Matisak: Tracey Matisak Zintz: Dr. Andrea Zintz M/F: Male/Female Speaker [MUSICAL INTRO] Matisak: Hello, and welcome. I’m Tracey Matisak, your host for today’s program. Today’s leaders are dealing with continuous and rapid change; the tone for organization culture is usually set by leadership, and carried through the behavior of all the organization’s members. When things change, and the organization is pressured to change in response, how can a leader guide the organization to make the necessary changes to its culture, so that all its members are aligned behind the vision, goals and mission? In this seminar, Dr. Andrea Zintz a change management expert with over 25 years experience at a global, consumer products company, will help us learn why corporate culture is a critical factor, steps for aligning values, attitudes and habits within an organization, and share some lessons she learned, while leading a successful culture change.
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Changing the Organizational Culture - Andrea Zintz
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Matisak: Tracey MatisakZintz: Dr. Andrea ZintzM/F: Male/Female Speaker
[MUSICAL INTRO]
Matisak: Hello, and welcome. I’m Tracey Matisak, your host for today’s program.
Today’s leaders are dealing with continuous and rapid change; the tone for
organization culture is usually set by leadership, and carried through the behavior
of all the organization’s members. When things change, and the organization is
pressured to change in response, how can a leader guide the organization to make
the necessary changes to its culture, so that all its members are aligned behind the
vision, goals and mission? In this seminar, Dr. Andrea Zintz a change
management expert with over 25 years experience at a global, consumer products
company, will help us learn why corporate culture is a critical factor, steps for
aligning values, attitudes and habits within an organization, and share some
lessons she learned, while leading a successful culture change. Please use your
participant guide to help you follow along with our program. And now, let’s
welcome Dr. Andrea Zintz. Great to have you with us.
Zintz: Thank you very much.
Matisak: Tell us what we’re going to be talking about.
Zintz: Well, today, we’re going to be covering some information about organization
culture, why it’s important, how it’s critical in organizations, when change occurs
to change culture, how leaders can go about doing this, some steps that I’ve
learned as a change agent to making change happen successfully.
Matisak: Okay. Take it away.
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Zintz: So, when I was a member of the management board of a small start-up company,
spun off from a very large parent company, we determined we needed to change
the corporate culture. In my role as vice president of human resources, I became
a change agent, as well as a leader. Since many of their employees, and all of our
leadership, had been with the parent company—which, by the way, had a very
dominant corporate culture, and had been very successful—there was a strong
bias toward behaving in ways that were endemic to that organization. This new
company was facing a new market, a new product for that market that represented
a breakthrough, and a paradigm shift for the customers. And we were hiring a
very diverse employee population, from different types of companies and
organizations.
We were certain that if people continued with attitudes and behaviors and
ways that were habitual in the parent culture, then we would not be setting
ourselves up for success in our new market, nor would we have the capability of
bringing in learnings from our experiences with the customers, working quickly
with the information, and turning the information and strategies into tactics that
we could act on the very next day. Also, with all the diversity we were hiring, at
the rate of 50 new people a month, we needed to create a very high-energy, very
open environment of acceptance and cooperation, so that we could be the high-
performing, entrepreneurial company we needed to be.
That culture, the parent culture, was very steeped in their success, and they
were complacent about what it took to create it. They had a very mature market,
they were the market leaders. The organization was rule-oriented, somewhat
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authoritarian, and bureaucratic, and did not support innovation. The president of
the new company realized just how critical it was to be strategic and conscious
about changing the corporate culture. We decided to embark upon a culture
change process that was executed at the same time as a product launch, hiring
new employees at a very rapid rate, working with a high financial burn rate, and
not having much time for the soft stuff.
Well, I want to share my lessons with you, leader to leader. Now, one
lesson I learned, as a member of our management board, from being part of our
change experience is that successful culture change requires leaders to listen, and
learn continuously, modeling and building the capacity for change into the fabric
of their organization. Now, today, our objectives are that you will learn why
corporate culture is a critical factor in a successful business. You’ll learn some
steps for aligning values, attitudes and habits within an organization, and some
lessons about leading culture change, learned from me, as a successful change
agent in a company that was part of a large corporation.
Now, what we’ll cover today, as I mentioned earlier, is what culture is,
and why it’s so critical; the problems that result when the culture is misaligned
with business goals; the critical role that leadership plays in that change; essential
steps then to changing culture, and some lessons from my successful culture
change experience in my organization.
