Colloquies With Foreigners by Bhaktisddhanta

8/13/2019 Colloquies With Foreigners by Bhaktisddhanta

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From bvml.org

Colloquies with Foreigners

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch o Berlin

!nterview with "roessor #ohans

Head o the De$artment o "hiloso$hy

St. %aviers College

Talk to Herr Baron H.&. 'on (oeth and Herr &.). Schul*e

Talk to Mrs. +ora Morell o )ermany

Talk to "roessor Dr. Stella (ramrisch, M.-., "h.D

!nterviews with Mr. illion Henri #an 'andor Stok o Bavaria
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"roessor -lbert &. Suthers !nterviews

The -uthor -nswers /uestions o

"roessor Suthers o 0hio 1niversity

Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch o Berlin

18 September 1931

/2What are the main features of your teachings?

-2We are agents who require help from outside to sustain our existence. he help that is coming to us at present

inadequate. !nadequacy is the normal condition of the present atmosphere. "n examination of our rationalisticprinciple shows that we require more help than our friends offer. We ha#e fi#e senses to pic$ up the $nowledge of

the ruth. We desire that we should be endowed with more $nowledge. %ur thirst is not quenched by the ordinary

$nowledge deducible from sense&perception a#ailable from the empiric professors. his impulse leads us toenquire as to how we can ha#e more $nowledge than can be had here.

We are also found to belie#e that there is an agency who is not furnishing the requisite $nowledge because we are

pro#ing ineligible for admission to the plane of adequate $nowledge. his is the source of the theistic conceptionregarding necessity in our existence to see the nature of apparent truths. 'ence also the conception of the necessityof the coming of the special agent of the absolute $nowledge( as our thirst is ne#er to be quenched by the supply o

the agents of empiric $nowledge who alone are ordinarily a#ailable here.

We should see$ for the )ountain&head of all $nowledge. !f we do not do so we find oursel#es poorly supplied. %u

capacity for retention of $nowledge also lea#es us when we choose to be con#ersant with local( temporary(apparent truths. he symbolical decepti#e *nowledge is presented when we neglect to see$ the connecting thread

of all $nowledge. " time comes when our physical equipment parts with all its seeming possessions.

he heistic conception refers to a )ountain&head where *nowledge is )ull and +#er&existing and can impart

incessant ,liss. We are pleasure&see$ers through the senses. he empiric #iew does not offer the facility to supplyus with incessant ,liss. here must be a heistic #iew. We ha#e to scrutini-e the position of absolute $nowledge(

+xistence and ,liss required by us. We must see$ for the place where the "bsolute $nowledge( existence and ,lis

is to be had.

!n athematics we get a glimpse of the fourth dimension. We are practically restricted to the third dimension by

our senses except for a #ery ha-y idea of direction only. /nless the fountain&head could be traced we cannot cease

from see$ing( or from being debarred and led astray from( *nowledge that supplies an enduring basis for trueexistence. We are thus compelled by the #ery direction of all our acti#ities to see$ after things which should be

called "bsolute. %r( to sum up( as we pass our days in the non&"bsolute region we should ha#e the impulse to ha#

access to the transcendental region.

!f we are not to ha#e full $nowledge( /n&ending 0ife( /n&interrupted ,liss( this life would be pessimisticexistence. We shall then submit to be born( grow and pass away without tac$ling the inadequacies of the

phenomena.

We should trace the )ountain&'ead( the eal 2ause from Whom all these ha#e emanated( not being content with

the agnosticism that pre#ails more or less at present.

We should see$ for more $nowledge than we get from our senses. We hope that some clue of the transcendentalworld should be recei#ed by us through a particular process un$nown to men with sensuous habits who are busy

with phenomena only( concocting many ideas about the future life. Some subscribe to metempsychosis( some to
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this life only( for completing all preparations for peace at the long end. hese #arying opinions do not satisfy for

the reason that they are secular. he tentati#e solutions offered by speculati#e philosophy are stained by this radicdefect. hey gi#e particular #iews that do not satisfy( being based upon mundane condition in#estigated through

the senses.

he "bsolute possessed of all *nowledge( +xistence( ,liss( can gi#e all that we are in need of. We are not in a

position to ad#ance one step beyond these three dimensions. We are restricted to the partial #iew. We cannot getthe whole impression of a globular sphere at a glance. Some turning or transformation of the angle of #ision is

required for the purpose of getting the full #iew. We get the #iew of only a quarter of the all&round. We see 18

degrees at a time. !f we want to see at our bac$s we ha#e to turn our head to that direction. hen half the sphere isexposed.

"t a glance we see only a quarter of the sphere of existence. So we are lac$ing in simultaneous grasp of the whole

idea. We should not therefore turn agnostics etc. When we fail to ha#e the full #iew fully at one time we should

$now that our determination of self concerns but an infinitesimal part of the fountain&head from Whom manythings ha#e emanated. We should on the contrary( trace 'im from where de#iation is not possible. he challengin

part is to ha#e no lien to de#iate from the )ountain&'ead.

"ny de#iation is only part and parcel of phenomena( not the whole thing. he immanent and transcendent are

ignored. We engage oursel#es in one thing with our whole attention( but the exposition of the thing gi#es a partialidea. !f the attributes are eliminated the original thing is to be sought in which many things are incorporated.

!ncorporation itself gi#es #ery little of the whole integer. %ur senses fail to get at the whole thing at one time.

%ur brain cannot accommodate )ullness( +#er&existence without beginning or ending of time. So the position ofthe "bsolute should be traced in the person of the "bsolute. he "bsolute was in the beginning( is existing in e#er

present phenomenon that will disturb the process of transformation and will destroy the phenomenal position. "ll

$nowledge will be distincti#e and will destroy and put a stop to these things.

,ut that thing should be traced out. We should acquire the conception of the thing through the senses at present.Sound gi#es impressions of ob4ects at a distance( li$e abstracted ideas from the concrete. "bstract ideas li$e charit

etc.( in a subtle form tend to capti#ate the brain in fa#our of perception and conception of things through the

senses. Sound con#eying impressions of phenomena requires corroboration from the four other senses and the

mind as well.

We re4ect sounds whose #alidity is required to be testified to by the other senses. he transcendental Sound has go

a distincti#e character. he sound from the fourth dimension recei#ed by the ear has got a special potency to clear

out all restricted ideas and to include e#erything of phenomena. he sounds we hear are meant to be restricted tothe third dimension( to be transcended by the fourth and higher dimensions. he transcendental Sound clears out a

impediments that bloc$ the path of the Sound.

he idea of immanence cannot be secured unless we brea$ down the molecules. /nless we brea$ them we cannot

go to the other side( transcend time and space. hat Sound will gi#e a clear signal( a free path( by which we canma$e some progress towards the "bsolute. hat Sound should be recei#ed through instruction. We should undo

what we ha#e recei#ed hitherto. here will be no loss. he distincti#e feature of that Sound is that it should

incorporate all reciprocal ob4ects along with the Sound. hat Sound should not be neglected because of its

distincti#e quality as coming from the ranscendent and so includes all and at the same time comes with allpotencies to clear out all sorts of un&aesthetic and wrong impressions recei#ed from our aptitude to en4oy the worl

which should not hamper our progress towards the )ull and +ternal.

We are only showing our natural aptitude and should not be denied. We should lend our ear to recei#e thetranscendental Sound. We should stop all our senses for the time being and recei#e the things and not merely their

attributions. he transcendental Sounds are gi#en us by the )ountain&'ead Who can ta$e the initiati#e. 'e is not 5


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!t 5. 'e is to be deemed as ale&oiety of the things( of the subser#ient phenomena. he transcendental Sound

should not lac$ any part of the !nteger.

he transcendental Sound is equipped with "ll&potency. "s the potency of Sound is restricted we find di#erse

existences in different things and are not in a position to recei#e things in full. 6artial conceptions also ma$e us

forget. We should sha$e off all other ideas and thoughts for the time being. We expect the "bsolute 0anguage

flowing into the ear to include all languages. !f we beha#e otherwise( that Sound cannot communicate itself to us.

he transcendental Sound has got innumerable potencies. !t has power of delegating power to us to recei#e all of iWhen it comes from an un$nown region it should first in4ect such power to our feeble recei#ing instrument as

would enable us to welcome it. We must not show a challenging or re4ecting attitude as we are liable to do towardad#ice offered gratis.

We should $now that the transcendental Sound has the necessary potencies that confer on us such desirable gifts a

will enable us to neglect the other senses. %ur eyes( nose( etc.( will be regulated by that Sound. his is not

hypnotism or mesmerism which gi#es anthropomorphic ideas. hey are altogether beyond the human scope. heyshould charm and transform the human. hey should not depend for any help from the senses or empiricism

restricted to their poor rationalistic expedition only. Such help cannot be effecti#e and can only hamper us( when

transcendental Sounds flow into our ears from an agent who will inspect whether we desire mundane supplies or

not.

he transcendental Sound will carry all the requisites necessary for recei#ing the Sound. We should patiently wait

through the whole of our life. he transcendental Sound may come through human and all other agents( if only we

are ardent( if we require his help( if we unconditionally surrender e#erything acquired by the empiric method( if wdismantle the constructions accrued during the empiric period. !f we do not dismantle them there will be no

eligibility for recei#ing the transcendental Sound.

he transcendental Sound will be coming out of the !nitiati#e )aculty of the /n$nown. Whate#er submits to our

senses is 7ature5s product. When we engage our senses we fail to ma$e progress because we ha#e not dismantledall culture( e#en all aesthetic culture of this world. !f we are desirous of catching the transcendental Sound we

should be prepared for the time being to suspend all sensuous acti#ities and wait for the transcendental Sound to

include all.

