Episode 188: Saunacast: How we Took Control of Our ... · medicine. And Heather, I think you had a similar experience pretty early on. Heather: Definitely. Well, my first child, my

Copyright © 2018 Wellness Mama · All Rights Reserved

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Episode188:Saunacast:HowweTookControlofOurHealthcareandInsurance(&SavedMoney)


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyPerfectKeto.Ihaveheardfromalotofyouwhoaretryingtheketodietrightnow.AndPerfectKetohasseveralproductsthatmakeitsomucheasierandtastier.Theyhaveketo-friendlysportsdrinkswithzeroadditives,zerocarbs,andonlyhigh-qualityingredients.AndI'vegottensomanyquestionsaboutthis.Theyalsohaveexogenousketonesthatraisebloodketonelevelsupto1.5millimolesperliter.Sothatwouldbesimulatingafast.Alotofpeopleusetheseexogenousketonestoincreasementalperformance,andenergyproduction,andfatburningwithouttheneedtodoextendedfasting.AndPerfectKetoreallyjusthelpsmakeketosisavailabletoeveryone,everywhere,allthetimewithouttheneedtodoextendedfasting,likeIsaid.Youcancheckouttheseandalloftheirotherproductsatperfectketo.com/healthymoms.AndifyouusethecodeHEALTHYMOMS,alluppercase,youcansave20%onanyorder.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyJoovv.Thisisasuper-brightredlightthatIhaveinmybathroomandthatIuseeverydaytohelpmyskin,myhair,andmybrainalltobetheirbest.Here'sthedeal.Everyday,we'reexposedtoavarietyofcellularstressorslikebluelight,environmentaltoxins,andEMFsthatcanbasicallyreducehowefficientlyourcellscanwork.Joovvcombinesredandnear-infraredlightwithouttheheatofasaunainasingleproductthatletsmecombatthenegativeeffectsofthemodernworldandcombatwrinklesinjustafewminutesaday.I'vetalkedtoatonofpeoplewholovethislightasmuchasIdo,andtheysayithashelpedimproveeverythingfromtheirskinandhairtotighteninguptheirskin,andevenimprovingsleepandlibido.Ithasalifespanof50,000-plushours,sotheytrulylastalifetime.Andit'soneoftheeasiestthingsIdoformyhealth.Joovvisalsothird-partytestedandFDA-approved,andyoucancheckitoutandlearnmoreaboutthemanybenefitsbygoingtojoovv.com/wellnessmama.Andwhenyouusethatlink,theywillthrowinaspecialgiftwithanypurchasejustforbeingaWellnessMamaPodcastlistener.

Hi,andwelcometotheWellnessMamaPodcast.I'mKatie.

Heather:AndI'mHeather.

Katie:Andwearesittinginasaunarightnow,andexcitedtochatabouttakingcontrolofyourfamily'shealthcareandsavingmoneyintheprocess.Becausethisissomethingthatwebothnavigatedforalongtime,notverywellatfirst,andhadtolearnalotofthingsthehardway.Andwe'rehopingthatmaybeyoucanlearnfromourexperienceandsavesomeofthattimeandmoneythatwehadtogothrough.

Heather:Yes.

Katie:Sobasically,thereasonthisbecameanissueforbothofusis,withinourfamilies,webothfacedhealthproblemsthatwereeitherobscurealittlebitornotwidelyknown,orthatwehadtousealternativemethodstofix.Andwehadtonavigatehowtodothatwhenitwasn'tthestandardmedicalcarenorm,likestandardofpractice.Soforme,I'vetalkedaboutitbefore,butwithmythyroidproblems,ittookmeeightyearsalmostandthatmanydoctorstofinallygetanswersandtofigureoutwhatwasgoingon.AndIhadtofindthosedoctorsmyself.BecauseIdid,IstartedwithgoingtoaprimarycaredoctorandtomyOBandkeptgettingtoldlike,"No.Yourlevelsarealittlelow,butthey'renormalandit'snothingtoworryabout."ButIwasreading,ifyouhaveaveragetolownumbersonaregularthyroidtest,youactuallyareclinicallyshowingsymptoms.


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Becausetheaveragesarecreatedbypeoplewhoaretypicallyelderlypopulationsorpeoplewhoalreadysuspecttheyhavethyroidproblems.

Andsoit'snotatrueaverageoflike,"Whatwouldahealthy22-year-old'sthyroidlooklike?"It'ssomeonewho'salreadyshowingsomekindofclinicalissuebecausethat'swho'sgettingtested.Andevenknowingthat,Iwashavingtroublegoingtodoctorsandsaying,"Iwanttoruntheselabs.Iwanttopayyoumoneytoruntheselabs."Andtheywouldalwayswanttojuststartwithone.Andifthatwasnormal,theydidn'teverwanttogodownthecascade.Nooneevertestedmyantibodiesuntil,finally,Ifoundadoctorwhoknewalotmoreaboutthyroidandwaswillingtodothat.Andsothatformewastheverybeginningof,kindof,tryingtoembracefiguringouthowtonavigatethatonmyownbecauseIwasn'tgettinganswersfromtraditionalmedicine.AndHeather,Ithinkyouhadasimilarexperienceprettyearlyon.