So, what is corporate culture? Well, it’s simply what people say and do
while work gets done. It’s the collective reality that permeates the organization
and is expressed through behavior. Unwritten rules are at the foundation for how
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employees choose to behave. Attitudes about what is expected of the individual
in terms of work, hours, the priority of the company, and employees’ lives, home
life, work/life balance, and downsizing and outsourcing—these may not be
formulated as corporate values, but the intent is clear, and the effect is clearly
experienced.
When you walk into an organization as a new employee, or even as a
temporary worker, you can feel the organization culture at work. It’s felt in the
way people approach one another, the patterns or the way the behavior flows,
around lunch time, work hours, gathering places, as well as informal
conversations. It’s embedded in the values, the attitudes, the habits of employees,
regardless of their level. And it’s fueled by a collective mindset, a way of
thinking that is transmitted and eventually shared by all.
So, how do you lead your company in a way that maximizes the
organizational capacity to drive toward business results, when you’re in a
constantly changing environment, and you know that culture is a force that
influences the every day behaviors of employees? Well, at our company, we had
a very clear mission for our marketplace, a vision for what we wanted to create
and a strategy that would fulfill on the mission and vision, as well as goals that
were rolled out through a management by objectives approach.
We also had all the systems and structures in place; because we spun off
from our parent company, we had some policies, we already had financial
systems, we had information systems, performance management systems, as well
as a clear organization structure. We also had in place training, skill development
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in sales, sales training, technical training, leadership and management programs;
we also had a management structure to go along with it. All of these skilled
programs were chosen to be in support of the business strategy. The leadership at
our company had all been members of the parent company, and although we were
all misfits, so to speak, at our old company, our style or values and our habits
were borne of that culture.
We unconsciously behaved in much that way, and had not given thought
to how our behavior needed to coordinate to support the kind of alignment we
wanted from the organization, in support of the goals. Having said that, we were
still becoming a strong team, and we were focused on the urgent goals and
objectives of the company. What people felt safe to do and say every day,
however, was not in support of the vision. In fact, the old culture was so strong
that folks, including leadership, would say one thing that seemed in support of the
vision, but do what was comfortable.
As the vice president of human resources, I took it upon myself to create a
diversity committee of employees that represented all levels and departments in
the company, as well as races and genders. We conducted a survey of the
population to collect some perceptions about the culture, in order to get a
description of it, from the various perspectives of the demographic population in
the organization. We learned from the survey that there was a very clear
difference in perception by race and gender. Also, there was a great deal of
hesitancy to take risks to be authentic with others, for fear that it would hold back
ones career. In sharing it with the management board, the board realized that we
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had to make an intentional leadership strategy for changing the culture and
igniting authentic interactions—creativity, bold risk taking, and team work—
regardless of the differences, in order to meet our goals.
So, what makes the challenge of corporate culture so difficult? Well, it’s
its soft side; organizations use the process of developing core values as a means
for getting their arms around this softer side of managing and working in
organizations. Organizations can develop clear statements on values, to help
develop measures against those values. Value statements often get posted on
conference room walls, and in some cases, these values are formulated at the top,
and handed down. Some values are formulated and articulated through a process
of input, communication, dialogue, and debate. Other values are simply lived out
through policy or practice, in the day to day world of doing business.
Well, at our company, the board joined with the diversity committee to
become a culture development committee, and they worked on a value statement
that represented the diverse input of all its members. Well, to make things a bit
more complex, there are three levels of behavior that occurs. I may have my
personal values, attitudes and choices around behaviors, but that gets influenced
when I’m part of a group, and it’s influenced further with the systems, rules and
processes of the organization. There can be a culture within a team, influenced by
the leader or strong member, just as there is an organization-wide culture. And
this may or may not support the goals of the team or company.
Often, especially with a large and successful organization, there is an
underlying sense of complacency; as I’ve mentioned before in our company, it
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comes out in ways like this. “Well, we’ve always done it this way, and it’s
worked.” Stepping out to behave differently entails risk, and without a
compelling and urgent reason to change, these risks are rarely one that employees
will take, or sustain over time, so they become new habits. Some form of
leadership is necessary, a compelling reason to change, a clear vision, a sense of
urgency about it, clear communications, reinforcement from some kind of a
guiding coalition, and a way to mark the changes so that they can be reinforced,
and anchored in the corporate culture.
Our corporate culture development committee, led by our president, was a
guiding coalition for our organization. They communicated the value statement,
acted as champions and advocates for culture change, and they raised issues for
the leader’s attention. Now, just as leadership influences the way a corporate
culture develops, leadership is critical to the alignment of values, attitudes and
habits. A lack of leadership around these factors causes a culture to find its own
equilibrium, or the loudest voice or value that is heard. This may not be in
alignment with the business goals.