!f we ignore the 2ause of causes we miss the opportunity to recei#e the transcendental Sound. "s present peopleare engaging in materialistic acti#ities we wish some sorts of elementary culture to be introduced to ma$e them

progress in the line of the full existence. Spiritualists in e#ery part of the world are busy in threshing the sub4ect b

deferring wrongly to the mundane reference. rue spiritualists spea$ out all e#en to persons who are incredulous.his incredulity will be slowly remo#ed by the transcendental Sound. !f the spea$er utters anything mundane it w

not lead to the transcendental 6osition.

!f we are fortunate to recei#e the Sound that is beyond the human scope we should listen to it. od&head sends

down 'is messengers in symbolised figures to gi#e us( if we are at all really sanguine( ideas of the "bsolute. !t isonly then that we would be enabled to ma$e any progress. his fortune is denied to all who ha#e lo#e for

transformable things.

6ersons desirous of ha#ing the #iew of the whole at a glance should ha#e their access through the transcendental

Sound only and not through the senses. he distincti#e feature of that Sound is that it carries all sorts ofinformation and potencies that would gi#e us facilities to welcome the Sound hose who neglect to attend to that

sound would be unmindful of the )ountain&'ead. hey would be engaging in intellectual acti#ities in this materia

space that cannot accommodate spirit. hey would be apt to carry gross things there to enrich that region. ,utlanterns are not necessary for seeing the Sun.


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he lanterns are useful for seeing things in the dar$. !t will only encumber and obstruct us if we carry the

$nowledge and acquisition of this world for progress in that region. We may be #ery simple in our habits( may be#ery poor in our linguistic equipment( but when the transcendental Sound reaches our ear that will clear up all dirt

of our ear accumulated by pre#ious recei#ing of the mundane sound. his will be secured in the company of

persons who are eager to restrict their whole acti#ity to the transcendental 6rocess. !f we pay some fee to thescoffing atheists( to the professors of empiric wisdom( to the builders of the temporal structures( etc.( these partial

donations in exchange will not gi#e us the whole thing. We should not thin$ of bartering at all. he transcendenta

Sound does not require any earthly media for its communication.

We must not neglect the transcendental Sound freely transmitted by the agents of the "bsolute. We find oursel#esinterested in many things that are not $nown to us. he doctors do not $now the remedies of many diseases. We

require no monetary #alue in exchange for transmitting our message. We li#e a simple life and require little help

from others in the way of scientific facilities. "s we ha#e got our ear we can recei#e the transcendental Sound and#ocalise the same to any intelligent person who may hear us.

his will not be accessible to persons who ha#e #ery little culture( who are engrossed in sensuous engagements.

,ut we expect the intelligent section to ma$e some preparatory progress towards a region of which we are

essentially in need. !n these days of materialism we are no doubt pu--led by these high thoughts. We are trying todo much to enrich the human intellect. ,ut we are startled when we are told to loo$ beyond. his is silly.

We want to rouse up the true mentality of the ci#ili-ed world for see$ing true help towards spiritual progress. he

secular help cannot appease our inner hunger. he transcendental 'elp can. We intelligent people should recei#e

the tranicendental sic: Sound. We are now #itally concerned in this as e#ery one is engaged in exploring ways anmeans for getting rid of our present unbearable inadequacies. We should spare a portion of our time to recei#e

those Sounds.

!nterview with "roessor #ohans

Head o the De$artment o "hiloso$hy

St. %aviers College

/26lease tell me in brief the doctrine of Shri 2haitanya ahaprabhu.

-2here is an old Shlo$a which says ;,haga#an *rishna5s rinda#ana is the ob4ect of worship according to the example of the cowherd&wi#es of ,ra4a which is glorified in

the Srimad ,haga#atam( the stainless 6uranam( and 0o#e of od is the highest thing for attainment.; his is thedoctrine of Shri 2haitanya ahaprabhu( for which we ha#e the greatest regard and not for anything else.

he fullest de#elopment of the idea about odship is in Shri *rishna. 'e re#eals 'imself to 'is de#otees of

different competences in three )orms. "ll these three are perfect conceptions( not li$e the partial one of 6aramatmand the incomplete one of ,rahman. hese three perfect conceptions are full( fuller and fullest. hese three arere#ealed in wara$a( athura and >rinda#ana. "t wara$a *rishna5s manifestation is full( at athura it is fuller

and in ,ra4a rinda#ana= it is the fullest.

We are li#ing in the ,hulo$a( one out of the fourteen worlds comprising the se#en lower worlds and se#en higher

ones. %f the latter( this world


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obser#e the rules of religious austerities@ the third is for the hermits( who after retirement from worldly life li#e in

the forest or in seclusion for meditation@ and the fourth for the sanyasis ai$unth

which is inaccessible to others. +#en beyond that >ai$untha( there is wara$a@ higher than that is athura and

abo#e that too is olo$a&>rinda#ana. hese regions are manifested by the potency of existences lying in od5s+soteric 6ersonality. he places that are there in the transcendental egion are re#ealed in the mundane region.

What is non&existent in that region cannot be found in this one. he manifestation of the non&apparent sports of

>rinda#ana is olo$a. Aust as the lotus remains in a la$e without connection with water( so does olo$a stay in thworld without any touch of the earth. hose whose mind is not prone to offer ser#ice ai$untha@ the bliss in wara$a is superior to that in "yodhya@ and the bliss of the deni-ens of olo$a is theclimax of all bliss. he difference in the degree of a particular asa or sentimental mellowness is the cause of the

difference in the degree of the bliss. +#en the afflictions and distresses that may be there in olo$a dance on the

crest of all forms of blisses and happinesses@ these are rather nourishers of the highest form of bliss. Shri 2haitanye#a has demonstrated the superiority of researching the ser#ices of the 0ord of >rinda#ana or of o$ula. Shri

*rishna is od 'imself from Whom ha#e emanated all the !ncarnations of >ishnu. hat *rishna manifests

'imself as the 0ord of wara$a( or of o$ula. Shri 2haitanya e#a has said about 0ord *rishna of o$ulaB ;!n*rishna are present all the fi#e principal asas ai$untha?

-2!t is where there is no $untha or the characteristic feature of measuring e#erything. his >ai$untha has two

petals or apartments. !n the one od exists as ,haga#an with the highest a4esty. !n the second apartment abo#ethe first one 'e is e#er present with 'is 6ersonality of perfect sweetness( 'e being the %cean of all the sentiment

succulence that gi#es the utmost sensation of transcendental pleasure@ here 'e co#ers up that climax of a4esty

with the predominance of 'is graceful sweetness by dint of ine#itable 6otency. >ai$untha is no $ind of limitedregion li$e the Swarga( of the 'indus( ,ahest of the 6ersians( 'ea#en of the 2hristians( nor is the place( a

habitation of the deities who are sub4ect to the measuring limitations. he conception of >ai$untha among the

>aisna#as is not li$e that of persons who thin$ that as the result of #irtuous acts they will go to the region ofhea#en and again come in contract with wi#es( sons and relati#es connected with their bodies to remain absorbed

in en4oyments as in the world. !n >ai$untha( *rishna is the only aster and all are eternally engaged in ser#ing

'im. "ccording to the >aishna#as( Swarga( ,ahest( etc.( are as false as day&dreams. We are all ser#ants of odand od is the only recipient of our ser#ice. We are belie#ers in "chintya&,hedabheda#ada i.e.( the doctrine of th

inscrutable simultaneity of distinction and non&distinction among od and 'is creation( animate and inanimate.

We ha#e no desire for obstructing the eternal essential #irtue of chit aidic sic: commands which ha#e come down to us through the true line of urus(

but they attach more #alue to the process of empiricism. "nd they are properly rewarded with punishment throughthat process itself. ,ut we accept "#ataraada( or process of eduction. od and 'is de#otees graciously come

down to this world and gi#e us the message of >ai$untha. he >aishna#as are not ele#ationists( following the

$arma&$anda( nor followers of 4nana&$anda or sal#ationists. hey are not achidadins( nor belie#ers only in achitadas?

-2"chidada is materialism of the following nature as when one says( ;! shall be !ndra( the *ing of hea#en; or ;

shall en4oy worldly pleasures; in the #ein of 2har#a$a( the !ndian +picurus( whose philosophy was that pleasure

was the highest good or again ;! shall borrow and drin$ and not thin$ of discharging the debt@ ! shall ha#econ#enient arrangements for leading a comfortable life in this world@ and to be a greater en4oyer( ! shall acquire

and preser#e health@ ! shall ma$e a proper use of the canine teeth by eating fish and meat and #igorously manage


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the function of youth; and so on. 5"chin&matraada is the name of the attempt to annihilate the sentient existence

on the ground that "chidada is only temporal and the sentient existence is the una#oidable root of all troublesand miseries. "ccording to them the extinction of the sentient existence is the most laudable and #aluable thing(

inasmuch as existence is the root of all e#ils. Sa$yasimha( *apila( etc.( were the propounders of this doctrine.

