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We are here to debate the veracity of a book that concerns upheavals of life,
challenges to how one thinks and believes, holding onto values, miracles
and prophesies.
The main situation is coming into the promised land under the leadership of
Joshua. We are discussing The book of Joshua
I and my colleagues will be defending the veracity and reliability of Joshua as
an ancient document
CS Lewis:
In this debate, I and my fellow faculty members will be
holding our esteemed guests’ views accountable to scrutiny and
the sensibilities of free thinkers.
And so…
Walls fall down? I think not.
McGonagall:
Let’s give credit to a woman archeologist named
Kathleen Kenyon who concluded a small group of runaway slaves came upon
the ruins of Jericho that fell a century or two before and the stuff of legends
began…
the history became more glam the stories more daring and there you have it
walls start tumbling down!
McGonagall:
I’ll take that. Good question let’s consider how she came to her
conclusion. Shall we?
Fred Rogers:
Her conclusions? Of course!
She was sharp enough to know that the
imported Cypriot Pottery of that time would be a marker
showing indeed the site was to the time of Joshua
alas she dug
but … no luck.. no imported Cypriot Pottery
Gentlemen?
McGonagall:
By the way… she dug in the poor section of the city and is it a surprise that poor people
didn’t own expensive important pottery
That would be an argument from silence she didn’t find… but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there
Fred Rogers:
She should have dated the artifacts that were found because the canaanite pottery of local origin there
did fit the right time period and coinage from Egypt supported the time of Joshua as well.
Fred Rogers:
He who asserts must prove, sir. It does not do well to dwell on dreams
and forget to live.
McGonagall:
But pots are pots and we are faculty of Harry Potter school and know better.
McGonagall:
Bryant Wood the archeologist did dig in the rich part of the city and
imagine my surprise when he found the expensive Cypriot pottery, Mum!
Fred Rogers:
Ball back in you’re court, Mum!
Fred Rogers:
The only thing that will fall is fanciful hopes The fallen walls are merely ruins stumbled upon
imaginations ran wild… stories were born…
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
And yet does that fit what we see Large amounts of grain just harvested and still there… that would have been taken or
looted
CS Lewis:
He who asserts must prove.
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
Even Kathleen Kenyon admitted she found much grain in Jericho which under normal circumstances
would have been pillaged by attackers or survivors and fits the book of Joshua perfectly as they were told to
leave it
CS Lewis:
CS Lewis:
burnt grain in the pots
Left behind grain? so what?
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
It was the first city many Hebrews came to in the promised land and perhaps one of the largest amounts of grain
but God commanded them not to take it and they did not
CS Lewis:
It fits the story perfectly. The book of Joshua said it was the time of harvest
and there is the harvest just taken, not eaten and left at the time the walls fell
CS Lewis:
An example of an internal consistency I see consistent with the Bible is that the Jews had offerings commanded
by Moses such as grain offerings and in the dessert grain would be hard to come by
They would look forward to the grain and yet when they first come upon it it would
be given over to God and left almost as a first fruit offering
Jonathan Edwards:
And then Joshua put a curse on the city that no one would rebuild it
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
What sense would that make?
Perfect sense Jericho was on a trade route
Everyone entering the promised land would see it
and they would ask what happened here and God would have a monument to His glory with Jericho
Jonathan Edwards:
I could go on an on… clearly consistent
Jonathan Edwards:
But we can do you a bit better Wall fell down at Jericho
Wall fell down with flood and fire at Nineveh
Jonathan Edwards:
How could there be both flood and fire
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
What sense would that make?