Heather:Definitely.Well,myfirstchild,mydaughter,startedshowingsignsoftoothdecay,eventhoughIhadeatenaverytraditionaldietwhenIwaspregnantwithherandshehadeatenallwholefoodsherentirelife.AndIwas,honestly,justcompletely…Well,Imean,atfirst,Ifelthugeamountsofguilt,butalsowonderingwhatIhaddonewrongorwhathadgonewrong.Andultimately,afteralotofsearching,whatIrealizedisIhadageneticmutationthathadalteredhownutrientswereutilized,andabsorbedinmybody.AndthathadpartlyplayedarolewhileIwaspregnant,butalso,youknow,I'dpassedonapartofthatmutationanditwasalteringnutrientuptake.Andso,youknow,forus,therewasthat.Andthen,youknow,myhusbandhadhadsomeongoinghealthissuesthatwekindofworkedthrough.

We'ddonesomeguthealingdiets.Butitfeltlikenomatterwhatwedid,wewerehavingtroublegettingtotherootofthataswell.Anditseemedtohaveageneticcomponentthatwedidn'tfullyunderstand.Andsincemostofthemedicalmodelisreallyfocusedonsolvingordealingwithsymptoms,myobjective,whichwastogettotherootoftheissueandtofindapathtowellnessandfigureouthowtokeepmyfamilythrivingand,youknow,workingtoboostthefunctionofcertainpartsofthebodythatmaybedidn'tfunctionoptimallybecauseofgeneticmutations…Thatwasn'tthesamegoalthatthedoctorsthatwestartedwithhad.Andsoittookmeawhiletofindadoctorwhohadthatsamemindset,thatwewereworkingtowardwellness.Wewerenotjustworkingtoavoidaparticularsymptomortotrytosolveonelittlepieceofthepuzzle.

Katie:Yeah,definitely.Ithinkthatwasahugekeyinmineaswell.Andforme,Istartedmakingmyownhealthchangesand,kindof,tryingtogaugethingsthatwereworkingandthingsthatweren't.Andthen,thenextstepinthisprocessformewasmythirdchildwasbornviaC-section,andIdidnotknowatthatpointwhatIknownowaboutthemicrobiomeandseedingandpassingonbacteria.AndhewasborninaverysterileenvironmentandimmediatelytransferredtotheNICU,whereIcouldn'teventouchhimforaweek.Andhestartedexhibitingsymptomsassoonashestartedeatingsolidfoodsof,like,mildautisticsymptoms,andalsohorribleeczemaonhisfaceandobviousgutissues.AndalloftheconventionaladvicethatIwasgettingfromthedoctor,fromthepediatricianwas,"Justputsomethingtopicalontheskin,andhe'llprobablygrowoutofthebehavioralstuffandthere'snothingtoworryaboutthere."

Andasamom,Iwaslike,"It'snotnormalthatmykidhasthese,like,crustybleedingpatchesonhisface."AndsothatwasthenextthingIstartedresearchingof,"IstheresomethingIcandoathomethatwouldhelphim?Oraretherepractitionersthatcouldhelphim?"AndthatledmeeventuallyintoGAPSandintounderstandingthegutmicrobiomeinamuchdeeperway.Andhe'snowcompletelyneurotypical.Heisdevelopmentallyexactlywherehe'ssupposedtobe,andhisskinisfine.Butthatwasalongtwo-yearprocess,andIthinkthat


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wasanothermomentinourlifethatreallycementedthatwe,asparents,havesomuchpower,butalsosomuchresponsibility.Thatunfortunately,Iwishitwasassimpleaswecouldjustoutsourcethattoadoctorandgettheanswerswewant,butthatveryrarelyseemstobethecase.

AndIknowwe'vebothheardfromsomanyofyouwhohavehadsimilarexperiencesandhavehadtoprettymuchnavigateandbeonthefrontlines,andfightforyourchildorforyourself,orforyourhusband,onthefrontlinesyourself.AndIknowwe'venavigatedthattoo,andwe'vefoundsomethingsthathavebeenreallyhelpfulinthatprocessandwantedtojustsharesomemoreactual,practical,andlogisticalstufftoday.

Heather:Yeah,absolutely.Youknow,IthinkthethingIlookformostandthethingIlovemostaboutourdoctoristhathevaluesandtrustsamom'sinstincts.Becausethereisnobodythatiswatchingthedetailslikeamom.Andwhenamomsayssomethingisoff,youcantrustthatit'soff.Evenifshehasn'tfoundawaytoarticulateityet,there'salmostalwayssomethingthere.AndIthinkittakesjusttimetofigureout…Notalmost,thereisalwayssomethingthere.Ittakestimetomaybefigureoutexactlywhatitis.Buttrustingamomandknowingthat,youknow,a5to15-minuteexamisnotareplacementfortheexperienceofamomthat'sliving,youknow,dayinanddayoutwithachild,whoknowseverythingaboutthemandistryingtorelaythatandgethelp.Like,Ithinkthatwhenyoufindadoctorthatrespectsthat,honorsthat,andisreallywillingtolisten,thatyoucanformapartnershipthatcanworktoward,youknow,gettingthingsbetter.

Katie:Yeah.That'ssokey.Ithinksomanyotherculturesthroughouthistoryhavebeensomuchbetteraboutlisteningtogutintuitionandto,especially,amother'swisdom,andwe'vegottenawayfromthatbecausewewanttobeabletojusttrustdoctors.Andit'snotthatsimpleuntilyoucanfind,likeyousaid,someonewhoistrulyapartner.AndIthinkthat's,ifanything,whatIwishIcouldhelpshiftinthemedicalcommunity.Becauseattheendoftheday,Ithinkdoctorsacrosstheboard,youdon'tgetthroughthatmanyyearsofschoolandthatmuchextendededucationwithoutactuallycaringaboutwhatyou'redoingandcaringaboutyourareaofexpertiseandcaringaboutyourpatients.AndIknowmanydoctorswhoarejustasfrustratedbynothavingenoughtimewiththeirpatientsasthepatientsare.

