1/24/00
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1/24/00
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l And that's in ~•ltimore;
2 Yasser Ali of 111111111 Court; Salvitore Bianca,
3 Trace Analysis Unit, the Crime Lab, Baltimore City Police
4 Department; Peter 1111111 Road in Baltimore;
s Inez Butler-Hendricks, Woodlawn High School;
6 Detective Gordan Carew or Carew, C-A-R-E-W, the
7 Homicide Unit, Baltimore City Police Department; Saad
8 Chaudry, and I'll spell it. S·A·A-D, and the last name,
ll THE CLBRKz
12 THE COURT: --in 13 Belair, Maryland; Jane Efron, Woodlawn High School;
14 Sergeant Kevin Fost~r, Homicide Unit, Baltimore City
15 Police Department; Ja'uan - that's 111111111 Avenue
16 in Baltimore;
17 Master Sergeant Grant Graham, Armed Forces
lS Institute Pathology, Rockville, Maryland; Detective Kirk
19 Hastings, Homicide Unit, Baltimore City; Dr. Margaret
20 Corral, Medical Sxaminer's Office, Baltimore;
21 Tracy Kramer, Woodlawn High School; Young Lee,
22 111111 Baltimore; Theresa Long, forensic
23 chemist, Baltimore -- I'm sorry, Maryland State Police
24 Lab; Detective Greg McGilvary, -- and I'll spell that, M-
25 C-G-I-L-V-A·R·Y -- Homicide Unit, Baltimore City Police
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l Department;
2 Stephanie Kathy
3 Mitchell, or Michel, M-I-C-H-E-L, , OWings
4 Mills; Crista ~ Road in Baltimore
s County;
6 Ann or 111111 -- I'll spell it, II I 111111111 Way; Eman Obot, Mobile Crime
8 Unit, Baltimore City Police Department; Detective Joseph
9 O'Shea, Baltimore County Police Department,
10 Mahlon Oswell, M~A-H-L-0-N, Mobile Crime Lab,
11 Baltimore City Police Department1 Donna Paoletti, P-A-0-
12 L-E-T-T-I, Woodlawn High School; Nina
111 1111111 Drive, Baltimore County;
14 Aisha .....
15 County; Jennifer Pusateri,
111111
k, Baltimore
16 Baltimore; Mark Pusateri, same addreaa; Detective Bill
17 Ritz or Reitz, Homicide Unit, Baltimore City; Dr. William
18 Rodriguez, Armed Porces Institute Pathology, Rockville;
19 Gerald Russell, Woodlawn High School; Franklin
20 Sanders, Mobile Unit Crime Lab; Hope Schab or Schab, s-c-
21 H-A-B, Woodlawn High School; Dave Sehriener, Woodlawn
22 High School; Street.
23 Melissa Strangroom or Stangroom, Biology Unit,
24 Maryland State Police; Sharon Talmadge, Latent Prints
25 Unit, Baltimore City Police; Nisha or Nisha 1111111 1111111
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• ·= l , Silver Spring, Maryland;
2 Romano Tqomas, Mobile crime Unit; Daniel Van
3 Gelder, Trace Unit; Christy ;
4 Abe Waranowitz, AT and T Wireless Telephone
S Communication; Deborah 1111111111
6 Sharon Watts, Woodlawn High School; Jay Wilds,
7 ~ Avenue, Baltimore County; Lynn or Lynette Woody or
8 Woodley, Woodlawn High School; Aaron - Baltimore
9 City; Abbas Contractor, Baltimore City;
10 Abdul Abo-11 Y-E is the last name spelling; Adila
12 spelled , Sparks, Maryland;
• . 13 Adnan-i· MS. GOTIBRRBZ: -
15 THE COURT: Say?
16 MS. GO'TIBRRBZ: -
17 THB COURT: -med Abdul -
1111 111111 of Baltimore. I'm going to spell this one. A-I-
19 0-A-T, last name,
20 Is that a initial Pd, is that a name, Me.
21 Gutierrez?
22 MS. GO'TIBRRBZ: No, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Okay. Ellieot City, Maryland;
24 Aisha - catonsville, Maryland; Inez 1111111111 25 Baltimore; Ammar Al- B I'm
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l sorry -- B-A-D-A-R-N-E-H;
2 Ammar, last name A ; Admot
3 1111111 Andrew Davis, all of Balti~ore; Inessa 11111111 of
4 Baltimore; Anisha Contractor of Baltimore; Annette
5 Mustafa, Ellicot City; Anthony llllllllll of Baltimore;
6 Anwarul Chaudry, Baltimore; Arian -
7 Stevenson, Maryland; Badr 1111111 or -- or 1111111 -
I llllllllof Baltimore; Biellie 111111 of Baltimore; Cilia 1111111 9 1111111 of Baltimore; Clevon 1111111111 of Baltimore;
10 Coach Sye, S-Y-E, Woodlawn High School;
11 Deborah llllllll of Baltimore. I did McGaffivery.
12 Detective Ritz I did. O'Shea. Detective O'Shea of
13 Towson; Detective Kevin Forrester of Baltimore. I did
14 the Cliendienst.
15 Dorrell Walker of Baltimore; Ernest 11111111 of
16 Baltimore; Esther Ann, and I'll spell the last name, B-E-
17 N-A·R-0-Y-A, of Rockville; Farhana 1111111 spelled 1111111
• - last name, of Baltimore;
19 Farooq 1111111111 of Baltimore; Gerald Russell of
20 Baltimore1 Gloria 11111 of Randleetown; Hope Schab of
21 Baltimore; Inez Butler of Baltimore1 Jane Efron of
22 Baltimore;
23 These are repeats. - Joel 11111 of
24 Baltimore; Kashif 1111111 -- I'll spell it.
25 last name The next name I will do first and
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l last name spelled K
2 Keith 111111111 of Baltimo~e; Chalda 11111111111 of
3 Baltimore; Khan 111111111 of Baltimore; Christa 11111 of
4 Baltimore; Laila - Baltimore; Leslie -
5 spelled Q~, of Baltimore.
6 Lisa 11111 I did. Loay - ~£
7 Ellicot City; Malikallllllll of Stevenson, Maryland;
8 Maqbool 11111 of Baltimore; Mark 11111 of Baltimore;
9 Masood Ali - or - - of Baltimore;
10
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Mazhar of Baltimore1 Merag
of Baltimore; Michael 111111111 of Baltimore;
12 Michael Sye of Woodlawn; Muhammed- and the last
13 name is spelle of Owings Mills.
(Pause.) 14
15 THE COURT: Mohammed Aslam - of Baltimore;
16 Mohammed 11111 - Mohammed I -- - 11111 or -
• ; Mohammed Mustafa - Q·A-L-A-W-
18 E-E; Mohammed N. - one moment.
19
20
21 Mujtal:>a,
(Pause.)
THE COURT:
22 Nargis 11111 Oh no.
Mohammed To -- Tufail -
1 Ali 11111 Mustafa Ali 11111 Nargis 11111 and the last name is
23 - of Owing Mills; Nasreen - -- and I'm not
24 sure I'm pronouncing that -- R-A-B-M-A-N, of Timonium;
25 Norman or Newman - or
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l no -- S-I-D-D-I-Q-I, of Sparks , Maryland; Nauman 11111111 2 spelled Misha 111111 of Silver Spring.
3 Officer Scott Adcoqk we did.
4 Ossame - Patrick - of Baltimore;
5 Philip Budameir of Baltimore; Presley 1111111 III.,
6 Presley 1111111 Jr. of Randlestown1 Qudsia Wahab 1111111 II I - of Baltim0re1
8 Rabia -- Rabia -.Rabia - Raf -·
9 Raf ia Chaudry; Rebecca - Saad Chaudry. Fi rat name
10 ie spelled S·A-D-I-A, last name, Samenna
11 - Samer -- and I'll spell the last name , -
12 •.
13 Sara - Sardar Has•• - Sartaj - • -
14 Syed 11111111 first name
15 spelled S-H·A·H-N-Z-A, last name - Shahrukh 11111111 16 Shamain Rahmam or Rahman; Stephanie
17 Summer , spelled A-L
• ; Syed
19 Amid - Syed .Habeeb~ of Baltimore; Syed Mas
20 ·- Massudur Rahman of Baltimore; Syed Zahid ~ of
21 · Baltimore;
22 Syed, and I'll spell the middle name, Z-A-H-I-
23 D, 11111111 of Baltimore; Tahseen A. ~ of Baltimore;
24 Tanveer Syed of Baltimore; Tarik
25 of Ellicot City. !racy Kramer I did,
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l Umar 111111111 of Ellicot City; Use -- Usman, and
2 I'll spell it, u-s-M-A-N, last name 1111111111 William
3 - Yasser.
