1f~,;you

you_~c,9?uld pi ck. . . .

Look it up in there..~.~~Engli:sp i;~)t:.lonar't,~"'"" Jacr1rinishCS:h~;lPE!;Note

Fihf~nd therleBut'c~~ ~

l\[iJfJA'--""'" ~ now 1.'r i~""'!~ l".$C [: ""'1~I"- "" '""0" ""',-, ,;'. ~C".,..-"

~: ~f;5*~;j-~telch,,:-rl1odern,'~J*~w

'.' 'c

pe:~ian"'t of ~~~ ~aVI ful ords.. ,ana~~

~t~'e')th~'~ord~ b "" t hF .

.1 Yi',:.. e In~S,ust ta",c.~"~rl~ renica

't:~'iklcri g~ia\,fout'Cc. c ~.c';'",;v.'her e !~;rI1Y:;;~~COU'atom bomb...anaton I~ti(

"C~8 11~"j

I:

R2:

I:

R2:

I:

R2:...

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R2:

What did they do for w".o;;~:.:;... .j~~~,;;;~~7father came to this count ~was he a miner immediately? .

As far as 1 know he was a min~r all of the time heworkedin. .

different mines of coursel:Btit were they always in tbis city? !I

Well, they lived in Palmer I

hlmer?Palmer and here, that is all that I remember.

Do you know why he left lfalmer to ccme here? Or was it the other way!I

around? !. I

Ithirik they lived here first and then they went to Pa.lmer, maybe the~I

couldnrt get a place to live i

IWhenR2's mother came from .Finland this is where-she lived ..in NationalI

Mine i

!

I: In this house? !

IR1& 2: No notinthis house ~. !

R1: In the location and then I think at some time later they moved to :Pa.l~erI

but they came b8.ck to Natio~l Mine and it was still later that t

rinall~bought this place.

1: The whole time that they were moving aroundt was it with the ideathey were looking for a piece of property? '

IR2: It could have been .I

R1: It co¥d have been that he went to wprkat the Cascade Mine inPalme~~...I

R2: No. I don't think he ever he must have worked there I

\.tR1: The only reason that they moved in the old days was that transportati n

was hot,'at\all what 'it is now... .;you had to live close to yourwork

R2:I:

so that nnlst have been the reason '?:" t :

Idonft think they lived there very long it was only monthst;:t'i~~ ~nid he live on a farm? ~,(':i,: ~

R1:

I:

No, justina location...this is the first farm they lived on

1DO y~ kriowOffh~d, is there any time that he lived in a house bef e

he got to the fa:rm that maybe he had a milk cow tied~behind They lived in a little house across from the old post office ther was

!a house across the~e between there and the road and the tracks an re

.was no place there that they could have kept a coworanyth1ng, that Ii

know of therewas no room there fora barn or anything so l'aon't think

:}Q'

R2:is in the National

t.hey ever had a cowtl'~~~e'.',"

"Note" The old post offic4Mine ,.location.

Was he an underground miner or a surface miner?I:

R2:

I:

Underground. :1.; '"j':c' C;c,

Do you happen much he made?.. .like per hO~~:;~~t~'~r?' !day. 'j i

"f'No, a dollar or so a day to begin with, I don't think it wasJmlch

more.. .. well maybe the miners made a little bit more but the labor:wasn't rmlch more than a dollar a day. !

This book that I have been reading tells about the mines up in the~e-'~ ' 1 r

w~enaw l-",nJ.nsu a area ,.. i,That is the copper mines :

R2:

I:

R1:Yes,e.nd they had numerous problems we are talki~ in the area of

1885 and 1905 and in 1905 they had been on strike for 6 days d. c

they nanaged to cut their tinledown by two hours so they were only ork-.

ing ten hours a day instead of twelve and they were gettipg a $1.60 a

;" ':;ccday.~. ;.,;,cc.. '01-. ,;,Now...IthJ.nk that was {;.ood pay, that was apout the best pay.'.

. 'And they worked SJ.X days a week " ,. I~~yworked six days a week and they worked for $1,;60 a day but somrhow

.they were confJ.ned tD twenty days a month... ,I

Nottpewhole six days because I remember that Saturday was alwaysr'

.

church day .

But you weren't there in 1885 ;'c

.. IOhwell, maybe than but ! remember when my dad was working in t ~e mine

there was always a short shift on Saturday and they used to come hcjme..I

it they were night shift they would come home at midnight I .,. . i

That would be m the late teens and the early twentJ.es, that you a~e

R2:

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R2:

R1 :

R2:

R 1:

R2:

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remembering._.

They used to call it the SIm.ll shift

Did your mother work?

No, she worked at home

R1!

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R1 :

'iSee, she came t~t~is country, they had been married in Finland ant she

came to this country with a child...

Two years after. ..right? ,c"iCcC:.~:

Yes. and she had a child so it was prettyh~:.forher' to

.'1~b'"' i;'

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R2:

About eve~twoyears Ii

Yes, hems the list th~re' f

c ,WhatI~sc~iousabout was, maybe she didn't have a job out of the

house but did she take in washing and ironing or something like that?. '

No,no she never worked, she never had t1me for that because we alway

had cows and that here that she had to take care of.