ButIfeellikethatthemedicalcommunityrightnow,itdoesn'treallysetdoctorsupforsuccessinthator,like,letthembeabletobepartnersinhealthcarewithsomeone.Becauseit'ssuchashortamountoftimethatyouseeadoctor,youcan'treallyworkthroughyourquestionsandtheycan'treallygiveeachpatientasmuchtimeastheywant.Whichthatwaspartofwhatledbothofus,Iknow,tofinding,definitely,alternativemethodsofbothourprimarycaredoctorsandalsoofinsurance.Andthat'swhatwewantedtogodeepwithyouguysontoday.Becauseearlyon,Iknowforbothofus,therewasatremendousamountofcostoftryingtofigureallthisout.Weweregettingalltheselabtestsandgenetictests,andworkingwithspecialists,manyofwhichwerenotcoveredbyinsuranceandmanyofwhichwereveryexpensive.

AndIknownow,we'vebothkindofendedupinsimilar,sortof,complementarymethodsofnavigatingthisthathavesavedatonofmoney,butalsoallowedustopursuesomeofthemorealternativeandnaturaloptionswhilestillbeingoverseenbyadoctor.Sodoyouwannamaybegointohowyouswitchedfrom,like,akindoftraditionalinsurance,traditionaldoctorintothesystemyouhavenow?

Heather:Yeah.Sowedefinitely,definitely,wentthroughalotofoursavingstryingtosolvesomeoftheseissues.Especially,withmyhusband,likethegutissuesandtryingtogettotherootofthings.Andwesortofbouncedfromdoctortodoctorjusttryingtogetsomebodywhofeltlikeagoodmatch,butalsojustbecauseitwasafrustratingprocess,tosaytheleast.Whatendedupworkingforuswasareallyinterestinghybrid


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model.Weendedupfindingadoctorthatwelovedandthatwefeltlikewasreallypassionateaboutcaringandhelping.Youknow,hecaredforhispatients,andhewantedtohelphispatients.Buthewasasfrustratedbytheinsurancemodelasanyoneelse.Sohestartedasubscriptionmodelwhere,basically,wepayamonthlysubscription.Soourfamilypaysamonthlysubscriptiontohisoffice,andwecancallhimortexthim,oranything.

Ifwehavequestions,orwehaveanissue,orsomethingarises,heisimmediate-…Imean,he'salmostalwaysimmediatelyavailable.Hegetsbacktouswithinaday.They'veprovidedamazingcareforus.Andifwedon'tneedit,then,youknow,justdon'tuseit.Butit'salow,kindof,monthlyfee.Andthathasbeenamazingjusttohave,basically,adoctoroncall.Andsothat'skindofwellness-oriented.Andthen,whatwealsodidiswewentwith,insteadofourolderinsurancewhichbasicallycoverednothingrelatedtowellness,Imean,everythingwedidwaskindofjustoutof…Itjustwasn'tcovered.SowewentwithSamaritan,andtheyhavebeenreallygoodtousaboutjustcoveringthingsthatare…Whenwe'readdressingaparticularissue,wehavegonethroughthemtogethelpcoveringthoseneeds.

Sothat'skindofwhatwe'redoing,sortofahybridmodel.Sowearemonthlymemberswiththisdoctor.Andifwedon'tuseit,wedon'tgetreimbursedbecausethereisn't,like,anillnessassociatedwithit.Butifwedoneeditthatmonth,thenwesubmitittoSamaritan,anditusuallygetscovered.

Katie:Yeah.We'vetakenareallysimilarhybridapproach.AndlikeIsaid,ittookalotofyears,infact,especiallytofindkindofthatconciergedoctorthatyoutalkedabout.AndIknowyoursisalreadysuper-busyand…

Heather:Yeah.

Katie:…can'ttakemanynewpatients.Sowecouldn'tworkwithhim.Butthen,Ifoundacompanythatdoessomethingreallysimilarthat'smuchmorewidelyavailable.Soit'scalled"SteadyMD,"andthat'swhatwe'reusingnowforprimarycaredoctors.Andforanybodylistening,ifyouwanttofindoutaboutitandspecificallyseethedoctorsthatI'vevettedandrecommend,it'ssteadymd.com/wmfor"WellnessMama,"andit'll,like,showyoutheactualdoctorsandthequalifications.ButjustlikeHeather,withyourexperience,I'vefounddoctorswhounderstoodfunctionalmedicine,whounderstoodgenetics,andthesamewayyouwerepayingasetamountpermonth.Soforus,it's$100perpersonforeach,myhusbandandI.Butthen,theyhaveapediatricadd-onthat's,Ithink,like$20-somethingamonththatcoversallofourkids.

Heather:Yes.Sosimilarwherethelargeryourfamily,themoresavings.Yeah.That'sgreat.

