Dating Methods and the Age of the Earth Mike Riddle Answers in Genesis Mike Riddle Answers in Genesis.

Dating Methods and the Age of the EarthDating Methods and the Age of the Earth

Mike Riddle

Answers in Genesis

Mike Riddle

Answers in Genesis

TopicsTopics Are long ages necessary? Carbon-14 dating Radioisotope dating The Bible and time Scientific evidences of age

Are long ages necessary? Carbon-14 dating Radioisotope dating The Bible and time Scientific evidences of age

The Little Grand Canyon of the Toutle RiverThe Little Grand Canyon of the Toutle River

Geologic ProcessesGeologic Processes

Picture by Steve Austin, Ph.D. GeologyPicture by Steve Austin, Ph.D. Geology

Rapidly formed strata on the North Fork of the Toutle RiverRapidly formed strata on the

North Fork of the Toutle River

Geologic ProcessesGeologic Processes

Fossils, Fuels and TimeFossils, Fuels and Time

Research and Development, Feb. 1984 Chemical Technology, May 1972

Research and Development, Feb. 1984 Chemical Technology, May 1972

CoalCoal

OilOil Organic Geochemistry, 1986 Washington, D.C., United States Department of

the Interior, Bureau of Mines, 1971 Organic Geochemistry, 1993

Organic Geochemistry, 1986 Washington, D.C., United States Department of

the Interior, Bureau of Mines, 1971 Organic Geochemistry, 1993

Petrified WoodPetrified Wood US Patent & Trademark Office, Patent No.

4,612,050

US Patent & Trademark Office, Patent No. 4,612,050

Summary of TimeSummary of Time

Canyon formation

Sedimentation

Coal, oil, and petrified wood

Canyon formation

Sedimentation

Coal, oil, and petrified wood

All indicate long ages are NOT required

All indicate long ages are NOT required

Carbon 14 DatingRadioisotope Dating

Carbon 14 DatingRadioisotope Dating

What Is Carbon?What Is Carbon?Carbon-14 is also referred to as:

C-14 Radiocarbon

Types of carbon (isotopes)

Carbon-14 is also referred to as: C-14 Radiocarbon

Types of carbon (isotopes)

14

6

14

6

9

6

9

6

16

6

16

6

Atomic massAtomic mass

Atomic numberAtomic number

How Carbon-14 Is ProducedHow Carbon-14 Is Produced

Cosmic Rays (radiation)

Collision with atmosphere (N14)Collision with atmosphere (N14)

Forms C-14Forms C-14 C-14 combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2)

C-14 combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2)

Carbon-14 Life CycleCarbon-14 Life Cycle

14

6

14

6

14

7

14

7

14

7

14

7

Cosmic radiation

Carbon-14 is produced in the atmosphere

Carbon-14 decays into Nitrogen-14

Carbon-14 is produced in the atmosphere

Carbon-14 decays into Nitrogen-14

How long does this decay process take?

Maximum dating range about 60,000 yearsMaximum dating range about 60,000 years

Half-Life IllustrationHalf-Life Illustration

Time = 0Time = 0

C-14C-14

11,460 years2 half-lives

11,460 years2 half-lives

N-14

C-14C-14

3/43/4

C-14C-14

5,730 years1 half-life

5,730 years1 half-life

1/21/2

1/21/2

N-14

The AssumptionThe Assumption

The amount of C-14 produced in the atmosphere is equal to the amount

removed over a period of time

The amount of C-14 produced in the atmosphere is equal to the amount

removed over a period of time

C-14 produced

C-14 removed

EquilibriumEquilibrium

Carbon-14Carbon-14

Over 25% out of equilibriumConclusion: The earth is young

Over 25% out of equilibriumConclusion: The earth is young

I’m Young after all

Dr. Willard Libby and belief Dr. Willard Libby and belief

If we detect C-14, it is good evidence it is not millions of years old

If we detect C-14, it is good evidence it is not millions of years old

Anything older than about 80,000 years should have no datable C-14

Anything older than about 80,000 years should have no datable C-14

Carbon-14 and AgeCarbon-14 and Age

Carbon-14 and AgeCarbon-14 and Age

Carbon is consistently found in oilCarbon-14 has been found in

diamonds

Carbon is consistently found in oilCarbon-14 has been found in

diamonds

Carbon-14 is consistently found in coal

Carbon-14 is consistently found in coal

Evidence Versus BeliefEvidence Versus Belief

Scientists (evolutionists) assume the standard geological time scale is valid and have no special interest in this result!