Nahum the prophet prophesied the end of Nineveh like ripe figs falling from a tree
and with flood and fire
Jonathan Edwards:
I repeat. How could there be both flood and fire
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
The rivers did indeed overflow the great walls of Nineveh fell
the enemies marched in the King did not want them to take his riches
so he burned them
Jonathan Edwards:
The rivers did indeed overflow the great walls of Nineveh fell
the enemies marched in the King did not want them to take his riches
so he burned them
Jonathan Edwards:
In Nahum 2:6, the prophet said that Nineveh would be hit with a flood. This reportedly happened while the Babylonians and Medes were attacking the great city around 612 BC. According to the Greek historian Diodorus Siculus, who lived in the First Century BC, heavy rains had caused the Tigris River to overflow and flood part of Nineveh. The flooding destroyed some of Nineveh's protective walls. That might have helped the attacking forces conquer Nineveh. http://www.100prophecies.org/page10.htm
Real history or wishful thinking?
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
612 BC The capital of the Assyrian Empire, Nineveh, was destroyed in 612 B.C. as prophesied in the Bible. The city fell when Nabopolassar’s Babylonian army attacked.
Jonathan Edwards:
hmm… two walls falling… a double play?
Jonathan Edwards:
These prophecies can be read of in the books of Jonah and Nahum.
An “overrunning flood” would “make an utter end of the place” (Nahum. 1:8)Nineveh would be destroyed while her inhabitants were “drunken” (Nahum. 1:10)Nineveh would be unprotected because “the gates of thy land shall be set wide open” and “fire shall devour thy bars” (Nahum. 3:13)Nineveh would never recover, for there “is no healing of thy bruise” (Nahum. 3:19)The downfall of Nineveh would come with remarkable ease, like figs falling when the tree is shaken (Nahum. 3:12)’
see http://www.the-gospel-truth.info/bible-prophecy/destruction-of-nineveh/
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds But really and moving on
… the sun standing still?… get on with that! Bring it back to Joshua, gentlemen, shall we?
Albus Dumbledore:
Thank you for bringing that up, sir Why should a God who made all space time and
matter have the least problem making the sun stand still however he so chose to do it?
Jonathan Edwards:
It was consistent with a claim of a big God acting in history for Joshua to cry out in battle
for the sun to stand still and for God to answer him We aren’t talking about a little God here, sir.
Jonathan Edwards:
Pish posh ! The earth would slosh seas would wash over land
Not remotely possible
Albus Dumbledore:
perhaps you’d enjoy some of the ‘correspondence’ of the Canaanites to Egypt from
that time? The Amana letters?
Jonathan Edwards:
Canaanite rules sent letters in uniform asking for help because of the invading ‘Habiru’
CS Lewis:
The cities attacked later in time by Joshua sent letters for help to Egypt…
CS Lewis:
Earlier cities that were attacked like Jericho, Ai or Hazor sent no such letters.
CS Lewis:
And no help was sent from Egypt later there was a still - monument in Egypt of attacks on the land of Palestine by Egypt saying the Habiru were intact in the land
Yes yes yes… we heard of various so called archeological claims like the finding of the alter Joshua made on Mt Ebal
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
The head professor of Archeology put that one in its place. He said if they found Joshua’s alter at Ebal
His circle of archeologists would have to return to kindergarten!
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
On a level of fact an Israeli Archaeologist named Zertal who was an atheist with no bias in that favor found an alter on Ebal At first thought it walls of a farmhouse
CS Lewis:
Low walls with no door is more typical of the base of an alter
Also the skeletons found being bulls, lambs,cattle are consistent with Jewish
sacrifices
CS Lewis:
What makes you think it was not?
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
And if I may jump in, Canaanites offered snakes and eagles and babies
and bones of no such things found rather…. slide please…
Jonathan Edwards:
Altar found on Mt Ebal with remains of clean animals sacrificed
such as bull, lamb, cattle bones
Fred Rogers:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/biblical-altar-mt-ebal-israelite-footprints/
Prove it
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
Ahem., note the story ‘Score One for the Bible’ Time Magazine,
TIME Magazine -- U.S. Edition -- March 5, 1990 Vol. 135 No. 10 content.time.com/time/magazine/0,9263,7601900305,00.html Mar 5, 1990 - TIME Magazine Table of Contents -- U.S. Edition -- March 5, 1990 Vol. 135 No. 10. ... only Soviet client looking at cutbacks in military and economic aid. Across Asia, Africa and the Middle East, other regimes experience hard times ... Science: Score One for the Bible. Fresh clues support the story of Joshua
Jonathan Edwards:
If that’s true I would eat the biggest shoe I could find Ha!
