Can 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal of the year of death of our prophet “Rasoolollah Sallallaho Alaehi wasallam” occur on Monday? Emailing between these astronomers: "Ebrahim Senior" [email protected],"Khalid Shaukat" <[email protected]>, "Muhammad Odeh" <[email protected]>, [email protected], "Mashallah Ali-Ahyaie" <[email protected]>, "Omar Afzal" [email protected], "Shaikh, Salman Z (Salman)" <[email protected]>, "Your Friend Your Friend" <[email protected]>, "Abdoulaye GAYE" <[email protected]>, "Mutoha" <[email protected]>, [email protected]Introduction of the group of [email protected]All members of our group [email protected]are very much expert of Astronomy or very much interested in it, so it is not a group of both common and proper persons, all members of this group are VIPs of astronomy. Yes Br Odeh & Br Khalid Shaukat is not a part of this group, while Yallop, Dr Shahid, Dr Abdali etc are also in this group. It is another issue that they usually don’t participate in discussions due to their social activities as many recipients of current discussion are not taking part in discussion. Monday, February 2, 2009 11:11 PM From: "Sanaullah Bhutta" <[email protected]> To: [email protected]Dear Sir, AoA, Kindly help to find out the day send formula etc. The last year haj of Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad PBUH 9 th Zilah was Friday .and 12 th Rab-ul- Awal was monody. Can you draw chart of theses four months to prove that 12 Rab-ulAwal was Monday. How can we prove. Your early reply will be highly appreciated. Best wishes, Sanaullah Bhutta,Managing Partner, Al-Kausar Agencies, Offcie # 8 -Second Floor, Al-Shifa Plaza 6th / Murree Road Rawalpindi. Fax.+92-51 484 1664 - 4427715 [email protected]. [email protected]……………………………………………….. From: sultan alam [email protected]Wa alaikumussalam Kindly read the attached Urdu article and comment. Wassalam, Sultan
This document is posted to help you gain knowledge. Please leave a comment to let me know what you think about it! Share it to your friends and learn new things together.
Transcript
Can 12 Rabee-ul-Awwal of the year of death of our prophet
“Rasoolollah Sallallaho Alaehi wasallam” occur on Monday?
Look at the attached curves and on the pure scientific visibility based research, please
write the 1st date of each month according to Makkah or Madinah & Prove 12 Rabee-ul-
Awwal 11 A.H. on Monday.
I am discussing actual visibility not other thing.
Wassalam
Sultan
Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:27 AM
From: "Khalid Shaukat" <[email protected]> Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah, I have written about this on an answer to Question 13.3 on http://moonsighting.com/faq_ms.html#Dates Khalid Shaukat ………………………
Dear Br Sultan Alam, Salaam, Greetings; relying on the reported days by historian is much more correct than relying on dates for obvious reasons, explained by others, and implied in my article. Please kindly tell us from which software, you have obtained your curves. I am asking this since as it was discussed long back, a certain software was erred on the onset date of the Islamic lunar calendar. Why don't you check this important point on your applied software? Best regards, Mashallah ………………………….
Greetings; I asked you to compare the onset of the Islamic Lunar Calendar, from various soft wares you are using, to check if you ended up to the same date and result.
I think you agree now that one shouldn't try to fix both day and dates together, as reported in history, due to so many mistakes on dates, due to then incorrect fixing of the lunar months, like the current era.
Which article of mine are you talking about? I meant the one that I enclosed it to one of the preceding emails of mine, on Feb. 5, 2009.
1. Now I am sure that you are 99.99 % agree with Dr. Omar Afzal. Ok, nice. 2. Onset issue should also be discussed but separately, thus if you are interested then
kindly submit the question to our group and look what they reply.
3. As I think that now there is no more discussable thing regarding this issue of “12 Rabee-ul-Awwal 11 A.H. on Monday” hence Inshaallah after some days after
compiling I shall put our this discussion on my web for reference in future to save
i have posted this before on ICOP and got interested feedback from br Marshallah and br
Omar Afzal....i post here again and attach the word doc for ease of reading...
Crescent sightings in year 632 AD
Please see the below table showing the crescent ages in the last year of the prophet 632 AD in Medina. Particular interest is:
1) the solar eclipse on 27 Jan and the beginning of Dhul-Qida
2) the sighting of the hilal for Dhul-Hijja on 26 Feb when the moon age was only 18.5 hr and a lag time of only 34 mins!
3) and the sighting of Rabbi-al-awal (the month in which the prophet (s.a.w) died.
