Aes Yrocraec4ify.1 MEET THE PRESS as broadcast nationwide by the National Broadcasting Com- pany, Inc., are printed and made available to the public to further interest in impartial discussions of questions affect- ing the public welfare. Transcripts may be obtained by send- ing a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ten cents for each copy to: g - he .../WcHotta,/ Agaadmiang roinliang gx-edenes MEET THE PRESS Siinewica'a g i xeda ro7Oxenve ce ° de Shit Ls®u dfmo. Mav Ygaiditme, 9 W ,temis gg ■ oc&ced iy LAWRENCE E. SPIVAK MEET THE PRESS is telecast every Sunday over the NBC Television Net- work. This program originated from the NBC Studios in Washington, D. C. EDWARD HEATH Leader of the Conservative Party of Great Britain VOLUME 10 JUNE 5, 1966 NUMBER 23 Television Broadcast 1:00 P.M. EDT Radio Broadcast 6:30 P.M. EDT gal4 Jfea nw and Yenilodicai Pail .44/on gaiiars < 6. Ac, gaa .21//, Yf Ain g &n, 9 C‘f 20.04, 10 cents per copy
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Aes Yrocraec4ify.1
ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS
as b
road
cast natio
nw
ide b
y th
e Natio
nal B
road
casting C
om
-pan
y, In
c., are prin
ted an
d m
ade av
ailable to
the p
ublic to
fu
rther in
terest in im
partial d
iscussio
ns o
f questio
ns affect-
ing th
e public w
elfare. Tran
scripts m
ay b
e obtain
ed b
y sen
d-
ing a stamped, self-addressed envelope and ten cents for each
copy to:
g-he .../W
cHotta
,/ Agaadm
iang ro
inlia
ng g
x-eden
es
ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS
Siin
ewica
'a gixed
a ro
7O
xenve ce°
de S
hit
Ls®u dfm
o. Mav
Ygaiditme, 9
W ,tem
is
gg
■oc&ced i
y
LA
WR
EN
CE
E. S
PIV
AK
ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS is teleca
st every Sunday o
ver the N
BC
Televisio
n N
et-w
ork. T
his p
rogra
m o
rigin
ated
from
the N
BC
Studios in Washington, D
. C.
ED
WA
RD
HE
AT
H
Lead
er of th
e Conserv
ative P
arty o
f Great B
ritain
VO
LUM
E 10 JU
NE 5, 1966
NUMBER
23
Television
Broad
cast 1:00 P.M
. ED
T
Rad
io Broad
cast 6:30 P.M
. ED
T
gal4 Jfea nw
and Yenilodicai P
ail
.44/o
n
gaiia
rs <6. A
c,
gaa .2
1//, Y
fA
ing&n, 9 C
‘f 20.04, 10 cen
ts per co
py
flans(• H
EN
RY
BR
AN
DO
N, L
ondon Sunday Tim
es M
AX
FR
AN
KE
L, T
he N
ew Y
ork T
imes
ED
WIN
NE
WM
AN
, NB
C N
ews
LA
WR
EN
CE
E. S
PIV
AK
, Perm
anent Panel M
ember
ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS
Mo
dera
tor:
BR
YS
ON
RA
SH
, NB
C N
ews
Perm
ission is hereby granted to news m
edia and m
agazines to reproduce in whole o
r in part. C
redit to N
BC
's ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS will be appreciated.
MR
. RA
SH
: Our g
uest to
day
on M
EE
T T
HE
PR
ES
S is E
d-
ward
Heath
—on h
is first visit to
this co
untry
since h
e becam
e lead
er of G
reat Britain
's Conserv
ative P
arty. H
e has b
een co
n-
ferring with top A
merican officials, including P
resident Johnson. W
e will h
ave th
e first questio
ns n
ow
from
Mr. L
awren
ce E.
Spivak, the perm
anent mem
ber of the ME
ET
TH
E P
RE
SS
Panel.
MR
. SPIV
AK
: Mr. H
eath, after the defeat of the Conservative
Party in
the last election
, you are q
uoted
as saying, "
Th
e Tory
Party is ch
angin
g and
will con
tinu
e to chan
ge."
Has th
ere been
any b
ig chan
ge yet? M
R. H
EA
TH
: Yes, I th
ink
there h
ave b
een co
nsid
erable d
e-velopm
ents. As far as policy is concerned, w
e have already de-velo
ped
policy
a great d
eal since th
e election d
efeat of 1
964.