See, he was the first one born here, they moved, and he doesn't re-

member the time before he moved here.

R2:

R1 :

I:

T never heam them say or anythi~~.

He remembers how it was here..

you say she didn' twork but at the time ,there was a sauna, did she hay.

. .anythJ.ng to do with that?

R1:

Ri;

R2:

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R1 :

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R2:

R1 :

Here, yes ~ I

She collected the money, they al~ys paid her ;'.1c:~~

The boys and the father made the woOd and you are the one that

The boys made the wood ...

Dh yes, your father was too busy, the boys made :the wood and ke

sauna going who built it?

Mydadbuiltit...he built it before my time, I can't remember

was built at all.~Did she do any clean up or anything like that in there?

{)ti, yes, but still this is only a once a week deal.:

YoU: mea;n you co\ildn't come and take a sauna just any time you wanted ta?,:

.It was only the boys started it up in the morning and beginni '

saturday afternoon all the way into tne evening, people could come. ,2"":;'I~

At that time was your dad still working in the mine and workingqer to&~,c~

Yes, that was rough.

There are so na.ny ~'innish men here and in the Copper Country too,:t .first chance they had they would buy land in order tofe.rmand grow their

~ food, have their own cows and still keep working in the mines. So:that w<>rk usually fell on the woman of the house and the children, e

bulk o.f the farm work .fell on the children. '

tDid your mother do that too, like milk the cows, hel~"With cutting' ay

arldail those kinds of things?, i '

I:

c.., cR1~: Yes;a.11 of trose thingf3, making hay c.cc, : ,,~

R1iThai's stand~rdfortheoldFinnish women

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R2:

R2:

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She really did work.. ~~~c.c~' ; :[Yes, having such a la~ge family too.'..th~ Finnish men did not milk co~s

,

that was an absolute no-no! !

i

That's the question I wanted to ask what did they consider women'l~work and what was considered man's work women's wort was defin~teli

milking the cows Milking the cows and taking care of the milk, the creRm and the butt

,Of course, 'tlehelped, we hadto)earn to milk too, you kno'tl.

'lben in your generation it wasno;longer considered just men's work.. .'but:the old t).Ille FJ.nn would not touch and that was true of all

;,old time European men, they tho~ht it was just beneath their di~t

,

in Finlam it was like that too, the women eyenin the large~ai.'

There were e:xceptionsto it too, because these pe9plewho kept lots

cows like tehoradozen had tomilk especially:ii.f they didn't h ve

any kids. .And especially if the dairy farm was tHeir living, then the men woUl J:

: '~';'. '

then it was considered a man's work if his living was dependenton:~ .cc;":tc,

When your dad, you know being on the ram, he had fanning rood, ~a,Y,"~~'c;.had cows that he kept, they were dairy cattle at that tJ.me,or beef?

,

I.Yes, they were just dairy cattle but we always butchered the s'.

:theb11lls but a

2:

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R2:

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And calves too yes, and calves Chickens?

Yes, we had some chickens nottoo:-- .-

you

many.?them for eg~.I:

R2:

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[us 11~~Did you eat the chickens or did

Well. we did both. we ate th~m.

Well. he had th~ sauna too. so it appears that there was-a number o£ sources

of revenue that he had going on at the time. How was your family c

~ you above the middle or r guess. but to me I never considered my-

R2:

sidered economically? wer1..

No, we were in the poor cl~ss."

self poor, I thou~t

R1: EVe'):"yone was kir:ld of in the same boat, they alJ. had large families, l the

men were doinp:. the same type of work and everyone was pretty welL o~ the

142

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same level You 'WoUld never see anyth£ng any better..

No way to compare it

R2:

R1 :

No But It U go back to this revenU9... .there was no .:

no revenue from the eggs, very little eggs ~old,

was consumed at home ~ 1 she might be able to eel

revenue from the milk

w1th a big family it)

1 a pound of butter nO\tnC

but that wa Itheabout it noand then

chickens.

or was tha"t

)r how about dic

strictly home?

your lathe!:

income from her cows or herour family sell potatoeJ '

R2:

1 :

Once in a while, if there was a surplus But the potatoes again weren't raised for thE

purpose ot selling, theysell a few buJ-were just

hels...:;oDd ccase Y' n~~ A. ,p you were Able t

1: That is an intere8ting point, the actual farming that went on was not

done for the purpose of selling, regardless of how large the farm was, i'

was done and expanded on the basis of the family size.

R1 : Yes.

R1 :

four buShels.

That wasn't too lorli

%at is almost 40 YE,

waking forward..'

R2: go ago, that was about 1938

R1:

I:

,rs ago ha..ha...t.; III joking back it seemsit seem. Iik a. Ion

R1:

like yesterday Yes, especially for old timers One of the things I am curiotm about is .let's just

body did take money for picking

beable to buy potatoes with it?

plus potatoes Yes, this here what you are

dad' e.. - .

:1ssume that someI:

otatoes or they had money, would th~y.

