Environmental Strategy Draft Background Report

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Environmental Strategy DraftBackground Report

Proceedings of Workshop and Breakout Sessionsheld on November 29th, 1999 at the Best Western

Islamabad

Compiled byFaisal Haq Shaheen

With the assistance ofFareeha Iqbal

Abdul Mateen KhanSaima Qadir

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TABLE OF CONTENTS

Morning Session, Chair Omar Asghar Khan, Minister of Environment,Local Government and Rural Development ...............................................3Welcoming Address, Mahboob Illahi, Additional Secretary, Ministry ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development ......................3Welcoming Address, Aziz Bouzaher, Senior Natural ResourceEconomist, World Bank................................................................................3Presentation of Background Paper, Tariq Banuri, Research Advisor,Tellus Institute ...............................................................................................4Reports bearing on the National Conservation Strategy Mid TermReview, Asif Zaidi, Head IUCN Islamabad, Pakistan EnvironmentalProgram Manager .........................................................................................5Discussion and Chair’s comments ...............................................................5Lunch ............................................................................................................14Breakout Sessions ........................................................................................14Session I Sustainable Livelihoods and Natural Resource Management...............14Session II Sustainable Industrial and Energy Developments.................................18Session III Environmental Health and the Quality of Life......................................23Tea.................................................................................................................26Afternoon Session, Chair, Omar Asghar Khan, Minister ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development ....................26Breakout Reports to Plenary......................................................................26Next Steps and Vote of Thanks, Shahrukh Rafi Khan, ExecutiveDirector, SDPI..............................................................................................26Chair’s Concluding Remarks, Omar Asghar Khan, Minister ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development ....................27

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Morning Session, Chair Omar Asghar Khan, Minister of Environment,Local Government and Rural Development

Welcoming Address, Mahboob Illahi, Additional Secretary, Ministryof Environment, Local Government and Rural Development

Mahboob Illahi gave the welcoming address on behalf of the Ministry ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development.He started by saying that SDPI has been holding environmental workshops forsome time and the issues we face include degredation of natural resources, cropsthreatened by chemicals and solid waste collection in our cities. At the globallevel, he emphasized that we need to target environmental policies and issuesrelated to climate change, ozone protection, etc.He closed by stating that we have now carried out an environmental assessment.Now we need to look at a long term environmental strategy.

Welcoming Address, Aziz Bouzaher, Senior Natural ResourceEconomist, World Bank

Aziz Bouzaher made the welcoming address on behalf of the World Bank.He outlined the current situation as having the following trends;Economic progress has been reasonably good but uneven despite significantpopulation increase. Pakistan is experiencing fast industrial growth and exportshave risen, but there is also an increase in the degradation of natural resources andan increase in urban environmental issues needing attention.

He stated that institutional policy has been weak and environmental governancepoor. The total economic and social loss of environmental degradation could beas much as 10-20% of GDP. More recent information on poverty suggests that1/3 of the population lives below the poverty level. In this regard, he explainedthat the Bank is preparing a corporate environmental strategy which will focus onissues which are very important to the poor, including: environmental health,sustainable livelihoods, vulnerability to risks form natural and environmentaldisasters, and empowerment. He said that the Bank welcomes comments andinput on this strategy which is still evolving.

In terms of education, he mentioned that in Punjab there are wide disparitiesbetween enrollment and attainment. Enrollment is 25% for the poorest 20% ofthe population, and 90% for the richest population (income-based).

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With respect to economic growth, he mentioned that we have recently seen agradual slow down. He mentioned that incentives and pricing of natural resourcesand user charges are not being implemented. In addition, a lot of problems of airpollution are related to the use of high sulfur fuels and leaded gasoline.

Furthermore, there are no credible environmental and social safeguards in placeand there are inadequate public consultations.

He summarized key environmental degradation of resources with the followingpoints.• Agri sustainability - 40% of land is water logged, pesticide use is

increasing, ground water level is decreasing.• Water pollution is also a huge problem (60% of child mortality is believed to

be caused by water borne diseases). There is no good baseline information onother pollution issues.

• Indoor air pollution has the potential for being the single most important issuein terms of the burden of disease in urban and rural households.

He mentioned that the report prepared by SDPI evaluates how much was and wasnot accomplished over the past 10 years and where we need to go from here,within the framework of the NCS and environmental strategy. He stressed theneed to finalize the report and assemble a home grown strategy.

He outlined the World Bank’s involvement as being to identify key environmentalissues to help reduce poverty. He stressed that the World Bank does not simplywant to continue lending money but provide information and knowledge andcapacity building to help the government and NGOs.

Omar Asghar Khan, Minister of Environment, Local Government and RuralDevelopment made a few opening remarks as chair, and emphasized the need forinput from the participants to validate the report. He then introduced Tariq Banuriwho presented his paper.

Presentation of Background Paper, Tariq Banuri, Research Advisor,Tellus Institute

Tariq Banuri then presented the SDPI paper, summarizing the main chapters andfollowing the outline of the executive summary. He closed by stating that aconservation program should use community pariticipation and collaboration.Natural Resource conservation and poverty reduction programs should be allignedwith sustainable livelihoods programs.

Omar Asghar Khan, Minister of Environment, Local Government and Rural

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Development made a few comments regarding the paper. He mentioned that theGovernment is already looking at the problem of finances and feels that weshould save expenditures from defense. He emphasized the need to createawareness among people of environmental issues. With regard to policy, heassured the group that activity will hopefully be taking place soon toenvironmentally sensitize each sector ie corporate, government, etc. With regardto poverty alleviation, he emphasized the use of export led growth with thepurpose of protecting the poor. He discussed poverty further and mentioned thatInstitutional arrangements and policy frameworks are important. Forestry andenergy for renewables are important. He also felt the need for us to concentrateless on global projects and more on projects that are people friendly and peopleoriented (Hydrel projects). The Minister then left saying that he would return forthe recommendatins session and Dr. Amir Mohammed took over as chair.