In the House of C
omm
ons, I have reorganized the shadow C
ab-net an
d m
ade it m
uch
smaller. W
e had
70 m
embers alto
geth
er o
n o
ur fro
nt b
ench
. I hav
e no
w b
rou
gh
t them
do
wn
to 2
3, an
d
we are n
ow
starting to
reorg
anize th
e pan
el of can
did
ates for
the fu
ture an
d also th
e constitu
ency
org
anizatio
n, th
at is, the
votin
g areas fo
r our m
embers.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: In
terms of p
olicy, wh
at do you
consid
er the
most sign
ificant ch
ange th
at has tak
en p
lace in th
e Tory P
arty? M
R. H
EA
TH
: In q
uestio
ns o
f policy
, we h
ave really
set out
five major points:
The first is o
n th
e econom
y, to
emphasize m
uch
more h
igh
wage-low
cost economy in w
hich we do aw
ay with restrictions
in trad
e unio
ns;
Secondly, w
ays of dealing with w
ildcat strikes;
1
Third
ly, th
e social serv
ices, that as w
e beco
me m
ore afflu
ent,
people should contribute more them
selves; F
ou
rthly
, a great h
ou
sing
pro
gram
and
; F
ifthly
, the clear declaration that w
e want to becom
e a mem
-ber of the E
uropean economic com
munity, the C
omm
on Market.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: M
r. Heath
, Gen
eral de G
aulle seem
s to believe
that E
urop
e is too dep
end
ent u
pon
the U
nited
States. D
o you
thin
k E
nglan
d is too?
OmM
R. H
EA
TH
: We h
ave criticized
the p
resent B
ritish G
ov
ern-
ent fo
r beco
min
g to
o d
epen
den
t on th
e United
States.
I want
to m
ake th
is abso
lutely
plain
. Th
is is no
t in an
y w
ay an
ti-A
merican
. For u
s to say
in B
ritain th
at we th
ink th
at Britain
o
ug
ht to
stand
as mu
ch as p
ossib
le on
its ow
n feet in
side th
e W
estern Alliance is really som
ething which I believe is not only
health
y fo
r Britain
, bu
t also, h
ealthy
for th
e Un
ited S
tates, w
ho are o
ur b
est friends.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: Y
ou th
ink
then
Great B
ritain tod
ay is too de-
pen
den
t on A
merica. W
ould
you tell u
s in w
hat w
ay?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I th
ink
, for examp
le, the last few
mon
ths,
in w
hich
we h
ave becom
e more d
epen
den
t on th
e Un
ited S
tates for aircraft su
pp
ly and
prod
uction
, is one p
articular exam
ple.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: W
ould
you say th
at Harold
Wilson
's Govern
-m
ent is a
ny m
ore d
epen
den
t up
on
Am
erica th
an
Win
ston
C
hu
rchill's or H
arold M
acmillan
's or Alec D
ouglas-H
ome's?
MR
. HE
AT
H: W
e hav
e a traditio
n th
at wh
en w
e are abro
ad
we d
on
't criticize our g
overn
men
t as such
. I hav
e stated w
hat
we said
durin
g th
e election, b
ut I th
ink as a m
atter of fact, y
es, th
at is the case.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: I am
not ask
ing for criticism
, just th
e facts.
MR
. HE
AT
H: Y
es, that is a fact.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: T
here h
as been
criticism in
Great B
ritain of
our p
olicy in V
ietnam
. Wou
ld you
say that th
e British
Govern
-m
ent agrees w
ith ou
r policy tod
ay?
MR
. HE
AT
H: M
y understan
din
g o
f the B
ritish G
overn
men
t is th
at they
fully
sup
po
rt Am
erican p
olicy
in V
ietnam
. Th
ere has b
een so
me criticism
in th
eir left wing.
As fa
r as w
e are
concerned in the Conservative P
arty, we also have given general
sup
port to th
e Am
erican p
olicy.
MR
. SPIV
AK
: Will you give us your ow
n opinion of our policy in
Vietn
am?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
hat is a very w
ide q
uestion
, ind
eed, isn
't it?
MR
. SPIV
AK
: Do you yourself support our policy?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
o as lead
er of th
e Co
nserv
ative P
arty. I
said w
e giv
e gen
eral support to
the A
merican
adm
inistratio
n,
therefo
re, their p
olicy
in V
ietnam
.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: N
ot long ago you
advocated
a meetin
g be-
tween G
eneral de Gaulle and P
resident Johnson. Now
, you have talk
ed to b
oth of th
em. D
o you still th
ink
that it w
ould
be u
se-ful and desirable?
MR
. HE
AT
H: Y
es, I do, but, of course, on
e has got to ch
oose th
e right m
omen
t for it. I fully u
nd
erstand
the p
reoccup
ations
of the P
residen
t. I w
as asked
at a press con
ference d
urin
g the
election w
heth
er I thou
ght th
is wou
ld b
e a good th
ing, an
d I
always th
ink
that m
eetings b
etween
the h
eads of states is a
good th
ing, p
rovidin
g you d
o it at the righ
t time.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: D
o you th
ink
that th
e integrated
NA
TO
w
hich General deG
attlle now opposes is a hindrance, or w
ould it h
elp tow
ards th
e un
ity of Eu
rope?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I th
ink
that th
e integration
of NA
TO
is neces-
sary in ord
er to deal w
ith th
e cond
itions of m
odern
warfare.