I mean there were people that had s!~

R2: talking about i when I _was 'arming, not my)nthisplace, I wasn t t farming just

.'c " II was making som~ money

R1z

to keep nw- family fed. I was sellit:tg milk ~nd eggs iI

We didn't nake it cle?r to you but H2 didn't work out t:lntil 20 year~ after. I.

w~ were married .all those years When oar girls were growing up we

:14"3

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made ourll'Ving on this farm Your family wassmaner~'that ap~rently was a

:Yes, but we sold milk from door to door, and the eggs from door to

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R1 :

R1 :

d 'oor... .c;'

c cHow did ~udeliYerthem in a delivery truck?

I

No,justalittleold car iI

~It started off with a little old Overland Overland truck .,

Yes,then we had a Model A That was an,~ncient truck at that time even what year did we eta t?

"C

'D1~~~,r

..,R11

Thirty-eight ;;r~i;, ,~~i""

Thirty-eight we started delivering 7~~~';:,"

Youw~re delivering here in National Mine in a fewplac~s, but youdi"

startdelivering but you really went out aM got yourself a bun

of customers all the way to Junction, I guess before ~e~Iboughtand oldModeIA then I bought a 1931 Chevrolet,

know one of them with a hump intheback ~they were just cars we"""

delivered with, that's all :

We bought a refrigerator in 1940 because we went into it in a little

btgg-erway I suppose it wasi;1940 that you started your deitv

in the Junctionlocation and we still have the same refri~rat r,':

"it 'purrs away, it looks terrible Well, we were married in 1935..~" I

Attbattime was there any other work that was considered justwomen.s ,work?

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futside of what is considered woments work now? ."

Yes, Lmeanwould the m:1.n ever stoop as low as washing the di~hes?

liT" ._,,~..~ "rR1 :

I:

R2:

R1 :

I:R1:

"ing

" '"~R2:;i"~;~'R1 -'.

J.,V, l.UJ.llCC'-.L'-L~"' Even today, hUh? ha.ha...

Oh, my dad used 'to hold the lantern while my mother split the w

Now that is an old fable, don't believe that, that is just a fi

Like jumping inthe snow after a sauna?

Well that has been done, but his has never been done. Tho' one., .,

claimed this {s what anotherrtin told him, If1 help my wife," this ma,

said, "I hold the lantern while she splits the wood." So he is appl

. .1ttohJ.s dad and mother now. ,

Nb,he didn't do that butlhadnever seen him wash dishe~tho'.

The housework and~everyday things to do with the cows .a?d the)milki

~44

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and that,exc~ of. course c the hay making, was done by the man every- II

~ '.c:~

would help and get intp;th~act, 1,~~~s". o:ii~; IWas there any ~ork that was beyond a woman that a 'man wo,uld think tha1

R2:

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a woman just could not do? I C l,~ c»:1, not too much, I'll tell you in Finland when theyu.qedtohire yo g

people to come tow~rk,.menand women were ou~ lnthe:1,ields working

together, th~t wa;3 rn F.1.nland, 1. am not certa1.n abo~,~ here. !

Yes, it used to be here too. .-"The woman was able to except digging ditches ' ,c,c

: ,"",'oJ'

~ts of times we had some of the ne i"ghb or women would come to here;tq'

..help us when us k1.ds were small :: :

Like 1. told you, in Finland they were forever ditchingbecauseit~as,

so soggy-the ground, each field had to be ditche~ a.nd they would"'

some of that here in the swampy lands. And I guess here they did not., ,

expect a woman to go and digadftch but in Finland the women did. I

Finland the 'Women did help digtheditches but here the womennev r:; ,did that, or chop wood atall,tn~ywourdnot outside of yourjo e

about the lantern, the women did not have anythi~ to do with getting the

wood supply andof course, that was the main source of heat..,.the

were very few fireplaces to give you light from wood How old is this house? a hundred years old?

Ql, more than that ; .

And no f1.replace .1.n here ,c': ..;

No; no fireplace in here. I know in Finland all of tc

places ,takka was the~'j.nnish word lor.. f¥e~+ace, it

above it. c c

, ,

They used to cook on them. Wasn't it built up off the ;'.CYes, some of themwere they were built almost sep C

~of the house the women that came from }I'inland, t

c '

that they hail to learn was how to cook on an American

women found it hard ,to work with Was that a status symbol?

"Well, no it was the standard thing, it was very stand

.c.

range in America was a.qtandard thing therewas :~:~,

places that they used for cooking in'b'inlandl .it ~,c

placecook!ng in Firiland and they were not used y',' .' . ,:

the earlierimmi~nts ,

c~.,c..1;A~i.!Jt~,

cDid ~ur da<'i everwan~toput a fireplace in?

! c '".I:

R1 :

I:

I:R?!

No. o. o. . . . .. . . . . cc:';o't';~~:,.~'c

IHe won't have one I have fO~ years, he says hec

won't have one in his house c..';'j"c":'!::"Wh .. th t? " ...)Cc'

Y 1S a. p':;' !

He says it takes all of the heat up he doesn't know that~ ,

dampers you. can colse Guys that haVRhad them told me that How did Santa Claus get in?

c

I don't know he ame do\m the chimney...but that's what we us,. . '

derhbw:could he fit through that little hole - - there was this little ch

ourse before..Protestantism, well

; is very well kept up, they have' -

R1 : Remember I told you that in It'inland

was bUilt irttheearly 1300's, of c

is the picture' of that church it

ial ~op1.e tofu it "Note" She is showinfi: more

FPictures..rnanyor Ola. cnurcn~s ill J.n.!ana...i

What is that, is that cedar on the front?