Katie:Yeah.Soit's,forourfamilysize,incrediblyinexpensive.Andwehavenowtwodoctorsthatwecanbothreachouttoatanypointviatextoremail,orvideochat,orphonecall,anytimeofday.Andlikeyourdoctor,theydon'thavetotakeonasmanypatientsthatway,sotheyareactuallymorefamiliarwithyourmedicalhistory.Whenyoucallthem,theyknowwhat'sgoingon.Theydon'thavetoaskyouadozenquestions.It'snotlikegoingintoUrgentCareandyouhavetogivethemyourentiremedicalhistory.AndIknowforusandforyoutoo,therehavebeencaseswherethekidshadsomethingminorandyou'relike,"Idon'tthinkweneedtotakethemin,butI'mnotsure.Iwannajustbereassured."Andyoucanjustcallthedoctororvideochatthedoctorandbelike,"Hey,doesthisneedstitches?"or,"Isthisallergicreactionfromthisbeestingsomethingtoworryabout?"orwhateverthecasemaybe.Or,"Isthisaspiderbite,oristhisjustaninfectedmosquitobite?"orwhateveritis.ItsavessomanyUrgentCarevisits.


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Heather:Definitely.WehavebeenonvacationandthisisthethingIloveaboutSteadyMDandthismodel,isyoudon'tactuallyhavetobethere.Andthen,youactuallysavesomuchmoretimebecauseyoudon'thavetohaulyourselfintoanoffice.Therearealotofthings,like,youcanresolvewithaphonecall.Nottosaytherearen'ttimesthatyouwanttobeintheoffice.Youdefinitelydo.Butithasjustbeenahugetimesaver,butmorethananythinghassavedmealotofworry.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Andthat'sahugekey.Ifeellikeintoday'sworld,wegetgroceriesdelivered,everythingcomesintwodaysfromAmazon,andyet,like,westillhavetogositatadoctor'sofficeforliketwohourstoseeadoctorforfiveminutes,whichiscrazy.Sothisway,wehavemuchmore.Andalso,it'sinvaluablejustthemknowingyourmedicalhistoryandthefactthat,likeyoudid,youfoundadoctorwhospecializedinwhatyouneededatthetime,likewhatspecificknowledgeyouneededthatdoctortohave,andwedidthesamething.WithSteadyMD,theyhave,like,thyroid-specificdoctorsorathlete-specificdoctors,ordoctorsthatareforthosewithdiabetesorheartdisease,thatthat'stheirspecialtyisactuallyhelpingreversethatbutfromamedicalside.Andtheyunderstandtheintegrativesideaswell,sothey'renotgonnathinkyou'recrazywhenyou'relike,"SohereareallthesupplementsI'mtaking.Andoh,Iliketowater-fastand…"

Heather:Yeah.

Katie:Yeah.Andalso,theotherpartthatIknowwe'vetalkedaboutsomuchjustbetweenusishowmuchmoneyitsaves.BecauseIlookbacktowhenwewerefirstmarried,wehadtraditionalinsurancethroughmyhusband'sjob,andwewerenotmakingverymuchatall.Ithinkweweremakingwellunder$30,000ayear.Andofthat,everymonth,$800cameoutforinsurancebecauseIwaschild-bearingageandcouldhavebabiesanddid.Andthecrazypartiswestillhadlikea$5,000deductible.

Heather:Right.

Katie:Andtheyonlycovered80%.Soeverykidcostseveralthousanddollarsjustforthemtobebornandsometimesdidnotevenmeetthedeductible.Andifwedid,westillwerecomingoutofpocketsomuchandspendingsomuch.Andnow,Ithink,ifI'mrememberingthenumbers,like,SteadyMDforusisacouplehundredamonth.Ithinkit'ssimilarforyourdoctor.Samaritan,Ithink,isaroundlike$400andsomethingfor…

Heather:Myhusbanddoesthatpart.

Katie:Iknow,it's…Minetoo.It'sforsureunder$500.

Heather:Yeah.

Katie:Soit'sdefinitelycheaper.Butalso,thecoolthingaboutsomethinglikeSamaritan…Sothereareseveralofthese.Idon'tknowhowallofthemwork.IonlyknowSamaritan.Butyoucansubmitanykindofneed,andyou'retechnicallyconsideredself-paidbecauseyou'renotsendingmoneyintoasystem.You'resendingmoneyeverymonthtoanactualperson,whichweshouldmaybeexplainthisalittlemorebeforewegoon.

Heather:Yeah.Sorry.It'sahealthsharing.It'snotexactly,like,aninsurance,butit'sanalternativetoinsurancethatyoucando.Soit'sahealthsharingaccountthat'sfaith-based,andyoucansendmoneyin.AndI'llletyoucoverthedetailsonhowthatworks.


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Katie:Yeah.Andbeforewegoontoo,Iknowthatthereareothers.I'llmakesureit'slinkedintheshownotes.There'sanewonecomingout.Whenyou'relisteningtothis,itshouldbethismonth,andit'scalled"KNEWHealth,"K-N-E-W.Andit'shealthcaresharing,butit'snotfaith-based.

Heather:Right.

Katie:Soifyouaren'tcomingfromaChristianperspective,therearestilloptions.

Heather:Orwillbe.

Katie:Therewillbe,yes.Samaritanisfaith-based,soyoudohaveto,like,signsomethingsayingthatyouhavecertainbeliefsbeforeyoucanjoin.Andyou'retechnicallyconsideredself-paidwhenyougointoadoctor'sofficeorahospitalbecauseyou'repaying,andthenyou'regettingreimbursed,notbySamaritan,butbyactualpeople,whichismyfavoritepart.Becauseeverymonth,youactuallygettosendmoneytosomeone.Andyoualsogetsomethingthatsayslike,"Thisiswhatthey'regoingthrough.Please,prayforthem,"andourkidsalwaysliketomakepicturestosendtothemorcards.AndIjustfeellikethat'sareallycoolreminderofanimportantaspectofcommunityandthatwe'reallinthistogether,anditletsyoufeellikeyou'reactuallyhelpingsomeonewhodirectlyneedsitversusjustthrowingmoneyintoasystem.