2hinmatraada is the name of the attempt to merge in ,rahman and thus destroy the anuchit property of 4i#as.Shan$aracharya and( before him( attratreya( were the propounders of this doctrine. he different anuchetanamsa


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!n the mundane region( we find three thingsB existence( sustenance and destruction. estruction is a thing which is

quite undesirable here. ,ut in the "bsolute region( we find the #ery dissociation or separation has got a factor ininebriating us. 'ere when we are depri#ed of something( we are rather helpless@ there we get more opportunities o

ser#ing 'im in case of separation. he procedure of approaching 'im is to realise the condition of separation. 'e

we do not find 'im. he "bsolute cannot be had here though we may ha#e ample inclination for ha#ing 'im. he#ery formation of our equipments( the mind and the senses( is quite inadequate to ha#e an approach to the

transcendence( neither can we expect 'im to be confined here as one of the ob4ects of phenomena. We need not

thin$ that 'e comes under our sensuous 4urisdiction. !f 'e can come as an ob4ect( we should accuse 'im of 'isfiniteness. 'e is not to be dealt with as one of the material ob4ects which can be reciprocated by our senses. 'e

$eeps 'imself quite out of our #ision and out of the touch of our senses. /nless we ha#e de#otional aptitude( we

cannot in#o$e 'im here. 'e does not condescend to come to this region and become an ob4ect of the acti#ities of

our senses. So we should find out a means to approach 'im and this is $nown as Sadhan&,ha$ti( i.e.( the procedurto be adopted in our case. he Supreme 0ord has not gi#en us any pri#ilege of exposing 'imself to our senses.

6henomenal ob4ects are presented to us( for duping us( for deluding us. So we ha#e to be in touch with 'im( but '

has denied us this pri#ilege. his is the case of separation. When 'e( the 0o#er( the 2entre of all lo#e( has deniedthe belo#ed 'is presence( our inclinations and acti#ities should double( or treble to ha#e 'is association. So this

sort of separation is an essential point( is indeed the cardinal point( that will help us to ha#e the inclinations of

approaching 'im.

"ll our attempts should tend towards association with 'im( because the association is denied for the purpose ofstudying our hearts. 'e has gi#en us this facility to ha#e an easy trac$ to reach 'im. he #ery condition of

separation is a #ery good thing for 'is ser#itor as he can culture his affinity or inclination for the "bsolute more

than when he is allowed to appear before 'im. 'e has intentionally depri#ed us of 'is presence. 'e was found tobe for a lo#ing temper( but the 0o#er has deserted us( and we are to follow 'im. When we are disappointed in not

ha#ing 'is presence( we should actually than$ our stars that our 0o#er has gained much by dissociating 'imself

from us. ! mean the "utocrat has got the right of ma$ing 'imself quite happy by deserting us( and we are to submto 'is pleasure and wish( we are to submit to 'is whims. We must abide by 'is decision. hat ! consider to be

ser#ice. hat is( ! need not satisfy my senses by approaching 'im. ,ut when he has managed to shut 'imself from

my senses( ! $now 'e wants that ! should acquire more affinity for 'im( and 'e has gi#en me that opportunity. !f

'e came within our perception( we would simply gratify our senses( which would be a detriment to our cause andwould pro#e an obstacle to our ser#ice.

"n illustration is quotedB %ne infinitestimal absolute was fanning the "bsolute !nfinity. he moment he thought

that the 0ord was delighted by his ser#ices( that the aster had accepted his ser#ices( he became o#erpowered andcould fan no more. hus he was found to be negligent in offering his ser#ices. he fanner should ha#e $nown that

he ought not to satisfy his senses by stopping his ser#ices by considering that the aster had accepted his ser#ices

'e should not ha#e become inebriated( because it pro#ed rather a bar to his offering further ser#ice. !nstead of

being carried away by our emotional sentiments( we should always be alert in offering our ser#ice( and ser#ice isbest offered by chanting the 7ame. he Supreme 0ord is $eeping 'imself at a distance and we are to see$ 'im

assiduously@ this is the proper way of chanting the 7ame. he 7ame of the "bsolute should be chanted continuall

so that we may be mindful and not diffident to offer our ser#ices. "s soon as we show our diffidence to ser#e 'imand stop chanting 'is 7ame( we are necessarily led to lord it o#er the worldly phenomena( and we get a quite

different occupation. he occupation or the sole function of the soul is nothing but to associate himself with the

Supreme 0ord. "s soon as we are negligent of our ser#ices( we miss the opportunity of associating with 'im. Weare 'is eternal ser#itors


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is pure. "ll gnostic transactions or associations with the mundane things are quite opposed to ser#ice because they

are meant for our purpose and not for the purpose of the "bsolute. When we $now we are absolute infinitesimals(our #ision is fully restricted to the "bsolute !nfinity and not to any non&absolute thing. e#otion or ,ha$ti is the

policy of approaching 'im. /nconditional surrender should be performed at all cost. When we surrender( we will

ha#e an opportunity of depending on 'im fully( otherwise we will be thin$ing of other things whether the "bsoluis at all prepared to rescue us from this troublous region or not. he unconditional surrendering will gi#e us the

assurance that we will be rescued from the worldly affinity. !f we chant the 7ame continuously( we will be able to

get rid of our inclination of accepting worldly things( we will be simply relie#ed from the in#asion of phenomenalfinite ob4ects. So chanting should be the process. We need not trouble oursel#es in the beginning to enter into the

details of the "bsolute@ the #ery chanting of 'is 7ame will ta$e us to 'im.

his world is a place of trial. We are to educate oursel#es in the transcendental Science. We should not fail to do s

now that we ha#e got a human frame. We must a#ail our present opportunity( lea#ing aside e#erything else for ounext life. his life should be engaged solely in the pursuit of the "bsolute and that sort of pursuit will be effected

we adopt the process of de#otion. We ha#e #ery little to do with the worldly people@ but we ha#e e#erything to do

with those who are engaged in the ser#ice of the Supreme 0ord. "ssociation with people who are busy with theirmeasuring temperament( will not be congenial for our purpose. We should not culture our en4oying temperament

most people are inclined to do. !f we ha#e at all to meet an undesirable person( we should always ma$e it a point t

proselytise him through education about the ranscendental.

he only aim of our life should be to ma$e progress towards the #eiled region. 6eople may accuse us that we aretal$ing in a #ein of mysticism which cannot be examined by the senses. ,ut we do not tal$ of mysticism( we tal$ o

certainties. "s see$ers of positi#e $nowledge( we should try to peep into the #eiled region. 6eople are busy in

examining things by their seeming aspects. he seeming positions are not to be confused with the actual positions

as a wrapper should not be considered to be the letter. We should penetrate into things. he outer case( thebahiranga maya&sha$ti( has produced these things to be measured by our senses. his sort of measuring is not at a

congenial to our purpose. We should ha#e a peep into the "bsolute. We should not ta$e our physical and astral

bodies to be our real self. "t present we $now nothing due to ignorance( and this ignorance( is to be dispelled. Wecannot deny the fact that we will ha#e to die and get rid of this fleshy tabernacle. We cannot retain it. So the real

owner of the body should be aimed at first. his is swarupa4nana. We should not be identified with our bodies.

When we are found to be eligible to see 'im( we will be attracted by 'is sublime beautiful face. 'is beauty shoulnot be en4oyed by us( but our beautiful transcendental frame should be shown to 'im for 'is pleasure. "s soon as

we show 'im our spiritual beauty( 'e will disclose 'imself to us.

Talk to Mrs. +ora Morell o )ermany

September 1( 193D

We should ha#e firm faith in the i#inity. We are absolute infinitesimals( and it is only proper we should associatoursel#es with the "bsolute. !f we show our diffidence to do so( we are li$ely to be entangled with the ephemeral

matters of this world. %ur friends are with us for a short while only. hey will lea#e us at any time when they arecalled away from this world. Whate#er we do should tend towards association with the i#inity. We should not

underta$e any wor$ for our temporary purposes. We are 'is dependents. !nfinitesimals as we are( we should ha#eour final place in 'im. We should carry out all our acti#ities for 'is purpose only. We should not thin$ that we

ha#e any other thing to do. /nli$e the ordinary people( we should ha#e only one method of directing e#erything to

'im for 'is ser#ice. he external gross body is meant for a hundred years and no more. %ur mental speculationsare bound to be going on in our present human form. ,ut we are obliged to lea#e this mortal coil and to cease our

transactions with the external world at some time howe#er ardent we may be about ha#ing associations with the

manifesti#e nature of things. !f we wish to associate oursel#es with the "bsolute( all non&absolute propaganda forour temporary purposes should be abandoned as far as possible( otherwise we will be led to become materialists

only. hat non&absolute propaganda will instigate us to entangle oursel#es with worldly thoughts and ideas. We


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will be thin$ing of physical de#elopments instead of associating oursel#es with the "bsolute. We are all absolutes

though infinitesimally small. ,ecause we ha#e shown diffidence we ha#e pro#ed our indolence to associate with'im@ so( li$e shooting stars( we ha#e been simply thrown off from 'im. We ha#e rebelled against that +ntity. 7ow

to go bac$ to 'im( it is essential that all our associations and mo#ements should tend to 'is ser#ice.

)irst of all 'e should be designated. What is 'e? What form does 'e ha#e? "nd how are we to go bac$ to him?