4 Ladies and Gentleman, if you know any of the
s individuals whose name I just called, you are related to
6 them, they are personal friends or acquaintances, you
7 work for them or they work for you, I need you to stand
8 at this time?
9 Starting on my left?
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A JUROR: 511.
THE COURT: Number 511. Sir, who do you know?
A JUROR: Young Lee, I believe.
THE COURT: And how do you know Young Lee?
A JUROR: If it's the same Young Lee, Professor
15 at Johns Hopkins university.
16 THE COURT: The fact that you would know Young
17 Lee as a professor at Johns Hospital, and they may be a
18 witness in this case; that is, they may testify or give
19 testimony, would that in any way -- would that in any way
20 interfere with your ability to be fair and impartial and
21 therefore be able to render a verdict based on the
22 testimony in the courtroom and the law as I instruct you?
23
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A JUROR: No.
THE COURT: Have a seat . Thank you very much .
The gentleman, tall, in the back row, almost
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l back row.
~ 2 A JUROR: 484.
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3 THE COURT: 484?
4 A JUROR: Right .
5 THE COURT: Wh(> do you know?
6 A JUROR: Detective O'Shea I believe . I've
7 dealt with him through work.
8 THE COORT: Detective O'Shea you have dealt
9 with through your work. As a result of dealing with
10 Detective O'Shea through your work or employment, would
ll that interfere with your ability to be fair and impartial
12 if the detective were to testify? Could you weigh the
13 testimony of his -- whatever he s•id with all other
14 witnesses in the case and render a fair and impartial
15 verdict based on what you hear in the courtroom and the
16 law ae I instruct you?
17 A JUROR: Yes, I could.
18 THE COURT : Thank you very mueh. You may be
19 seated .
20 MS. GUTIIRRBZ: Could we find out where the
21 gentleman works?
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THE COURT: We will in just one moment .
Sir, that's Number 484?
A JUROR: Yes.
THE COURT: 19here do you work?
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l prosecutor to your right , belongs to the office that
2 would be representing you; that is, you would be a
3 witness for the State ' s Attorney's Office in the case
4 that you are have in front of you.
s THE JUROR: Okay.
6 THE COURT: The fact that, in a sense, his
7 off ice is going to be representing you on the first of
8 February,
9 THE JUROR: Okay.
10 THE COURT : eould that cause you to be able
11 to be fair and impartial in this case, render a --
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A JUROR: Not if I had this -- this is going to
THE COURT: . Listen to -- listen to --
A JUROR: No . It would not.
THE COURT : It would not interfere with your -
A JUROR: No. It would not.
THE COURT: ability to be fair and
19 impartial?
20 THE JUROR: No, it would not .
21 THE COURT: The fact that his office is going
22 to represent you in a couple of weeks would not cause you
23 to be unfair to the defense?
24 A JUROR: Nope . It would not .
25 THE COURT : You would listen to the facts o.nd
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1 circumstances?
2 A JUROR: Yes.
3 THE COURT: And render a fair and impartial
4 verdict?
5 A JUROR: Yes.
6 THE COURT: Thank you very much. Wait a
7 minute.
8 Mr. Urick, any follow up?
9 MR. URICK: No further questions.
10 THE COURT: Any follow up, Ms . Gutierrez?
11 MS. GUTIERREZ: No, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: You may step back . Thank you very
13 much.
14 A JUROR: Sure.
15 (The juror left the bench.)
lG MR. URICK: My concern is his being under
17 subpoena. That could disrupt our court case because he ' s
18 required to be at District Court as a witness that day.
19 That would make him unavailable as a juror at that time .
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THE COURT: on February let?
MR. URICK: Yes. And --
MS . GUTIERREZ: What was it? A preliminary
23 hearing or what kind
24 MR. URICK: It's a -- it's a misdemeanor case
25 which -- so it could end up being a jury trial .
229
l MS. GUTIERREZ: A jury trial.
•• 2 THE COURT: Ms. Gutierrez, you don't have a
3 problem if we strike him, do you?
4 MS. GUTIERREZ: No.
s THE COURT: so why don't we strike him. 278
6 will be stricken for cause, and in an abundance of
7 caution. 376, is the next one.
8 3-7-6? Juror 3-7-6?
9 {A juror approached the bench.)
lO THE COURT: How are you?
11 A JURORz Fine. How are you?
12 THE COURT: I'm fine. Victim of a crime --
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13 A JUROR: Well, my son.
1 • • 14 THE COURT: Your son?
lS A JUROR: Uh-huh.
16 THE COURT: Was a victim? Was he a victim or
17 incarcerated or --
18 A JUROR: He's not incarcerated, he was a
19 victim. They're looking for him now.
20 THE COURT: Okay. They' re looking for the
21 person who --
22 A JUROR: My son.
23 THE COURT: Okay. I misunderstood. They're
• 24 looking for your son right now? He was charged with
25 something?
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l A JUROR: Yeah. Car theft.
2 MS. GtJTIBM.EZ: What was it?
3 A JUROR: car theft .
4 THE COURT: Okay. And ao he' e going to be
5 prosecuted by the S~ate'a Attorney'• Office?
6 A JUROR: Pa>bably so.
7 THE COOR.T: The fact that the State's Attorneys
a Office is presenting a case, this case, would that
9 interfere with the fact and -- and they're also seeking
10 your son, would that ~nterfere with your ability to be
11 fair and impartial,. ·render a verdict solely on the
12 evidence
13 THE JUROR t 'No, it would.n' t.
14 THE COOJt'l': and the law as I instruct you?
15 A JUROR: No. I don't it won't.
16 THE COURT: it won't have anything to do with
17 your --
18 A JUROR: No. No.
19 THE COORTi :AnY follow up question, Mr . Urick?
20 MR. URICK: No. Thank you, Your Honor .
21 THE COOR.Ti Any follow up, Ms. Gutierrez?
22 MS . GUTIIUBZ : No, Your Honor.
23 THE COURT: Thank you very much, ma' am . You
24 may step back .
25 (The juro~ left the bench.)
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l THE COURT: 353.
2 (A juror approached the bench.)
3 THE COURT: l·S-3?
4 A JUROR: I'm sorry to --
5 THE COURT: Hi.
6 A JUROR: Hi •
7 THE COURT: You indicated that you had was a
a victim of a 'crime, someone in your family
9 A JUROR: ~eone in my family . '
10 THE COURT: ' And can you tell me about that?
11 A JUROR: · Yeah. My brother was convicted of a
12 crime.
13 THE COURT: Brother was convicted of what?
14 A JUROR: It was -- I think it was armed
15 robbery.
16 THE COURT: Okay. And is he in jail?
17 A JUROR: No. He's out now.
18 THE COURT: Okay. And do you believe he was
19 treated fairly by the system?
20 A JUROR: Yes.
21 THE COURT: And do you believe you could be
22 fair and impartial in this case?
23 A JUROR: . Yes, I do .
24 THE COURT: And render a verdict solely on the
25 evidence and the law as I instruct you?
232
1 A JUROR: Yes.
• 2 THE COURT: Any follow up, Ms . Gutierrez? · I
3 MS. GUTIERREZ: No, Your Honor.
" 4 THE COURT.: Follow up, Mr . Urick?
5 MR. URICK: No, Your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Thank you very much, ma'am. You
7 may step back.
8 A JUROR: Okay. Thank you.
9 (The juror left the bench.)
lO THE COURT: Juror 59? Juror Number 59?
11 (A juror approached the bench.)
12 THE COURT: You indicated that you were the .: 13 victim of a crime, or someone in your family was, you
14 have a pending case, or someone w•s incarcerated?
15 A JUROR: Friend of mine who I see4 talk to
16 maybe every three or four weeks,
17 THE COURT : Uh-huh .
18 A JUROR: -- who works in the same agency but
19 not in the same building as I do, her father was, her 79-
20 year old father, was killed last year in that spree of
21 elderly murders in Guilford .
22 THE COURT: Okay. Do you know if they caught
23 anyone?
• 24 A JUROR: He's been convicted.
25 THE COURT: And the person's convicted . Do you .. '
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1 think that the system treated you friend fairly?
2 A JUROR: Yea.
3 THE COURT: Okay. As a result of that case, do
4 you believe you can be fair and impartial in this case
s and render a verdict solely on the evidence and the law
6 as I instruct you?
7 A JUROR: Yes. I could be.
8 THE COURT: Any follow up, Ms. Gutierrez?
9 MS. GUTIERREZ: No, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Any follow up, Mr. Urick?
11 MR. URICK·: No, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT·:· Thank you very much, sir. You may
13 step back .
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(The juror left the bench.)
THE COURT: Juror Number - -
(A juror approached the bench. )
THE COURT: How are you?
A JUROR: Okay.