Butbecauseofthat,somanyhospitalsanddoctors'officesofferaself-paiddiscount.SoIknow,forinstance,ourfirstexperienceactuallyusingSamaritanwasin2012,Ibelieve,whenmyhusband,outofnowhere,like,wastotallyfineandthen,afewhourslater,hisappendixhadruptured.Andsowewereinthehospitalforthat,gotdischargedacoupledayslater,andhewasfeelingworseandworse,notbetterandbetter,and,like,super-paleandcouldnotwalk.AndItookhimbackandthedoctorwaslike,"Oh,youhaveasecondaryinfection,"thatwasC.diffandsomekindofflesh-eatingthing.

Heather:Sonobigdealatall,right?JustC.diffandflesh-eatingbacteria?

Katie:Right.

Heather:Ohmygosh.

Katie:Justneardeathand10moredaysinthehospitalincluding,like,drainsandantibioticseveryfourhours,andallthesethings.Andwhenweleft,thebillwaslike$132,000.Buthere'sthecrazypart.SoInegotiated,beforeweleft,therewasa79%immediateself-paiddiscountatourhospital,whichknockeditdownaton.

Heather:Wow.

Katie:Andthenbeyondthat,ifyoucouldpaythatdayviacashorcreditcard,itwasanother20%discount.AndsincewehadbeenusingSamaritan,we'dbeenputtinganyextramoneythatwecouldintojustasavingsaccounttohaveincasetherewaseveramedicalneed.Sowewereabletopaythatday,andthensubmitittoSamaritanandgetthefullpartreimbursed.Becausethecoolthingwithhealthcaresharing,atleastwithSamaritan,isifyouareabletogetadiscount,thatcountstowardwhatwouldkindofbe,like,theco-pay.Sothemostyou'llpayforanapprovedmedicalneedis$300.Butifyougetatleast$300inadiscount,youdon'tevenpaythatpart.Soweendedupgettingfullyreimbursedforthat.


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Thebillendedupbeingsomuchlessthanitcouldhavebeentobeginwith,andthatsamethinghasbeentruewithourlasttwochildrenwhentheywereborn.Samaritanencourageswhateverbirthmethodyou'remostcomfortablewith,buttheyaredefinitelyfinewithcoveringhomebirthorbirthcenter,orevenahospitalbirthoramidwifedoctor.Soforus,ourinsurancewouldneverhavecoveredhomebirthandSamaritandid.Andbecause,justlikethehospital,themidwifegaveacashdiscountifyoupaid,wewerecompletelyreimbursedforthebirthofourlasttwochildren.Wedidn'tevenpay$300.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyPerfectKeto.Ihaveheardfromalotofyouwhoaretryingtheketodietrightnow,andPerfectKetohasseveralproductsthatmakesitsomucheasierandtastier.Theyhaveketo-friendlysportsdrinkswithzeroadditives,zerocarbs,andonlyhigh-qualityingredients.AndI'vegottensomanyquestionsaboutthis–theyalsohaveexogenousketonesthatraisebloodketonelevelsupto1.5millimolesperliter.Sothatwouldbesimulatingafast.Alotofpeopleusetheseexogenousketonestoincreasementalperformanceandenergyproductionandfatburningwithouttheneedtodoextendedfasting.AndPerfectKetoreallyjusthelpsmakeketosisavailabletoeveryoneeverywhereallthetime,withouttheneedtodoextendedfasting,likeIsaid.Youcancheckouttheseandalloftheirotherproductsatperfectketo.com/healthymoms.Andifyouusethecode"HEALTHMOMS,"youcouldsave20%onanyorder.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyJoovv.Thisisasuper-brightredlightthatIhaveinmybathroomandthatIuseeverydaytohelpmyskin,myhair,andmybrainalltobetheirbest.Here'sthedeal.Everyday,we'reexposedtoavarietyofcellularstressorslikebluelight,environmentaltoxins,andEMFsthatcanbasicallyreducehowefficientlyourcellscanwork.Joovvcombinesredandnear-infraredlightwithouttheheatofasaunainasingleproductthatletsmecombatthenegativeeffectsofthemodernworldandcombatwrinklesinjustafewminutesaday.I'vetalkedtoatonofpeoplewholovethislightasmuchasIdo,andtheysayithashelpedimproveeverythingfromtheirskinandhairtotighteninguptheirskin,andevenimprovingsleepandlibido.Ithasalifespanof50,000-plushours,sotheytrulylastalifetime.Andit'soneoftheeasiestthingsIdoformyhealth.Joovvisalsothird-partytestedandFDA-approved,andyoucancheckitoutandlearnmoreaboutthemanybenefitsbygoingtojoovv.com/wellnessmama.Andwhenyouusethatlink,theywillthrowinaspecialgiftwithanypurchasejustforbeingaWellnessMamaPodcastlistener.

Heather:AnotherthingIloveaboutthemisthattheycover…Iwon'tsayoff-labeluses,butlikeifthere'satherapyoutthere,sometimesthetherapy,intheinsuranceworld,it'sonlyapprovedforlikethreethings.Butitactuallyhasmoreapplicationsthatcanhelpmorepeople.Butit'sjustnot,Iguess,approvedinthatway.Andsothere'sactuallyalotmoreflexibilityinwhatthey'vebeenwillingtodo.They'rejustalittlemoreopen-mindedintermsof,Iguess,ifadoctorthinksthatthetreatmentisviableandcanhelpaparticular,youknow,situation,thenthey'remorewillingtoconsiderit.