When we come to $now that 'e $eeps 'imself aloof from e#erything in this phenomenal world( we feel thenecessity of associating with 'im. "nd this association can be had if we can eliminate the external impediments

which are li$e screens( between the "bsolute !nfinity and the absolute infinitesimals. %ur mental speculations are

meant for associating with the phenomenal ob4ects. ,ut some philosophers thought it possible to turn our mentalspeculations to 'im in 'is abstract form( instead of 'is manifesti#e nature. ,ut here we ha#e got 'is manifesti#e

nature for the purpose of associating oursel#es with 'im. We cannot ha#e this association by any sort of pri#ation

he phenomenal ob4ects are undesirable things. "lthough they ha#e some effect on us( they are all transient andwill not hold good for us till the end of time. We do not thin$( li$e materialists thin$ that e#erything will stop whe

we die & that all our troubles will end at death. his miserable idea should be thrown off. We should engage all ou

acti#ities to associate oursel#es with the "bsolute( as we are oursel#es associate infinitesimals. We are not thebody( nor the mind( nor the external atmosphere. We require dissociation from these. hese undesirable situations

should be eliminated at all costs( otherwise we will be engrossing oursel#es entirely in the ordinary purposes of th

world.

0ower animals are used as food by many people. !n ancient times( when cannibalism was pre#alent in the world(people used to eat human flesh. hey thought that the human body was meant for their consumption. 0ater on

when ci#ilisation made progress( people ga#e up cannibalism( but went on ta$ing flesh of lower animals. !n !ndia

persons belonging to the higher castes do not ta$e animal food. he de#elopment of religious thoughts ha#e

stopped the practice of cruelty to animals in many ways. Science has now pro#ed that #egetables too ha#e life andcan feel pain and pleasure. ,ut it is not mean that we should commit suicide by abstaining from ta$ing any food.

his problem is sol#ed when food is meant for the purpose of the "bsolute.

+#erything has come out of 'im and e#erything will go bac$ to 'im and e#erything is meant for 'is ser#ice. "llanimate and inanimate ob4ects ha#e come out of him and are meant for 'is ser#ice only. !f we purloin these thing

it would be decei#ing the "bsolute. We are absolute infinitesimals and are deluded by the ordinary manifesti#e

character of the phenomena. We ha#e to get rid of this delusion. We should ha#e a peep into the ruth( and that

ruth must be reached. !f we are sincere( 'e will expose 'imself to our #ision. Whate#er we do( we should do itfor 'im( for 'is eternal purpose( instead of indulging oursel#es in transitory transactions. %ur only function is no

to carry on our wor$ for our own purpose. We should not be the recipients of the fruits of the enterprises we ha#e.

!t is better for us that whate#er we do should be done in 'is fa#our and for 'is ser#ice. We are ser#itors. !f we$eep dogs( we would be ser#ants for dogs@ if we $eep horses we would be ser#ants of horses( and if we become

altruists( we would be ser#ants of human beings only. ,ut the "bsolute should be ser#ed at all costs. We should

ma$e it a point that all our acti#ities should tend to 'is ser#ice. "ll animate and inanimate beings ha#e emanatedfrom 'im. We should ser#e the "bsolute and not engage oursel#es in the non&absolute.

ost people are at a loss to understand what they should do and what they are meant for. hey only see the

superficial sides of things. he external sides of things are quite deluding. "s intelligent men( we should be #ery

careful. We should penetrate into e#erything properly. %ur #iew should not be obstructed by the morphologicalrepresentation of things( nor by the ontological side of things.

he methodical arrangement of the phenomena should not be restricted to our ordinary purpose of li#ing only. ,u

since our aim is a peaceful life( we do not wish to be troubled by the undesirable elements of the world. Sometime

we find a little peace by $eeping rules and regulations and obser#ing ci#ic principles. ,ut we are again put intotrouble by some misunderstanding or other of the people from outside. here is some agency wor$ing behind(

which is not exposed to our present senses.


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%ur sensuous ner#es are quite ineligible for the purpose of associating with the ruth. he semblance of de#otion

and truth which people may put on often decei#es us.

he external features( the morphological and ontological phases of things( are sometimes found to be detrimental t

our cause when our ambition is to come into touch with the "bsolute. We ha#e the facility of possessing the

experience of the last ten thousand years. We can 4udge and discern the best method for our adoption( instead of

indulging oursel#es in the way the ordinary people are transacting their business round about us.

%ur senses respond readily to the ob4ects of the phenomena. Supersensuous ob4ects are simply neglected. heeternal representations( the eternal manifestations and the eternal aspects are fully neglected. We aspire to ha#e th

fullest ad#antage of coming in touch with all desirable things. !n our present life( we find that we are troubled bymany distressful agents. We find that all these are treacherous and only lead us to the satisfaction of our senses

only. his non&absolute propaganda should cease. Whate#er else we may do( we should ma$e it a point that we

should ha#e neither diffidence nor indolence in offering our ser#ices to the "bsolute.

he word ;"bsolute; is explained in different ways. We ha#e experience of the non&absolutes and undesirableob4ects of the phenomena. %ur mind is found to be of a non&absolute nature. he mind discerns things for the

purpose of the senses only. he "bsolute is delineated as %ne who has reser#ed the right of not being exposed to

human senses. !f the "bsolute was an ob4ect of the phenomena( we would be lording it o#er 'im. ,ut that is not

the correct situation. We should dedicate oursel#es as 'is ser#itors. We should not thin$ that we are en4oyers and'e is the predominated ob4ect of our en4oyment. 'e is ne#er so.

We are obliged to pass through undesirable situations. We want to get rid of all these things. %ur inner impulse

should be to ha#e access to that region where all ob4ects will offer us special opportunity of ha#ing associationwith the "bsolute. %ur purpose should be to associate with the )ullness( with the +ternity( with the 6urity( with th

,est of desirables( and not to mix with the temporary things of delusi#e nature. We should not ha#e a crippled ide

of od&head. We should wait for the transcendental message to come to us in full. We would ha#e then an

opportunity of associating with 'im. We should set apart some time to ma$e progress towards the in#estigation othe ranscendence.

We are #ery small. Some o#erwhelming influence comes upon us and we are troubled. So we should ha#e recours

to the "bsolute !nfinity. We should not be acting li$e shooting stars in flying away from 'im( but we should go

bac$ to our original place. here the manifesti#e nature is eternally present( whereas here the phenomenal ob4ectsare meant for a few days only. So we should ha#e this eternal benefit as our ob4ecti#e. We can ignore all these

influences of nature( all influences of scientific disco#eries( if we ha#e the determination to associate oursel#es

only with the Whole +ntity.

here are many things concealed and hidden and not re#ealed to us( and these are to be recei#ed through our aural

reception. %ur auditory ner#es should be trained to be susceptible to sound wa#es from the transcendental

messenger so that we can ma$e progress towards the ranscendence.

Talk to "ro. Dr. Stella (ramrisch, M.-., "h.D

ecember 9( 1931

he 7ame of the 6ersonality of od&head is >ishnu. he impersonal face is designated ,rahman in Sans$rit todenote 5magnanimous5( 5large5( 5big5( etc.( representing the macroscosmic #iew. he 6ersonality which is apart from

'is creation is >ishnu. >ishnu has three +nergies. %ne of them is meant for manifestation of 'is eternal "bode(

another 6otency is for creating all human souls who are emanations from 'is atastha&sha$ti found between thetemporal and eternal worlds. ,y this potency 'e creates human souls. he human soul has two different


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predilections. !f he desires to ser#e od&head he is allowed into the +ternal egion. !f he desires to lord it o#er th

world he comes down for en4oying in different capacities the products of the eluding 6otency.

!n this world e#erything is changing and transforming( e#erything is sub4ect to birth( growth and death. !n the

present form of existence we cannot expect to be otherwise than being sub4ect to birth( growth and death. he

position is always changing. When we do not want to be sub4ect to these we feel the necessity of see$ing a way to

get bac$ to the original position. his position( which is li$e the geometrical line( is designated atastha&sha$ti( thfountain&head of all human souls. atastha&sha$ti is located between the two potencies of >ishnu one of which

maintains this transforming world and the other is the source of the manifestation of the eternal world that does no

change li$e this world. hese potencies belong to the 6ersonality of od&head >ishnu.

udra( od of destruction and ,rahma( od of generation are two wings of the 6ersonality of >ishnu. Some

people thin$ that the destructi#e aspect of the i#ine 6ersonality should be final( that the goal should be cessation

of all acti#ity. hey prefer the worship of the destructi#e face i.e. udra or Shi#a. ,ut the destructi#e function is

only a specific department of the i#ine "cti#ities. +xistence is different from destruction. he +ternal funcionsic: of cherishing and fostering all sorts of manifestations( is strictly confined to >ishnu Who is the centre of all

theism.

!n the ita the 6ersonality of od&head is maintained e#erywhere. he ita closes with the proposition that we

should embrace the )eet of >ishnu lea#ing aside all aborti#e speculations. !f a man does note ser#e >ishnu heengages himself in some other acti#ities e.g.( $eeping dogs( horses etc.( in order to ser#e them. "ll sorts of ser#ice

are to be rendered to the "bsolute. "ny proposition to lord it o#er others means that we desire to be raised to the

position of od&head Who alone is to be ser#ed by them. "ll of us are to render ser#ice to 'im only. When there any di#ision or argument on this point( when we cease ser#ing 'im( we want to ma$e things subser#ient or

ser#iceable to us. !f we want to en4oy( if we want that od&head should not en4oy( we don5t feel that any ser#ice is

necessary for 'im. his leads to a serious conflict.