Reports bearing on the National Conservation Strategy Mid TermReview, Asif Zaidi, Head IUCN Islamabad, Pakistan EnvironmentalProgram Manager

Asif Zaidi then presented his paper on the NCS Mid Term Review.

Discussion and Chair’s comments

Dr. Mohammed initiated the discussion indicating that the mother of all evils isbad governance and rampant corruption. He stated that all efforts can be madeuseless without proper governance. He agreed that export led growth isimportant, but we have a very illiterate populations which handicaps us and mustbe taken into account. Even if all other factors are remedied; governance is fine,we eliminate corruption and the economy improves; the first five years, will seesustainability provided for by agriculture. Only then will we be able to thinkabout export led growth.

Dr. Mohammed continued by drawing attention to the lack of marketing researchin agriculture. Also, product processing and post harvesting doesn’t exist inPARC. He said that this is part of the institutional problem. Pakistan needs amarketing and post harvest program in place in order to facilitate the process offinding export markets.

Ali Habib, WWFHe reflected that the discussion highlights the problems of the current economyand what can be done about it. He emphasized that this was not enough and thatPakistan’s Leadership has to make up and create a vision for improvement. Hedrew attention to Pakistan’s not fulfilling the expected outcomes of the greenrevolution or energy renewability. The latter is a current option, especially in theareas of Balochistan which are uninhabited. Organic cotton is another option, hepointed out, which is being accepted by the markets of the west. We have the

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expertise of human resources, he said, but we need to find entrepreneurs who willpromote such new options.

Anwar Nasim, ComstechHe stated that we have a dilema. We drew attention to our ability to identifyproblems in any field and manage to identify issues. He then expressedfrustration with our habit of ignoring earlier recommendations as being part of theproblem. He recommended the need for a mechanism to use this sectoralfeedback. Often, when things do not work, we create a façade of making themwork. He posed the challenge of instituting a mechanism which can improvethings six to seven years down the road, such that we can show how we haveimproved.

A great deal has already been proposed• Identifying the problem• Suggest solutions• Documents and ideas that address these, unfortunately much of which is

recommended is shelved

Amir Mohammed, ChairWe keep on making the same suggestions but nothing is really done. We need toeliminate the useless options and put together the workable suggestions.

Najib Murtaza, World BankHe mentioned that there is a conditionality of funds. The global environmentfund started six to seven years ago, to which Pakistan also contributes, but to datewe haven’t accessed much as we do not have the capacity to do projects on time,prepare for them, etc. He said that South Asian countries have been successfuland there are lots of pockets available around the world which we can’t seem totap into. He then questioned if it was only the government’s responsibility to doso.

Amir Mohammed, ChairHe agreed that lots of proposals exist, but none of them are from Pakistan.

Najib Murtaza, World BankHe explained that workable proposals are prepared with a lot of technicalassistance. He expressed frustration with the fact that the government sits backand puts restrictions on technical assistance . Meanwhile, there are arguments forand against them, but when these restriction are imposed nobody says that wehave the capacity and we don’t need technical assistance. This is another dilema.

Khawar Mumtaz, Shirkat GahShe began by stating that the tragedy is the workability of environmental projects.Poverty, environmental health and sustainable livelihoods are all problems facingpeople. She questioned how we should transform policy into action, which

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includes accountability and political will. She pointed to the need to buildcapacity and capability through examination of the elements of success for theNCS. She continued with the need to know what would work in thisenvironment. She mentioned that there are 50,000 ghost schools in Punjab andthat nothing actually comes out of them. She emphasized the need to completeinitial targets before moving onto other targets. Examples included spendingbillions on cleaning canals while people in rural areas having no land holdings.

Shaheed Khan, Asian Development BankHe suggested that the report should perhaps add one more point. What will be theshort term action plan and what were the recommendations from the previousworkshop.

Naila Hussein, Shirkat GahMs. Hussein drew attention to the latest Multi National Corporation invasion inagriculture. She mentioned that it’s self destruction seeds aggravate the existingindustrial problems. Furthermore, it increases our dependance on the west.

Various measures can be taken to protect our country from this invasion as traditional seeds are more friendly to our agricultural environment than new ones.

Amir Mohammed, ChairThere has been discussion about these seeds on the international level and it hasbeen decided that these seeds won’t be sold.

Haroon Ayub Khan, ConsultantHe mentioned that one of the reasons for the failure of the environmental agendais that it has viewed sectorally and has not been integrated. He emphasized theneed for practical suggestions as well as increased political will to make it work.Advocacy work on environmental issues and a review of the environmentalstrategy for Pakistan needs to take place and the existing Pakistan EnvironmentalProtection Council should be used for such activity. He concluded by saying thatthere should be no more delays and accountability needs to be assigned.

Mishka Zaman, Sungi FoundationShe agreed that the environmental agenda cuts across a lot of different sectors.We need to look at local land structure, ownership pattern and ensure thatimplementation occurs and that there is more equitable resource sharing. Also,institutional transformation is necessary and we need to plan in such a way thatthe next 5 to 6 years is not wasted waiting for a key for problems being solved.She concluded with emphasis on the need for a political will to prevail.

Amir Mohammed, ChairIn agreeing with Ms. Zaman, he drew attention to Pakistan’s irrigation system, thebackbone of Pakistan’s agricultural survival, and that it’s deterioration willthreaten its existence over the next ten years. Three recommendations were made

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at the time of the Indus Water Treaty, but two of them were removed (due tointernal politics in the decision making process) and settled on simply drawingattention to the issue rather than doing anything (they said lets measure theamount of water in each watershed and publish it). The issue of recommendationimplementation also needs to be taken into account.

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonThe process by which the environmental agenda is being amended needs to betaken seriously. There is a positive role of environmentalists in civil society andthis strategy paper will get feedback for review. He emphasized that we can’ttake a negative view of the environmental sector in realizing our achievements.