The only thing that does not really add up is the death of the prophet reported to be on 12 Rabi-al-awal ? from hadith this should be a Monday (but the below shows it could only be Saturday or Sunday ! but it does clearly show that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to begin the months as then Hajj would not fall on the Friday etc…
Wasalaam
Maqsood
All data from Mooncalc at ~”Best Time”
Year Date
Age
(hrs)
Lag Elong Alt
632 AD * Mon 27 Jan* 8.5 14m 3d 2d Medina Tues 28 Jan 32 1h 12m 15d 29m 10d
(1st Dhul-Qida 29 Jan) to 26 Feb = 29 day month
** Wed 26 Feb** 18.5 34m 8d 25m 4d
(1st Dhul-Hijja 27 Feb) to 27 March = 30 day month
Thurs 26 March 3.3 <1m 4d 45m 0d
Fri 27 March 27 53m 12d 30m 5d 26m
(1st Muharram 28 March) to 26 April = 30 days
Sat 25 April 12 23m 6d 22m 4d
Sun 26 April 37 1h 16m 16d 6d
(1st Safar 27 April) to 25 May = 29 days
*** Mon 25 May 21 45m 9d 3d
(1st Rabbi-al-Awal Tues 26 May)*** to 24 June = 29 days
Tues 23 June 6 10m 2d 1d 34m
Wed 24 June 31 55m 13d 4d 22m
(1st Rabbi-al-Thani 25 June) to 24 July = 30 days
Thurs 23 July 16.3 18m 7d 2d
Fri 24 July 41 55m 19d 4d
(1st Jumad-al-Awal Tues 25 July) to 22 Aug = 29 days
Sat 22 Aug 27 25m 14d 4d
*partial solar eclipse at time of prophet (see below diagram which br Mashallah provided some time ago in one of his papers)
** MUST have been seen on this day (18.5hr crescent) for 9 Dul-Hijja to fall on Friday (prophets last sermon was at Arafa on 9
th on the Friday))
*** 1st of Rabbi-al-Awal was Tues 26 May, prophet (saw) died 12 Rabbi-Al-Awal which is
Greetings, I think the concern of Br Maqsood is the same concern that I tried to convince you of choosing a reliable / fixed starting point in any chronology back calculation, especially in the Islamic lunar calendar, one is facing to the selection of 29-day lunar month instead of the 30-day one and vice-versa due to meteorological conditions, false claims, etc. One can't back calculate only based on a limited numbers of visibility curves. Why don't you have another look and start from Jan. 27, 632 C.E. (solar eclipse in Medina; Dr. Kh. Shaukat's Site and other sources, such as: Eclipse Predictions by Fred Espenak, NASA/GSFC"), and back calculate?
Greetings; please don't go away from Mr. Maqsood's Table, before reaching to a solid conclusion, in all respects.
Based on the Accurate Times soft ware, if I was not wrong, the enclosures are the visibility curves for May 25 & 26, 632 C.E. Also one should bear in mind that the probability of reporting a wrong day name is very rare. Thus if it is reported that the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal was on Monday, then the 1st of Rbiul-ul-Awwal, 11 A.H. should have been started on Thursday, May 27, 11 A.H., in Medina? Was the atmospheric condition a source of the discrepancies?
Regarding Monday, Biruni in his book of "Al-Äthär Al-Bäqiya, or The Chronology of Ancient Nations" has written: "...Wa soe'lah aan sowm yaowmal ethneen, faghal: "Zak yowm woledtoo feeh, wa boethtoo feeh, wa onzel aala feeh, wa hajartoo feeh". This is on page 421 of Chapter XX of the book which I have referenced thereto in my article, uoloaded before.
But, there is a solid conclusion from this Table, for the time being, when Br Maqsood writes: "but it does clearly show that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to begin the months as then Hajj would not fall on the Friday etc… " This point is a very good guide for those not yet correcting the onset of the Islamic Lunar Calendar, based on naked eye sightings, in their web site. Saying this, I want to emphasise once again that various issues are interconnected.
Best regards,
Mashallah
Sorry please read May 27, 11 A.H., as May 27, 632 C.E. ................................
Greetings; there should be a missing point in the whole arguments. In fact we are missing Br Mutoha's nice diagrams, a lot for for this discussion.
I have quoted your earlier email, and specially the comments / messages thereon, in the following, vis-a'-vis enclosing the visibility curves, from Accurate Times, for Thul Hejjah 10 A.H. (Wed. Feb. 26, 632 C.E.) and Thul Hejjah 10 A.H. (Thursday-Feb. 27, 632 C.E.), for the ease of reference: ………………………
Greetings; please kindly note that instead of going through details, yes or no is not a good approach for doing research and writing articles as important as you are writing.
As far as I know Dr Abdurrazzaq, from his ex wise comments and emails, in the last couple of years, he is quite a knowledgeable scholar, as you are, but please kindly request him to provide reasons for his recent comments, vis-a'-vis the visibility curves or you kindly explore reasons yourself thereof, based on the materials, so far within your reach.
1. Ok, fine I shall quote your these words in compiled version. 2. Dr Abdurrazzaq has received your email. He replies or not, it is his choice. 3. His explanation is hard, I know, but not impossible, hence I don’t have objection
on it because my question was only it that astronomically this can happen or not?
He proved it, although hardly, so I can’t refute him.
4. I think now there is nothing to discuss more from my side so probably it would be my last reply on this issue except in case of very necessity.
Wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah, Dear Sultan Saheb Please don't consider your research complete. I have to writ a detailed answer to this subject. Presently I am very busy with my wife's serious medical conditions, that's why I haven't been able to do that. Khalid Shaukat ………………………..
Greetings; thanks for the correction made. Please kindly concentrate firmly on the very important side result of this argument, and propagate it firmly to all, as Br Maqsood has written in his email, as follows:
"but it does clearly show that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to begin the months as then Hajj would not fall on the Friday etc… "
I would also say that: "It does clearly show that the conjunction of the moon could not have been used to begin the months, during the era of our Beloved Prophet Mohammad (PBuH) as the 12th of Rabi I, would not have fallen on Monday, as widely reported by all..."
This point is a very good guide for those not yet correcting the onset of the ritual Islamic Lunar Calendar (there had been then only the ritual one in practice), based on the local naked eye sightings, in their web site. You might remember that we went through this issue long back without any tangible result.