THS COURT! You indicated you'd been a victim
20 of a crime or someone in your family had been
21 incarcerated or had a pending case?
22 A JUROR: The best friend of my niece in the
23 past year was a victim of a rape. And there was actually
24 two events.
25 THE COORT: Okay.
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1 A JUROR: He --
2 THE coURTs As to the rape. Do you believe
3 that -- did they catch the person'who did this, the rape?
4 A JUROR: Actually, l believe so, I don't know.
s It was kind of private. I only accidently found out from
6 her mother, and I didn't really ask any questions about
7 it because it was private.
8 THE COURT: Okay. And as a result of that
9 information being given to you, does that interfere with
10 your ability to be fair and impartial in this case?
11 A JUROR: I believe not.
12 THE COORT: Okay. And the second incident?
13 A JUROR: Second incident, and this was just
14 this Friday at like 10:40 in the morning, a person l knew
15 worked with, was sot in the baek in my workplace.
16 THE COORT: Shot in the ha.ck in your work-
17 place. And as a result of that incident on Friday, would
18 that interfere with your ability to be: fair and impartial
19 in this case?
20 A JUROR: Not necessarily.
21 THE COURT: When you say, "Not necessarily,"
22 you're hesitating. You just closed your eyes and shook
23 your head.
24 A JUROR: I'm alright -- okay .
25 THE COURT: And the record's not going to
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l THE COURT: Yes. Are you talking about the
2 main panel?
3 MR. ORICK: No.
4 THE COURT: Ladies and Gentleman of the panel
s that are seated out here, you may now leave with my
6 thanks. You have now completed your one day or one
7 trial. You will not be called this year.
8 Thank you very much for your patience.
9 Rand thoae out to the jurors.
10 Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, my law clerk
11 is going to hand you a form that will tell you where
12 you're supposed to be and I'll speak to you about that in
13 just one moment .
14 (Counsel and the defendant approached the
15 bench, and the following ensue.~:)
16 THE COURT: Yes?
17 MR. URICK: Earlier today the Court i ndicated
18 that they might want to do opening and maybe one witness
19 tomorrow. Because of that break in time between then,
20 however, the State would ask if for an alternate, have a
21 brief period tomorrow and we begin on Thursday with
22 opening and that.
23 THE COURT : With the jury?
24 MR. URICK: Yes .
25 MS. GUTIBRRBZ: Yes •
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THE COURT: Because we have motions to do.
MS. GUTI~Z: Yes. I will tell you, the
3 motions are not going to take all morning .
4 THE COURT: But I still have to clean up my
s docket .
6 MS. GUTIERREZ: Yes.
7 THE COURT: Make sure that that's done.
8 MS . GUTIERREZ: I'd ask the Court just to
9 MS. MURPHY: That also gives them two days --
10 THE COURT: Make other arrangements.
11 MS. GUTIERREZ: Make arrangements, whatever .
12 THE COURT: I will do that.
13 MR. URICK : Thank you.
14 MS. GUTIERREZ: Thank you.
15 (Counsel and the defendant returned to the
16 trial tables, and the following ensued:)
17 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and Gentleman, I
18 need your attention for a moment. First, I want to thank
19 you for your patience. I know this has been a tedious
20 procedure that we've been following, but believe me, we
21 have reasons.
22 And as you saw near the end, we got really
23 close to not having enough jurors. I must tell you that
24 you are in Judge Noel's courtroom. And in the envelope
25 is, in fact, information about me.
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l My name is Wanda Keyes H•ard . And my courtroom
2 i• on the third floor. But my courtroom is very small
3 and would not have held the numl:>er 'of people that were
4 here. So Judge Noel .allowed me to use his courtroom for
5 jury selection.
6 The trial will take place, however, in my
7 courtroom on the third floor. And in that envelope. it
8 provides you with; one, the location of my courtroom;
9 two, the location of my jury room and also phone numbers
10 in the event there is a problem or a question.
11 We've been hearing a lot. on the news about
12 anow. If, in fact, this courtroom is closed during the
13 course of this trial, WBAL TV, Channel 11, will make an
14 announcement. And if in doubt, yau can do two things.
15 You can call the number that I've provided for you where
16 I will leave a message indicating the court is closed .
17 Or you may call the jury commissioner's office.
18 or you ca.n call the city operator. The city
19 Baltimore City oper•tor. And if you were to call just o,
20 information, and ask for the Baltttn0re City operator,
21 that operator would tell you whether the courthouse was
22 closed.
23 so there's a number of vaya you can be assured
24 as to whether or not this Court i• open and operating .
25 I'm going to give you some time, Ladies and
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1 Gentleman, to adjust your schedules and your personal
~~ 2 matters so that you can direct your attention to this
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3 trial .
4 As you know, it should take about two weeks --
s two and a half weeks or more. And I say "or more," it
6 should be about two and a half weeks for us to conclude
7 this trial .
8 The reason it will take so long is that before
9 I can start this case each day, I must first do my own
10 docket. Sometimes there's only one case. Sometimes
11 there's three. Sometimes they give me as m.any as five or
12 six cases, and then I can go back to this trial.
13
14
15
16
17
So we will work through the next few days and
weeks in order to aom -- complete this case to a
conclusion in the best, fast and most efficient way as I
can .
And I will advise you each day to the extent
18 possible what my expectation is for the next
19 me begin by telling you that you will not be
day. So let
sitting 20 tomorrow. Th
ere are preliminary motions we will handle, and I will mak
e sure that we do that and allow you some time to talc
e care of your personal matters.
On Wednesday I have a funeral and my docket . There's no way th .
at I will sit on W dn e esday. So you now
have tomorrow and Wednesday to make whatever personal
21
22
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25
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1 be asked to leave the courtroom .
2 And if it continues, you will be barred from
3 the courtroom. Now~ I know that may be harsh but my
4 goal is to see that Mr. Sy - -
s THE DEPENDANT: Syed.
6 THE COURT:: Syed, has a fair trial and the
7 State as well. And'. to that end, that's my
8 responsibility. Yoiir responsibility is to be here if
9 you would like to observe. And you are welcome to be
10 here every single dily.
11 But I have competing int~rests, and those
12 must be a priority of me to run this Court as I have
13 taken an oath to do. And so I'm telling you this to
14 advise you and to let you know you are welcome to get
15 up, go to the Ladies room or the Mens room, get
16 yourself together, and come back.
17 You are welcome to talk to the attorneys and
18 ask them if there's evidence they're going to be
19 presenting that may be upsetting. I'm sure that they
20 will let you know. But during the course of the trial,
21 if I find that I can observe anything, then I may ask
22 you to leave.
23 I would note for the record the jury is not
24 facing the audience, they are facing to my left. And I
25 would ask that Counsel be advised that if they observe
223
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•
1 anything that they believe is inappropriate, that they
2 bring it to my attention, and I'd be happy to handle
3 and deal with it.
4 I know that this is a murder trial. The
s victim's family is very upset. But I would also note
6 that the defense family has had individuals here, and I
7 noticed some grinning and laughing and smiling during
8 Mr. Urick's opening.
9 Not -· neither of that is appropriate. And I
10 say so because the defense is entitled to serious
11 consideration as is the State.
12 And so to that end I want to make sure that
13 both the State and the defense receive a fair trial. I
14 would note that I d.Qn't believe any of the jurors made
15 these observations because they w•ren't looking.
16 I looked to see, and they were not looking
17 where I was looking. .And so I'm asking that Counsel be
18 mindful of that.
19 And the rules state that the family of the
20 victim is entitled to be present in this courtroom.
21 And to the extent those rights are victim's rights I
22 will make sure you are here and present. But I must
23 also tell you that I have that competing interest to
24 make sure that the jury is not influenced by anything
25 other than the testimony of the witnesses and the
224
'! 1
. . .. .. l evidence, closing argument, and the law .
• 2 And so I recess Court now until 9:30 tomorrow
3 morning.
4 (The trial was recessed at 5:55 p.m.)
5
6
7
a
9
10
11
12
• 13
.. 1:1 14
15
16
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18
19
20
21
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23
24 • 25
225
' .. __ _.....______________ ...... -----.... ..... ·· · ·~···--·--· ... __ .. ..
•
•
R8PQRTIR.'S CERTIPICATB
I, Charles F. Madden, an Official Court
Reporter of the Circuit court for ~altimore City, do
hereby certify that I stenographieally recorded the
proceedings in the matter of State of Maryland versus
Adnan Syed, Indict~nt Numbers 199103042·46, in the
Circuit Court for ~ltimore City, on January 27, 2001,
before the Honorable Nanda Keys Heard, Associate Judge
(and a jury. ) .
I further certify that the page numbers 1
through 225 constitute the official transcript of the
proceedings as transcribed by me from my stenographic
notes to the within typewritten matter in a complete
and accurate manner.