The Ministry of Environment is working with UNIDO on environmental policy.The Ministry of Environment did work on biodiversity, action plan, hospitalwaste management, etc and are moving forward. He emphasized that the MOEhas been very responsive but the MOE iteself is a victim of the process. Heconcluded by stating that we need to identify the bottlenecks and decide on howto improve on them.

Asif Qureshi, SDPIHe emphasized that Industry should be involved in all environmental activities.The good things that MNCs are involved in, such as better management of wasteand its recycling should be shared with other industries, especially transportationof goods. This is because all transportation needs are being given to two or threecompanies within the next three years to meet ISO 9000 management standards.In a country where the community is poor, we should have more interaction withMNCs and learn from the expertise and experiences of others.

Shahid Zia, SDPIHe referred to Ms. Hussein’s previous comment on terminator technology. Heagreed that we shouldn’t depend on promises of companies to treat us equitablyand fairly. Other countries have designed legislation to keep these firms out andwe should too.

Amir Mohammed, ChairHe agreed on the need for banning trials, but he also mentioned that the GMOsare not always bad if the work is done sensibly and responsibly.

Asif Shujah Khan,He started by saying that the main problem is not with political will but thebureaucratic will. There is a tendancy for bureaucrats to kill or slow downproposals. Whenever we are discussing environmental strategy, we need toincorporate all levels of stakeholders and decision makers. In a 5 year plan, Rs.21 million of allocation, the actual expenditure was Rs. 4 million. Why did EPRCprojects consume only 67% of resources? He stated that our priorities and

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resource allocations are 180 degrees apart and they need to go together. Hesuggested that we first need to clean our priorities. Secondly, resource allocationshould be accordingly directed. Then, even if good priorities exist, supportingfunds from the mechanism of allocation of resources are important.

Najeeb Murtaza, World BankHe began by saying that these are the real problems of implementation aswhatever money is allocated for each department, 70% relapses and is eitherreappropriated or presented again under new conditions. Of the 30%, 10% iswhat you see as results on the ground, 10% is spent uselessly and the remaining10% goes God knows where. In order to take the environment seriously, we needto assure proper fund allocation and direction. Secondly, during projectimplementation, maintenance funds should be available. Usually, theinfrastructure is there, but not maintained and in the end, infrastructure then goesto waste.

Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPIHe indicated that information had been collected on environmentalexpenditures. Such information is needed to lobby with the Finance Minister tojustify additional funding. If that information was included, on a separate line inthe public sector annual plan, the change in expenditure could be tracked andexpenses could seen from year to year. The percentage of the budget allocated tocapacity building was much less that one percent of the small allocation. Heconcluded by stating that this small amount for capacity building is ridiculous.

Tariq Banuri, TellusTariq began by explaining the different views on all of this. He continued toexplain that if more money had been allocated, it probably would have beenwasted. EPRCP had lots of research money, a lot was used and it is unknown asto what is happening to that research. What we need is a way to spend moremoney efficiently. We don’t have GEF projects as we can’t write projects andalso because we can’t spend the money. We need to focus on the capacity tospend money, not at the research level but at the implementation level. Anymoremoney spent on some projects would simply be wasted as the critical amountrequired for research has been reached.

Another important issue, he explained, is ease of implementation which has to bemade easier and smoother in order for projects that have been approved at the topto filter down across all levels. Essentially, he explained, everyone needs to be onthe same wavelength.

The focus needs to be on progress made with Community Based Organizationsand this needs to be built on. Particularly, the municipalities, which areexperiencing a lot of wastage, need to be made better informed as to theirobjectives and need to serve the interests of the community. He explained that

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CBOs often get frustrated when projects and initiatives are not embraced with thesame sense of urgency from the government.

He continued with the need to formalize successes and use them as a basis formoving forward, replicating the ‘essential elements’ in other situations andcontexts where the same benefits can be hopefully achieved. The need for aplatform was also stressed to build policy and as a means to mobilize resourceseffectively and efficiently. Flagship projects in organic cotton and solar energywill be important to signal successes and motivate other projects, but a platformor mission statement/objective is still required.

We can build upon Individual developments as well as CBOs and NGO activities.Finally, he mentioned that what is really needed however is buy in and supportfrom the municipalities. At the local level, this will assist in building a platformfrom the ground up. Advocacy and education thus becomes a continuous process.

The major lacking elements are summarized as follows:

• Lack of implementation, plans are laid out but no one is there to followthem through. (CBOs, municipalities, players and stakeholders are not onthe same wavelength).

• Market incentives are required to influence the behaviour of the privateSector. Privatization has its place of course, but it needs to be monitoredso that the needs of those with less buyer power are not left behind.

• Is the mechanism and project being implemented usable? This willtranslate into its maintenance by the people involved.

• Mainstream market approaches work, the question is how to proceed.• Poverty strategies must be linked to CBOs in its eradication, and working

towards it, we need to learn how to do it properly, so that we avoidindirect damages and side effects.

• Agriculture is critical to development strategies as it will house and feedthe poor. Also, any advances that are made must put technology in thehands of the poor.

• Market based incentives should be incorporated into building materials,solar energy and raw energy materials that will give resources back to thepoor.

One part of our work over the past 10 years that has shown origins of progresshas been working closely with the corporate sector. However, he continued, thefocus on government policy has slowed down commitment and interest. Thatgenerates the basis of asking for more money.

Secondly, we need to think of the environmental agenda that focus on thecommunity. He also stated the need to address municipalities, where despite thelarge amounts of money that have been going into it (urban dept. programs), therehas been little progress.

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He concluded by stating the need to look at areas where we have been successful,formalizing them and using them for future endeavours.

Tracking capacity issues which provide incentives for people is also important asvery few insitutions have capacity to implement expensive projects.

According to Dr. Banuri, we need a platform that recognizes who has beensuccessful, the larger groups and what the people of Pakistan are interested in.We need to house renewable energy projects (solar energy, organic cotton) andwe need a platform to do them.

We have the momentum in the industrial areas and we should build on that. We should do the same, for the community. We have no momentum in the

municipalities and we need to address that.