Coordinated leadership is a further challenge, especially when creating
culture change. Leaders must agree on what behavior to use, where, and when.
Communication is a very important alignment mechanism; if the leadership isn’t
attending, to have communication that’s focused, it contributes to a lack of clear
focus in the culture. Now, you’ve probably heard that you get what you measure.
The key to alignment lays partly in accountability; when something is measured,
it is possible to get better alignment through holding others accountable to the
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measure, and arranging rewards so that they’re tied to the achievement of a goal.
The lack of these aspects can hurt the alignment of values, attitudes and habits.
Now, leadership is distinct from management, and it’s the key to
successful culture change. Once formed, our culture development committee
went off-site for three days to do some team development work, and to generate a
vision statement that was a product of all the perspectives of those on the team,
something that incorporated our mission statement. We spent the rest of the time
together defining the kind of behaviors that create a high performing team that
will take risks and learn together, used all the potential of the diversity on the
team.
We also concentrated on activities we could create that would move the
organizations towards that culture; things such as policy changes, leadership
training guidelines, and other items like that. Establishing direction means
developing a vision of the future, often the distant future, and developing
strategies for producing the changes needed to achieve the vision. Aligning
people means communicating the direction in words, and deeds, to all those who’s
cooperation may be needed, so as to influence the creation of teams and coalitions
that understand the vision and the strategies, and accept their validity.
Well, when we announced the vision at the employee communication
meetings, we expected a standing ovation. After all, we were so excited about
what we’d created. However, no one even batted an eye. We were confused and
disappointed; however our president noticed that he didn’t appreciate the parent
company’s value statement, until he had a chance to challenge it formally, in a
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day-long meeting. He suggested that we should have a vision challenge, and
create an experience for the employees to generate some strategies, as well as
learn some basic skills to support those strategies. So we invented a program for
all the employees we called ACE—A-C-E. It stood for Adventures in Culture
Enhancement.
It was a three-day program to mobilize the organization, in groups of
about 80 at a time, to challenge the vision, learn some basic skills in
communication, and generate some strategies for culture change. We intended,
by this, to motivate and inspire each employee to work with us on creating our
future. For us, motivating and inspiring meant energizing people to overcome
major political, bureaucratic and resource barriers to change; a place to share
some personal passion and enthusiasm, and satisfy these unfulfilled needs. Now,
this type of leadership can produce a real dramatic change in corporate culture. It
is a critical element in successful culture change, but it must be supported with
some other factors.
There are three leverage points that drive action leading to results:
knowledge and skills, tools and resources, and mind set. Now, as a leader,
mindset is a critical factor in leveraging change. How many of you listening to
this have a goal to become more physically fit? Think about it. Do you have the
knowledge and skills to do it? Do you have the tools and resources at hand? It is
mindset that generates the discipline of making the right choices to accomplish
the goals. Culture change involves the leaders own mindset as well. This mindset
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is often underestimated as one of the drivers of action, but it is the single most
important driver.
Culture change begins with how we behave, and how we relate. This
means that if we want to change how we behave and relate, it all begins with our
thinking. A mindset of objection leads to a sabotage, attack, and resistance. It
often sounds like “I won’t”. A mindset of resignation and apathy leads to inaction
and avoidance, and it often sounds like “I can’t”. A mindset of obligation and
compliance leads to doing the minimum required; to go through the motions, and
to act only when told to. Employees may also attempt to erode the standard, try to
kind of bring the culture back to the status quo, and this often sounds like “I have
to.”
However, a mindset of interest leads to action based on interest level, and
sounds like “I’d like to,” and a mindset of commitment and ownership to the
change leads to continual self-generated action, and creativity, as well as
innovation, and it often sounds like “I will, no matter what.” Point here: You
cannot make a culture change with the first three mindsets; these are insufficient
to generate sustainable change. A sustainable level of achievement for vision and
goals requires actions beyond those that come from obligation or compliance.
Now, these essential mindsets can be generated by leaders through both
living and modeling the ownership, commitment and urgency appropriate to the
situation. Before our ACE, our Adventures in Cultural Enhancement program,
the leaders spent time planning our role in behavior, and coordinating them
thoughtfully. As many board members as possible were present for each of our
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ACE programs, and the president opened the program with a statement, that he
was declaring a safe place for truth-telling, and he would personally guarantee
that there would be no retribution for sticking one’s neck out to speak the truth.