In Witness Whereof, I have affixed my
signature this 23rd day of March, 2001.
226
. .. ··- ·--··---
Charles F. Madden Official Court Reporter
1/28/00
•
·!?, ., . .
°'~~oo IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR BALTIMORE CITY, MARYLAND /~3!)
STATS OF MARYLAND,
vs . Indictment Nos. 199103042 - 46
ADNAN SYED,
Defendant.
_______ !
REPORTER'S OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS (Trial on the Merits)
Baltimore, Maryland
Friday, January 28, 2000
BEFORE:
THE HONORABLB NANDA KEYES HEARD, Associate Judge
APPEARANCES:
For the State 1 RETURN TO:
KEVIN URICK, BSO. Offlc .. ot the Attorney General KATHLBBN C. MURPHY, BSQ • 200 St. Paul Piilce I
Baltimore, MO 21202 1 Por the defendant: AttentJon: Tina Stavrou
~ 410·576-6491
M. CHRISTINA GUTIERRBZ, ESQ . ....... nttum l>'J: 8·D':t ... ID
~G-., :·:~;;, G~~ l APR 15 2001
•
• ' ..
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And there were rules for her imposed once she
3 got that car?
4 A. Yea.
5 Q. Ia that correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And, like most teenagers, your sister had
8 little disagreements with your mother on a regular basis
9 about what she waa allowed to do?
10 A. Yes .
11 Q. And where she was allowed to be?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And to wh~ she was allowed to have
14 relationships with?
15 A. Well, not that, really.
16 Q. Not really?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Were you a participant in your sister's
19 disagreements with her mother?
20 A. No, I was not.
21 Q. No. Okay. Now, on the day that - -
22 THE COURT: One moment.
23 (Pause.)
24 BY MS. GUTIBRRBZ:
25 Q. on the clay, sir, that you understood that your
62
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· 1 sister didn't pick up your cousin,
2 A. Uh-huh •
3 Q. -- you were the one that was designated to call
4 and talk to the police because of you.r fluency in
5 Bnglish?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Ia that doqect?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And you, air, told the police everything that
10 you knew that you thought could be important?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Because you were worried about your sister;
13 correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And you went to her diary to see if there would
16 be anything in her diary that might lead you to know
17 where she waa?
18 A.
19 Q.
Well, I , .. ~ just looking for the phone number.
Okay. AlflCi the only phone number in her diary
20 was the page that had the phone number on the top that
21 you've identified?
22 A. Yee.
23 Q. Isn't that correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And because the page had the words n Don II
63
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l anything, unusual occurred?
2 A. The phone rang in my cl•asroom •
3 MS. GUTIBJUUIZ: Objection.
4 THE COURT: Based on the responses that this
s witness has already given, and also based on the previous
6 objection before t~ luncheon recess, the court's going
7 sustain this objectio~ and also the line of questioning
8 on where you're going.
9 BY MR. URICK:
10 Q. Do you recall any further discussion with the
11 defendant that day .of those aspects of their
12 relationship?
13 MS. GUTilllRBZ: Objection, for all the previous
14 articulated reasons and because that date has not been
15 established.
16 THE COURTa In the Fall of 1998, the State is
17 asking you on that .particular day you're recounted to the
18 jury, any additio~l conversation• that you may have had
19 with the defendant, and the objection's overruled.
20 THE WI'n1BSS: Just the eame -- the aame con
21 the continuing conversation from that morning.
22 BY MR. URICK:
23 Q. Now, moving forward, do you remember the day
24 that Hae Min Lee disappeared?
25 A. Yes.
144
•
• · : ·:
l Q. Did you have occasion ~P speak with her that
2 day?
3 A. I don't recall.
4 Q. Did you have occasion to speak with her within
s about a week of that time?
6 A. Absolutely.
7 Q. What, if anything, was ahe telling you at that
8 time concerning her relationship or relationships?
MS. GUTIBRRBZ: Objection.
10 THB COUR'ri overruled.
11 THE WITNESS: She had begun dating someone
12 else.
13 BY MR. URICK:
14 Q. And what, if anything, did ahe tell you about
15 her
16
17
18
19
20 Q.
the status of h,er relationship with the defendant?
MS. GUTIBltRE2: Objection.
THB COURT: overruled.
THE WITNB~: · It was over, the relationship.
BY MR. URICk:
on the day she disappeared, when was the last
21 time you saw her?
22 A. I don't recall seeing her that day. I don't
23 know that I saw her that day. I may have but I don't
24 remember .
25 Q. When did you become aware that she had
145
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l
2
A.
Q.
Yes, I am.
And the disallowance of premarital sex between
l persons of any faith dating is not an unusual one, is it?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And what faith was Me . Lee, your friend?
6
7 that.
8
g
A.
Q.
A.
I believe she was Baptist, but I'm not sure of
But you're not sure of her faith?
No, I'm not.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MS. GUTIBRREZ: I have nothing else.
12 THB COURT: Any cross -- I mean, any re-direct
13 in light of the cross?
14 MR. URICK: Ho, no further questions.
15 THB COURTz Very well. May thia witness be
16 axcuaed?
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
MR. URICK: Yes.
THE COURT: May this witness be excused?
MS. GUTIBRRBZ: Yes, I didn't sunmons her.
THE COURT: Can I release?
MS. GUTIBRRBZ: Yes, I didn' t summons her.
THB WITNESS : Okay. Thank you.
THE COURTr On second thought?
MR. URICK: I was just -· didn' t you tell me
25 that you got a letter from the def•nae that they were not
152
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l excusing you?
2 MS • GUTIBaa•z 1 Objection.
3 THE COURT: Mr. Urick, ·x asked the question of
4 counsel. I asked the question of you. counsel has
5 indicated. There's no need to ha.ve any further
6 discussion becaus~ at this point on the record, counsel
7 has indicated that not only does ahe not need her, but
8 she's released from any requirements of this court to be
9 here. So, she is released.
10 MR. URICK: Thank you, Your Honor.
11 THE COURT: In fact, if you would like to
12 remain in the courtroom, you're welcome to do so because
13 you're no longer a witness that ia sequestered. But I
14 must advise you that you may not discuss your testimony
15 with anyone who's currently in the courtroom that is a
16 witness, or anyone that's to be a witness in the futu.re.
17 Do you understand?
18 THE WI'l'NB$S; I understand.
19 THE COURT!: ~ery well.
20 (The witness was excused. )
21 (Pause.)
22 THB COURT: I need you to remain standing, sir.
23 Raise your right hand, listen to Mr. White as he
24 administers the oath.
25 Whereupon,
153
2/4/00
w . !
....
,,.. · .. ,,·'
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR BALTIMORE CITY·, MARYLAND
STATE OP MARYLANI>,
vs.
ADNAN MASUD SYED,
Defen~t.
Indictment No. 199103042-46
REPORTER'S OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS (Trial on the Merits)
Baltimore, Maryland
Friday, February 4, 2000
BEFORE:
HONORABI.E WANDA KEYES HEARD, ASSOCIATE JUDGE (and a jury)
APPEARANCES:
For the State:
KEVIN URICK, ESQ. and
KATHLEEN C. MORPHY, ESQ.
For the Defendant : <>. Rr:TURN l • ···-- .....
M. CRISTINA GUTIERREZ,' ESQ. neral Offlce of the Attorr'AY Ge \
TROWBRIDGE urt Reporter
CRJ~~E!Yl!~~·use East ,;a;1P~H"liift-1~vert Street
ryl&nd 21202 l
nlV\ st. Paul Place . ~ MO 21202 sa.t\mOfe, 11na stavrou \ Attention: 4~~~~:~)
ptease return bY! ~
~~~"\i'~~ MAR 1~ 2001
' .:;: . '
e 1
2
TABLB OF CONTENTS
STATE'S WITNESS&S z DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS . - 3 Inez Butler Hendricks 8 29 101 102
4 Jay Wilds 115 164
5 STATE'S EXHIBITS: FOR IDENTIFICATION IN BVIDKNCE
6 3l(a) 119 121
7 34 121
8 35 162 163
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18 -ooo-
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
l
2
3
4
5
6
PROCEEDINGS
(Jury not present upon reconvening.)
THE ~: All rise. The Circuit Court for
Baltimore City, Part 9, is now in session, the Honorable
Wanda Keyes Heard presiding.
THB COQRT: Please be seated. Good morning,
7 everyone.