You
can, of cou
rse, have a d
ebate ab
out th
is, bu
t I thin
k on
e h
as to be carefu
l not to over-exaggerate th
e degree of in
tegra-tion
wh
ich exists in
NA
TO
. I don
't kn
ow ab
out h
ere in th
e U
nited
States, b
ut certain
ly in B
ritain som
e peop
le imagin
e it is integrated dow
n to almost the low
est form of com
mand. T
his, of course, is not the case. It is integrated at the highest echelons, an
d, as far as h
elpin
g the u
nity of E
urop
e is concern
ed, I d
on't
think it is necessarily connected with econom
ic developments.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: W
ould
you m
ore defin
e wh
at you m
ean b
y in
tegration of th
e high
er and
lower level?"
MR
. HE
AT
H: I am
thin
kin
g o
f integration in th
at you h
ave
a comm
ander of one country with very high level com
manders
ti d
irectly u
nd
er him
, bu
t it do
esn't g
o d
ow
n to
regim
ental lev
el, brigade level, even divisional level.
MR
. 'FR
AN
KE
L: M
r. Heath
, there is an
imp
ression h
ere th
at Presid
ent d
e Gau
lle's basic am
bition
is simp
ly to drive th
e U
nited
States ou
t of Eu
rope. D
o you th
ink
that is a correct
impression?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't th
ink th
at is a correct im
pressio
n, n
o,
bu
t certainly
as far as we are co
ncern
ed in
Britain
, it isn't th
e case.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: C
ould you tell us what you think he is up to?
MR
. HE
AT
H: P
resident de Gaulle?
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: Y
es, sir.
MR
. HE
AT
H: W
ell, I thin
k th
at he h
as first of all in mind the
S 2
status o
f the F
rench
forces. I th
ink h
e is greatly
concern
ed
about th
at, and I th
ink h
is philo
sophy is th
at a natio
n's fo
rces don't really
respond to
the n
ation's n
eeds u
nless th
ey feel th
ey
are respo
nsib
le for th
e state of th
e natio
n an
d its d
efense. I
thin
k th
at is his first o
bjectiv
e.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: T
hou
gh th
ere are some d
ifferences b
etween
B
ritain an
d F
rance clearly on
NA
TO
qu
estions, you
both
are seek
ing a k
ind
of ind
epen
den
ce from th
e Un
ited S
tates in h
aving
your ow
n n
uclear forces. D
o you th
ink
it is wron
g of the U
nited
S
tates to look in
the lon
g-range to d
riving all of th
e Eu
ropean
cou
ntries ou
t of the n
uclear b
usin
ess?
MR
. HE
AT
H: M
y belief is th
at we w
ere righ
t at Nassau
, the
arrang
emen
t wh
ich M
r. Macm
illan n
ego
tiated w
ith P
residen
t K
enned
y, th
at we w
ould
contrib
ute o
ur n
uclear fo
rces to th
e g
eneral N
AT
O d
efense. W
e wo
uld
on
ly k
eep th
em in
case of
dire n
ation
al peril, an
d I th
ink
that is ju
stifiable. A
nd
I per-
fectly u
nd
erstand
if Gen
eral de G
aulle w
ants to
do
that w
ith th
e F
rench
force.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: W
hy d
o you n
eed an
y nu
clear weap
ons?
Why do you or F
rance or the Germ
ans conceivably need nuclear w
eapon
s; is it that you
do n
ot trust A
merican
sup
port in
case of em
ergency?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I th
ink
we h
ave all h
ad ex
perien
ce in tim
es of
war—
you find yourself in emergencies w
hich may not have been
foreseen
, and ev
ery n
ation h
as really g
ot th
e right to
take n
eces-sary
measu
res to d
eal with
that so
rt of em
ergen
cy. O
f course
I alway
s loo
k at it in
a rather w
ider sen
se wh
ich is th
at we h
ave
got th
e Atlan
tic Allian
ce and th
at in it w
e ought to
hav
e two
majo
r partn
ers, the U
nited
States an
d a u
nited
Euro
pe. I b
e-lieve that this w
ould be a healthy balance between the tw
o sides o
f the A
tlantic.
If yo
u are g
oin
g to
do
that th
en y
ou
wo
uld
hav
e som
e dev
el-o
pm
ent in
nu
clear weap
ons in
a united
Eu
rope.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: W
hy d
oesn't E
urop
e spen
d m
ore time an
d
energy on
creating th
is un
ion an
d th
en w
orry abou
t giving it
the n
uclear stren
gth of w
hich
you sp
eak? W
hy sh
ould
Fran
ce an
d B
ritain an
d con
ceivably G
erman
y head
off in th
eir own
directions w
ith nuclear programs?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
here are tw
o an
swers to
that. F
irst of all,
Euro
pe h
as spen
t a tremen
dous am
ount o
f time an
d en
ergy in
try
ing
to b
ecom
e un
ited. I sp
ent so
me tw
o y
ears my
self in try
-in
g to
neg
otiate B
ritain in
to th
e Co
mm
on
Mark
et in o
rder th
at w
e should
hav
e a wid
er Euro
pean
unity
. And seco
ndly
, as far as B
ritain is co
ncern
ed, o
f course, th
e nuclear alread
y ex
ists. T
herefo
re it is no
t a qu
estion
of first o
f all gettin
g a E
uro
pean
unity
and th
en m
ovin
g to
the n
uclear.