We participated in, as board members, all the skills training, which
included role plays, and the president and I, as the vice president of human
resources, became the storytellers, who told the story of the company’s beginning.
We asked anyone in the audience who wanted to join in with the storytelling to
raise their hand during the chronology of the unfolding and say what was going
on in the company when they joined. We realized that we were responsible, as
leaders, for making the environment safe for telling the truth. This would be
created more by what we did than what we said.
Now, here’s something that very few people realize; the way we think
depends on the questions we ask ourselves. Thinking is really an internal
question and answer process. The great thing about this is that our thinking is in
our control, if we really get it, about the power of questions, about how they can
be the key to everything, beginning with our moods and our mindsets. These are
key skills to learn about being in charge of our thinking. Now, judger questions
generate a mood of helplessness, depression, self-doubt, low self-confidence,
when directed internally. Let me play some of these out for you, and I’d like you
to listen to these questions, and think about how they make you feel. What’s
wrong? Whose fault is it? How can I stay in control? How could I lose? How
could I get hurt? Why bother?
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So how did these make you feel? Many people respond that they make
people feel like helpless, depressed, in doubt of themselves, low confidence.
When you use these questions externally, we can get blaming, anger, and some
win/lose conflict. Now, let’s try some learner questions, and tell me how these
make you feel. What’s right? What am I responsible for? What is the big
picture? What can I learn? What is the most useful thing to do? What’s
possible? How do these questions make you feel? Well, when directed
internally, they can create a mood of open-mindedness, positivity, acceptance,
possibility, and flexibility. Used with others, these questions can get some
problem solving happening—innovation, accountability, information and
innovation.
These are all examples of questions we ask ourselves. Now the questions
we ask others come from the ones we ask ourselves, so which questions could you
ask yourself that would generate the kind of mindset that would lead to
possibility. So let’s take a look at the learner mindset some more. Learner
mindset is based in acceptance, curiosity, not knowing, and flexibility. Another
quality I could add to this list would be open-mindedness. It’s not that we want to
avoid a judger mindset; it’s human nature to be in a judger mindset. However,
engaging a learner mindset consciously and strategically, when faced with a need
for change, enables us and others to become more adaptable to shifts, different
ideas, perspectives, and challenges. Choosing the mindset we want to be in
involves asking these learner questions.
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Let me pause for a moment and simply review with you a little bit about
how learner and judger mindset is different from one another. Where judger
mindset is more around human nature, the learner mindset is more what we want
to move to, in terms of human spirit. Judger mindset involves advocating,
automatic behavior; it’s a bit critical and judgmental. It has a know-it already,
I’ve got to be right, my point of view is the only point of view. It’s the part of us
that causes us to bait with one another. Feedback can be seen as hurtful, and the
primary mood is protecting ourselves, attacking or defending.
Learner mindset is more about inquiring; it’s more thoughtful, it’s a place
where we’re more accepting and unbiased in our stance. We tend to go for
multiple perspectives, in an inquisitive way. We tend to be a little bit more
flexible and adaptive. Our point of view could include others, as well, and it
involves, instead of debate, dialogue. Frankly, the primary mood here is
curiosity, and you just can’t be in judger mindset when you’re curious. So, if you
ask yourself a learner question, just one learner question will move us and others
onto the path of possibility.
One of the skill sets that we taught at our ACE, Adventures in Cultural
Enhancement, program was seeking and telling, which we decided to employ in
the face of differences, in dealing with different ideas. The idea of this was to
remain in learner mindset, whenever faced with something that stirred our judger
mindset. The steps involve noticing when our judger mindset got hooked, and
then asking a learner question of the other person, listening generously, with a
mood of pure curiosity. We did it through role playing, and during the portion of
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the Adventures in Cultural Enhancement program, when we have the vision
challenge, employees sent representatives to a group in the main room to sit with
the management board and talk about the issues that currently were at play that
represented barriers to achieving our vision.
The rule of this exercise was, as leaders, we needed to stay in the learner
mindset, and ask questions of the representative that was bringing out the barriers.
This permitted the truth to be told, and heard by all present. By asking questions
as leaders, rather than defending, explaining or solving the issue that was being
brought up, we were seen as open, not knowing, curious, and accepting. This
inspired the employees to see room for their involvement, and contribution to
making the changes necessary in the culture.
The next day, after this experience, the employees were permitted to group
themselves by the themes that came out of the truth-sharing session. They were
requested to present back to the large group the issues they saw under that theme,
the aspects of the culture that would need emphasis, in order to make a difference
for that issues, and then what specific action the leadership could take for support
to make this happen. By the end of the last day of our three-day Adventures in
Cultural Enhancement program, employees stood up to announce that they were
thoroughly committed to taking personal responsibility for the behavior changes
necessary to support the kind of culture, one that we painted, that would generate
the vision.