8 MR. ORICK: Good morning, Your Honor.
9 MS. MURPHY: Good morning.
10 MS. GUTIERREZ: Good morning, Judge.
11 THE COURT: Are there any preliminaries,
12 anything we need to discuss? I can tell you that my
13 secretary is preparing a schedule for next week. It
14 appears that I have one case almost every day of next
15 week. In other words, one case on Tuesday, Wednesday,
16 Thursday and Friday, which means that we should be able
17 to get started around 10:00, 10:30, about this time each
18 day next week. She is also including the end time for
19 each day. It appears that there is Wednesday when I have
20 a moot court competition that is taking place in this
21 courtroom at 5:00. So we would have to end at 4:30, a
22
23
24
25
quarter of S:OO, and she is indicating those end times.
So we will have that for you and we will have it for the
jury as well.
Anything else?
3
• 1
2
3
4
MR. ORICK: There are two matters this morning,
Your Honor .
THE COURT: Yes .
MR. tJRlCK: To follow up when we left off last
s night on Ms. Watts, I indicated I might want to come in
6 and revisit.
7 THE COURT: Yes.
a MR . URICK: I'm not going to, but I want to
9 make the record clear that we object to the court's
10 ruling, so we preserve our right to appeal. I would just
11 like the record to reflect that we oroke at 5:30 last
12 night. I attempted to research the law, however, when I
13 went to our library which is in this building. This
14
15
16
building closes at 7:00. I didn't have more than a half
hour to do that • ·· I'm not conceding the point .
still opposed and object to the court's ruling .
17 wanted the record to reflect that .
18 THE COURT: Yes.
We are
I just
19 MR. UltlCK: I would point out that the statute
20 indicates that there is a waiver if the client introduces
21 the client's mental condition as an element of the
22 defense. We reserve the right to revisit this in
23 rebuttal .
24
25
THE COURT: In rebuttal, yes.
MR. URICK: Yes, you know, if he --
4
...... _ ....... ____________________________________ --·-·"'
~,~~ " . I o, . I •
•
l A No.
2 Q okay. Now, you used the words that they both
3 confided in you. Do you recall that?
4
5
6 not?
7
8
A
Q
A
Q
9 they?
10 A
11 Q
They both talked to me.
Okay. But you chose the word confided1 did you
I don't remember.
Okay. Well, they spoke freely to you; didn't
That I remember you saying, yes.
They spoke to you, each of them, about what was
12 in their heart for the other1 did they not?
13
14
15
16
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
And they sought you out1 did they not?
Yes.
And each of them appeared to know that the
17 other also sought you out1 did they not?
18
19
20
21
A
0
A
0
They knew it.
They knew it, right?
Uh-huh.
And they didn't appear to be hiding things from
22 you; did they?
23
24
25
A No.
0 And, in fact, you got the distinct sense that
they shared with you things that neither of them could
47
.::1· .' .. . i ·. !
l share with other•?
2 A A lot of things.
3 Q And that they couldn't share those things with
4 their own f amiliea?
s A That is correct .
6 0 And that they were pained by the secrecy?
7 A I don't know if they were pained by it, but I
8 know that they told me things that happened or supposedly
g happened that nobody else should know.
10 Q Well, ~bey were not happy that their families
ll were unhappy wit~ them about this relationship; were
12 they?
A I think Adnan talked to me about his mother and 13
14 father not being happy about it . But Hae, on the other
15 hand, she was different, and if Hae --
0 16 Hae wasn't a Muslim, right?
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
it.
0
A
Q
she not?
A
0
laid back?
No. And if she wanted to do something, she did
She did whatever she wanted to do?
Yes.
She was a pretty determined young woman, was
Yes.
She was not somebody that you would call shy or
48
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1
2
THE COlnlTs That's fine. And does the State
have any individ~&l• such ae law clerks who might need to
3 remain?
4 MS. MURPHY: No, Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Okay. There was a gentleman who
6 was here for sometime.
7 MS. MURPHY: He is just an interested party,
8 Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: Okay. Ver:y well. Now, with regard
10 to my concern, I have no problem with spectators. This
ll is my courtroom. There is plenty of room for the
12 victim's family, ·the defendant's family and other
13 spectators to observe this case. But I need to advise
14 the spectators t~t if you have been here for more than
15 an hour and you a~e asked to step out in the hall, it is
16 because there is a family member that wishes to come in
17 and observe the t~ial. So I will ask, if you are a
18 spectator, that yci>u do that. Then at sometime that I am
19 advised that there is a bigger courtroom available, then
20 we will move to a bigger courtroom. But until that
21 occurs, we will continue here.
22 I also ask that if you have a coat or a jacket
23 on, that you hang that up because it's very warm in here,
24 and it also would make room for others to sit down. If
25 you have bundles, you can put them under you. There is
179
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1
2
space. And I'm 9oing to set up some fans during the
break so it can ocol us off a little bit and maybe crack
3 the windows. Then I'll bring the jury back. And I want
4 everyone to know, we will try to make this as comfortable
5 for everyone as possible.
6 I also advise you, those of you who are
7 spectators, please do not make it necessary for me to
B tell a spectator, a non-family member, to leave for an
9 hour because I will do that if there is a family member
10 in the hallway that would like to observe this trial.
ll Again, if you letye, it doesn't mean you are leaving
12 forever. It just means that for an hour or so, you will
13 sit in the hall. Then after an hour, you will be able to
14 come back in.
15 All right. I'm not going to go into any more
16 detail as to what I mean, I think everyone in this
17 courtroom understands exactly what I mean. We are all
18 adults. We are all mature adults. I would ask that you
19 honor my request. If I'm able to locate a larger
20 courtroom, I will do so.
21 Now, at this moment, this court stands in
22 recess for the next ten minutes.
23
24
25
MS. GUTIERREZ: Ten minutes?
THE COURT: Yes •
THE CLBRK: All rise. This court stands in
180
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situation and we are going to try to work around that
schedule to the best that we can. We will advise you if
3 we are unable to do that.
4
s
6
7
e
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
JUROR lraMBBR SIX: Okay.
THE COURT: All right?
JUROR MQ'MBBR SIX! All right.
THE COUl.T1 Does that answer your question?
JUROR KQMBBR SIX: Yea, it does.
THE CO~T: Very well. You may go.
JUROR ZR1MIBR SIX: Thank you.
THE COtTaT: We will see you on Tuesday.
JUROR NtJMBBR SIX : All right. Thank you.
(Where~pon, the juror waa excused from the
courtroom.)
THE COURT : Okay. And now counsel has a
16 question.
17 MS. BBllAROYA: Yes, Your Honor.
18 THE COtiJRT: I need you to come up to the bench .
19 Is it regarding y~ur witness or client?
20 MS. BBNAROYA: Your Honor, I represent him on a
21 pro bono basis.
22 THE COURT: I understand. One moment.
23 Counsel, I will see you at the bench.
24
25
MS. BBHAROYA: Okay. This is
THE COURT: No, no, no, you need to wait a
251
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2
moment because if you need to speak to me, counsel needs
to be present beqauae I am not going to talk to you
3 without them being present .
4 MS. BMAROYA: Okay.
s (Coune•l and the defendant approached the bench
6 and the followin9 . e~ued:)
7 THE COOITt Okay. Now, please identify
8 yourself for the :record.
9 MS. BBJ!lAROYA: Okay. Por the record, Anne
10 Benaroya.
11 THB COtJRTi Keep your voice down.
12 MS. BIRAROYA: Anne Benaroya. That's B-E-N-A-
13 R·O-Y-A. I am pr9 bono counsel for Jay Wilds . My
14
15
,
question to the eourt is purely straight forward. As I
have mentioned, Mr. Wilds is my client on a pro bono
16 basis. I have put a great deal of time and resources
17 into the case. I provide him with transportation to and
18 from court. There has been an unserved subpoena that Ms.
19 Gutierrez -- this was before the other ease, the first
20 case was tried. I received a call from a process server.
21 I live in Rockville. The process server contacted me and
22 said he had a subpoena to serve me. I said, well, that's
23 fine. Well, I never got it. So I am unserved.
24 What I need to know i•, do I need to respond to
25 this subpoena? Shall I file a motion to quash in
252
2/09/00
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2
Q And back on whatever day that is was over the
time period of the call whatever months, fall included,
3 you knew all of that, did you not?
4
5
A
Q
Yes.
And the test you keep referring to as an
6 origination test, is that correct?
1
8
g
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
A
Q
test?
A
Q
A
Q
An origination test.
Okay. And the test occurs as a scientific
What do you mean scientific?
Well is there a protocol for it?
Yes
Is there a manual written as to how to
perform the test?
A Yes, there are.
Q The results of what happens when you do the
17 test is you make a phone call or you cause one to be
18 made to you, isn't that right?
19
20
21
22
A
Q
A
Q
There can be more to it.
Well , it includes that, does it not?
Yes.
In fact, to originate one must make a call or
23 cause one to be made to you, correct?
24
25
A
Q
Yes.
And when one is doing this origination test
89
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•
1 you dial the numbers just like the rest of us, don't
2
)
you?