!f ! require that some one should ser#e me and that some one requires that ! should ser#e him the ser#ice due to th'ead is disturbed by such selfish deflection. his produces conflict of loyalties. !t becomes detrimental to

'armony. /nless all acti#ities are harmonised e#ery one will be troubled.

We should not be meddling with earthly things that are always shifting and changing. Whene#er we get a thing fo

supplying a want it should be to ser#e od&head. %therwise we require ser#ice from others and thereby want toen4oy this world. his would debar us from the "bsolute.

!f we pic$ up shifting things we shall be dragged to some pu--ling region. We would arri#e at no decision. !t is

necessary that all our acti#ities should be directed to the "bsolute *nowledge( identical with od&head.

!f we agree to ser#e( we would find what the position of the "bsolute should be. !n the %ld estament the pronoun5!t5 stands for the "bsolute( or the 7euter face. he )ountain&'ead is depri#ed of animation by the proposition tha

all prerogati#e( e#erything predominating( should cease in the "bsolute.

When we disagree from the abo#e we thin$ 'e should ha#e some initiati#e. 5!t5 should be 5'e.5 he ita refers to a

5'e&od.5 he oiety of the hing is thus established. he predominating "spect is recognised. he predominate"spect is ignored. he asculine should ha#e the reciprocal )eminine "spect. %therwise one oiety is ignored.

he wo oieties form the 2omplete Whole. atter which has no initiati#e is eliminated.

he two hal#es of the Whole #i-.( the 6redominating the predominated "spects( should be represented. he

istincti#e onism of Shri amanu4a admits three fundamental entities( #i-.( spirit( matter and their 0ord( && 2hita&chit and !swara.


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"ll animate things are #ested with the spiritual form. he inanimate cannot exercise any acti#ity( cannot ta$e the

initiati#e. he asculine and )eminine both show initiati#e faculties. !nanimate form should not be traced as the)ountain&'ead.

he choice up to this has lain between 5!t&od5 and 5'e&od5. here is also a third alternati#e #i-.( a 5She&od5. We

ha#e decided that 5'e&od5 is the sub4ect to be ascertained and not 5!t&od5. !t&od is equi#alent to "gnosticism(

Scepticism( "theism( etc. !f any methodic or cosmic principle is to be admitted we should require that 5!t&od5cannot produce 'e&od. ,ecause 'e&od can ta$e initiati#e. !t&od cannot. he pair( 5'e5 and 5She5 is /nion and

is the Second )orm. ,efore this animation is wholly or partially eliminated from od.

!n the ita the male )orm is represented as the od. he )eminine )orm of od&head should supply the full!ntegral >alue by satisfying the requirements of the reciprocal situation in animation. Sita&ama standard of

heism( in which the +thical side is fully manifested( may be ta$en as the fa#ourite instance of the third or ;6air&

od5 form.

,ut what appears at first sight to be the special merit of the worship of Sita&ama( #i-.( its ethical #aluesafeguarded by one 2onsort and one 'usband( also restricts the 6redominating "spect of the "bsolute to that

#alue( on the ground that in this world it would create great dissension if the husband should ha#e many wi#es. h

)eminine share is ignored by this mundane reference.

he fourth stage of hesim sic: is supplied by the worship of *rishna as *ing of wara$a. *rishna is %ne asteser#ed by hundreds and thousands of souls who follow 'im. 'undred and thousands of wi#es ser#e *rishna by th

relation of consort&hood. We ha#e e#ery right to 4oin the ser#ice of od&head in that capacity.

'uman souls are many( but the %#er&Soul is %ne. amanu4a says that plurality of wi#es should be allowed to ser#

od&head( while others who hold that i#ine ser#ice should be restricted to ishis li#ing in the anda$a forest(require that we should ha#e ama as our consort. Sita would refuse us this fa#our. heism is restricted by

reference to this world. he equilibrium that is sought( is not maintained. We males ha#e got to pass through one

sort of ideas and females through another. ,ut our experience is a per#erted reflection.

We are many. We must not thin$ that our 0ord should be many. 6olytheistic thought must be a#oided. he2hristian heology offers a ale&od( Who is )ather and 2reator of e#erything. ,ut ale&od without the

feminine oiety cannot produce any boy here. hat sort of idea of ale&od would not gi#e us fullness of

de#otion.

0a$shmi&7arayana is better than ale&od. ama&sita is also better. !n wara$esha


14/30

are the non&heistic groups. !n the heistic group there are


15/30

ha#e tought that the Ainas are twenty&four. he >aishna#as do not subscribe to that #iew( as they are

uncompromising heists.

/2&& 'ow to get such super&mundane realisation?

-2&& *nowledge of first dimensions is acquired first. "ll mental speculation should cease. "ll forms of ser#ice fo

od&head mean that our mind should first of all be controlled. he mind is busy pic$ing up ideas and thoughts

from this world. !f these are carried there it would be anthropomorphic. here should be no such attribution to

od&head.

We ha#e to engage in hundred percent ser#ice. We should $now that the apotheotic ideas cannot be tolerated( and

should be ruled out of consideration. We should be always hearing the "bsolute through the transcendental Sound

he sound of our atmosphere describes 7ature5s products. !t informs us about "merica or any corner of the globe.he aptitude should be dismissed in the case of transcendental Sound which is not from this region of three

dimensions.

Sound from the "bsolute ealm ai$untha= has a peculiar reference. !t requires no corroboration by the other

senses. !n the case of mundane sound nasal acti#ity is required to test its correctness( the tongue and other sensesmust also help in the process. here are always the four corroborati#e senses that are engaged in testing the #alidi

of the mundane sound. ,ut they are quite unser#iceable in the case of the transcendental Sound.

he transcendental Sound has got a popular distincti#e reference of its own. !t refers to 7on&di#isible "bsolute

*nowledge


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he soul is free from the subtle body 4ust as we are free when we cast off our old apparel. hese bodies are brough

from outside. he +go is different( it is their proprietor and need not be wrapped up nor incorporated by thesetempting thoughts of this world by material considerations. We should be always dismissing mental speculation

when recei#ing the transcendental Sound. his sort of $nowing( willing( feeling need not be incoporated. sic: We

should se#er our connection@ otherwise it would lead us to subscribe to metempsychosis and we would thin$ that we ha#e more li#es in store 5we could ma$e up in our later li#es for our present sins and so in this life let us be

sinning5. ,y one&life theory people would be more careful.

" man should be thoroughly ethical. 'e must not be encroaching upon the right of others. ,ut mental demeanour

made up of things that would lead to those troubles. he mentalist is( therefore( not at all moral. his poor idea ofmorality is found among many of us here( e#en though they may ha#e a sufficient long existence.

!nterviews with Mr. illion Henri #an 'andor Stok o Bavaria

ecember ED( 193F

/2&& Cour 'oliness( $indly enlighten me about the different aspects of human pursuits.

-2&& !n !ndia as in +urope we find people holding different #iews( but here we ha#e attempted to classify them inthree di#isions. %ne class of people are see$ers of fruits of their action. "nother class wish to annihilate theirindi#iduality. "nd the third class want( in their true sel#es as absolute infintesimals( to be in touch with the

"bsolute !nfinity( re4ecting all non&absolute features. We belong to the third party.

he see$ers of fruits by means of their actions are called *arma$andins in the Sans$rit language. he 2hristian

way of thin$ing about life is included in *arma$anda. !n !ndia we ha#e also that sort of idea( that a person is to be4udged by his action. 'e gets something in return as a reward for his pious deeds. >irtue and piety are the main

principles that are wanted by such doers. ost people understand this common #iew( which holds that what ! do

will be either rewarded or reprimanded. We thin$ that we should li#e a pious life in order that we may be rewardein our next life with all sorts of en4oyments. We ha#e got subtle bodies in which we are rewarded or punished. h

body is not exactly similar to the ordinary gross body( the mortal coil which we see here. +gyptians thought thatthey ha#e but one life and that they should ha#e no occasions to bear future li#es. ,ut persons who subscribe to ththeory of metempsychosis thin$ that they will ha#e future li#es when they can ma$e up for the nefarious acts done

both in their present li#es and in their past li#es( and recei#e grace from the great dispenser of 4ustice. hey are

fruit&see$ers. hey want to gratify their senses.

here are persons who han$er after $nowledge. hey went sic: to secure $nowledge by the empiric method. othem annihilation is the final goal. hey thin$ they should merge in the !nteger( the "bsolute( and that all the

undesirable situations of this world will end with this merging. !n that case obser#er( obser#ation and obser#ed(

these three situations are eliminated. When all the acti#ities of the senses such as hearing( tasting( smelling( seeingand touching will cease( the obser#er( obser#ation and the obser#ed will mix up together and there will be no

occasion for $nowing( willing or feeling. "ll #olitional( cogitational and emotional acti#ities should cease( becausthey ha#e gi#en us a bitter experience@ and so( according to the empiricists( in order to ma$e an end of them( it

would be better for us not to thin$ of anything which will respond to our senses. his idea is formulated bytheorists li$e pantheists( agnostics( and sceptics. hese people thin$ that they will be able to secure happiness by

destroying their identify.

he third #iew is the theistic #iew. We belie#e that there is a 6ersonality of od&head and that we are persons. Wewant our troublous situations to be eliminated and wish to reach a peaceful position where we can freely mo#e an

ha#e e#erything( whate#er we are in need of@ and this has resulted in directing us to the "bsolute Who is

represented as a 6ersonality. !n the "bsolute 6ersonality we find three featuresB 'e is +#er&existent( 'e is e#er ful

of $nowledge and 'e is the )ountain&head of unceasing bliss. !n 'im there is no factor of time( no factor of