Lastly, he made a comment on advocacy and monsanto. Advocacy is acontinuing process. A program which is constructive in some way shouldn’t stifleadvocacy. It should provide a framework that can make advocacy more effective.

Must understand the platform very clearly so that action can be more effective.The platform we’re emphasizing is already built on action so that they can gainmomentum.

Discussion Continued

Asif Zaidi, IUCNWe need to make project proposals better but also the removal of structuralbottlenecks from planning and department divisions. Also with implementationthere should be communication throughout the process, especially with relevantdecision makers. We should capture the factors responsible for successes andfailures. NCS should remain our only child. The second will is the public willand advocacy is important here. Once we agreee on a platform to launch things,advocacy should carry the momentum through.

Aziz Bouzaher, World BankMr. Bouzaher represented the World Bank’s wholehearted support for the Asian

Development Banks’ suggestion to look at the short, medium and long termapproaches during the break out sessions. As suggested by some of the workshopattendees, he said that the focus on poverty is definitely welcome as we are re-focusing the Bank’s corporate environment strategy on contributing to povertyoutcomes. He concluded by saying that the World Bank would like to see howenvironmental issues in Pakistan will be operationally linked to poverty. He alsowelcomed the proposed strategic framework in the SDPI paper which proposes a3-part agenda: environmental health, sustainable industrial development, and

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sustainable livelihoods. He noted the very close similarities with the Bank’sproposed framework.

Amir Mohammed, ChairAmir interjected by mentioning that not much has been said on vehicular

emissions and he hoped it would be discussed in the context of the NCS.

Khawar Mumtaz of Shirkat GahIn terms of implementation of policy, she discussed political and bureaucraticwill. These obstacles slow the momentum down, in her eyes, in many of thethings that people assume will take their agenda forward. We need focus.Referring back to the issue of governance, and policies and action plans she saidthat when they are translated, inspite of everything, the importance of advocacyneeds to be recognized by the governemnt for it needs to take all aspects on boardto move forward at a proper rate.

Abdul Mateen Khan, SDPIMr. Khan said that we need experience in implementing transparent processes. Itshould broaden ownership of the process of strategic planning through the use ofworking groups at the regional and provincial levels as well as specialized groupsworking on each ideasimultaneously.

Anwar NaseemMr. Naseem commented that the group is making recommendations withoutspelling out how they’ll be implemented or who will implement them.

Ali Habib, WWFRecently, the Ministry of Environment approved a document for the biodiveristy

action plan and according to Mr. Habib, a couple of pages list future plans ofaction with short and long term goals. He suggested that photocopies be madeavailable where relevant about what we are talking about.

Amir Mohammed, ChairHe emphasized that Pakistan’s legal system is excellent, but in the end, thepolitical and judicial will and honesty of purpose to implement laws etc. is notthere.

Shahid Rahim, NEPRAHe outlined his assessment of the current situation as follows;

• There is a lack of integration between the national environmental agendaand the national government agenda. The two agendas are being followedin complete isolation of each other. The NCS is very important but in thegovernment agenda, the NCS is completely missing.

• There is a lack of institutional capacity. Don’t have adequate informationto plan and manage sustainable development. The government hasn’t

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planned any integrated framework at the decision making level. We can’tanalyze cost and benefits of any departmental programs. The main criteriais still economics and finance not environmental considerations.

• Overemphasis is on privatization. It is not a panacea for our ills, unlikewhat the report says, and it needs to be pursued carefully or else we mighthave more problems.

• Include renewable energy resources missing from the agenda, The reportimposes pollution taxes as a market incentive to oversee energy wastage,but the report should also address the improving of energy technology.Also, pollution incentives should be provided. Price distortions needmarket prices that truly reflect cost benefits of the environment.

Tariq Banuri, TellusTariq clarified that there is a place for privatization and market forces. Theyshouldn’t be seen as a panacea. The report has given selective emphasis toprivatization, that’s where it belongs and can be used. In the human department,traditonal market mechanisms produce negative results. Agriculture plays animportant role in the poverty mechanism. He continued by saying that agricultureis also a sector in which technology was placed at the disposal of the poor in amanner that no other technology has been. It shouldn’t be restricted toagriculture. There are other ways of providing access to technology to the poortoo (energy, industry, etc).

He concluded by summarizing the following,• There is a place for market mechanisms.• Alternative approaches to diverting resources back to the poor.• Should be explicit mention of renewable energy.

Aziz Bouzaher, World BankAlthough concetually desirable, it is very difficult to implement efficienteconomic mechanisms to reduce pollution. As yet, pollution incentives are verytheoretical, but the work done in Pakistan –particularly involving industry, NGO,and GOP-- on the design of a pollution charge is very encouraging.

Asad Naqvi, SDPIAsad indicated that we don’t know the cost of environmental damages andenvironmental remedying and there is a need for data before taxes and charges arepursued.

Syed Jamy, IUCNMr. Jamy drew attention to the example of the Sarhad Conservation Strategy, nowin an advanced stage. There is not enough money to implement the entirestrategy. They have created a sectoral and multi sectoral round table tomainstream environmental and sustainable development concerns. All

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stakeholders, representatives, public and private were represented and it hashelped inform them all.

Abdul Mateen Khan, SDPIDetermining pollution charges was a consultative process. We have alreadyagreed on a principle of calculating surcharges. We need to institutionalize theprocess and it stands a good chance of success.

M. Khawaja, SDPI.There are very positive signs of success in that it’s been done through aconsultative process.

Najeeb Murtaza, World BankNajeeb indicated that we need to look at the logistics of implementation.

Lunch

Breakout Sessions

Session I Sustainable Livelihoods and Natural ResourceManagementChair Amir Mohammed, President of Asianics Agro Development Int’lRap Faisal Haq Shaheen

Amir Mohammed, ChairDr. Amir Mohammed began by stating that the poverty profile is not uniform andwe need more empowerment. Connected to this is the technology required topromote organic agriculture and there is a need for its marketing. Long termaction is required especially on the forestry (satellite imagery, monitoring), water,range management livestock and watershed management issues and theirmonitoring aspect needs to be included in the report and updated in terms of thedata presented and analyzed. New forest policies are being discussed along with .poverty of resources and the overall planning and developing of policies. Districtstaff need to be educated in order to ensure that community developmentapprovals and projects don’t fall back to the old established power structures.