Katie:Yeah.Thatwasourexperienceaswellandwhy,I'msureforyoutoo,it'ssovaluabletohaveapractitionerordoctorwhounderstandsthemoreholisticmodel.

Heather:Right.

Katie:Becauseifthey'rewillingtorecommendit,Samaritanisalmostalwayswillingtocoverit,assumingthatit's,like,alogicaltreatment,whichhasletusbeabletousethingslikealternativemethodsin…SomyhusbanddevelopedSIBOasaresultofalltheantibioticsfromthesurgeryandthesteroids.Andinhisrecoveryfromthat,wewereabletousealotofalternativemethodsrecommendedbyadoctorwhoknewwhattheywere


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talkingabout,andSamaritanwascoolwiththat.Which,definitely,Ifeellikethatishardertonavigate,especiallywithadoctorwhoonlyhas,youknow,10minutestoseeyou.

Heather:Yeah.Andthatis,Ithink,wherewegotourbiggestsavingsisjust,weweregoingtodothatstuffanyway,soit'sreallygreattohaveitcovered.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.SoIfeellikethisisverymuch,kindof,probablythefutureofmedicine,butit'sstillsomewhatfringerightnow.AndIknowwhenIfirstheardof,like,healthcaresharingandconciergemedicine,itwassuchadiversionfromthenormalinsurancemodelthatIwasjustsoworriedthatlike,"Whatifwe'renotactuallycovered?Orwhatifsomethinggoeswrong?"Andjustourexperiencehasbeencompletelytheopposite.Andespeciallythosetimeswhenweactuallydidhaveamedicalneed,orwehadababy,wewerereimbursedfortheexpenses,buttheycamewith,like,"Congratulations"cardsor,like,"GetWellSoon"cards.AndjustIfeellikewe'vetalkedsomuch,andIthinkit'salwaysworthmentioningtheimportanceofcommunity.AndthisisjustonewaythatIfoundto,like,buildthatcommunityaswell,andtofeellikeyou'repartofacommunityandsupportingothers.

Heather:Itotallyagree.AndIalsofeellike,wehavehadthisexperiencewithourhealthcareproviderstoo,mostlyouronedoctorthatweworkwithmost,isjustit'sliketheold-fashioned,like,homemodel,wherelikeyouhavetheonedoctorinthetownandhecaresforthepeople.Like,that'showitfeelstotalktohim.Like,heknowsyourname.Heknowsallofyourfamilymembers'names.Heknowshowoldyourchildrenare.And,like,thosedetailsthatmostdoctorsjustliterallydon'thavethetimetotakeinanymorearerightthereattheforefront.AndsoIalwaysfeellikewhenwetalk,thathe'sseeingabiggerpicture.Andthosebiggerpicturesactuallycanplayahugeroleinhowyoucareforapatientand,like,youseeingthepatient'sbiggerneedsand,like,supportingthemthroughallkindsofthings.

Iknow,youknow,whenmyhusbandwasdealingwithsomethingswithhishealth,thathisdoctor,ourdoctor,stoppedtheconversationandlookedatme,andwaslike,"Howareyoudoingwiththis?"checkingwithme.Knowingthat,youknow,assomebodywho'spartoftheprocess,like,justmakingsurethatI'mtakingcareofmyselfasmyhusbandisinrecovery,andthosekindsofthings.Sothere'scommunityallaround,communitythatweshareincaringforeachother,andthenalsoinmaintainingorfosteringstrongerrelationshipswithourcareprovidersthanhasbeenaccessibletousforthelastcoupleofdecadesitfeelslike.

Katie:Yeah.Ithinkthat'sagreatpoint.It'slikegoingbacktotheold-school,like,countrymedicinedoctor…

Heather:Yeah.

Katie:…likeDr.QuinnMedicineWoman.Exceptforthedifferenceisit's…

Heather:Youcanemailthem.

Katie:Yes.Ortextthem.Becausehowmanyofus,like,wedoeverythingviatextanymore?Andwecanjusttextapictureofsomething.Butalso,Ifeellikethecoolthingforthedoctorstooistheyhavesomuchmorebandwidthbecausethey'renotworkinginsanehours.They'reactuallyseeingtheirfamilies.They'retechnicallyoncallmoreoften,buttheycalledless.

Heather:Right.


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Katie:Andsotheyhavejustmoremarginintheirlifetoactually,like,beabletothinkthroughhealthproblems.Like,I'vehadmydoctorcomebacktomewithstuffandbelike,"Hey,haveyouevertriedthis?"Andhewasjustthinkingaboutitinhis…

Heather:Totally.

Katie:…offtimebecause…

Heather:Yes.

Katie:…hehasthetimetothink.

Heather:Absolutely.We'vehadthesameexperience.And,youknow,ourdoctorhasfivechildren.Andwhenhegetstoseethem,Imean,he'sgetting,like,therefreshmentandthewhyisconstantlyrenewedforhim.AndIthinkthat'ssovaluable.Hecomesbacktoworkwithhiswhyinplacebecauseheloveshisfamily,andheknowsthatthefamilieshecaresforare,youknow…Idon'tknow.Itmakesthatconnectionstronger.