No.
4
A
Q And, sir, when you did that origination test,
5 sir, you dialed a certain number, did you not?
6
7
A
Q
I dialed a code, yes .
And you dialed it from a certain location,
8 did you not?
A Yes.
Q And that location was determined by Ms .
1'1 Murphy, was it not?
A Yes.
Q And when you did this origination test you
already knew all these things about the differences
15 phones, did you not?
A Yes.
in
16
17 Q And you were aware that the information that
18 Ms . Murphy gave you because of what she told you
19 involved an actual phone, were you not?
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
Q
A
Yes.
And an actual number, correct?
Yes.
Q And you were aware that that actual number
belonged to a person who subscribed to your network?
A Yes.
90
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2
3
4
Q Isn't that true? And the AT&T wireless
network, correct?
A
Q
Yes.
And you were aware that the addresses you were
5 given didn't appear on the phone bill?
6
7
A
Q
Yes.
And they didn't appear -- the addresses you
8 were given didn't appear as significant addresses in
9 phone records other than the phone bil1, were you not?
10
11
A
Q
I'm sorry, could you rephrase that?
The addresses you were given didn't appear as
12 a list inside A&T records, did they?
13
l•
15
16
A
Q
A
Q
No.
Anywhere, right?
No.
Not in billing and not anywhere else,
1 i correct?
18
19
A
Q
Correct.
And you were aware that what you would be
20 asked to in your words was to check what happened and
21 you made a phone call, not in the ordinary way, from a
22 phone at a address that Ms . Murphy determined, correct?
23
24
25
A No.
Q No? That's what you were asked. to do, isn't
that correct?
91
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1
2
3
'
A
Q
A
Q
I was asked to do that, yes.
Okay.
The process is different.
And you, sir, you didn't decide what it was,
5 did you? Your test . Did you make up this test?
6
7
A
Q
No, I did not make it up.
You, sir, consulted with the manual that
8 outlines how this test should be performed, is that
9 correct?
10
11
A
Q
No, I did not consult with a manual.
No, you didn't. And did you consult with
12 anyone else?
l ,3
14
lS
No. A
Q And, sir, you of course were made aware that
the phone you reviewed the billing records of this
16 phone, did you not?
17
le
A
Q
Yes.
And that's how a list of the oell sites
19 appear, is it not?
20
21
A
Q
Yes.
Because the cell sites appear on the record,
22 correct?
23
24
2S
A They appear on the billing records I was
provided, yes.
Q Okay. And you looked at them before doing
92
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2
A
Q
Yes.
There ' s no magic change that altered the
3 Level of difficulty in regard to making or receiving
4 calls in Lincoln Park during that time, was there?
5
6
A
Q
Between what time frame?
Whenever you made the test, which day
? You can't tell us.
8
g
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
li
19
20
21
22
23
2,4
25
A No, there is no big change, other than the
trees .
Q Other than the trees . That may have lost
their leaves, correct?
A Yes
Q And you, of course, can't tell us whether all
the trees surrounding the burial site 1ost their leaves
if they had leaves to loose because you never actually
visited the burial site, did you?
A I visited the location I was taken to .
I don ' t know the status of the leaves .
Q You weren't taken outside of the Jersey
Walls, were you?
A
Q
No.
And you weren't told that the body was buried
inside those Jersey walls, were you? And you didn't
ask for any further informati,on about the burial site,
did you?
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No, I did not.
You didn't inquire as to what day the burial
took place?
A I was told the day the burial took place was
the day of the billing records.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Was the date of the phone calls?
Yes.
That's what you were told?
Yes.
And by Ms . Murphy?
Either Ms . Murphy or Mr. Urick.
You accepted that information, did you not?
A Yes .
Q The phone numbers indicate phone calls that
occur on the 13th, correct?
A I'd have to look at t.he billing records to see
17 what the date is on it.
18 Q Well, the billing records that you were asked
19 to look at were the billing records on a certain Nokia
20 phone, were they not?
A
Q
Yes.
Not a
A Correct.
your phone?
Q And not any other kind of phone other than the
Nokia, correct?
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A Right.
Q And you accepted all of the information that
you received, correct?
A
Q
Yes.
You didn't receive any other i:ndependent
information that established on the biiling records the
burial of a body occurred on that date, did you?
A
source?
Q
A
Q
From an independent, I mean from another
From any source, sir?
No.
And, sir, did you inquire as to what the
weather was?
A No, I did not?
Q And did you make any attempt to duplicate the
weather conditions
A No.
Q That were alleged to have occurred on the date
1~ you were told the body was buried?
20
21
A
Q
No.
And were you aware that Ms. Murphy or Mr.
22 Urick based their information as to the date of the
23
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25
burial from one source, from a man named, Jay Wiles?
A I didn' t know what their sourc,e was .
Q And did you hear that name?
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A
Q
I have heard the name.
And you, of course would have heard that
3 from Mr. Urick or Ms . Murphy?
4
5
A
Q
Yes.
You don't have any other sourc·e of
6 information connected to this case, do you?
7
8
A
Q
No.
Now, sir, you were told by Ms . Murphy
g whatever information you were told and you then
10 conducted an origination test inside the Jersey wall
11 area that you were shown, did you not?
1.2
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14
15
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A Yes.
Q And that origination test was to cause a
phone call to be made?
A Yes.
Q Because you were informed that it is alleged that
1 7 whoever had that cell phone , which you didn't
18 examine, is alleged to have made a call. from Lincoln
19 Park, were you not?
20
21
A
Q
That's my understanding, yes.
And it was based on that information that you
22 conducted your test?
23
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25
A
Q
A
Yes.
And only from that information?
Yes.
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to conform to the order in which calls were made, were
you?
A
Q
A
Q
No .
And you didn't do so, did you?
No.
Now, in regard to what you can tell us is
from your Erickson phone, whatever model that may be,
when you attempted to originate a call, whatever day
you did so in the fall of 1998 it triggered that cell
site up by the intersection of Windsor Mill Road and
north Forest Park, did it not?
A I'm sorry, could you use short.er questions?
Q Sir, in the middle of that Jersey wall
section where you were directed by Mr. Murphy, you
were asked to conduct the test that you keep calling
origination test, correct?
A Yes .
Q And that origination test means that you
19 caused a phone call to be made from you Erickson phone,
2() correct?
21
22
23
24
25
A
Q
A
Q
A
Yes.
Not a Nokia phone , correct?
Yes.
Of any model, correct?
Yes.
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Q And when you caused t.hat phone to make a
phone cal l based on whatever you did then, whatever day
that may have been it triggered the ceil site that's
located on the apartment building, of indeterminate
height that is located where the intersection of
Windsor Mill Road and north Forest Park Avenue,
correct?
A Yes.
Q Your origination test can't tell us where the
cell phone, whatever model or make it may have been
was, physically, when it made a call on January 13th ,
'99, can it?
A
Q
No it can not.
And it can only tell us that if it was where
You were standing, on whatever day it was you were
standing inside those Jersey wall embankments, that you
would expect it to trigger that same cell site on top
of the apartment building, correct?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes .
But you can't tell us if it did, can you?
It did.
Well, sir, let us backtrack here . All you can
tell us is what your cell phone did, correct?
A Correct .
Q On whatever day you did something with your
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cell phone, correct?
A
Q
Yes.
You can't tell us what another cell phone did
on any date, can you?
A
Q
I can tell some information.
You can tell us what you expect a cell
phone to do if it was in a certain place, correct?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
But you can't tell us if it did that, correct?
No.
Whether some other cell phone that was a
Motorola was involved, correct?
A
Q
I'm sorry, say that question a9ain.
Whether or not the cell phone involved was a
15 Motorola, correct?
16
17
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19
A
Q
A
Q
I don't understand what you ' re referring to.
Well , sir, you used an Erickson, right?
Yes.
And based on what your cell phone did or does
20 you'd expect al.l other simila.r Ericksons to act the
21 same way, right?
22
23
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A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
If they were in the same pl.ace, correct?
Correct.
But notwithstanding , notwithstanding your
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l high expectations for the performance of phones, you've
2
3
4
come across bad phone, have you not?
A
Q
Yes.
Phones that do not perform according to your
S expectations about them, correct?
6
7
A
Q
Yes.
Because phones don't always perform according
8 to specification?
g
10
A
Q
Yes .
Your model nwnber for your Erickson phone is
11 what, sir?
A I don't recall the number. Oh, the model
nwnber is ED398 .
Q And, sir, would it be fair to assume if there
15 are more phones at the same manufacturer by Erickson?
16
17
A
Q
Yes.
And, sir, all you can tell us in regard to
18 other similar model nwnber Erickson phone, is that you
19 would expect it to perform like yours, correct?