As far as w
e are con
cerned
, we w
ere on
e of th
e orig
inal p
ar-ticipants.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: You
said in
answ
er to a qu
estion of M
r. Spivak's that as leader of the C
onservative Party you gave general
sup
port to th
e Un
ited S
tates adm
inistration
and
therefore to
the Am
erican position in Vietnam
, which seem
ed to me a rather
lukewarm
and rather grudging support. Is th
at the im
pression
you in
tend
ed to leave?
MR
. HE
AT
H: N
ot in th
e least, no. W
hen
I say "gen
eral sup
-p
ort," w
hat I am
saying is th
at there m
ay be p
articular tactical
matters on
wh
ich th
ere can w
ell be ju
stifiable d
ebate b
etween
m
ilitary experts in
both
coun
tries. Th
at is wh
at I had
in m
ind
, but as far as—
when I say general and broad support, that m
eans on
the p
olicies as a wh
ole. ii
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: You
are not d
isqu
ieted b
y the p
osition in
w
hich
the U
nited
States fin
ds itself in
Vietn
am?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
his is a h
orrible w
ar, everybod
y recognizes
that an
d, I th
ink
, nob
ody m
ore than
the p
eople of th
e Un
ited
States an
d th
e mem
bers of th
e Ad
min
istration; an
d th
e prob
-lem
s—I think this is the m
ost difficult problem w
hich any country has had to handle or any governm
ent has had to handle since the en
d of W
orld W
ar II in 1945. O
f course w
ith a p
roblem
of that
scale and
difficu
lty, you w
ill have som
e differen
ces of opin
ion
abou
t the w
ay it is han
dled
. Bu
t that d
oesn't in
any w
ay alter the general approach.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Are you
aware of an
y disru
ptive effect on
the A
tlantic Alliance by the V
ietnam w
ar, by the Am
erican part in
it? M
R. H
EA
TH
: I don't th
ink so
ci---io.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: M
r. Heath
, one of you
r leadin
g pap
ers, the
Man
chester G
uard
ian, in
a front p
age story the oth
er day said
, and I quote "If uninhibited, the P
rime M
inister would probably
say that Am
erican policy on Vietnam
has been wrong on alm
ost every count."
Is that a
fair sta
temen
t, or is th
at ju
st the M
an
chester
Guardian's—
M
R. H
EA
TH
: Yo
u are ask
ing
me tw
o th
ing
s there, first o
f all, ex
actly w
hat is th
e Prim
e Min
ister's priv
ate view
, which
I d
on
't kn
ow
, and
secon
dly
, is the M
anch
ester Gu
ardian
righ
t in
describ
ing it in
this w
ay an
d say
ing th
at that is a g
eneral ap
-proach.
It certainly
do
esn't ap
ply
as far as we in
the C
on
servativ
e P
arty are co
ncern
ed, an
d I d
on't th
ink it ap
plies to
the g
reat m
ajority
of th
e peo
ple in
Britain
.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: T
here h
ave been
press rep
orts in th
is coun
try,
4 6
too, that a m
ajority of both
Lab
or and
Con
servative mem
bers
of Parliam
ent h
ave basic m
isgivings ab
out A
merican
policy.
MR
. HE
AT
H: N
o, I do
n't accep
t that.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: Y
ou d
on't accep
t that at all?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't even
accept it for th
e Lab
or Party. I
don
't thin
k th
ere is a majority of th
e Lab
or Party w
hich
has
got misgivin
gs.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: A
fter your retu
rn from
a trip to S
outh
Asia
and
Sou
theast A
sia you favored
takin
g every possib
le step to
secure a n
egotiated settlem
ent, an
d th
is shou
ld b
e the basis,
you said
, of British
policy.
Is there an
ythin
g you th
ink
that G
reat Britain
can d
o to h
elp b
ring ab
out a n
egotiated settlem
ent n
ow?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't b
elieve that a n
egotiated settlem
ent is
possib
le, wh
ether it is n
egotiated d
irectly by th
e adm
inistration
or w
ith h
elp from
outsid
e, throu
gh th
e Un
ited N
ations, w
hat-
ever mean
s may b
e adop
ted, u
ntil th
e Viet C
ong an
d th
e North
V
ietnam
ese realize that th
ey can n
ot win
. Th
en I th
ink
there
will b
e a situation
in w
hich
a negotiation
in som
e form or oth
er w
ill be p
ossible.