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ignorance. !n 'im there is no discrepancy( no defect( no inadequacy( nothing of the $ind. !n our conception of o

we hold 'e is the +mporium of all bliss( all $nowledge( and no acts of nescience or ignorance are to be associatedwith 'im( and we should not see$ after any fruit for our worldly purpose( lea#ing 'im aside. 'e need not gi#e us

anything. We are to ser#e 'im as ser#itors( 'e being the only 0ord. !n this world we find that hundreds of absolut

infinitesimals trouble themsel#es with the undesirable elements of these phenomena. !f the undesirable elementsare simply dri#en out( eliminated( then a desirable position can be had. ,ut in the ordinary conception of hea#en(

we find that it is meant for our purpose( to get our wishes for en4oyment fulfilled( for our en4oyment apart from the

en4oyment of the "bsolute. he en4oyment of the "bsolute is full( whereas our en4oyment is liable to be in#ol#edin some troubles. "ll these miserable situations should be a#oided for the purpose of safety( for our peace. he

eternal peace can only come if we are at all eager to engage oursel#es in the ser#ice of the 0ord( ! mean( the

6ersonality of od&head. od has got spiritual eyes( spiritual ears( spiritual nose( spiritual tongue( spiritual s$in

and spiritual mind@ not material things li$e us. %ur senses are made up of material things and there is no suchelement in od. od is the +mporium of all desirable elements. 'e is found to be eternally +xisting( 'e is full of

$nowledge( 'e is %mniscient and 'e is "ll&blissful. 'e delegates 'is power to certain absolute infinitesimals( or(

in other words( the absolute infinitesimals are endowed with such potencies which enable them to transact affairswith the +ternal "uthority. %rdinarily we are placed in a region where all sorts of imperfections and undesirable

situations are prominent( and we require that our bitter experience should de#ise some means to get rid of these

unpleasant situations@ the painful propensities must be $ic$ed out from our acti#ities. We should be prepared forthe stage where we can realise our own real sel#es. We should not trouble oursel#es here engaging oursel#es in

amusements and other things. !t is necessary that some prudent( preparatory measures should be adopted during

this life( that we should acquire the discretion to 4udge what is really desirable and ma$ing a thorough study of there#ealed scriptures which ha#e come to us( find out how we could ameliorate our conditions and gi#e up the

passionate desires that are engrossing such people as are busy with annihilating themsel#es or with fruit&see$ing

endea#ours.

he third party is $nown as ,ha$tas or de#otees who possess ,ha$ti which is the #ehicular agent to carry us to th"bsolute. !t will act as the tie uniting the 6ersonality of the 0ord and our personalities. %ur persons should be

united with the 6ersonality of od( and that 6ersonality of od&head is purely spiritual and has no mundane

reference. !f we wish to $now 'im by any mundane reference that would be li$e trying to send rays from the retin

to the sun. Aust as we recei#e rays emanating from the self&luminous disc of the sun( so by the mercy of theSupreme 0ord we will be able to $now what 'e is( and after learning this( we will engage oursel#es for 'is

purpose. We will ha#e nothing else to do in this world. We ha#e got the only purpose of associating oursel#es wit

the Spirit( with the %#er&soul. When we lea#e this mortal coil( we will be engaged in some occupation or other( buwe should not thin$ that in the subtle bodies we will continue these conditions and ha#e our en4oyment. his

en4oyment is temporary and in the long run becomes the cause of binding us to grosser coils. ,ut if we ha#e any

mind to engage oursel#es with the +ternity( with "ll&$nowledge( and %ne Who is de#oid of ignorance and full ofincessant ,liss( we must respond to 'is call( we should be participating with the "bsolute and not with the non&

absolute en#ironment here. %ur phenomenal existence is not at all sympathetic to our highest aspiration. %ur so&

called relati#es show that they are #ery $ind to us( but in the end we find that they too wish to draw something

from us and at best ha#e only some wordly moti#e. hey are not $ind to us in the best sense. We should not bedissuaded by their influence. We should ha#e a stern will to gi#e up all our passionate en4oying habits( as well as

the inclination for self&annihilation which the empricists Gsic: see$. he desire for annihilation as well as the

tendency for en4oyment are to be sacrificed at the altar of de#otion. hey do wrong things. hey en4oy instead ofser#ing( and we want that we should be set free from all these wrong ideas of the speculati#e people of the world.

We are aware of the history of ci#ilisation for the last ten thousand years and we expect that when the world shall

ha#e run for some ten thousand years more some new troubles will arise and the human race will be destroyed bysome influence which we cannot foretell now. So( the "bsolute is to be enquired into( what 'e is( whether 'e is a

human being( or whether 'e belongs to the lower creation( or whether 'e is of a stony character@ whether the

"bsolute is neuter( masculine or feminine. 0et us stri#e to acquaint oursel#es with all these ideas and thoughtsabout the next world and the "bsoluteB whether the region of the "bsolute has all sorts of manifesti#e phases(

whether these phases are agreeable and free from in#asion of wrong thoughts. So( if we want to wash off all our

wrong conceptions we will ha#e to surrender to the "bsolute !nfinity and then we shall be in touch with 'im. We

will ha#e the opportunity of do#e&tailing oursel#es with 'im and no other ideas and thoughts should dissuade us


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from ha#ing touch with the "bsolute. !f we can secure the tendency of lo#e for the "bsolute( we will be attracted

by 'im. 'e 'imself is 0o#e. We ha#e no lo#ing tendency( whereas 'e is full of lo#e. We should try to meet themerciful strain by which 'e wants to attract us to 'im( to 'is region where there is no defect( no disagreeable

feature( no ignorance and no undesirable situation. We should go bac$ there. We do not carry our bones and flesh

there. he proprietor of these bones and flesh is to go there( lea#ing here all these dirty appurtenances for theen4oyment of 4ac$als and dogs and those creatures of the lower creation who ha#e no de#otional moti#e at all( wh

do not want to come in touch with the "bsolute !nfinity.

ost of the people of the globe are #ery busy with getting fruits( gratifying their senses by attending cinemas(

dri#ing motorcars and they are quite indifferent about ser#ing those who can guide them to the "bsolute region."ll the undesirable situations which impeded our course are to be eliminated. he en4oying and empirical acti#itie

are obstructing our ways and we should try to dri#e them off. We should want that we should be in touch only wit

the "bsolute. "s de#otees( we are always in touch with 'im and ne#er dissociated from 'im. We want to ser#e'im. We want to regain our position. We need not pass our time 4ust as ordinary people do. We should submit to

the hea#en&sent messenger and follow his dictations. %ur philosophies and empirical $nowledge will be of no use

to us. %ur de#otion should not be directed towards dogs( horses( men and women and other ob4ect of worldlyphenomena. We need not ser#e such things. We should be determined to come in touch with the "bsolute Who is

#ery different from the non&absolute phenomena. "ny person or thing that ser#es the 6ersonality of od( should b

treated in a friendly manner. "nd if any persons or thing pro#es hostile in the cause of 'is ser#ice( we should lea#

that off. We should not try to understand the spiritual plane from the material standpoint.

/2&& What do you understand by spiritual land?

-2&& ,y Spiritual world we mean where we can ha#e association with the spirit. he "bsolute reser#es the right o

not being exposed to human senses. he human senses are all prisoners. hey are all blind fellows. hey cannot

see 'im. ather they indulge in wrong ideas and gi#e trouble to the people. he word ;od; has been created byman. he direction is quite right( but what men produce in their factory is wrong. he people are engaged in non&

absolute propaganda. his should cease.

/2&& hose who wor$ for the welfare of the people( are they not good?

-2&& Some people try to be good in order to en4oy a peaceful life. hey are friendly to others to get their help in

return( and in most cases the aim is worldly contentment.

/2&& 'ow should we $now the will of od?

-2&& We are absolute infinitesimals and 'e is "bsolute !nfinity. !f we are sincere and submit to 'im( we will com

in touch with 'im( and $now 'is Will. here are self&sufficient people who thin$ they can( by their empirical

$nowledge( $now e#erything. ,ut the "bsolute cannot be $nown by our empirical $nowledge. his attempt wouldbe li$e sending rays from the retina to the sun to $now what the sun is. We should ha#e nothing to do with the

agnostics and *arma$andins of this world. hey will try to dissuade us from ha#ing an aptitude for de#otion. he

de#otees are the most intelligent people. We should await the day when the erciful 0ord will send 'is messengeto gi#e us that cessation of all connections with the world which we call death. We shall then be able to li#e the li

of de#otees. %ur selection of friends should be among the de#otees. he agnostics and $arma$andins will only lea

us to trouble. he de#otees are the only prudent and 4udicious people. he path of de#otion is the shortest and

easiest way. !t is better that whate#er we ha#e gathered in this world( we should lea#e aside. We want to disowne#erything that is deemed to be quite suitable to persons who are busy with mundane affairs. We should consider

oursel#es lower than the blade of grass. We ha#e now secured some non&absolute things which are quite

inefficacious for our purpose. We should simply submit to the instructions of the de#otees whose only occupationis to come in touch with the "bsolute.

/2&& What do you thin$ of the yogis?