The poverty agenda needs to be private sector led as the government efforts of thepast have failed and hindered progress. Furthermore, Dr. Amir Mohammedcontinued that we need a mechanism for taking commitment to a larger scale andsuch a mechanism is presently unknown.

How do NGOs, CBOs and institutions interact? We need to do this in order tocreate a framework and mechanism for poverty eradication and sustainablelivelihoods.

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Dr. Amir Mohammed, ChairDr. Amir Mohammed shared his views on the eradication of poverty by sayingthat we need to raise income sustainably and avoid the dependance syndrome byusing mechanisms that increase the income of the poor without continuing to hurtthe environment.

Tariq Banuri, TellusThe green revolution technology, at the local level, did not agree withand match the local culture and therefore could not be taken to a larger scale. Sohow are we to do it? This agenda is already mechanized as part of the NCS. Whatwe need to do is establish the priorities of various institutions, examine interplayand their linkages and essentially, examine how to improve productivity andreduce duplication of our mechanisms. Tariq continued by stating that the greenrevolution had some positive impacts because the simplicity at certain levels wasadequate and that anyone could use it.

Mishka Zaman, SUNGIIt is important to notice that the poor are different in profile and solutions cannotbe applied in different scenarios to solve seemingly similar problems. The NCSdoes address the plight of the rural poor.

Tariq Banuri, TellusThere are trade offs with the green revolution, as it brought significant pollutionin addition to some gains and improvements and resources have already beendegraded. However, increased political will doesn’t mean we are degradingpoverty. We need a radically different approach in the way of communitymobilization as the machinery at the local level is inadequate (although better thananything else we have tried to work with at the local level).

So, in essence, we need community mobilization.

Naseer Tareen, ConsultantMr Tareen began by saying that if all of Pakistan’s land capacity was used, wewould see productivity increase with modern technology. He also mentioned thatco-operative farming has not worked in the past and should be discontinued.

In order to achieve the long term goals, we need to start at the end and workbackwards by multi tasking and integrating sectors.

He then proposed the following for reducing rural poverty.• Need decisions that citizens are involved in (livelihood economies of

decision making)• Need land reform. The problem is that local land lords grab the leadership

and the cycle of old returns again. Sanctions and empowerment in thesecontexts kill.

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• Growth should be gradual, as there is a possibility that we could buildtheir capacity. Southern Punjab is not similar to Sindh. We need to workwith local authorities and fit into what resources are available.

• Land reform needs to take place, to transpose models. In order to catchproblems in stride, we need an adaptive management system.

• Increase income through the production and supply of high value itemssuch as milk production and vegetables.

Naila Hussein, Shirkat GahNaila emphasized the need to organize the community and then empower them.As policies are not in place that are conducive to this, we must place and intitiatethem. It is important to tailor each model to each situation. While we may nottell the locals what to do, we at least must offer them educated and tailoredalternatives.

Shahid Zia, SDPIBengali farmers successfully phased out chemicals, increased income, increasedproduction and increased pricing over a period of 5 years. They developedbiodiversity enriching agricultural practices without hindering but ratherincreasing productivity and reduced their dependancy on the market.

Aziz Bouzaher, World BankThere is a huge pressure on the natural resources base of the country and a stronglinkage to poverty (as a large proportion of Pakistani poor live in rural areas anddepend on natural resources for their livelohoods). We need “more voice” for thepoor and a tailored, community development approach. This needs to includeformalizing community structures so that we can realize higher and greater scalesof application. This also involves altering the power structure and empoweringusers, farmers, and communities.

Naila Hussein, Shirkat GahNaila summarized her concerns as follows;

• Profile of rural poverty differs. Need stocktaking of existing resourcesand resource sharing

• Objective should be to empower communities to use resources availableto them. Need an analysis of what is happening.

• Need income increased. Organic farming; need packages of technologythat work, otherwise the road ahead is rough. We need marketing of highvalue products (production to sale type of mentality).

• The negatives that we need to be wary of are non progressive landlordsand we need education for agricultural farmers.

Dr.Amir Mohammed, ChairDr. Amir Mohammed then added, that if we start planning carefully, with

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vegetables and fruits, the we can upscale to tougher, riskier crops. There are moreareas which are turning a big profit. The Bengali farmers are working on varietiesthat actually repel insects and increase production.

Naseer Tareen, ConsultantThe raising of Balochistan livestocks is mis-analyzed and is not marketed. Thenumbers are increasing and there is increasing pressure on land grazing as well asother negative effects. We need considerable work in this area.

Microcredit issues• Not enough land to give• Use of visiting land• Institution of grazing resources• Microhydrels• Need to ask for larger packages and better resource use.

Essentially, Mr. Tareen recommended that we organize communities, providetechnical assistance and establish institutions.

Mishka Zaman, SUNGIMishka emphasized the inter dependance of communities and that larger needscan’t be supported by one community but rather institutions which will convergeon one area in one forum. She also added that the better package referred to inmarketing and harvesting should increase income (harvesting to marketing)

District management systems of government training programs and the civilservices academy should introduce proposals. Rural Support Programs work inrural Pakistan.

Specific report comments made by the group are as follows:

The document needs a positive vision for the future. It needs to address water andforests. For example, 10% of forests are well protected, need quantitative goalsthat can be maintained and measured. Annual supply of wood is 6 to 7 million.Our policy to import wood from sustainably harvested timber forestries isnecessary. We need swift action on this. We also need agricultural biodiversity.

• We need a collective responsibility for and ownership for Pakistan, fromthe World Bank, government and the civil society.

• Monitoring issue needs to be covered so that we can account for data andcollection. There has been a gap in the past.