Wh
at we in
Britain
can d
o wh
en th
at mom
ent arises is to
work
with
the oth
er co-chairm
an, th
e Soviet U
nion
, in ord
er to bring about a conference in w
hich those concerned can take part to get th
e settlemen
t.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: Y
ou are sayin
g that at th
e presen
t time you
think that your governm
ent can do very little to bring the parties to th
e conferen
ce table?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I th
ink
that is so, yes.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: T
here have been indications lately that anti-A
merican
ism is arisin
g amon
g British
bu
sinessm
en an
d in
du
s-trialists, d
ue to th
e dom
inan
ce of Am
erican econ
omic p
ower.
Th
ey are qu
ite an in
fluen
tial segmen
t of the C
onservative P
arty. I w
as wondering how
it affects your Party and your ow
n policies? M
R. H
EA
TH
: I don
't believ
e there is an
y anti-A
mericanism
in
our P
arty, and
I wou
ldn
't have said
that th
ere was very m
uch
in
British
bu
siness. W
hat th
ey d
o rea
lize is that it is a
tre-m
endous task competing w
ith the industrial power of the U
nited S
tates. Th
e econom
y is so mu
ch larger th
an ou
rs, has very h
igh
qu
ality of man
agemen
t, it is an en
tirely free enterp
rise econom
y w
ith im
men
se drive. It h
as all the resou
rces of mod
ern tech
-n
ology. We h
aven't got th
at, and
that, of cou
rse, is one of th
e reasons w
hy I want to have a larger E
uropean market. T
hat will
then
giv
e us th
e base o
n w
hich
, giv
en a
bit o
f time, w
e can
develop our ow
n technology.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: B
ut how w
ould you develop the bigger coin-
6
petitive u
nits in
Eu
rope th
at could
comp
ete with
the U
nited
S
tates? M
R. H
EA
TH
: It is begin
nin
g to h
app
en in
the C
omm
on Mar-
ket itself, o
f course, th
at has a m
arket o
f a 160 o
r 175 m
illion
peo
ple. If w
e were in
it, and if o
ther co
untries o
f the E
uro
pean
F
ree Trad
e Asso
ciation w
ere in it o
r associated
with
it that w
ould
g
ive u
s a mark
et of aro
un
d ab
ou
t 25
0 m
illion
peo
ple. A
ssum
ing
you h
ave a m
arket o
f that size w
ithout an
y tariff b
arriers in it
—fo
r exam
ple, h
ere there are n
o tariff b
arriers with
in th
e states, but ju
st one larg
e mark
et—th
en y
ou w
ill find in
dustry
itself fo
rced b
y th
e pressu
re of ev
ents to
move to
ward
s larger u
nits.
Once th
ey g
et the larg
er units th
ey g
et the larg
er resources fo
r research
and d
evelo
pm
ent, an
d th
en, th
ey can
get to
work
on th
e n
ew tech
no
log
y.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: Y
ou are n
ot thin
kin
g of comm
on p
rojects like the C
oncord?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
he comm
on projects help, but you see a co
m-
mo
n p
roject p
rod
uces a p
articular p
rob
lem o
f decisio
n-m
akin
g.
Yo
u h
ave tw
o sep
arate firms, an
d at each
level th
ey h
ave to
co-
op
erate in o
rder to
mak
e decisio
ns, an
d if th
ere is a difference o
f view
, it com
es finally
to th
e bo
ard o
f the tw
o co
mp
anies an
d
then
finally
beco
mes a p
olitical o
ne b
etween
the tw
o g
overn
-m
ents.
Th
is at least mean
s usin
g u
p p
reciou
s time. If y
ou
are really
goin
g to
hav
e effective d
ecision-m
akin
g w
ith th
e latest technol-
og
y, I th
ink
yo
u h
ave to
do
it really th
rou
gh
a un
ity, an
d th
at o
nly
com
es abo
ut w
hen
yo
u h
ave a u
nified
mark
et.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: W
e hear m
uch
here th
ese days th
at Eu
rope
is becom
ing isolation
ist, that sh
e is not as con
cerned
as the
Un
ited S
tates with
the w
orldw
ide com
mitm
ents in
the F
ar East
and
other p
arts of the w
orld. B
ritain of cou
rse has b
een an
ex-cep
tion to th
at. Is Britain
, in m
oving closer to E
urop
e, also be-
comin
g more isolation
ist in th
is sense?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't b
elieve th
at Euro
pe is iso
lationist, an
d
I do
n't b
elieve th
at Britain
in its b
road
ou
tloo
k is iso
lation
ist. I m
ay so
metim
es at ho
me criticize m
y o
wn
go
vern
men
t by
say-
ing
they
are takin
g step
s wh
ich I th
ink
reflect an in
sular ap
-pro
ach, b
ut I d
on't th
ink as a co
untry
we are iso
lationist in
that
sense.