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-2&& We do not subscribe to the principle of yoga. he Cogis thin$ that they should ha#e some&thing for their ow

hey ha#e no eternal purpose. he !ndian yogis thin$ that when they come in touch with the "bsolute( they will brestored to their original position and they will ha#e nothing to do later on. hey simply want emancipation from

all troubles. he yogi thin$s that when his duties are finished he will be able to pass his time in indulgence. So

indulgence is the ultimate ob4ect of a yogi. "nd for this they stri#e for emancipation from the bonds of $arma. hde#otees are first class yogis( but they care #ery little for emancipation. hey do not require these things. " de#ot

would be more happy to abide by the decision of 6ro#idence instead of throwing off the troublous situation he has

been put into. he Cogis are inclined to ha#e some personal moti#e( because( they require peace for themsel#es.hey do not want to engage themsel#es in the ser#ice of the 0ord( but they try to get something for their own. !f a

yogi is at all successful in his endea#ours to come in contact with the "bsolute( 'e shows his stony aspect at that

time. he yogis thin$ that od should be represented as a neuter thing( that no idea of sex should disturb their

mind. he yogis want to reach $ai#alya of ;!swara&sayu4ya; and ;,rahma&Sayu4ya;. hey want to be made intood( li$e the sla#e "ltamsh who usurped the throne of his masters. hese are wrong ideas. he yogis are ne#er

successful in their attempts and we should not adopt the principles of a yogi. !n paradise all sorts of en4oyments ar

supplied. ,ut who is the en4oyer? 'e is a poor man who has got all sorts of bitter experience in this world.

!t is better for us not to be agnostics( yogis( $arma$andins and empiricists.

he Supreme 0ord disclosed before the people the true system of de#otion. here was no party who could claim a

better system. he $arma$andins and 4nanins ga#e up their established ideas and thoughts( they all submitted to th

true and lo#ing wishes of the supreme "uthority Whom we want to see$. he Supreme "uthority is to be ser#edand not the things which are hostile to the Supreme "uthority.

What should be the Supreme "uthority? What is 'e? Should the word ;it; ser#e for indicating the "bsolute? %r

should the predominating aspect be addressed as 5he5 and the predominated aspect as 5she5? he followers of the %

estament li$e to apply ;it; to od and want that od should be neuter( and that no personal forms should beattributed to 'im( in order to differentiate 'im from the phenomenal existence. Some people say that if only the

sub4ecti#e aspect is ascribed to od&head then the sub4ecti#e sic: aspect of od&head is neglected. We require tha

od&head should comprise both sub4ecti#e and ob4ecti#e aspects. here must be some ob4ects for the sub4ectotherwise the sub4ecti#ity cannot stand. When we tal$ of some relationship( the reciprocating portion should ne#e

to neglected. !n theism we find that the predominating part should reciprocate the predominated parts@ these two

parts should comprise the Whole thing( otherwise the 6lenary is di#ided into two( or is di#ided into three.

'ere in this world we find #arious relationships li$e that between husband and wife( between master and ser#ant(between friend and friend and between children and parents. !n the transcendental region the Supreme 0ord is the

only ob4ect of these relationships. 'e is the only 'usband( the only aster( the only friend and the only 2hild.

here is also the neutral relationship with od&head. So in all we find there are fi#e $inds of relationships we can

ha#e with the Supreme 0ord. !n the 7ew estament od is described as od the )ather( od the son and od the'oly host@ but they neglect the fi#e relationships mentioned abo#e. Ser#ice of od in these fi#e relationships ha

been gi#en to man$ind by Shri *rishna 2haitanya. Ser#ice is the only function of the soul. We ignore the body

when we are busy with the ser#ice of the 0ord.

/2&& Why do you require ser#ice?

-2&& %f all the occupations the best one is to attend to the ser#ice of the "bsolute. an wants to lord it o#er the

phenomena( but in the long run he becomes a sla#e of the phenomena. )or instance( there are people who wish to

en4oy smo$ing and intoxicating liqueurs( but ultimately they become sla#es of those habits. We de#otees do notwant our entities to be absorbed in the !nteger( we want to adopt the process of de#otion and ha#e some permanen

engagement. We should examine what we really are. "re we the external frame( the emporium of sense or the

mind? !f we analyse( we find that these are foreign elements incorporated into us. !n order to get rid of al this dirt(

the only course left to us is de#otion which is ser#ice( ser#ice fully filtered and unalloyed.

/2&& o you $now the "bsolute gradually or at once?


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-2&& he $nowledge of the "bsolute can be had all at once( there is no factor of time and space. !f we are at all

intent on $nowing 'im( we must ha#e some sort of ob4ecti#e reference for 'is sub4ecti#e acti#ity. 7ow we arebusy with worldly affairs@ we thin$ we are men and women. !nstead of doing so( we should be ser#ing 'im( and

when 'e participates with our pure sel#es( we will be set free from all the tempting influence of the different thin

of 7ature. We want that we should go bac$. 0i$e a shooting star( we ha#e strayed out of the range of 'is attractio0i$e a comet( we are 4ourneying without cessation. %ur eternal condition is that we are absolute infinitesimals( an

as such( we should do#e&tail with the "bsolute !nfinity. he function between 'im and us is lo#e. 'e is the 0o#er

!f 'e lo#es us( we will be ta$en bac$. !f 'e has an apathetic tendency towards us it is because we are a#erse to'im@ and we will be undergoing 8H millions of births and deaths( again and again. !t would be 4udicious for us tha

we should go bac$ to the "bsolute !nfinity( and that all our engagement should be with 'im( and not with anybod

else.

"ro. -lbert &. Suthers !nterviews

The -uthor -nswers /uestions o

"roessor Suthers o 0hio 1niversity

Aanuary( 19E9

/2&& What is >edantism?

-2&& %ne&sided and biased critics may understand absolute monism by the term !ndian >edantism( but those who

are impartial and who 4udge things from all angles of #ision( find the transcendental personality of od&head as thsettled conclusion of the >edantic doctrine. he theory of non&distinction has been wrongly preached as

propounded in the >edanta( before a world which is a#erse to od( being disguised with the imperfect( partial and

distorted conception of the >edanta 6hilosophy of !ndia which is the uni#ersal reality. !n reality the doctrine ofpersonality of od&head is the proper conclusion of the >edanta and that is the true interpretation of the >edanta

by the unbiased learned scholars.

he unique and genuine interpretation of the >edanta( as contained in the Shrimad ,haga#atam( points at the true

>edantic doctrine. Shri >yasade#a( the compiler of the >edanta&sutras( has himself as commentator elucidated thetrue meaning of the Sutras or aphorisms compiled by him( in the Shrimad ,haga#atam which re#eals their intrinsi

import which equalises all sides( reconciles all di#ersities and is beyond all sectarian conflicts created by #arious

professors of empiric $nowledge( who gi#e different shapes to the >edanta in their laboratories of mentalresearches. !t is only they that secure the true >edantic principles from the Shrimad ,haga#atam who can sa#e

themsel#es from the danger of falling into the ditches of #arious imaginary principles and wrong sectarianism.

o be brief( the difference between the followers of aya#ada( or absolute&monism and the >aishna#a >edantics

is that the former ha#e a bias for the idea of 7ir#isesha or non&distinction( whereas the latter accept the eternality

of 6ersonal od&head. he monists are atheists in disguise@ on the other hand the >aishna#as are sincere theists@the former are followers of the method of induction i.e. the process of reasoning from particular data to a general

one( and the latter are followers of the deducti#e method of reasoning by which we arri#e at the necessaryconsequences of admitted or established premises@ i.e. a monist is inimical towards self&surrender to od( while a

>aishna#a is inclined towards it. ost of the intelligentsia of the present day !ndia are empiricists and as such(

more or less( supporters of the aya#ada of the monists. "charya Shan$ara has extensi#ely propagated this

aya#ada by dint of his exceeding intelligence and thus been able to capti#ate men5s minds.

he supporters of Sa#iseshaada( the doctrine of eternity of personal odhead( are $nown as >aishna#as or

theists. We shall call any persons of any country and any era as >aishna#as or theists to the same extent that this

Sa#isesha#ada is found in them. We thin$ that the noble Aesus propagated Sa#isesha#ada( as "charyas Shri


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>isnuswami( Shri amanu4a( Shri adh#a( Shri 7imbar$a( etc.( did in !ndia. he Sa#isesha#ada as propagated by

all the teachers of the world( more or less( found perfection in the preachings of the different !ndian "charyas(which ha#e attained the climax of mutual reconciliation of all souls of pure $nowledge distinct from matter. his

Sa#isesha is the conclusion of ahaprabhu Shri *rishna 2haitanya e#( Who( though od 'imself( played the

part of a Supra&human 6rofessor of the /ni#ersity of 7adia.

/2&& id the worshippers of *rishna encourage the obscenity of the engra#ings on many 'indu emples?

-2&& hose who are actual worshippers of *rishna are ne#er in fa#our of indecencies. "ll decency and moralityonly are entirely confined to the 0otus&)eet of Shri *rishna. he highest sense of morality of the unadulterated

soul consists in its lo#e towards the %#er&soul. "nd the culmination of this pure lo#e is found only in the de#oteesof *rishna. he best of the moral rules as preached by the noble Aesus( do not come anywhere near the principle o

the "morous 0o#e of the de#otees of *rishna( for ser#ice thereof.

/2&& Cour 'oliness seems to ha#e ta$en a biased #iew in saying that the good moral precepts of 2hrist come

nowhere near ;the morality; of amorous lo#e of the de#otees of *rishna;.