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
You may need allot of salt and seasoning to go with your shoe, sir
Fred Rogers:
God told Joshua everywhere his foot would touch would be given to him and many religious encampments - aka ‘gilgals’
were found in the shape of a giant sandal print
Fred Rogers:
A LARGE sandal print. Aerial view please
Fred Rogers:
Let’s reign this in a bit. there are all kinds of unusual geological features
so what!!
McGonagall:
Good question but there are 6 such encampments all man
made dating to the time of Joshua… sensing a tend here
‘Everywhere you put your foot I will give you!’
Fred Rogers:
Another clearly man made. Footprint shaped encampment with altar near center.
Fred Rogers:
Seems something ‘afoot’ indeed, mum!
Fred Rogers:
see FOOTPRINTS OF ANCIENT ISRAEL /page title page sub-titleUnusual stone circles may mark biblical 'Gilgal'/page sub-title content
By: John BlackPosted on: 17 Jan 2013 (All day)
https://int.icej.org/news/special-reports/footprints-ancient-israel
Fred Rogers:
see FOOTPRINTS OF ANCIENT ISRAEL /page title page sub-titleUnusual stone circles may mark biblical 'Gilgal'/page sub-title content
By: John BlackPosted on: 17 Jan 2013 (All day)
https://int.icej.org/news/special-reports/footprints-ancient-israel
Fred Rogers:
http://www.science20.com/news_releases/enormous_footshaped_enclosure_discovered_jordan_valley
But really. How about a meaningful prophesy. Something surpassing ‘neither can live while the other
survives’ if you please?
Sybill Trelawney is the professor of Divination:
At the end of the book there is impressive literary unity
The stand in Shechem
CS Lewis:
And what of it
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody:
The land was promised to Abraham in Shechem and there they were
The bones of Joseph were brought from Egypt, looking forward to the time the land ‘flowing with
milk and honey’ would be theirs
Fred Rogers:
And three lives well lived, Joshua, Eliezer the priest and the bones of Joseph finish the book
good literary unity and completion
Jonathan Edwards:
Yes… let’s move on… So, are you starting to see the falling of the wall?
It spells Jesus all over Joshua
CS Lewis:
Excuse me? Jesus?
How, pray tell is Jesus in the book?
Slughorn:
He is the scarlet thread put in the window of Rachab’s house… and the scarlet thread of the hope of the Messiah running through the whole
Bible
Fred Rogers:
He is the refuge provided by the high priest as long as the high priest lives… except Jesus
lives forever and provides perfect refuge
Jonathan Edwards:
He is the one Joshua points to … the successor of Moses ultimately … and the name Joshua is an early form of the
name Jesus meaning salvation
CS Lewis:
Jesus is the one who can even give salvation to a prostitute named Rahab
His mercy and goodness is that great!
Fred Rogers:
We could go on…. as in Psalm 37 and 25 in Jesus
‘the meek will inherit the earth’ as Joshua inheriting the land points to
Jonathan Edwards:
Hmm Psalm 25 and 37?….Speaking of time… that might make for a discussion another time
thank you sirs for visiting us
Albus Dumbledore:
It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand
up to our friends
Now alas we must bid you farewell.
Albus Dumbledore:
And on your way ….
Albus Dumbledore:
What’s happening?
Albus Dumbledore:
Albus Dumbledore:
poof! Dumbledore fades away. underneath a giant shoe
Albus Dumbledore:
Deuteronomy 11:24: “Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.”
I’m afraid dear sirs and madams, we are more real than you.
While you are clever works of fiction we are the ‘poema’ work of God
Is is us who bid you adieu.
Jonathan Edwards:
In the book of Joshua, our guy bested the Walls of Jericho. Whether we did the same will be left to the audience.
Adieu.
Jonathan Edwards:
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