20
21
24
23
24
25
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
But it may not, correct?
Yes .
Because it could be a bad quality Erickson of
that number, right?
A Yes.
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Q And, sir, where ever another phone was that
made a call that you are trying to duplicate the input,
if it made a call in a specific location within a
designated A, B or C sector, if it were in C it would
trigger the same site whether it was at the northern
most portion of C, correct?
A Yes.
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Or the southern most portion?
Yes.
Correct? Or the middle?
Yes.
Or the western most edge?
Yes.
Whatever one of the numerous neighborhoods,
15 it might exist, it would still signal the same cell
16 site, correct?
17
1e
A
Q
Yes.
So, all that you can tell us about is what
19 your phone, whatever model it was, did when you made a
20 call at a location you were directed to, right?
21
22
A
Q
Yes.
You can not tell us where the cell phone that
23 made any call on that exhibit, I believe is still in
24
25
your hands, was at any point .any call was made, can
you?
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A
Q
A
No.
Did you hesitate (inaudible)?
Yes, I did .
But your answer is no, isn't it?
My answer in no, I can not tell where a cell a
site -- a cell phone is when it originates a call based
on the billing records.
Q And your test can't tell us where the cell
phone was physically when the call from the line was
made?
A
Q
No, it can not .
And it can only tell us that where ever it
was, when it made this call that it tri.ggered the
signal that you've located as cell site L651C, correct?
A Correct.
Q And 651C would be the purple blob on the right
17 ha.nd side --
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
No.
Of 651?
No.
It would be the pink?
Correct.
Okay. B is the purple, right?
Yes.
So that that cellphone, that was utilized in
146
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1 describing call one could have been anywhere, correct?
2
3
A
Q
Yes.
And it still would have signaled the same
4 cell site?
5
?
8
9
10
11
A
Q
Yes.
And your test can't help us with picking a
spot where it might have been, correct?
A My test can show that if you w;ere in a
certain location, with a certain phone, that you would
originate on a certain cell sit.
Q And the certain location that you did this
12 originating test was selected by Ms. Murphy, correct?
13
14
A
Q
Yes.
You didn't select any location to make a
15 certain call, correct?
16
17
A
Q
Correct.
And your certain phone call made a designated
ie location can't tell us where this phone was when the
19 call was made, can it?
20
ll
A
Q
No, it can not.
It can only tell us that where ever it was it
22 triggered this cell site tower signal, correct?
23
24
25
A Correct.
Q And that would hold true for every single one
of these entries, would it not?
147
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1
2
A
Q
Correct.
And, sir, it would be very easy, the cell
3 phone I showed you that you opened up and identified as
4 a Nokia, sir?
S A Yes.
6 Q That cell phone, other than what you did on
7 the stand, you never really examined?
8
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10
A
phone .
Q
No, I have not examined that particular
And you didn't conduct any test on that one,
11 correct?
12
13
14
15
16
17
lB
A No, I did not.
Q And the fact that may have examined other
Nokia phones at other times, which you may or may not
remember, only tells you what you might expect a
simil.ar model of the Nokia to act like?
A Yes.
Q And to act like means, how it performs,
19 correct?
20
21
A
Q
Yes.
And that includes how it sees signals,
24 correct?
23
24
25
A Yes.
Q Because different phones, though they may be
of the same model, of the same manufacturer may perform
148
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Q Okay. Now, you then spoke to them with this
tape recorder running for how long?
A I believe it was about two hours .
Q And during that period of time, so that two
hours and twenty minutes and another t wo hours.
A I believe so.
Q
A
Q
You answered a lot o f questions , did you not?
Yes ma ' am.
And there came a point, sir, when you asked
to turn the tape recorder off?
A
Q
A
0
A
0
Yes , ma 1 am.
And they didn' t tell you to do that, did they?
Ho m.a ram.
That was your request, right?
Yes ma ' am.
Because you were aware that the tape recorder
was recording what you said, c o rrect?
A
Q
Yes ma ' am.
And you , sir, were aware t hat in that first
21 interview that was not taped which they took notes on
22 and now your second i nterview on tape that you were not
23 telling them the truth, were you not?
A
0
I wasn ' t telling them everythinq, no.
You were not . .And what you were telling them
41
l were lies, were they not?
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A
Q
Some.
So, the answer to my question is yes , I was not
telling the truth, is it not?
Q
MR. URICK: Objection.
THE COURT: sustained.
BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
Mr. Wilds, tbey didn't know that you weren't
telling the truth, did they?
A I don' t know.
Q Wel.l, the only thing that they knew that they
told you was that what you first told them off the tape
:recorder was inconsistent with their other information,
did they not?
A Right.
MR . URICK: Objection.
TEE COURl': Sustained as to what they knew.
BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
Q They told you that your information
contained a lot of inconsistencies , did they not?
A
Q
MR. WILDS:
Yes, ma'am.
And when t hey told you that you answered,
25 yes, did you not?
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A Yes.
Q And shortly thereafter you asked them, can we
turn the recorder off?
A Yes, ma.·•am.
Q And you then spoke to them without the
recorder on, did you not?
A Yes, ma'am. Yes , ma'am.
Q About the same thinqs / riqht?
A No, ma ' am.
Q About t he inconsistencies, right?
A Some of them, yes .
Q And during the ti.me you had the recorder off
there was not record being made of that conversation,
was there?
A I don' t know.
Q Wel.l , when you asked to turn it off they turned
it off, didn ' t they?
A The recordeI, yes .
Q And did they beqi.n again to take notes?
A I believe so.
Q And did what you say to them off of the
record, outside of the tape recording it match the s.ame
thing you told them in your first interview before the
tape recorder got turned on?
A It vasn' t pertaininq to that?
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0 And sir , did it -- so 1 the answer to the
, question is no?
A The subject matter was not the same.
Q So, in the middle, now, sir, in the first
interview going off the tape recorder that was an issue
1 were the events of January 13th, were they not?
A
Q
I 1 m sorry, could you speak up please?
The only thinq about which you were
9 1 questioned in the very first interview, the one that
10 occurred before the tape recorder got turned on, sir,
11 1 were about the even ts of January 13th, were they not?
12
13
14
15
l6
17
18
19
20
21
22
21
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A Yes, ma 1 am.
Q The police didn't have other questions. for
! y ou about unrelated thinqs, did they?
A Not unrelated, no.
Q They didn ' t ask you about other murders , did
I they?
A
a A
Q
A
Q
Ho , ma ' am.
Or other dates , did they?
Ho, ma ' am.
Or other victims other than Hae Min Lee?
No, ma ' am.
Now, y our interview off the record at your
request, concerned different things entirely?
A Pardon me .
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Q Your interview off the record at your reques.t
concerned different thinqs entirely?
Q
MR. URICK: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained .
BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
Mr . Wilds , you just told me that you couldn ' t
answer the question that I asked you yes or no because
your interview concerned different matters off the
record, did you not?
A
Q
MR . WILDS:
Yes, ma 1 am.
And the di£ference in those matters were not
connected to January 13th?
A
Q
A
Q
Lee?
A
Q
you may
Ho, ma 'am.
Meaninq no they were not connected?
Correct.
And they didn ' t concern the murder of Bae Min
Ho, ma ' am.
And it didn't concern anythinq regarding what
or may not have told or done vith your very
good friend, J en. Pusateri?
A
Q
Ho, ma ' am.
And sir, there was no other reason that you
, knew of while you were hauled down t o police
45
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headquarters in the middle of the night, was there?
A No, ma' am .
Q You weren ' t under investigation for the
(i naudible)· / were y ou?
A No,. ma' am.
Q Nobody e l se had given your n ame as someone who
may know something 1 had they?'
MR. URICK:
THE COURT:
MR . WILDS:
Obj1ection.
overruled. That you know of.
I do not know.
BY MS . GUTIERREZ:
Q So , to your knowledge the only person that
mentioned your name was Jen Pusateri, correct?
A Yes, ma ' am.
Q And you were a ware from h e r p hone call when
she reached you at your home after she spoke to the
police?
A I was a ware of her phone call? I ' m not
under standing your question.
Q I ' l l repeat it . Mr. Wilds, you've already told
us that you got a p hone call from your very good
friend , Jen Pusateri on Saturday evening, the 27th of
February prior to your qoi.ng to work, do you recall
that?
l
2
A
Q
Yes, ma ' am.
All right. And in that phone call she gave
l you some in.fo:cnation, not in any detail about her
4 conversation with the pol ice, correct?
s
' A
Q
Yes, ma ' am.
And from whatever she told you -- and at the
7 ti.me she called you, you were aware from what she said
e that she had already talked to the police, were you
' not?
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A
Q
Yes.
And from what she told you, you understood that
your name had come up , did you not?
A Yes.