They appreciated our leadership stance; they found it very inspiring. We
created through this ongoing structures we entitled “affinity groups,” around the
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most urgent issues, and we asked employees with a personal passion around that
theme, and ones that had ideas, to join one of these groups. These affinity groups
were expected to make proposals to the management board, for what kind of
structures, systems and skills that would need development, in order to bring
about the culture change to address their specific theme. It was a great time. The
mood of curiosity was really key for us in being able to hang in there as a leader,
and be able to just stay in the question.
So, here are the steps to culture change that we used at our company.
One: make the culture change a strategic objective. This means that the
leadership is squarely behind the change in both word and deed. The mindset is
evident in the way the leader speaks to the corporate vision, values and behaviors
that support them. The leaders must walk the talk, continuously, over time, and
consistently, to sustain the focus every day. Asking questions of employees when
walking around, from the learner mindset about employees, it helps if some
employees see the connection between changes in behavior, and changes in
strategy. This is very powerful. It’s also powerful for the leaders to speak to the
reason for changes, whenever possible, at meetings, training programs, and other
venues.
The second piece of the model is for employees that employees only
engage the new cultural norms when they are personally invested in them. This
means that there must be involvement in exploring and choosing the new vision,
values, and attitudes for themselves. The systems and skills of the organization
must be in place to support the change; if policies are out of step with the desired
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culture, then there will be an artificial barrier. Barriers are artificial because
they’re often of human construction. This could be attributed to intolerance for
difference, such as race, gender and level.
Now, thirdly, once there’s a structure for dialogue, agreement around new
behaviors, supported by leadership, and a good dose of listening and support of
resources, the barriers can then fall away. It’s important to remember that culture
change is a process. It’s not an event. There must be reinforcement of the
agreements for change in the planned communications within the organization,
even how the smallest meetings are conducted and managed. Employees must be
empowered, in creative ways, to step out with some new and perhaps
uncomfortable behaviors, in support of the desired culture, in everyday business.
Training in the skill sets most strategic to the change is a good idea.
Affinity groups, training, and policy changes made a true difference to reinforcing
the new culture. In our organization, this included a follow-up leadership training
program, with all managers within the company, to discuss the expectations of
leaders now in the new culture and help them design how they would now lead
and reinforce messages through both word and behavior in the new culture. We
spent time talking about it and achieving some alignment with all the managers
and leaders in the company at this meeting.
Finally, in the fourth part of the model, it’s critical to value all the
contributors to the culture change. If anyone feels disenfranchised, they may fall
into resignation. Here, it is important to attend to the usual, disenfranchised
groups for your organization, such as office assistants, other lower level
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employees. At our company, we have a non-exempt employee affinity group,
who became active and powerful in creating policy changes in training to support
our new culture.
With the culture change effort at my company, we created some metrics to
measure the culture changes. We conducted a baseline, and a follow-up employee
survey. We collected turnover, and productivity metrics, head count metrics, and
information about how our employees saw the company, as well as how our
company was seen in the outside marketplace. I personally made a habit of
interviewing every new employee after their first two weeks with the company; I
was curious about how new employees would experience our culture, as
distinctive from others they’ve been a part of. It was interesting; they would
inevitably say to me, “But you work here. Don’t you know?” And I would tell
them that I’d already been there too long to see the culture with fresh eyes.
From their description of what the culture felt like when they described it,
and what they observed, I found out just how much we were able to make a
substantive and notable shift in how it felt to be an employee in the organization.
Word got out about the wonderful culture at this company, even within the family
of companies we belonged to, and we had no trouble attracting the kind of
employees we wanted. Not only that, the company was written up in a major,
prestigious business magazine for the work we did to build a culture that
supported the business vision. Best, the company went from a net profit of $40
million to $500 million in only six years, with only 1,000 employees. Today, six
years later, they are a global company with sales of way over $3 billion.
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Culture change is a continuous improvement process. Staying persistent
with this culture change process, over the long run, is critical. Going to the next
initiative while dropping the continuous focus on how the new initiative is
handled in the new culture will undermine the change process. After all, most
employees are skeptical about culture change, and are waiting for the signals to
say that the management really doesn’t mean it, and we’re going back to the way
it’s always been. Resistance is a normal reaction to change; it’s a sign that ones
world is being affected, and it’s an opportunity to discuss the issue and engage the
other person in becoming enrolled in a way that includes them, their priorities,
and their values.