• Satellite imagery for creation of benchmarks and monitoring.

• We need institution building and capacity building at some levels still.

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Government needs to stop talking about it and do it, especially at themunicipal level. Also, we need more NGO activity in poverty erradicationas we have seen government efforts fail repeatedly.

Dr. Amir MohammedWater issues, both inland and shoreline, are massive areas of concern and needscoverage. Agricultural runoff, and the high cost of resources is taking its toll.There seems to be no intention of succession and the old department will continueits current path. Dr. Amir Mohammed continued to say that we need to associatewith other disciplines and work on water contamination, water logging andsalinity issues. This is affecting fisheries, which are doing poorly due tomunicipal waste in the harbours and increased ship traffic. Fish harvesting is nowbecoming impossible within the current harbour marine environment.

Session II Sustainable Industrial and Energy DevelopmentsChair Asif Shujah Khan, Director General, Environmental Protection AgencyRap Abdul Mateen Khan

Asif Shujah Khan, ChairAsif opened up the seminar by indicating that the results of the breakout sessionsare designed to prepare for the implementation of an already existing strategy.The increase in emissions in Pakistan is due to industry. At present, the level ofemissions is up 11.9% and consumption up to 16% of TOE. Every year,emissions increase by 1%, and we forecast levels to be at 17.4% by the year 2010.

The goal is to sustainably develop export led growth.(Comments: other areas alsoand not only exports should be focussed on).

To achieve: Market based instruments and pollution charges etc.Provisions of fiscal incentivesMainstreaming of environmental programs.

Recommendations

• Effective implementation of the NEQS� Prioritize process due to cost factor

• Scale is already graduated. It is manageable and industry has alreadyagreed to support it.

• Does NEQS represent a license to pollute? They are anyways andafter year 6, it will be cheaper to clean than to pollute.

• Collective benefit to industry.• NEQS and ESC proceedings, Now a common man can get protection

from the law via the Environmental Tribunals.• Factors

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� Awareness� Environmental projects have an economic rationale;

Absenteeism being reduced as health improves� International factors such as requirements of ISO in

various contracts with customers requires anenvironmental forum.

• Cost of clean production is high• Proper conditions need to be created. Waste management and

recycling first. This would create a demand for start up and the supplyside is ready.

Would PEP EPAs have a capacity for auditing a given percentage of returns?

Abdul Mateen Khan, SDPIWe need broader participation from specialist groups.

Shahid Rehman of NEPRA• Integration of NCS and 5 year plan even within the 2010 program is not

properly planned.• Institutional capacities need to be built• Over emphasis on privatization• Renewable energy needs to be included• Pollution charges and incentives/market based economic instruments

Tariq Banuri, TellusComments on privatizationAgricultural factor and technological provision is necessary to provide help forthe poor. We need institutional arrangements to support such goals.

Gul Najam Jamy, IUCNNew institutions need not be created. Sectoral approach is recommended.

Najeeb Murtaza, World BankWorld Bank is publishing a report on the case study in Columbia. It is relevant tomarket based instruments.

Asif Shuhah Khan, ChairPollution levels will have to checked after a specified time on a continuous,periodic basis.

Saadat AliWe need to apply pressure on industry to conform to NEQS standards.

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Atta MohammedThere is the WTO factor. As far as restrictions due to health and now theenvironment are concerned. The market may also impose restrictions andincreased awareness and a pollution charge would help in achieving the success ofsuch instruments. Self monitoring is also an option, to create an environment forwhistle blowing.

Shahid Rahim, NEPRAEmission permits is also an alternative

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonSelf monitoring will work in Pakistan for fear of mutual competition andrequiring that data be made available.

Iqbal of ICIWe would support the self monitoring system

Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPI• Public information is a very good idea. A rating scheme for individual

units can be put in place.

MAKPrice will not be raised due to pollution chargeSelf monitoring will create way for Pollution Charges, but how will PollutionCharges clean industry? The permit scheme is not recommended.

Abdul Mateen Khan, SDPISupport will be given by larger industry to smaller ones who will eventually fallin line. Sampling not a big problem for liquid effluents but air pollution and pointsource discharges may be a problem. Industry should start with commitment.

Zehra AbbasSelf Monitoring feedback is necessary and the system needs to be wary of thehiding of information (e.g. tax system). EPAs should develop capacity to guideand/or to audit self monitoring systems.

MAKCertification is essential from some independent monitoring body. First liquideffluents should be monitored and then gaseous. EPA capacity building will takea long time. Incentives: reduction in taxes and duties

Tariq Banuri, TellusIf you don’t pollute, you don’t pay. Polluter should not have an advantage over

non - polluters. Shell International’s views, given clear and advance signals, itserves as incentives as well.

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Abdul Mateen Khan, SDPIActual lack of capacity is delaying the implementation of techniques and the flowof information and advanced levels of knowledge

Tariq Banuri, TellusIndustry wants incentives on pollution control equipment and clean fuels/lowemmission fuels.

Asif Qureshi, SDPIA common platform from the Ministry of Petroleum and the Ministry ofEnvironment will emerge after some discussion.

Asif Shujah Khan, Chair Fuel price is also an issue

Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPIDirty fuel is being subsidized (diesel) and we are subsidizing public transport.World Bank has expertise on restructuring the petroleum industry (Egypt) and thisshould be drawn upon.

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonThere is no difference between the two ministries (Environment and Petroleum).

Shahid Rahim, NEPRADiesel subsidy is being given to 150, 000 tube wells for diesel in Gujranwallawhich are having a serious environmental impact

Tarq Banuri, TellusEnergy efficiency should also be worked towards. An efficient industry iseconomical and low in consumption

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonEnercon is raising awareness and education. Economics will take care of the rest.

Institutions

Shahid Rahim, NEPRAPlanning division should consider improving efficiency before sanctioning a new

project.

Asif Qureshi, SDPIRenewable energy options should also be considered by the following:

• MoS&T for renewable energy• Enercon (MOE)• Director General Energy Resources and SDPI• MOW&PWR

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• NEPRA, which should develop an overall national integrated policy onenvironmental and energy.