I no,it isn't metal it is'"tain what wood it would be ;'

Looks like cedar tho' doesn't it?

The stain...this is the picture of the town and here.+l-.~+ ..,..."i,,~+...l ,,\" \"+ +\"0-..0 +h,~ ;~ thp. ~

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R1 : wood shin~lebut~':I~don' t know for cher-I

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:'.1.1 : s the church, r is

"U""" a.Jl """U" , w'-'--,. "'-'-5" u u,.',~v u,.~~ -~~..- place where the chur h.-' . .)oats used to comealong all along that rl.ver they woUld pl.ck,up he

church goers in that huge boat well,they would hold about 24 pe pIe.

you lmow Are they recent?:

!

Yes, these arer~ceht

1

1:

R1 : when I was in Finla~d

They look like neat neat areas, don't they Yes,~,i.sis the bigchurch This is a modern day picture 0

thtl O ""o ld th O' t d f o t th t thecas e J.nl'J.nan J.S 1.S a pos car 0 1. a my mo er

.. I. 0 o 0

bought J.n 1912:or 1913...of the same area all thA buJ.ld1.ng g J.ng

on the1'ein that time ,

Why would there be alot of building going on thereirithat'period?)

In 1912 or 1913? !, 1 '.

:sthatwhen they were unde:;~ssian control.. .wasi t Russian "b,!ild 0 g?,

Yes. well. it was a seacoast town ~..(looking for the pos caro)

T...1'11!

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146

R1 : ,r grew up - -- --- . !lPokslikea Mopp~sh dome ;',;. ',,::,

IWell that is aitttssian Orthodox type of thisc;, [:;~j!:f':'."

picture of that castle . . do yoU:: know that in Fin:nish" the word';'; :,{C;;;i..f ;c,;,:",,;,

Lirinameans'castle, jailor fort~~.~...it means anytigt1t~hclbBtire.... ... ':C;'c;i" :

Fort;1.'J.catJ.on ";,'"'~.' ; , . c'Orf()rt really where you could~.,';arrl see and inca~~~' tr~uble to

I:

Here is where my moth

Tht thl .I.a one ere a mOSt

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get out of danger Aren't there people with that same name? ,

jOhyes, Linna Pastor Linna in Crystal Fa!ls it means mostly

. :".

castle but it can also mf'!an jail and it can also mean fort where

tt dyou are pro ec e .(

, .'

If you heai'd a Finnish name and it was Linnamaki and Ma.ki isachi;,

right?

I:

Yes, that would be a castle hill then or fort hill l haven't:

hea~ tha't name but it is possible yo;kno'tl a very famous

rFinnish architect, his name is fjlmer Aalto, designed this church and; i

it:i;scalledthe Cross of the Plains andthat is the outside view~.: I

..and this is the inside view i~!! """

fInteresting What is different in thatPict~e?...~.i;~ee:tht

the prayer books are in the front of the church In stead of the back... I never even thought..'c

-

Ifront instead j

! -

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)f that people gotocjt~R1:

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1:R1:

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y'ou knowmchurches, traditionally inthesta;t~s,"~~a...~rt of the job f~ ., ~,' "" ". C';c' .. " ' c

the ushers is to move the pi"ayer books tothe'f~on~:~~'.ent1ce people 0,

move up to the front and here they are all visible in the front...; ; ';'..

Maybe the ushers bro~ht them in the front too ha..ha :,.:,, , '" "Nth ' t tt d t -,' 0, ey are JUS sca; ere ou .',"'!:'.,\;"

" ""'1";'

Yes, and the s~me Elmer Aalto des,igned the town, the town.hali;':.~:a.;.. .. ..

var1.OUS other OU1.1d1ngs :"-\t":;"",~r;,'r1;;,,,, :" c:.

And is he an architect a ~'innish one...? ;;,; .'{, lj;? ,ciii

A very£amous one andth1s is R2's favorite area~ How old is this picture? "

Oh, I~ould say it is inthei~~'t'twenty years and a friend of ~I

cousirisin Sweden gave me th~t can you believ'e that I was viditing. . . ,

jmy couSJ.n J.n Sweden and her£r1end came down .to meet us andwe'were alk-

ing about where R2's folks were from and she said Mait a minute and he,

~';J,;4~

R1 :

R2:

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I ..R1 :

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R2:

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Yes . '0

And the keya has to f3.t the lock too ", '" c:" . :

Yes. both of them would have had to have the cross and whet;

there was some sort of security by having a lock and a cross

Yes. it was blessed This cross is blessed?

.,;:1 am certain of that becaUSE:! I ,am certai~ that was the inte

cor th~cross was a blessing and a protection and likes

'that: if somebody could come back from that year, two hundre

and they would come back now and see how religion is no lon.

part of our .life~ they wouldn1 t say anything about our a

every~i!Jgle facet of their life was touched by religion. l

..

Was that that true of life here on the farm too?

Well, aiready it was waning somewh8.t then...it was alrea

1900... ;..' '"., ".c,

We were ChrlstJ.ans alrlght, but. 1 t was a ":~;:C?,;:;~'.i'.c", ':

In Finland the only recomB that were kept were kept by the churchesc .' ". ;

c your birth and your chrlsten:Lng date were there '

! It was like the head of your home ".'