Katie:Forsure.And,Imean,togoback,Iknowoneofmybiggestquestionsinthebeginningwasthefinancialside.BecauseIfeltlikewewerepayingsomuchforinsurance,andIwasreadytoletgoofthat,butIwantedtomakesurewewerecoveredaswell.AndIwillactuallytypeoutabreakdownofthecostintheshownotesofthisatwellnessmama.fm,soyoucanseehowmuchmoneywe'vesavedinthattradeoffbetween…Youdohavetopayforanythingthat'sunder$300.Soifyou'rejustgoinginfor,like,awellchildvisitoraminorthingatUrgentCare,you'restillgoingtopayforthat.ButwithsomethinglikeSteadyMDoryourdoctor,ifit'ssomethingthatcanbeseenremotely,likeifyou'rechildhasstreporearinfection,orwhatever,thedoctorcanevaluatethatandtellyouifyouneedtodosomethingornot.Andatleastinmycase,they'llusuallytellmetodosomethingalternativelike,"Definitely,don'tdoantibiotics.Dothisinstead."Andthat'scomingfromadoctor.

Soyoudohavetopayforanythingunder$300withSamaritanatleast,butanythinglargeriscovered.AndIfeellike,evenwiththat,sincewedon'tgotothedoctorveryoftenbecausewe'retypicallyprettyhealthy,thatsavessomuchmoney.

Heather:Oh,ithasdefinitelysavedusmoney.Myhusbandhandlesmostofthisstuff,soit'slikeI'malittlethinonthedetailshere.ButIknowthat,youknow,wesortofhave,like,apartofourbudgetthatisdirectedtowardplay,like,familyexperiencesand,youknow,medicalstuff.AndIjustknowthatonceweswitched,wehadalotmorethatwecouldsetasideforfamilyexperiencesbecausewewerejustspendingsomuchlessonmedicalstufformoreholistictherapy-typestuff.

Katie:Absolutely.Andagain,I'llputthebreakdownintheshownotes.ButIknowfrom,like,notonlyarewesavingmoneymonthtomonthonthewholeinsuranceanddoctorsside,butjustlikeyou,wehadkindofalineitemonthebudgetdevotedtothat.Andnow,whatwe'resavingtotallycoverstheexpenseinbetterfood,thatwealwaystrytoprioritizequalityfoodasacostbecauseweknowthatreduceshealthcarecost.Andalsothings,like,now,asit'sfallandwe'regearingupforfluseason,itcoversthingslikemakingalotofelderberrysyrupandmakingsurethehouseisstockedwithvitaminC,andwehave…

Heather:We'vegotourapplecider.

Katie:Exactly.


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Heather:Yeah.

Katie:Andlikeessentialoilsinthediffuser,andeventhingslikehavingairfiltersandwaterfiltersinthehouse.Like,thosearethingsthatcontributetoourhealth,andwehavemuchmoremargintobeabletoaffordthosethingsbecausewe'renotspendingasmuchonhealthcarewedon'tneed.

Heather:Right.

Katie:AndIthinkthat'sthekey.Idon'tthinkit'saperfectfitforeveryone.It'sdefinitelynotapanacea.Andifyouworkinajobwhereyouhaveamazinginsurance,andeverythingis100%covered,itmaynotmakesenseforsomepeople.ButIknowforus,especially,asentrepreneursorpeoplewhotrytodothingsagainstthenormsometimes,onceinawhile,alittle…

Heather:Justafewtimes.

Katie:…ha…

Heather:Although,actually,overthelasttwoyears,I'mlike,"Ohmygosh,somuchofwhatwedoisnowmainstream."

Katie:Iknow.Ilovethat.Ifeellike,Iknowbothofourexperiences,overadecadeago,whenwestartedthisjourneyforbothofus,nobodywastalkingaboutthiskindastuff.Like,youcouldnotbuycoconutoilinagrocerystorewhenwefirst…

Heather:No.

Katie:…startedthis.Wewerelike…Therewasjustablackmarketforgrass-fedmeat.

Heather:Iwasdriving,like,45minutestomeetpeopleinaparkinglottobuy,youknow,like,mymeatand,youknow,dairy,andstufflikethatbecauseitwasn'tsoldingrocerystores.Youcouldn'tfindit.Andyoudefinitelycouldnothaveitshippedtoyou.

Katie:No.Andnow,it'ssomainstream.Andlike,eventhedoctorsthatwe'reworkingwithunderstandsomuchmoreaboutgeneticsthatdidn'tevenexist10yearsago,muchlessthatanybodyunderstoodit.Ortheyunderstandsupplementationbasedonyourgeneticneedsandmethylation,andjustallthesenewthings.Sounfortunately,wedoliveinaworldwhere,Iknow,like,we'vebothwrittenaboutandtalkedaboutbefore,thereissomuchplasticandtherearesomanynegativeinputsthatyou'regettingallthetime.Butnow,Idofeellikewithtechnologyandwiththingslikethesenewthings,beingabletocontrolyourhealthcare,wecanatleastfeellikewecandobattleeffectivelyagainstallthesenegativeinputs.

Heather:Yeah.

Katie:Yeah.Soagain,like,we'llputallthelinksintheshownotes.IthinktheonewebothuseisSamaritanMinistries.Youguyscangooglethat.Andactually,ifyouwanttosignupandyouuseHeather'sname,Ithinkthere'skindof,like,somekindacool…Like,theysortofputyoutogetherbasedonreferralsorsomething.There'ssomebenefittothat,justsayingwhoyou'rereferredby.SoifyouuseHeatherDessingerasyourreferralandthen,hopefully,like,we'llgetto,like,bealittleconnectedwithyouforthat.Andwe'llalsoputlinksintheshownotestoplacesyoucangetthingslikelabtestsfromhome.