MAKThere should be an institution like ESC for every issue. Ie a tri partite forum.

Asif Shujah Khan, Chair NGOs need to be partners and part of this process. Resource mobilization alsoneeds to take place but the question becomes, how do we generate funds?

Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPIWe should not depend on loans. Public sector programs should allocate funds forenvironment.

PTEnvironment is a defined sector in government accounts. It was doneindependently. Lack of capacity to develop projects is the issue.

Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPIBut it does not show up as a sector in the Public Sector Development Program.

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonNGOs and private sector should help government in preparing projects. Linkagebetween Governments and NGOs

PT There are many difficulties that are encountered in implementing PollutionCharges. Perhaps NGOs and the private sector could assist in the process.

Javed Ali Khan, ExxonThere is a totally separate budget for the environment.

Monitoring

JOINT Governments, NGOs and Institutions.

• Pollution charges• Self monitoring• Awareness short term to continuous• Promotion of ISO system medium term to long term• Capacity building of regulatory bodies continuous• Incentives ongoing• Clean fuels and renewable energy medium term to long term• Education on energy efficiency short term to medium term• Institutions short term to continuous• MOS&T short term

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• ECNEC decision short term• Resource short term• Environment head• Monitoring short term to continuous

• Specific report comments: good framework

Session III Environmental Health and the Quality of LifeChair Khawar Mumtaz, Shirkat GahRap Fareeha Iqbal

Khawar Mumtaz, ChairKhawar initiated the discussion by stating that Solid Waste management withinthe urban centers should be looked at more closely. Also, we need the monitoringof health statistics. In terms of quality of life, etc. there should be more biologicalmonitoring to give an idea of the genetic diseases being carried.

Tariq Banuri, TellusThe data on health that is currently available is very poor. WHO/NHS statisticsare very poor. The number of incidences of communicable diseases in developingcountries is consistently on the rise; about 10 to 20 times more on a per capitabasis for Pakistan as compared to developed countries.

Anwar NasimDamage and its costs needs to be assessed. The health aspects need to be lookedat more closely in terms of quality of life. The burden of disease also must beexamined. Before tackling pollution, etc., we need to deal with the biologicaldisease factors. There is a much higher rate of children dying under 5 years thanof higher ages, mostly due to water borne diseases.

There needs to be a balancing of costs of remediation vs. cost of damage. Thiswill be very difficult. There is a lot of raw data, from which everyone jumps toconclusions without really knowing the measurements or what it all means. Thisforces people to look away from the critical issues such as water quality,sanitation, etc. and focus on trivial issues. Even scientists need to be educated inprocessing environmental information. We can’t measure ambient environmentalpollution the way developed countries do. We must use surrogate markers.

Tariq Banuri, TellusIf we have consensus on selected indicators, that focuses the mind of independentresearchers, we can then work with imperfect data and create a demand for it torefine the data. To a certain extent, there will be repetitions. This doesn’t matter,but the data should be comparable. Thus we should agree on a set of indicatorsand use them for a certain period of time. Some simple things can be started

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early, without increasing institutional support; certain kinds of data can bemeasured immediately which may prove very useful later.

NuvaidNot too much data within the report. It would be useful to list what’s availableeven in terms of anecdotal data. We need baseline data on urban and rural areas.

Tariq Banuri, TellusThere is an annex on data sources in the report.

NuvaidIn his perspective, there is not enough mention of issue of depletion of urbanwater resources. As groundwater table starts depleting, mid size cities will beaffected. The first demand of people in Punjab’s rural areas is solid wastemanagement. Linkage with water because solid waste chokes drains. The majorproblem is waste disposal - lacks primary treatment. Raw sewage is pumped intowater canals. As water supply increases, there are not enough outlets to get rid ofmunicipal waste water. There is a fairly intricate relation between these issues,addressing them and government institutions. The report needs to recognize theway these issues are addressed.

One indicator could be f. coliforms in water. There are many reasons for theirpresence. Everything but this has been measured; f. coliforms are not beingmeasured at all. It is more important than measuring potential carcinogens likecarbon. Cheap technical methods can be used. There are no labs measuring f.coliforms at any level. They’re measuring coliform but it’s not enough.

Khawar Mumtaz, ChairHigh priority issues include

• Water quality• Waste water disposal• Solid waste disposal• Air quality• Monitoring

� Can assess water quality on the spot• Pesticides• Wastewater for irrigation• Food quality

Most critical for Pakistan from the point of view of diseases is the measurementof f. coliform. A very high proportion of mortalities are due to f. coliforms inwater. So the measurement of f. coliform should be the highest priority. But weneed information on other factors, as they are all interlinked.

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If simpler factors can be identified, an effective start could be made immediately.Also, regional indicators have to be taken into account. All existing indicators arebiased towards urban quality. There should be local indicators that people can seeeach week in the newspaper, which will generate interest and spur some action.

General Discussion, Water QualityWHO standards are being used. Municipalities (such as CDA) have monitoringlabs at the water sources but not at the point of consumption. This should bedone on a continuous basis at selected distribution points. We need to identifyappropriate indicators for the afore-mentioned 7 areas for monitoring

We need to make monitoring mandatory and enforce external quality checks.Usually, CDA randomly monitors quality every 2 to 3 months, but the data is notreported to any agency. Monitoring should be done regularly and consistently andaccurately reported. Water supply utilities should be doing their own qualitymonitoring - although the public wouldn’t trust data put out by an independentagency. Which lab is an independent institution and trusted by the people?

Existing institutes have performed badly in the past. Responsibility should beclearly designated and data should be externally checked and perhaps endorsed bythe government. The issue is then how do we make a monitoring/watchdogsystem. Information should be going somewhere where it can be verified andthen made public. It was suggested that perhaps this could that be the task ofprovincial EPAs. There are many instances where official reports weresuppressed re: diseases etc. because they reflected badly on regional authoritiesPerhaps one agency could be made responsible for providing indicators and oneresponsible for the cross checking the data. For water, the agencies could beWAPA or EPA.