Yes, it was the ba.se of everyactivity there were'not aI\ycivil

recordskept the church had kept records for oh hundreda of ye

before the civil officials started keeping them ~.and do I not b.,

lieve that half of the country people of Finland would have lea~ned to

read if it wasn't that they had to pass their confirmation lesson . ,,- c ~

at the time wnen my mother was young they dian6t~have.'requir~d sch ol~ng'[

youcould take it or leave it it wa.s~oonafter ,that tho' hat

it was no longer voluntary ,your attendence was required butwh my,.mother was young she said itw~s up to the individual if. they wante

" .togo,or not she wouldnttgo to school shewas a~mart lady ally,

,.I don~tunderstand why she didn'twci.nt to, but she would not go to 001. 'c '

shelearned to read and write very well but that was because sh ad,to;.i~in order to be coririrmed she had t6beable to-read the catech sm

. .andableto+ead the B1.ble oh, they ,had to pass a real strJ.ct teit Ho~i~it the two got t{)gether?...the two of you i

W~n1etso~ewhere along the way I came to Nc1.tional Mine bec~~se mrI:

R1 :

Mother lere... .

150

1e'~se4to come by the ,stor~R1:

I:

every day.'111e old store over there?

YesThe only-thing remember about Finland is the way, they made theirha

rbarns not SO much on this place, but even down by the Powder Mill

location every field had a hay loft where they stored their haY...I~

They were left open so that the air could circulate a picture on a scrap of paper.

"Note" He draws- . fThey were built this way, they were narrow down here.. ...Dothe back

were stmight but the sides were l..ikethat. ~ ..:hat is t e

..?nly thing that I know of that came thru as far as thebul.ldJ.ng was on-;

jcemed.

I.thi~most of the Finnish people wd.nted to become Americanized as oonII

as possi.ble.. ..they wa.nted to follow the American customs. l

Was there any group activities outside of the church?You mean for us kids or for the~o~ upstoo?WeU:..not .

..' ,; );,\'. \Mi he ' ':ne re CCj

-. -- ~ -

R2:

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R2:

R1 : If 11 tell you what was a group activity for the Finns,.c~.a ~al big Cl lebrati c., was Midsummers Day on the 24th of June it was he;l~.;..th~t.'isthe ,

" "Finnish Midsummers Day.. .JUhannus is how you say i t.~.~: ':

,c, .We celebrated John the Bapt:i"s~~p~?-rth ... ~!:~lf:J;';1~:...:~

Yes, J..t was hJ..s day " ,"

..John the Baptist, h1ili?

Here they called it Midsummers Day ,

Well, it is only two or three days after the Midsummers day,

wasoh,the biggest picnic, and the bands it was reall~a Finnish "."

get-together to ~d all Finnish gf:!ttogf:!thers really acelebrat'ng

a.nd!ittle by little it has just gone by the bOa~~ and i t.is n~;~ld :': onger one.

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R2:

R1 :

R2: We used tq have

house is there

'urpicnicuP there doyou know where Trebilcock~'

w~s a stand up there like a bandstand and we usJd~

Jto situpinthere..artd thenther~ was tables they were there all the

time...biglongtablesahd they had an old stove sitting up there... "

'i~",~5?;

What do you want it is not going to bother us one bit..;.there is

one member of m'J and aunts thCj,t some of

thei~children or wife or somebody did not die of tuberculois she was

always called Sofia but her Chris~iam MIlle was Alma Josephenia, but s

was always called Sofia so these are the twins here she was

widowed quiteyoung sheln:i.de her livi~ by setting:l,1p a bakery...s e

was always called Tilda but of course Matilda is Tilda sh, ,..

never told m~ why she fell away from the church no specific reas.'

but still...still she expected me to live by the rUles and she did to.., ;

but I ~es.swhat you learn at your mothers'"knee kind of stays with,

f 'youorever ; i."iA~.i~f;ii4".'assch~olirig, did she insist thai:"' you went t6ii:sch?O"6~?'",fc..' 'i;(J::,j,);;",~t~!ii?j:;iI:

R1:

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, h~J, yes, very muc so c

you started a regular , i;,

I 'started a regu+ar kindergarten and I graduated it was quite a g eat. ;

hardship for .herto {:;f!tme all the way thru high school, it would ha. ::'

been easier for her to tell me to quJ.tscho~l and~t pay but sh

.. .. . .' Co ..,.sacrJ.fJ.ce so tha.tlcould (!;<?thru hJ.gh school ':

Do youknowaboutR2's family?"" ...