Working with the objections and the questions is a necessary part of the
culture change process. If you choose to engage consultants, run formal
gatherings, train employees and managers, and do other such activities, you need
to know that there’s going to be a cost for all of this in time, money, and other
resources. Be prepared for that, and also be sure to attend to the leaders who
influence how the old culture gets reinforced, and how the new one gets
reinforced.
Listening as a leader is key, but it’s not easy for leaders who came up and
were reinforced by an old culture, who might have been usually rewarded for
knowing, telling and directing to do this without explaining, defending and fixing.
Crises are the best way to reinforce that the leaders really are committed to the
new culture. In the face of some kind of crisis or stress, hanging in to reinforce
the new cultural values can go a long way to demonstrating that leaders really
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mean it. Now, at our company, we happen to have had a quality crisis. The
employees, of course, were watching us carefully, expected the leaders to go back
to the old, familiar way of working. But you know something? In our case, it
didn’t happen.
We were very intentional with our communication. We communicated
our commitment to the new ways of working. Keeping the communication open,
intentional and authentic is very important here, doing this formally and
informally. We, at our organization, had a great tool for stopping the action in a
meeting when employees noticed that the old culture was being practiced. We
introduced marbles that would symbolize the new culture, and a bowl of marbles
—colored marbles—sat in every conference room in the company, and when a
budget meeting was underway, or any kind of regular business, any employee at
the table could take a marble, which would then signal to the leader of the
meeting to acknowledge the one who took it. He or she would ask the employee
for what they noticed that was going on, “Why did you take the marble?” And
the employee might say, “Well, I noticed that Joan has been trying to be heard,
and we keep talking right over her.” The issue could be dealt with on the spot,
and Joan would feel supported, as well. Or later, it could be brought up and dealt
with, but nevertheless, the marble symbolized “I’m stepping out into an
uncomfortable place, to take a risk, to act in support of the new culture.”
Just be prepared as a leader to make sure you’re recognizing the new
behaviors. One idea might be to install a peer recognition system around the new
desired behaviors. Just as scaffolding is taken down when a building is finished,
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the infrastructure of affinity groups, or other temporary systems or structures that
support change, must eventually be considered and potentially dismantled, in
favor of truly institutionalizing the new structure.
Often, during culture change, there is the new culture, and also the way it
already and always really works. These represent parallel tracks; these parallel
tracks must merge into everyday behavior, in order for the change process to be
complete. Recognizing that they are working together, you need to attend, as a
leader, to making that merge happen, and institutionalizing change whenever you
can.
As a leader, this takes operating consciously and strategically from a
learner mindset. It also involves taking a stand to create an enquiring culture, one
where questions are part of the fabric of how work gets done. Building inquiry
into the collective mindset of the organization is an essential way of extending
leadership throughout the culture. Mobilize for strategic action in a way that
involves all employees; this way, they can see themselves benefiting from
committed to action, and committed to action that supports the vision, the mission
and the strategy. They must be able, therefore, to see themselves in the vision,
and feel important to the strategy, and they must see their every day behavior as
connected in some way to bringing about the desired future. In this way, the
organization has a built in capability for continuous adaptation, flexibility and
change.
Tracey, do you have any questions?
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Matisak: Well, as a matter of fact, I do, Andrea, because it certainly is more than a notion
to change a corporate culture, and I’m wondering, since your company did it so
successfully, what do you think was the single most important ingredient in
winning the employees trust and confidence, as you stepped out on that new
venture?
Zintz: I think the employees, at first, were very mistrustful, that what we were saying
could be backed up by behavior. It seemed to them fantastic and rather
unbelievable, almost as if they’re speaking fairy tale. So, the important single
most critical element was the leader’s behavior; it was behavior, not what we said.
So they would watch us very carefully. When we went to a sales meeting, we
would coordinate beforehand how we need to behave at that sales meeting. We
made rules for ourselves, like you can’t group in groups of leaders; watch the kind
of stories you tell, and the kind of jokes you tell; make sure you’re intentionally
inclusive of other employees; hang out and spread yourselves around; ask
questions, “What’s up? What have you noticed that’s different?” And be willing
to engage in dialogue. It was the leadership behavior that really, on a consistent
basis, tipped off the employees that something was really different around here.
Matisak: It really shows that actions do, in fact, speak louder than words.
Zintz: Yes.
Matisak: So, so important. Talk to about how long it takes to do a process like that,
because it is quite a process, as you mentioned in your presentation, to change that
culture. This is something that I would think management would have to be in for
the long haul.