I just sa
y th
is, that th
e E
uro
pean p
ow
ers h
ave h
ad to
go
throu
gh a p
eriod of very great con
traction of w
orld resp
onsi-
bilities b
ecause of th
e develop
men
t of ind
epen
den
ce of so man
y countries.
This h
as been
a long an
d h
ard an
d p
ainfu
l road for
everybod
y to follow, an
d I th
ink
it is qu
ite natu
ral that so
me
of th
em sh
ould
hav
e a period of revival, of regaining strength in th
eir balan
ce and
so on. T
his is tru
e I thin
k of T
he N
etherlan
ds
and
the D
utch
Em
pire, certain
ly of the F
rench
and
the F
rench
7
T-4
Em
pire, th
e Belg
ians an
d th
e Belg
ian E
mpire an
d tru
e also o
f o
urselv
es to a co
nsid
erable ex
tent. B
ut if y
ou
hav
e com
e to tak
e th
e criteria of aid
in th
e rest of th
e wo
rld, fo
r exam
ple, w
ell the
Fren
ch are d
oin
g m
ore in
aid in
vario
us fo
rms th
an w
e are in
Britain
or y
ou
are in th
e Un
ited S
tates pro
po
rtion
ately.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: If it is n
ot to be isolation
ist, wh
at do you
th
ink
Eu
rope's in
terests in w
orld b
eyond
will b
e, prim
arily in
rapp
rochem
ent w
ith th
e Soviet U
nion
and
the C
omm
un
ist part
of Eu
rope or n
ew form
s of econom
ic interests in
the form
er colon
ial areas? Wh
at do you
thin
k w
ill be th
e prim
ary thru
st of E
urop
ean w
orld in
terest? M
R. H
EA
TH
: On
e of th
e ma
in th
rusts a
t the m
om
ent is
econom
ic, in th
e develop
ing cou
ntries, b
ut th
e prim
ary thru
st m
ust alw
ays be th
e main
tenan
ce of the freed
om an
d th
e ind
e-p
end
ence of E
urop
e itself. If this m
eans at th
e same tim
e that
we c
an w
ork
alo
ng w
ith th
e S
ovie
t Unio
n a
nd th
e E
aste
rn
Scia
list blo
c, so
much th
e b
ette
r, and I a
m su
re th
at n
obody
wan
ts it mo
re than
the A
merican
peo
ple as w
ell. We d
on
't wan
t to
contin
ue a state o
f cold
war so
long as w
e can reach
a settle-m
ent.
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: D
o you see an
ythin
g on th
e agend
a of con-
ceivable n
egotiations w
ith M
oscow to stab
ilize Eu
rope fin
ally? M
R. H
EA
TH
: I don
't on th
e imm
ediate agen
da, n
o. I must be
qu
ite frank
abou
t that. I th
ink
that w
hile th
e Vietn
amese w
ar is goin
g on, it is very d
ifficult to m
ake fu
rther p
rogress in th
at direction.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Mr. H
eath, you
said a few
min
utes ago th
at you
wou
ld lik
e to see Britain
stand
on h
er own
feet with
in th
e A
lliance. I lived
in En
gland
for eight years, an
d I u
sed to h
ear th
at from B
ritish p
oliticians, if I m
ay say so, at least three tim
es a w
eek, an
d I th
ink
it is still going on
. Wh
at do you
mean
by
that? T
he last tim
e Britain
stood on
her ow
n feet w
ithin
the
Allian
ce was S
uez, w
hich
did
n't w
ork ou
t very well, so w
hat d
o you
really have in
min
d?
MR
. HE
AT
H: A
s a matter of h
istorical accu
racy, w
e weren
't o
n o
ur o
wn
feet. It was a F
ranco
-British
action
. W
hat I m
ean is, as I h
ave ex
plain
ed, th
at we sh
ou
ld w
ork
in
a wid
er Euro
pean
contex
t to m
ake o
ur eco
nom
y m
ore efficien
t an
d m
ore effectiv
e. We sh
ou
ld try
and
dev
elop
ou
r ow
n tech
-nolo
gy an
d n
ot rely
solely
on th
e United
States fo
r the su
pply
o
f techn
olo
gical in
form
ation
as a result o
f all the o
rigin
al wo
rk
do
ne o
ver h
ere. N
ow
, of c
ou
rse, th
is affe
cts so
man
y d
iffere
nt sp
here
s. It affects th
e norm
al industrial sp
here. It also
affects space. W
e h
ave b
een tak
ing
part in
EL
DO
, wh
ich w
e created—
the E
uro
- p
ean L
aun
cher O
rgan
ization
and E
SR
O, w
hic
h is th
e sp
ace
research o
rgan
ization
.