Well, only the youngest children g;r-aduated from J.sc 00.

am Martha I am mot quite sure yet when we talked about your mot

andshe was here ,'llmost ten years, rigt)t~ Okay, then

to Finland for a year !'J.ndthen she came back, okay she..

two.~arsafter she c.,~me back, okay.. .then her and her husband0' :They did stay in the east for a couple of years, I mean they were bo h,

livi~gout east ,-it the time they were married 'B\ithtsbrotherpromised him a job in logging and then your mother w nt

,. ,

,back ~eyboth came back to Wakefield, in f;J.ct because my fathers'.brothe

two of them were living in Wakefield and they came and I do not re-

.member how long 1t would hclve been that my mother st.ayed here and he ped

at the logging camp. She helped her sister-in-law to cook and clean for!:,

the men and everything and she helped her sister-in-law the rothers...

wereso~of in a partnership but what happened and exactly why

just carted me off back here again to New. Hampshire I

:'153C"

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,Okay.: now I gqtthat p£cirt Qut I am not sure how you got ba,;""c\,":-'.C;"'"" c

MY dad followed her back there and then ~they finally decid

and my father stayed out eastb\1t then when I was seven ye

.. ..mother dec1ded thatworki!'\g' in th~textile mills was just

for her and she came back to Michigan wewere here when

two, she left from Wakefield and went out east f!1Y fath

her..:...she stayed out in Vermont and my mother stayed out

few years too, but then when I was just about seven we lef

and came to Mich1ganagain.~...and then she went backlnto

families and ooing a housekeeper or a Mother's helper " ~

Did she have the job setup before she got here?

No...wa1t a minute that!s wrong...she did have the job before she(

left it.was a widowed.manwith severalchild;en and she was'ab~e

to find th1s work thru a newspaper ad I

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. c ;'.!"

3-d ve rtJ.sed,.:out.f~9nLthea widowed man would 'laveNow this is unlikely thatI:

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east coast II

0 iIt ~s in a Finmshnewspaper I

CO

1Y?U d9ntt think it was one thrit somebody sent her? ,

it is~ssible, ftcould h'::l.ve been... .the~e were several }'innish New:-; "'.

papers being pri~ted in the Hancock area arid I do think that the ~'1. s,,'BUbscrib~d to all the ~'innish papers they possibly could bigrea ers

:c ,you know .it is possible that this ma~G,ould hcl.veoadverti~ed ou in:

'" cC 'c ! '"'

the Finriishpapers outinM::l.ssachusetts but;"still think the foca.l lace;,, c ',:

of Finmshnewspapers being published was in the Copper Country area.. ::'," c ;:'.~~('.c;.

and Ithinkth.?:-t an the It'innish people in the United States subscri ed:9o~~

those papers.. .

Well it is not likelyot unlikely I mean..because there was more FJ.

here because of the mining companies it is just funny :t;hat:as ha

8B it was for the people here that he would ha.v~ found someone

around here that would have rilled the position, I mean theyob

viosly they had to communiat~pyiette~, right? . l

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R1 : Yes :,c;;:"c:,~~:..

There were no telephones~ight?I:

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I: pen bYt the time Ihe hCi.d written him and shehfd

ra.~me'nt~ to get out thei~" it~ad;:nehad t

N0 So the job was held

~

ahswer~d and thens ~ke

to have been ~everal months. . . . . . . .

154'

~.t;"i,,"',' .- c\" c .. ,

.l'~h.irtk she!irst wrote at Chr1.stinas tim~,~nd;1t.. '.,("'" !,': .; ," '" t

wasthe!ollowing !o1a.y,,~t~~~.',wefinarly came .'.when school~as over~..~ , .. " i

rwasalways ;~...I Wasirithejirst grade soshecdidn'twant~01, , ",;" ;~" ':':' ;':" .[

leave until school was out. BUt this I have to te1.1yo~now.~...my:{'.. ",."..,.,...""1,, 1 .'

'Moth~~'~~~~~ver, ~a tisfied.':.'~~~{have liv~d..'" 'c. '.. c'" f'

;:th1splacethat,she came to work forth1s family. ...we,sta;yedt~ere'M",!!;..i'c"I" "c",;c'";iC:;"""'c~'.::!.

tiL\theend of September, Ithti1k, and then she high-tai1.edoff~ t,O,Mi I'nn-

! '.i:'c" :c:.' ':.';\,!.esota,'but,she didn't have a job in Minnesota, she d1dhave,ir1eJ'l~S iJ.n,

" ,!"." ',,1..J.1innesotaand we went and we moved in wif~these'o~dfriends u~til:s~e

foundacJ~b.. ..a.similar jC?p'. ... .takfug 'care ?f a"faml1y..~... wh~r~j~he;:-": ,'e' c..' ': '... i .. 0.'

mother had died.. then af:t.ercthat we were living-with a 'family tHat,~,~; , .' '"" "" I ... "the motherwa,s living but.. she had justtioo many children,t6 c6ntEirid{t' 0":

"":(,:..:';'~.'.c:.r !~o mym?ther worked,took care:ofthechildrenand,.'relped. _.,~.thJ.S;~~~ the

; '. ~ ;: ;:! ckindp.("c;things she did all the years I was growingup..' butneve~.. ;";;:!:: :,..".,.' ;i f~taY~ngV~ry".long in; one place.. ..always lQOking.~~.'~'. '.1 stil;1 don',! ,? ,,; , : i ~ ,', Ikno~..What she:was locking o~'hoping tofind ~ittook me twe!1t~

;J::

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the .first grad4~:tbru th ~ ,efgh thgrade. ~.~ W~n ty ~i::,'1i],: C 'Cc !.'c.., , " c'..' . c .~;;i