Q
A
Q
And that wasn ' t a surprise to you, was it?
Not much, no.
Okay. So , sir, when you were being
interviewed by the police you already knew that Jen
Pusateri had told them some things , right?
A Yes, ma ' am.
Q And that the things about which she had
spoken , the police involved the same events they were
.questioniuq you about, isu • t that correct?
A Yes, ma ' am.
Q And when you asked the police to turn off the
recorder , s ir, what was the subject of the
t7
conversation?
A Acquiring a 1awyer.
Q Pardon?
A Acquiring a 1awyer.
Q Acquiring a lawyer. So, you asked them to
prov ide you a lawyer in the middle of y our tape recorded
statement?
A No, ma' am.
Q You asked them how d o you go about getting a
lawyer?
A Yes, ma' am.
Q And they answered you, did they not?
A No, ma' am, they di.d not.
Q They didn't give you any info:anation about
how yo u went about acquiring a lawyer?
A No , ma' am.
Q They assured you, sir, that you had not been
charged witb any crime , did they not?
A No, ma' am.
Q Did they just sit there and say nothing when
you asked them, guys by the way, how do I qet a l awyer?
A No , ma' am.
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A Yes, ma ' am.
Q That you didn't want to get her invo1ved in the
case , correct?
A Yes , ma' am.
Q And you expressed concern over Christa Vincent's
father's profession, did you not?
A Yes , ma'am.
Q Yes. And Christa Vincent' s father was not your good
friend, was he?
A I'm sorry, you' re speakinq away from me .
Q Christa Vincent's father was not your qood friend · ·
A No, ma ' am.
Q Was he? You had never met him, had you?
A No, ma'am.
Q He didn't live with her, did he?
A No, ma ' am.
Q But you became concerned because of her father's
profession so you lied by omission about her interaction with
you on the 13th, did you not?
A Yes , ma' am.
Q And in fact , on the 15th of March, two weeks and a
day after you had your first two statements, one recorded, one
not you to1d them about goinq to Christa Vincent's house one
time, did you not?
A Yes, ma' am.
137
l Q And after the 15th of March there came another
9 ,:: 2 occasion in which you spoke to them, did there not?
,. 3 A I believe so.
4 Q And that was on the 13th. of April , was it not?
s A I belie ve so.
' Q And that occasion, once aqain were you taken down to
7 police headquarters?
8 A I believe so.
9 Q And in- between the 15th of March and the 13th of
10 Apr il Sir, you were .at liberty, were you not?
1l A Yes , ma r am.
12 Q You were not in jail, were you?
13 A No, ma'am.
~ lA Q You were never charged, were you?
IS A No, ma ' am.
16 Q And between the 15th of March and the 13th of April
17 you didn 't get a lawyer, did you?
18 A No, ma'am.
19 Q And you didn't ask them again about how it that you go
20 about to get a lawyer, isnrt that correct?
n A Yes, ma'am.
22 Q On the 13th of April you told them something else
23 about Christa Vince11t, did you not?
24 A I believe so.
9 · 25 Q You told them that you had been there twice that day
138
1 at different times, correct?
2
3
A
Q
Yes, ma' am.
On the first ti.me you mentioned Christa Vincent
, havinq lied by omission about her previously you never
s mentioned her boyfriend, did you?
6 A No, ma'am.
7 Q Her boyfriend's name was Jeff Johnson, isn ' t that
a cor rect?
t A Yes.
10 Q And Jeff Johnson was present at Christa Vincent's
u house when you were thexe on the 13th of January, was he not?
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Q
Yes, ma' am.
But you had.n1 t told the pol.ice about it on the
28th of February, had! you?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Ro, ma'am.
Even the first time without a recorder, right?
No , ma'am.
Nor the second time with a recor-der, riqbt?
No , ma'am.
Nor your tllird statement on March 15th witb a
recorder , right?
A No, ma'am.
Q So you lied by omission about the presence of
someone else to these critical events three times be.fore
you mentioned his name, correct?
13,
l A Yes, ma 1 am.
9 .1 2
: 3
Q And Jeff Johnson sir1 would you have described him
as a very good friend?
4 A No, ma'am.
s Q And you certainly woul d not have descr ibed him as a
6 very, very good :friend , correct?
i A No, ma'am.
8 Q He was just Ms. Vincent ' s boyfriend, was he not?
9 A Yes, ma'am.
lQ O But he was as you said on the fourth time with the
ll police he was there 1 correct?
12 A Yes, ma' am.
ll Q But you had lied by omission about him on at least
~ 14 three times , correct?
15 A I believe so.
16 Q Now Mr . Wilds / in regard to when you were talking
l. 7 about your clothes?
16 A Yes, ma'am.
19 C Now at some point you described to the poJ.ice 1 well l.et
~o me go back . Aft.er the 13th of April did you talk to them aqain,
21 the police?
.22 A Yes, I believe it was --
23 Q When was that?
24 A I believe it was some time in September.
e 25 Q In September. September 7th to be exact?
1'0
l A I believe so.
I
e·' 2
l
Q That was the day you signed the plea agreement,
isn' t that correct?
• A I believe so.
s Q And so in-between April 13th and September 7th you
6 didn 1 t speak to them?
7 A Bot that I can recall.
9 Q You would have recalled, 'llfould you have not?
9 A There possibly could have been a phone conversation that
10 I don't remember.
ll Q That you don't remember?
12 A Ho, ma'am.
13 Q So your testimony is maybe there was a conversation with
I ~ 16 the police about these events and you might not remember?
lS A It did not pertain to -
u MR. URICK: Objection.
11 BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
18 Q Prior to testifying to today sir, you prepared for
l9 this, had you not?
20 MR. WILDS:
21 A Ho, ma'am.
ll Q Well, you ' ve spoken to Mr. Orick and .MS • Murphy, did you
23 not?
~· A Yes, ma'am.
e 25 Q And you prepared for your testimony, have you not?
l41
. -···--------------------------------
l
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
' 10
l.1
1• l.J
u
lS
lfi
A What do you mean by prepared?
Q You spoKen to them a.bout the fact that you're going
to testify?
A
Q
A
Q
Yes.
And about what you are going to testify a.bout?
No , ma ' am.
No. You haven't spoken to them at all about what
you ' re expected testimony would be?
A Not the details, no.
Q
A
Q
Q
Pardon.
Not the details, no.
Ob, the non details.
MR. URICK: Objections .
THE COURT: Sustained .
BY MS . GUTIERREZ :
So what you've spoken to them about is something
11 other than the details , right?
l8 MR. WILDS:
19
20
A
Q
Yes.
Okay. And the detai1s sir, is that the important
21 stuif or the non important stuff?
A
Q
A
Q
That's in the eye of the beholder.
That's in the What?
That's in the eye of the beholder.
Well sir, you' re the beholder. In your eye --
142
.. , . l MR. URICK: Objection.
--~ · 2 ., 3
Q Are the detail.s important stu£f or the non
important stuff?
4 THE COURT: Sus tained.
s BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
6 Q Sir, did you omit any info:anation from Mr. Urick?
7 MR. URICK: Objection .
8 THE COURT: Did you omit any information from Mr.
9 Urick?
lO BY MS . GUTIERREZ:
u Q In your discussions with Mr. Urick, did you omit as
12 we talked about omission by lying omission, info.rma.tion
13 from Mr. Urick when you spoke to him?
~ u MR. URICK: Objection.
15 THE COURT: Sustained as to the form of that
16 question. If you want to narrow it down and get us to a
17 specific subject matter .
18 BY MS. GUTIERREZ:
19 Q How many times did you speak to Mr. Urick?
20 MR. WILDS:
21 A Before coming to court?
22 O Before testifying as you started on Monday, six days
23 ago?
24 A Th:cee .
e lS Q Three. And would it be fair to say that the subject
14.l
., l matter of each of those three conversations was on the events
I
-~ 2
I 3
of January 13th, did it not?
A Yes, ma' am.
4 Q Not about anything else, riqht?
s A No, ma'am.
' Q And on every occasion you spoke to him it was
7 after you bad already entered the plea ag.reement, right?
8 A Yes, mar am.
' Q And that was lonq after you had already lied by
10 omission and lied directly to the police in at least three of
11 the various statements on at least several issues, correct?
12 A Yes, ma' am.
ll Q And did the subject of your lying directly or by
14 omission come up between you and Mr. Urick?
15 A Yes, ma'am.
Q Or you and Ms . Murphy?
17 A Yes, ma'am.
18 Q Yes. In fact, it came up on a11 three occasions ,
did it not?
20 A Yes , ma'am.
21 Q Nov, getting back to the clothes .. You had on
22 certain clothes on the 13th of January, correct?
23 A Yes, ma'am.
Q And at some point you changed out of those clothes,
25 did you not?
144
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