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Heather:Oh,yeah.Becausethat'sdefinitelysomethingyoucandoonyourown.Andobviously,youneedpeopletohelpyousometimesinterpretthose.Butsometimes,ifyouknowwhattheymeanandyoujustwanttotrackthingsovertime,itcanbereallyhelpfultorunthose.Sowehaveapostonwhatyoucanrunathometokindakeeptabsonyourhealth.

Katie:Yeah.AndI'llincludeallthoselinks.Iknow,ifyouwanttodoittotallyfromhome,there'sonecalledEverlyWellnow,thattheysendyouakit,youdoalabtestbasedonafingerprickathome,andyousenditback.Youdon'teverhavetogoanywhere.Beyondthat,there'sothersthatwillbelinkedinthepostthatyoucanactuallyfindalabinyourareaandjustorderthelabs,printouttheform,goin,theydrawthem,andtheysendyoutheresults.Whichthatalsodidnotexist10yearsago,whenallofthisstarted.Sonow,youhavetheabilitytoorderyourownlabs.OrIknowifyouworkwithadoctor,likeeitheroftheonesweworkwith,theycanorderlabsforyou.Andthey'reusuallysomuchlessexpensivetogothroughanindependentlablikethatversusahospitalor…Iremember,probably,like,10yearsagonow,IjustwantedtogetmyvitaminDtestedbecauseIwaspregnant.Ittookforevertofindsomeonewhowouldactuallytestit,anditendedupcostinglike$500justforavitaminDtest.Andinsurancewouldn'tcoveritbecause,obviously,vitaminDisnotimportantduringpregnancy.It'sonlylinkedtoeverypositivebirthoutcome,but…

Heather:Yeah.Wow.

Katie:Yeah.Sogratefulforthat.

Heather:Yeah.It'salmostlikeyouhavetoplaythisspecialgamewhereyouhavetomatchthelabtestwithsomepossiblediagnosisorsomething.Andit'slike,itsortajustfeelslikeit'sreallyhardtofigureout.Especially,ifyou'redealingwithsomethingthat'sstressfulforyou,it'sjust,it'ssomuchmore…Idon'tknow.It'sjust,it'ssomuchbetterofafeelingtojustbeabletosay,"Let'sworktowardwellness,"insteadoflike,"Let'strytotieallofthistotherightdiagnosiscodessothatit'llgetcovered."That'snotanythingthatanypersonneedstobefocusedonwhenthey'retryingtogetwell.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Ithink,ifanything,that'sbeenjustthebiggestmentalshiftandtobeabletogotoadoctorwhounderstandsthatyou'vedoneresearchonthistoo,andthatyou'renotjust,like,makingupsomediagnosis,like,tofeelactuallyrespectedbythedoctor.And,like,I'vegonetohimandbeenlike,"IthinkImighthavethiskindofissuegoingonbasedonmygenetics,andthislabresultcamebacklikethis,"andhe'slike,"Yeah.Thatdefinitelysoundslikeitcouldlineup,butlet'sdooneothertestor…"IfeelverymuchlikeIhaveapartnerinmyhealthversusbeing,like,justtold,"No.Youdon'thaveaproblem,"whichwasmyexperienceforsomanyyears,orifthereisaproblem,"ThisistheonlysolutionthatI'mgonnaallowbasedontheinsurance."There'sjustsomanymoreoptionsonthetablenow.Andthankfully,Iknowwe'rebothinplaceswhereourfamilydoesn'tgetsickveryoftennow,andourkidsarereallyin,like,greatplacesforthemostpart.AndI'msogratefulforthat.Butit'salsogoodtoknowthatifanythingdoespopup,youknow,we'vealwaysgot…

Heather:Yes,definitely.

Katie:…peopleinourcorner.Well,again,allofthoselinkswillbeatwellnessmama.fmintheshownotes,andyoucanaskusfollow-upquestionsthereifwedidmissanything.I'llalsomakesuretoincludeacostbreakdownjustbecauseitreallytook…Ididalotofresearchonthatsidetoseeifwecouldaffordit,andit


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savedussomuchmoney.AndI'llalsolinktothenewnon-faith-basedoneforanybodywhoisinterestedincheckingthatoutaswell.Thecoolthingaboutthatone,justaquicknote,isit'sbasedonhealthandwellnessinsteadoffaith.Andsothescreeningtogetinactuallyinvolves,like,peoplewhocareandknowabouthealthandwellness,whichmeanstypicallytheyspendlessonmedicalcareanyway.

Sothey'reworkingonkeepingthatoneveryinexpensiveandeasytouse.OrSamaritanMinistries,youcangooglethatone,andthat'sbeenwonderfulforbothofus.Andasalways,wereallyappreciateyouguyssharingyourmostvaluableasset,whichisyourtime,withus.Andjust,yourtimeinbeinghere,itmeanssomuchtous.AndwehopetoseeyouagainonthenextSaunacast.We'regonnagogetsomecoolairnow,becausewe'redrenched.Butthanksforlistening,andwe'llseeyounexttime.

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime.Andthanks,asalways,forlistening.

Episode 188: Saunacast: How we Took Control of Our ... · medicine. And Heather, I think you had a similar experience pretty early on. Heather: Definitely. Well, my first child, my

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