'differentsch6~1f1I~atterlded but only two hignschools. ..~she inal,lY'J~!,, ,;,;.. ",... ',.;:;1 :c;'j'~:;'t,

s~tt1.ed enough so that I didn t have to be '~';';'::",;..;~:' .'. ,-? ': ; "':',': '~~';,;)~:~:

~he never d1.d ~ema~., "." I ,~,,~,c" '.' ,. : ",A'c

She ~rried brieflYcwhenrwas already:manied she married a, .. .,..~.~t!;, ,,'. " . .. c ? ,.. ,," :,,;',;:

Butno:tdur1.ng that perJ.od ;:- ." ',; '" ;;~',';" ".',': I', y":;',.}No, not during that ~riod, and she didri' tgetalongwi th him ,ei the . ..~.~:::

:"c' \f-! : ,""'. ..,',!1;:t1,:.)donttkrlow. .~... .~he almost alw.aYs fo~herjobs thru ~~~~ er:;!\l":\:d'

;,° ' ,. c, .' c.-.'!'MS.'::: And ~he kept changing freshman and sophomore yearsin~:E en, '~c,',:

" ';'cc;; ::,,: ';";::"Michi~ and the junior and senior years in Mass highschool.:'i:';';' !:'",.

. ,; , , iAnd \,this"is ,primarily simply because your mother ...""~ ',' , ;" 1

I

Yes, 'she jUst moved around so much .my father used:tocwri te to mk :and he would write to me ~etty often he never ~ent me money.l.. .'but'

,

hewoulasend me clothes, and my mother~sed tosay,:'Oh, WhY~~'tlhe ~end,some money". r.,... .when she divorced him~hedid??t ask for any'chilLd

support.. .. .which she should have dorie.~~e..bu~ Bh~,wa.~lt~6 pro~d...l..1 ,

, ',.; 'I"

am strong and young and I can take care ,of one ch~ld, y~u know.~~~.i.. ..He

said, "What's the matter with that mother of yours, she is hauling ;you: ' .'c

~ouridlike a Salvation Army" .and was my mother mad, pf c,ourse she,; "'... '1~ead thelette';;s,'he would send to me, I was'justa'little bit~fakid ";

: ',. !

157

keeperwas$25.00a.morith.",.,,'.,,- ..

h~":'bestshehatl:jiever made?C 'O..."co~: Thatvras

, .reraembertha tco

That was the p~stth~;R~~ she made was"-1°"""""":],f'ever,. --,ct- "

it included room and boai:'dij.1pr'J2~t:dd':,' Cth: f';!u'r's~.'i:):;.(~,c,a".wop ; 9 ~,cq9,"'."",c'

c .. c, Cc

bpthofi~S~t h t ' I ' ij '0 ',"'" '. C a "' '. ".,

a." . . '., ,',~~ink:Yle'.\have ansvlereqrl1oI: ~¥,

to...ust wantyo

,yUncle,:victor.. . aboutvlhen *e;cT

...

rote about~ .. ~

iRL 'Q'~'J!""",.",c,c

,;;+",J:Q~ur~

"' ~~, """" c 'c

r hat:;'~~q:o~c f\ :C""I'..c"ce"1;rFc"¥," '."":"'A

ViQrK:h~:\!,~~d1an\jlstates,c~e.to the Unitec

:W{~n't'ba6k iihdheestablished;;an rnnfot, ..,

," ,'.'Jc,(\!

r~.i~l~~q.'i. t..t..."-~JJl.,.,

seen P~!:9J.t;Hre's,,6t.];~g place..,..Ia very handsome 1o,

alreac.y married when'.he ca~e her~,~f~H;tt~"iiC'~"~ I ';l t ,;;1 ' h;J;.",c~.- j LJ; nit e wa, -c . ".."

ihstea "OJ. ~f$;]I~ily'fIH~re vii th thaf';:',mone:~~~.'.",~:i"c"'."c", "ccx,;~

hegettiri

went back ~~-I~m~ahd ~nd..r{~gp!f;:."k#ow'~'~)I' i ~~: th ~"~!'i:i ,y},y!as e ge~I.'

~~it'be~aueeof the war,t9reralde p ression 0 what,

#"l~s's'~'t~a;!;t~se'~1fi~~+""'Tt"".c:£~.'!i'm~st'i~~}kel ~ because of the war..~he 1!1,~

of the Vlar there waf:r~4~~~~:fik,"" xf"~C,~J.\

",..

w~8becaur::e uS:ctt:~~p

travelin g rA;~:,-o)1i.c,~ng the v/arc ,," "cpii,c~pp here at thefarm what {Tou

..: . , f,,;!~ ,r;;~~.St$eei f v. can

can remember?jCcC'

ere~~.IhavE;RC I ;1 ~1.

c ,.