Air quality monitoring should rest only with the EPA – which is presently notdoing its job. Need someone provincially to make EPA deliver on its functions.They have equipment and funds, but nothing gets done. Why don’t they deliver?One option suggested in discussing these problems is to recommend an approachwhere people can access and question data. The provincial EPAs should be putunder a kind of public / private board that holds them accountable.

Khawar Mumtaz, ChairWe should look upon environmental health generically. We need to identifyissues, look for checks, and see how information can be made public.

There should be a set of indicators for each of the 7 issues identified. Also,agencies should be identified that are responsible for looking after these issuesand there is a need for other agencies to monitor these agencies.

The way forward is to pick one urban and one rural area and use these for a pilotstudy. EPAs should be used and within them a public/private board should be

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created so that there’s some accountability and transparency provided for and tocitizens.

NWFP EPA is lacking in powers and capacity, and handles very large dataquantities. Existing institutes need to be made more accountable through anoverseeing body. It was also suggested that a set of measurable indicators bedrawn up so that these can be made at any locale. We need regional data, but itmust be compatible.

Some environmental indicators are highly sophisticated. For example, in Pakistanthere isn’t a single ambient-ozone measuring facility (in ppm). Furthermore, a lotof environmental monitoring has to de-mystified, and shown that it is actuallyquite simple, and can be done locally. It was pointed out that we are not doing thebasics, (e.g., certain types of monitoring are simple enough to involveschoolchildren in).

It was also added that there should be standardized data monitoring and collectionmethods. A watchdog mechanism is necessary through which public/privateboards get reported to periodically. This needs to be done at the local level (on apilot basis) in the beginning.

The issues was then raised as to who should do the monitoring in rural areas.It should be a joint effort between the public sector agency and civil society.Water was being provided by public health agencies. Now it is increasingly beingdone by communities themselves. So the body responsible for provision of watershould also be responsible for monitoring.

But, the EPA does not normally operate in rural areas. as it does not have thecapacity.

Local communities that have taken charge of water provision would be able to dosimple testing – probably they would be keen to do it, as it is in their own interest.Educational institutions could also participate. The EPA has to be the datarepository at the provincial level.

Tea

Afternoon Session, Chair, Omar Asghar Khan, Minister ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development

Breakout Reports to Plenary

Next Steps and Vote of Thanks, Shahrukh Rafi Khan, ExecutiveDirector, SDPI

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Shahrukh Rafi Khan, SDPIThe Objectives of the report included the following

• It was supposed to assist in providing material for the NationalConservation Strategy Mid Term Review

• It was also supposed to provided recommendations for the Ministry for itsown strategic thinking on the issue.

• It is hoped as a result that their processes will continue to providemomentum to the PEPC in pushing ahead with the environmental agenda.

General Remarks

Pakistan is not in a position to take more loans. We need to put strategies intoplace that will tap into existing monies that are available.

Good policies tend to be cheap and emphasis needs to be on them. Cheap in thesense that they are easy to employ and do not require high levels of technicalknowledge or know how. Transportation, water subsidies etc. need to be removedand individual incentives created for the right institutional behavior from anenvironmental perspective.

Specific Remarks related to PEPC

For 130 million people, 2 tribunals is not enough. We need continuousmonitoring to be put in place to manage and monitor the meeting of objectivesand goals through milestone identification and benchmarking. Technicalmembers need to be appointed.

The time has come for action. The EPA has the capacity to audit a reasonableamount of returns and attach a pollution charge.

We also need to notify the NEQS and how their work will come into play. Thereshould be no further delay on the imposition of the pollution charge as a system iswarranted. We would like to see some progress made in an area where technicalassistance could be solicited. We need discussions on the use of clean fuels.Also, institutionalization of the monitoring of the PEPC is needed. Members needto be informed of the actions and be allowed to input on proceedings. A futureagenda item might include data collection and annual assessment.

Chair’s Concluding Remarks, Omar Asghar Khan, Minister ofEnvironment, Local Government and Rural Development

The Minister opened by stating that there is now space to get the environmentalagenda moving within Pakistan. WTO meetings in Seattle saw civil societymobilize, advise and provide input to the government on Pakistan’s positions.Civil society needs to build on this leadership.

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We also need to open up government related information pathways and lines ofcommunication. The Government also has a strong emphasis on povertyreduction, deprivation and this must be dealt with. Degradation is caused more bythe state, its actions, and lack of clarity on property rights. This matchesgovernment approach to devolution. What is done in this report is very importantfor government policy. Models exist already which address key items and can beworked on.

We also need cost effective projects. There is a need for a stronger environmentalmovement throughout all sectors. Pressure causes the government to dosomething about the problems. The government needs to be careful aboutaccepting projects. For example, whether they are done on areas of renewables ,solar power etc. These are new areas and solutions to key problems. Growthneeds to be for poor people and there is a strong linkage between growth andpoverty. Need to create an environment where the government can bringresources into play.

The Minister emphasized that Export Led Growth needed to be looked at and tiedinto the equation. Important issue is looking at our own social, political andeconomic structures; state agencies and their responses.

Large groups manipulate the system and damage the environment. Key issuesthat need to be seen include the following:

• Land sales and distribution in urban areas is a difficult issue to address andneeds to mobilize the community.

• Government needs to give space to the people. NGOs are imperative andneed to support people’s movements whether if royalty purchase orfishermen etc. which have been neglected.

• Work needs to be done on government packages. NCS and WB supportPakistan’s environment program and there is a need to decentralize theseprograms.

• The institutional framework is needed to support the people and the locallevel for these projects and for this the government and

• NGOs need to work together. NCS needs to be looked at carefully todecentralize its actions now. More localized action, but policies andframeworks to support it.

• Need to look at our own socio economic political structures. Unless wehave institutional arrangements and a legal framework there is a dangerthat the large interest groups will manipulate the system, whetherregarding land, water or natural resources.