-2&& 2ertainly not. We claim to be greater and better 2hristians than Westerners. %ur 4udgment is not restrictedonly to secular morality. he morality of the ob4ect of spiritual lo#e transcends the supra&natural morality( which

again surpasses secular morality. !f 2hristian morality is perfected thereby( then it may be said to recei#e proper

nourishment. o a pure soul that remains situated on that transcendentally moral plane of lo#e( the secularmoralities appear reduced to the smallness of pygmies. ,ut there is not found any feeling of apathy( nor attachmen

towards these secular moralities. %n the other hand all moralities wait li$e maids behind the spiritual moralities to

become glorified( being permitted to ser#e the 0ord of transcendental 0o#e. he character of a culturist of spiritualo#e is ne#er de#oid of morality. %ne hostile to morality or fallen from it can ne#er be a spiritual man. !n the bla-e

of the teaching of Shri 2haitanya e#a5s ideal( it has been propagated that dissoluteness is not de#otion. !ts

palpable e#idence is found when we reflect on the character of Shri 2haitanya e#a or the followers at 'is heel.

he people of the realm of the secular morality concerned with the worldly en4oyments and their renunciation wilnot be able to grasp in their tiniest brains how fostered by the climax of morality and how adored in the highest

degree by all the morality of the uni#erse are the "morous Sports of *rishna so much glorified by the noble clan o

such high personages of strictly continent character as the de#otees of Shri 2haitanya e#a li$e Shri upa( ShriSanatana( Shri aghunatha asa( Shri aghun tha sic: ,hatta( Shri opal ,hatta( etc.

/2&& 'ow can your 'oliness5s statements be reconciled with the descriptions that are found about *rishna5s

amorous sports?

-2&& *rishna5s "morous Sports are not temporal li$e the lustful sports of dramatic heroes and heroines li$eomeo&Auliet or e#en ideal spouses. 0ust as pre#alent in this world is only a mental passion@ but the lust of the

transcendental region of *rishna has its own form. 'ere lust is always goaded by the enemy


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morality or immorality( may( due to the meagreness of their intellect( wrongly regard the lustfulness of *rishna( th

result of 'is depotism which is only 'is( as #ulgar li$e that of common men and other creatures.

/2&& !n the scriptures of !ndia( adorable eities ha#e been represented as creatures of the lower creation li$e fish(

tortoise( boar( etc. !s this appro#ed by the sense of decency of ci#ilised humanity? Some again are in fa#our of

supporting such representations as allegorical symbols.

-2&& !magination does not find a place in >aishna#a 6hilosophy. !n it or in the Shrimad ,haga#atam which is the

highest scripture for all men in the uni#erse has been described the topmost ontology about od( million timesbetter than what the most ci#ilised races of humanity fi#e thousands years old( nay( as old as se#eral millions of

eras( can concei#e of e#en in imagination. he eternal transcendental forms of od that descend or are manifestedaccording to the gradual e#olution of the aptitude for offering ser#ice by the totally purified soul quite aloof from

the regions of the body and mind( when man becomes the worshipper of the ultimate eality at the loftiest stage o

ci#ilisation( are ne#er the idols of imagination or allegories li$e unreal things manufactured in the mental factory o

man or li$e the imaginary animal deities of the barbarians such as the tiger&god( serpent&god( horse&god( etc. heworship of the >ishnu !ncarnations( li$e )ish( urtle( etc.( is not fabrication of imagination li$e that of one of the

fi#e deities of the 'enotheists formed out of imagination( based on the coinage of set speeches li$e the imaginary

conception of the forms of ,rahman aishna#a 6hilosophy( the Sporti#eanifestation of od is of two $inds. %ne $ind is the creation of the material and spiritual uni#erse and its


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systemati-ation with in#iolable rules. he school of intelligent empiricists can to a certain extent experience this

type of od5s Sporti#e anifestation. he second $ind is the escent of od5s ranscendental Sport in this createuni#erse. !t is the 4i#as who are the attendants in 'is Sports. hey become attached to matter ha#ing de#iated from

their own essential nature as the result of their desire for en4oyment.

,ut when again the soul of a 4i#a( gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of od at the feet of a

representati#e of 'is( i.e.( a true de#otee 'is( he begins to get bac$ his pure essential nature gradually unfolded(and od5s ranscendental +ternal )orms appear as the ob4ects of his worship according to the comprehension of

'is ser#ice in the graded e#olution of acceptance of 'is protection( self&surrender or theism. So in such a case

there remains no room( e#en in the slightest degree( for any form of imaginati#e doctrines of the so&called ci#iliseor unci#ilised human minds( whether apotheosistic( anthropomorphic( henotheistic( theosophic( theriomorphic or

therianthropic. he real( eternal and transcendental i#ine )orms re#eal themsel#es to the pure souls according to

the nature of their ser#ing mood in the e#olutionary growth there. he only cause of these i#ine escents is theintense ercy of od towards 4i#as. !n +urope the theories of physical e#olution of arwin and 0amarc$ ha#e

been considered. ,ut it is in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy alone that we see the fully scientific and real conception o

each eternal and transcendental i#ine )orm for worship by the freed souls according to their e#olutionary growthof ser#ing mood.

We can notice the different stages of animal life from the in#ertebrates to the fully grown human beings. hese

stages ha#e been classified by the !ndian sages of a scientific outloo$ in ten orders( #i-(


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spending a single moment thereof in other useless pursuits. !f we do not accept the doctrine of transmigration of th

soul and adopt the instruction of the Shrimad ,haga#atam( we shall not be able to get o#er the all&de#ouringdisaster of regarding matter as the sole ob4ect of our concern( which has $ept its mouth wide open.

hough most of the 2hristians do not admit transmigration( yet many instellectual glants sic: of the 2hristian

world ha#e shown se#eral instances of their acceptance of the doctrine. +#en in the ,ible 3:we find ;"nd as Aesus

passed by( he saw a man who was blind from his birth. "nd his disciples as$ed him( saying( && 5aster( who hadcommited the sin? his man or his parents( that he was born blind?; !t is seen that e#en some 2hristian )athers

clearly ga#e instructions about transmigration. %rigen saidB ;!s it not more in conformity with reason that e#ery

soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a body and introduced according to its deserts and formeractions?;H:;! am sure that !( such as you see me here( ha#e li#ed a thousand times and ! ha#e to come again

another thousand times; says oethe.

What the ree$s called ;etempsychosis5 or what is ;ransmigration5 in the +nglish language( was at one time(

more or less( admitted in ancient reece( +gypt and many places in the west. Some say that the apostles of 2hristthe reat( failing to reconcile their pre#ious and subsequent conclusions with the doctrine of ransmigration( wer

compelled to discard it. Cet no rationalist among the 2hristians has been able to refute the doctrine on the basis of

sound reasoning@ on the other hand( most of them ha#e had to admit it e#en. 'eredotus( 6indar( 6lato etc.( ha#e alaccepted it. 'uxley( the illustrious scientist of the nineteenth century( has written in his religious wor$( 5+#olution

and +thics5B ;7one but #ery hasty thin$ers will re4ect it on the ground of inherent absurdity( li$e the doctrine of

e#olution itself( #i-.( that of transmigration which has its root in the world of reality and it may claim such supporas the great argument of 5"nalogy5 is capable of supplying.;

6rofessor 0utolos$i has said( ;! cannot gi#e up my con#iction of a pre#ious existence on earth before my birth( an

! ha#e the certainty to be born again after my death( until ! ha#e assimilated all human experiences( ha#ing been

many times male and female( wealthy and poor( free and ensla#ed( generally ha#ing experienced all conditions ofhuman existence.; ,ut such transmigration theories of the empiricists of the west or those of the western

philosophers of the se#enteenth and eighteenth centuries li$e )ranciscus ercurius 'elmont( 0eichtenburg(

0essing( 'erder( Schopenhauer( etc.( or of Aallaluddin umi of the Sufi sect of 6ersia( or of the heosophists( or othe !ndian 7yaya 6hilosophy under the aphorismB ;)rom the desire for the mother5s breast&mil$ due to the habit o

the pre#ious life(; or of the ,uddhistic doctrine of annihilation in matter & these are assailable by #arious hostile

reasonings and( ha#ing their origin in inducti#e concepts are incomplete and imperfect. ,ut the conclusion in this

respect of the Shrimad ,haga#atam is fully flawless and significant. he >aishna#a 6hilosophy ha#ing shown theroyal road to the acquirement of the highest blessedness e#en in the present life( there is no need for waiting for

future li#es. "s such( the >aishna#a 6hilosophy is thoroughly aloof from all wrangling full of useless riddles o#er

the doctrine of transmigration.

/2&& ! am able to feel the super&excellence of the >aishna#a 6hilosophy among the !ndian 6hilosophies. ,ut to mmind the acceptance of idolatry in the >aishna#a 6hilosophy li$e the other !ndian philosophies seems to be a

stigma in it.

-2&& !dolatry has ne#er been accepted in the >aishna#a 6hilosophyB on the other hand( it has been more or lessaccepted in the other philosophies( at least mentally( if not in so many words. !n the #ery word 5,haga#an5


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excellence. od is always "ll&ood( "ll&lory and "ll&,eauty. 'is ,eauty is #isible only to the transcendental

eye. od is the ranscendental eality( 6ure( )ull and Sentient in essence and Sentient +ssence is 'is )orm.

!t is true that od has no material body( but 'e has 'is Sat

8/13/2019 Colloquies With Foreigners

Colloquies With Foreigners by Bhaktisddhanta

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