'.:' Ih ' twe.~.a,vn been 1 ybee n'her e:~inc~V';ell ,- ~.,

Lmarrl.~~ ;",!C" t.c, 4~ugf?:~'.'~.:e years a~~..:,[~:~~well its ove~'.,:th~t~~...

almost 42 years

{fe startingtQut ere?How was

~

"Rr;~.' . JJiell, w~?really that was

1935.:~~. reall y d~:e:n~ide p re seiGn.c c ,',,",'K;} "

I: What v.Jas h~~jJ:doiHii:j~

)1~59c,",

ay. . . . and." ".'Co'., ,r~~lT~ heJripullf~nto:'i;tne~ ~"'~". '"" 5:0h1

+-,c~~,lOV1...he

~~~;~f.to'pl.1owfi~~tfurroughs, he0 the 'ends 'of the10\;:;;' get

far; over.

b~cK~~'cfi!~1~CalkA kk .,

~U~

farmWe'reontb~ her po',1,

q,filicturestd~n:~;~",.f,~tart:n_owrngsticl{ to, that... . .lrowR2:

onguei..C an keep qPfa; ~ tcr,than~:'I'Cp~: DinglinctNdii..~ th ' .t.~ 1-

-'

h,o;advantage"becausec:, , :that reall 'Ti~s"Jl!".o'C~t~¥\;;:[~~b~~Y+ilic

V:'"C'~;;;p;:('~'"4~ n.'~e,~c ~";;.-.;

'..'""" .'~c'c' t

"t ,""!ii~:I:-,""'1t"c7~ h" e"'~ ~'\:f~' :(c:1;; de~,'"\;~ancJtt" :.LrJ,J~!-I;../,

C" ~~,.,.t~'c.!~li".;-",',~'" c,"',,-,),f~~~~'ir,

most ;"~'."CC"~W'eO~;l&:;~'c}:~ tonguE oe~

~':""

M~..~~

:~""~.;i.c~\:J~~;,-ell

';;'!;"~""'H'P1::cO";~1t is :cU:)bviou gan

:i':W"",Y;:i~P;'

"'",'\f;Q~

c ,ccc.""

before ;;~~vou leftcc'"

far ~ hile

h l ~.J

~'... No, reoI:{came0n ,'~

JO~had:;';;i':jfHli f!;htfarm. . . . I;t'K~! fOau al\'la s onere

betv-reen... .

d,not after we re marri!i:i 2 :.

~,'~ No,T'T'. d -,;c~;e maL - le '.,~..but bero}Jo,1: e rou

. 'It'111.:J;n;, pn the Cor er I'Iine,ht 2 monthsYes, IR2 ;

c ~

CountryCopper

ere.?go twhy 'did"

~.;Ii at

edhere ther~body unemp,T,o .~

, , ..,

t:?2:~,because e..,er~

around here mysister cla'd~~~,ffj6mc C;", 0...,b~~I~~~)qt~'{.""vias a ,~"+~~M;g:&~1::;J:tS

e re..int~~p~'~m v:eived andlivedup:the see,'8

.went to bo hou~~,Jp\iet

h ?

Jay er.tocI'-" ~'~

h ~+ 1. t"'-..it but I forget i':asfor'h"'C..." j.~~}'pa~d he rYes,~2:

too?c'

tbere~"}~" ,,-,~n~,ph'~Was Erkki :iP~ ~:p:RI\ orkin

~;,R2, Yes...

113

picked a place with a

.r choice, why didn't th~y..

think 'that ,they had their chQic,t.1\. '1 . ~ .",.ere. .'.. ..

. . " .. ...

In this area there was at that time. 1 know there is not. now

but at that time there was at least even :;re~n :reek

2: Where is there a place out Gree;n Creek..;..a farm that has running w~ter,

through it? ':r'},ere isn't, there are very few most of those rivers are" 'I

in those swamps and between the hills and there are no farms around tthem

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or nothing - '"

Were there any other groups ! hear alot about co-ope you know~..:. '.

! ' . I

~ ~ ',tle bit tainted they were .people around here

.0 be communistdominated BO"th~y weren't very;pdpular

c~~~ were a .11. t,

considered them t.

'at all

I: All co-o'ps?. 'o,c. .

No, at ".rirst, it seemed that way, th.,

trusted co-ops they felt they we~,"

That changed tho'..

R1s e,:;~;;~niBh ~op~e'~ this ar~~ dt.~~~.'.too Soclalistic. or somethlng.

R2:

I: Was there an~

~E people finally .earned that' it: really wafR1 :

a co-op that the church ,peopl~~.~.R2: It seems "t me that if ,ong tyouthat belonged 'to

know at first a while, bUt

the churches loo~._- 1 on you as a communist,yr

think it was connunist tainted ,at first for

k:ed /toW!

You ~ow there was a big Communist movement

Yes, there were alot of Ishpeming peOJ

theY'~ had their meetings and ever,ythinfcThe~e '.is eomethi - 1at

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.among the Finn,ish peop~e.

they built a hall where

there

~2: ng about tJ in that book too

t do8sn't":sa in that bo

Coming Nation;" -- --- - ~ ~is it still

No, that was tom down.. .'..

that is where they held the

n" .,iD'~+a qn~ nf' I

Ik. . .. n

there?I:

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RaIl

It grit we )nlnU!1

ir meetings and the" ",oj':, ~!Veryone we' ... ... "'- ~ ..

,oup that built th~f and

used to have dance~ ther

~turday 1. ~ourse

didn't care : but that

lecific group

)nvnunist r: nQt .rt

least they dOT

n"t "toO "tno..~e aanceB... ~7oU. I

of faded away now...a.t

~thing that wo"u1d adbit't have any

that now

being communist?Was therE ~~e:,.:.':~ ~his area who would admit t