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Zintz: Thank you for raising that. One of the things that, in our company, we had going
for on our side was size. We were new; it signaled that we’re joining something,
we’ve got a different marketplace. People were primed in a start-up mindset.
Because we were rather small, even though we were rapidly growing, and because
we were kind of an entrepreneurial phase of our business, it was easier for us than
it would be for a larger organization. I would say that it took us about two to
three years to truly change our culture from that of the parent company. So, even
with a small and nimble organization, three years is an evolution.
Matisak: So really it is a long-term process.
Zintz: It is, and the larger the company, the more complex, the more the leaders are
embedded in the way it had always been, especially if it had been very successful,
the more difficult it is to change culture. It means coordinated and systematic
leadership action, it means a very, very clear and ongoing communication plan,
and it means staying persistent, probably over five years, in a large company.
Matisak: How did you, as managers, resist the temptation to go back to the old way, and
persist in the new values that came with the new culture?
Zintz: We would up talking a lot with one another as leaders. It always was a topic at
our board meetings—now, we had two kinds of board meetings; we had strategic
board meetings, and operational board meetings. At the operational board
meetings, we had less conversation about culture, but whenever we had our
quarterly strategy meeting, we also talked about how is it going, how is the crises
du jour impacting our ability to hang in there and operate this new way, what are
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the signals in the metrics telling us about how we’re doing against our goal of
having employees truly see the new way of operating.
So we were always looking at metrics, making time at our board meetings
to hear from the affinity groups, and making sure that we were staying on top of
our culture change.
Matisak: A manager may be listening to you right now, and saying, it sounds like a
wonderful idea, but what about productivity? We’ve got to invest a lot of time in
changing the mindset. We’ve got to spend time with employees in teaching them
what this new vision is all about. How do you balance that with productivity
issues, while you’re on a long-term, three-to-five year process perhaps?
Zintz: Well, here’s the good news: When you’re paying attention to it, the good news is
that you will, in fact, get a surge of productivity. Why? Because as you inspire
employees to see hopefulness, and see themselves in this new culture, they will
work harder, and put more in, in hopes that they’ll be able to contribute something
to bringing it about. This means that it’s not up to the leaders to make the change,
although they are—it’s important for them to sponsor and champion the change,
and watch it in their own deeds and actions, and the kinds of questions they ask;
you want to involve and engage the employees, and hook them in making a
behavioral shift. This will get a tremendous amount of productivity and
momentum.
Here’s the scary part: If you, as a leader, don’t persist in keeping this in
front of the employees, they will think, with the first bump in the road, the first
crisis, you didn’t really mean it, and in fact, they may feel a sense of betrayal, and
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you may get a productivity decline, if employees suddenly get turned off and say,
“It would be one thing if they’d just continued the way it had always been, but
they promised that this would be different, and then all of a sudden, they let the
first crisis go back to the old way. I knew this would happen.” But you get that
betrayal feeling.
Matisak: It really points out the critical importance of investing in people. People respond
to that, when they feel as though there’s being an investment made, in not only
the company, but in them as employees. That works wonders, does it not?
Zintz: It certainly does, and that’s where you get this tremendous involvement, working
for you. People—I’ll tell you, people join these affinity groups, right and left.
But in joining the affinity group, it did take some time away from the every day
work, and that’s when you have these parallel tracks. The key here is not to allow
yourself to fall into saying, well, you’re doing the work of the culture, and you’re
getting your job done. And that’s where you have to be careful that the parallel
tracks stay parallel, and they don’t overtake one another, and that eventually you
can hang with it long enough for the changes to truly become institutionalized,
truly become ingrained, so that I’m not having to think consciously if I’m doing
the new culture; it’s a natural, authentic way to work.
Matisak: So much of that is really getting people’s buy-in, getting people to feel a sense of
ownership about what’s happening, and you talked about mission statements, and
just the time that it takes to get everyone’s buy-in, to make each and every person
feel as if their voice counts in that process.
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Zintz: That’s where the learning mindset—the learner mindset—really comes into play.
If it’s my way is the right way, and we’re arguing and debating over who’s way is
right, then we’re really not engaging each other’s learner mindset, and we don’t
have the openness, acceptance, and flexibility to truly make use of everyone’s
contributions. So, by teaching some basic skills, in seeking and telling across
differences, in being able to give and receive feedback in a way that honors and
respects different points of view, and different operating styles, this really lays the
groundwork and the foundation for everyone to feel that they can contribute, and
everyone to see that they might have a place in the new culture.