I hear n
ow
that th
e British
Go
vern
men
t is to w
ithd
raw fro
m
the E
uro
pean
Lau
nch
er Org
anizatio
n. T
his to
me an
d to
my
colleag
ues w
ho created
it is a matter fo
r regret, an
d, o
f course,
there
is mu
ch
fallo
ut in
diffe
ren
t sph
ere
s in sp
ace a
s well,
all sorts o
f dev
elopm
ent o
f electronics, m
iniatu
rization, m
edicin
e. If w
e rely so
lely o
n th
e United
States, w
e hav
e no p
art in it o
ur-
selves, w
e hav
e no
incen
tive fo
r the p
eop
le we train
in th
e sci-en
ces and th
e technolo
gy to
stay an
d w
ork
with
us.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Are you not given considerable difficulty by
the fact th
at you req
uire A
merican
sup
port of fin
ancial m
atters to protect the pound w
hich imposes restrictions on your policies
elsewhere, especially foreign policy?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
he state of th
e pou
nd
, if the p
oun
d h
as to be
sup
ported
that, of cou
rse, in an
y case is bou
nd
to imp
ose re-strictions on dom
estic policy. If th
e IFM
help
s any cou
ntry, th
en, of cou
rse, that is th
e case. M
R. S
PIV
AK
: Mr. H
eath, th
ere has b
een con
cern in
some
qu
arters that P
residen
t de G
aulle m
ay sign a n
on-aggression
p
act w
ith R
ussia
on
his co
min
g v
isit. Do
yo
u see th
at a
s a
possibility?
MR
. HE
AT
H: D
o you m
ean a n
on-aggression
p
act betw
een
Fran
ce and th
e Soviet?
It is, I sup
pose, a p
ossib
ility, y
es.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: W
hat effect d
o you th
ink
someth
ing of th
at kind w
ould have upon the NA
TO
military organization?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't th
ink it w
ill hav
e any effect o
n th
e 14. M
R. SP
IVA
K: Y
ou don't think it would really lead to N
AT
O's
complete disintegration?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't th
ink
so, no.
MR
. SP
IVA
K: W
ith F
rance com
pletely ou
t? M
R. H
EA
TH
: I don't think so, no. M
R. B
RA
ND
ON
: Do you
thin
k th
at Gen
eral de G
aulle's con
-cep
t of Eu
rope from
the A
tlantic to th
e Urals is a realistic on
e? M
R. H
EA
TH
: It is a visio
n o
f Gen
eral de G
aulle's th
at Euro
pe
sho
uld
go
forw
ard ag
ain to
the so
rt of u
nity
it on
ce had
in w
hich
th
e barriers are b
rok
en d
ow
n. I d
on
't thin
k th
at in th
e imm
edi-
ate futu
re this is lik
ely to
com
e abo
ut.
MR
. BR
AN
DO
N: B
ut you
thin
k it m
ight com
e abou
t; you
as the forem
ost Eu
ropean
in E
nglan
d tod
ay, do you
thin
k th
at th
is is a possib
ility? M
R. H
EA
TH
: If one thinks in the v
ery lo
ng term
, it is possi-
ble to
conceiv
e that th
e Eastern
Socialist S
tates would
move
8
9
away
from
a state-contro
lled eco
nom
into
a more lib
eral econ-
om
y. T
here are sig
ns—
Polan
, 'n
g to
beco
me a m
ember
of th
e GA
TT
, or tak
e part in
the G
AT
T, o
r signs in
Rum
ania.
But th
is has co
me ab
out after n
early 2
0 y
ears, and it is still
a very
grad
ual d
evelo
pm
ent. O
ne h
as to lo
ok q
uite a lo
ng w
ay
in th
e futu
re befo
re you can
see a unity
of th
at kin
d eco
nom
ic-ally or defense-w
ise or politically. M
R. F
RA
NK
EL
: Mr. H
eath, given the present government of
Fran
ce and
Britain
, wh
at is a good b
et? Wh
at are the od
ds th
at B
ritain w
ill join th
e Com
mon
Mark
et in th
e next five years?
MR
. HE
AT
H: O
f course, in
the n
ext fiv
e years w
e shall h
ave
another election in Britain, and w
e shall be back in power. T
hen th
e situatio
n w
ill hav
e chan
ged
. M
R. F
RA
NK
EL
: May I ask
you, u
p to th
at election w
hat are
the od
ds?
MR
. HE
AT
H: U
p to th
at election?
MR
. FR
AN
KE
L: Y
es. M
R. H
EA
TH
: I am n
ot a b
etting m
an m
yself, b
ut I th
ink th
e situ
ation is really
this: if w
e are to b
ecom
e a mem
ber o
f the
Com
mon M
arket, B
ritain h
as to accep
t the C
om
mon M
arket as
it is. It is much
too late fo
r us to
try to
alter the m
ake-u
p o
f th
e Com
mon M
arket itself, o
r its rules an
d reg
ulatio
ns, b
road
ly
speak
ing, o
r its prin
ciples.