Matisak: In your company, when you were talking particularly about giving people the
freedom to speak the truth; that’s something that many employees initially would
say, oh, sure, this is a way to trap us, this is—they want us to give them some
information that is going to be used against us. That’s a mighty step to take, to try
to get people on board with an idea like that.
Zintz: It was really risky to do it, and I have to tell you as a leader, I wanted so badly to
explain, defend, fix, and it was hell not to do it. I think the hardest thing for me,
in that process, was not to go ahead and say, oh, you got it all wrong. I was there,
I know you’re not speaking quite right about it, or let me explain. We had to stop,
because by allowing even truths that were only perceptions to live, it hooked
everyone around listening to that, to it’s okay, even if you’re not right to be heard,
to be considered.
Matisak: Did you have to put parameters around that, because sometimes, when you
encourage people to speak out, speaking truth could become a gripe fest, and
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certainly, there is plenty of that in some offices. So how do you put parameters
around that to keep people focused?
Zintz: Great. We wound up, the next day, giving people a place to turn that gripe energy
into productive energy. So that was when we put people in groups, according to
their particular passion, so that they could say, “Well, what are the real issues
here? And what are the solutions we would suggest the company consider?” In
this way, we gave a foundation for the griping to be turned into suggestions for
action, and by coming forth, after the event, from groups, to give us specific ideas
at our board meetings, we could turn that into how do we then make a policy
change, create a training program, have a listening for a disenfranchised group,
that would give people a chance to say, okay, now we can institutionalize this in
ways that bring it toward action that supports business goals.
Matisak: And it had to be very important to implement some of that information, if you
want people to feel as though their voices really are being heard, as if they’re
being counted in the mix, you’ve got to do something with the information you’re
given, once you solicit it.
Zintz: That’s true, and that’s where the communications plan kicks in big. You want to
communicate your changes, celebrate the people that contribute to the changes.
You want to celebrate milestones, you want to kick off a peer recognition system,
so that I can say thank you in some visible and tangible way, when you have
worked with me in a way that represents the new culture.
Matisak: It also gives people in certain managerial roles an opportunity, I would think, to
become a strategic business partner, to step out of there traditional role, perhaps
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as an HR person, something else, and really become a strategic business partner;
almost take on a new role in changing a culture.
Zintz: It’s a real turn-on, and that’s what gives a rise to the momentum that you can get
in productivity, is that feeling that, oh my God, there’s an opening for me to be a
strategic partner in support of that vision. Let me also say that there is a little bit
of a risk here. You might have leaders who thrived in the old culture, in the status
quo, who really don’t see themselves in the new culture. They’re turned on.
Well, there’s a price to pay, obviously; the question that leaders have to ask, the
ones that you know for years came up in the old culture: Am I willing to risk
losing this person? And that is one of the tough decisions that one has to make
when you move to a new culture. There are people who will no longer be as
powerful, who can’t make the change, who may be sort of left behind, and
potentially will leave. And maybe, if it’s truly that your culture has to support the
new strategy and goals, it’s a good thing.
Matisak: And inevitably, that’s just a part of the process, that there is going to be some of
that in the midst of change. But I think that you can’t argue with success, and you
made the point with regard to your company, how successful, ultimately, that
culture change was. Just talk again about the improvements to the bottom line,
first of all, and very quickly, in our last few minutes, what the payoff was, for the
time that was invested in that culture change.
Zintz: Well, the obvious ones were the ones that you could develop metrics around—the
lower turnover, the rise in employee productivity, our employee survey
demonstrating that it was more a climate for innovation, engendered more
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employee satisfaction, higher morale. And of course, the number showed not
only high productivity but also moving from sales of $40 million to $500 million
in just six years.
Matisak: And so often the bottom line is the bottom line and you can’t argue with that kind
of success. Powerful evidence. For sure. Well, I’m afraid that we have run out
of time, and we just want to ask you very quickly if you have a closing thought
before we end for today.
Zintz: Well, I guess the closing though would be that it’s so important to remember that
questions are powerful, and if you can come from a place of inquiry, in the midst
of culture change, you’re going to invite the kinds of contributions that will help
accelerate your progress, in your culture change process.
Matisak: Well, Andrea, we want to thank you for sharing your insights with us, and we
want to hear from you, too; make sure that you complete that evaluation form at
the end of your handouts, and let us know your thoughts about today’s program.
On behalf of Andrea Zintz and the Federal Training Network, thanks to all of you
for watching and participating in today’s program. I’m Tracey Matisak. Have a
great day.
[MUSICAL OUTRO] [END RECORDING]
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