If we h
ad tak
en p
art in th
e Coal an
d S
teel Com
munity
, the
Schum
an Plan in 1950, w
e'd all have grown up together and de-
veloped together, and we w
ould have all had our part in influenc-in
g it, so
this is th
e first thin
g, to
accept it as it is.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Is it also a sign of ch
ange w
ithin
Britain
, th
an F
rance?
MR
. HE
AT
H: T
hat stage d
epen
ds en
tirely o
n B
ritain. T
he
next stage depends on the comm
unity as a whole. I don't believe
they
wan
t to start n
egotiatin
g u
ntil th
ey h
ave g
ot th
e Com
mon
Market set up com
pletely, and that means the first of July, 1968,
which
is now
two y
ears away
. So th
at part d
epen
ds o
n th
em.
And th
e third
part d
epen
ds o
n th
e Presid
ent o
f Fran
ce, as to
whether he is prepared to have B
ritain as a mem
ber of the Com
-m
on M
arket, an
d I b
elieve th
at befo
re we reach
that p
ositio
n
the F
rench
wan
t to see th
e questio
n o
f the sterlin
g in
deb
tedness
sorted out, because when w
e become a m
ember of the com
munity
the o
ther m
embers u
ndertak
e certain o
blig
ations to
ward
s us in
case o
f balan
ce of p
aym
ents tro
ubles, an
d so
on. A
nd h
e wan
ts to
know
about fu
ture d
efense an
d p
olitical arran
gem
ent fo
r E
urope. M
R. F
RA
NK
EL
: It sounds like long odds. M
R. H
EA
TH
: Yes.
MR
. RA
SH: W
e have just about two m
inutes. Mr. N
ewm
an. M
R. N
EW
MA
N: M
r. Heath
, there h
as lately been
great B
ritish in
fluen
ce amon
g youn
g peop
le in E
urop
e and
in th
e U
nited
States in
such
thin
gs as clothes, m
usic, len
gth of h
air, gen
eral outlook
. Is that a su
perficial th
ing, or is it a sign
of som
ethin
g deep
er the B
ritish are b
ringin
g abou
t? M
R. H
EA
TH
: I thin
k it is a sig
n o
f imm
ense v
itality. O
f course, it hasn't all started from
Britain. T
he Italians introduced a g
ood m
any sty
les them
selves w
hich
were th
en tak
en u
p b
y
the y
oung B
ritish. A
s far as "beat" is co
ncern
ed, I su
ppose
we started
it very
largely
, and it sp
read in
to E
uro
pe, b
ut su
rely
what is in
teresting ab
out it is th
at the y
outh
of E
uro
pe is n
ow
m
ixin
g so
much
. I m
ean, when I w
as young—I w
as born by the coast—I alw
ays lo
oked
across th
e Chan
nel, ju
st by D
over, an
d I u
sed to
go
across d
urin
g h
olid
ays fro
m sch
ool. I u
sed to
hitch
hik
e and so
on, b
ut it w
asn't d
one a g
reat deal. B
ut n
ow
it is taken
as per-
fectly automatic, and you go across on the scooter or som
ething. A
nd th
e Germ
ans are m
ixin
g so
much
with
the F
rench
. This is
the ex
citing th
ing.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Is it also a sign of ch
ange w
ithin
Britain
th
at the you
ng p
eople h
ave a position
they n
ever had
before?
MR
. HE
AT
H: Y
es, I think it is. I think it is a different balance in
society
, and I th
ink th
at is a very
health
y th
ing.
MR
. NE
WM
AN
: Wh
at brou
ght it ab
out? T
he loss of colon
ies p
erhap
s—d
id th
at have som
ethin
g to do w
ith it?
MR
. HE
AT
H: I d
on't th
ink d
irectly, n
o, b
ut I th
ink w
ith
the g
row
th o
f educatio
n an
d w
ith o
ur m
uch
hig
her stan
dard
of
livin
g in
the last 1
5 y
ears, this h
as had
its effect on y
outh
s. M
R. SP
IVA
K: M
r. Heath, there are m
any observers here who
believe th
e British
Com
mon
wealth
has ou
tlived its u
sefuln
ess. D
o you th
ink
so? M
R. H
EA
TH
: No, I d
on't. I b
elieve th
ere is still a part fo
r the C
omm
onwealth to play, and for this reason: W
e have a com-
mon lan
guag
e. We h
ave all h
ad ex
perien
ce of B
ritish ad
min
is-tration, for good or ill. T
here is a great deal in comm
on between
our law
and leg
al system
s, betw
een th
e pro
fessions an
d so
on,
and th
is enab
les us to
talk to
each o
ther th
e whole tim
e, even
w
hen we have differences, as I don't believe any other countries
can talk
to each
oth
er, excep
t perh
aps B
ritain an
d th
e United
S
tates.
MR
. RA
SH
: I am
sorry
to in
terrupt, b
ut o
ur tim
e is up.
Thank you, M
r. Heath, for being w
ith us today on ME
ET
TH
E
PR
ES
S.
10 11
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