Scientists (evolutionists) assume the standard geological time scale is valid and have no special interest in this result!

Evolutionists are ignoring the evidence

All IdeasAll Ideas

How do they work?Are there any assumptions?

How consistent are they?

How do they work?Are there any assumptions?

How consistent are they?

Why People BelieveWhy People Believe

Peer pressure (specifically the education system)

Intellectualism (science versus religion) Don’t want to hear the information Young earther’s are ignoring the scientific

evidence

Peer pressure (specifically the education system)

Intellectualism (science versus religion) Don’t want to hear the information Young earther’s are ignoring the scientific

evidence

Scientists have proven the earth old Scientists have proven the earth old

The Bible does not teach how old the earth is

Not an important issue, but it must be old Most scientists believe in an old earth Pride

The Bible does not teach how old the earth is

Not an important issue, but it must be old Most scientists believe in an old earth Pride

TextbooksTextbooks

“Using radioactive dating, scientists have determined that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, ancient enough for all species to have been formed through evolution.”

“Using radioactive dating, scientists have determined that the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, ancient enough for all species to have been formed through evolution.”

Biology: Visualizing Life, Holt, Rinehart, Winston, 1998, p.177.Biology: Visualizing Life, Holt, Rinehart, Winston, 1998, p.177.

Radioactive DecayRadioactive Decay

DecayUranium Lead

Potassium ArgonDecay

Parent elementParent element Daughter elementDaughter element

Radioactive DecayRadioactive Decay

Cannot be used on sedimentary rocks (limestone, sandstone, and shale)

Cannot be used on sedimentary rocks (limestone, sandstone, and shale)

238U

234Th

234Pa

234U

230Th

206Pb

210Po

Used to date igneous and metamorphic rocks (basalt)

Used to date igneous and metamorphic rocks (basalt)

Hour Glass ExampleHour Glass Example

Hour Glass ExampleHour Glass Example

Can you calculate how long you were outside?

Can you calculate how long you were outside?

Four AssumptionsFour Assumptions

2. All the daughter element is due to radioactive decay

3. The sample was always in a closed environment

4. The decay rate has always been constant

2. All the daughter element is due to radioactive decay

3. The sample was always in a closed environment

4. The decay rate has always been constant

1. The starting amount of daughter element1. The starting amount of daughter element

Potassium Argon

Parent ElementParent Element Daughter ElementDaughter Element

Conflicting DatesConflicting Dates Sunset Crater, Northern Arizona

Potassium-argon: 200,000+ Reality: AD 1065

Sunset Crater, Northern Arizona Potassium-argon: 200,000+ Reality: AD 1065

Lava flows at Mt. Ngaurhoe, New Zealand Potassium-argon: 275,000 Reality: 1949, 1954, 1975

Lava flows at Mt. Ngaurhoe, New Zealand Potassium-argon: 275,000 Reality: 1949, 1954, 1975

Hualalai basalt, Hawaii Potassium-argon: 1.4 – 22 million Reality: AD 1801

Hualalai basalt, Hawaii Potassium-argon: 1.4 – 22 million Reality: AD 1801

Mt. Etna basalt, Sicily Potassium-argon: 140,000 – 350,000 Reality: 1972

Mt. Etna basalt, Sicily Potassium-argon: 140,000 – 350,000 Reality: 1972

Conflicts in DatesConflicts in Dates

Rocks that were created since the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens dated up to 2.8 million years old

Rocks that were created since the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens dated up to 2.8 million years old

Radioisotope DatingRadioisotope Dating

If the dates are never right when we know the age of the rocks, how can we be sure they are correct when we don’t know the exact date of the rocks?

Reliability and ConsistencyReliability and Consistency

Basaltic rocks of Uinkaret Plateausix K-Ar model ages 0.01 to 17 millionfive Rb-Sr model ages 1270 to 1390 millionone Rb-Sr isochron age 1340 millionone Pb-Pb isochron age 2600 million

Basaltic rocks of Uinkaret Plateausix K-Ar model ages 0.01 to 17 millionfive Rb-Sr model ages 1270 to 1390 millionone Rb-Sr isochron age 1340 millionone Pb-Pb isochron age 2600 million

Gardenas Basalt (Precambrian)five K-Ar model ages 791 to 853 millionsix Rb-Sr model ages 980 to 1100 millionone K-Ar isochron age 715 millionone Rb-Sr isochron age 1070 million

Gardenas Basalt (Precambrian)five K-Ar model ages 791 to 853 millionsix Rb-Sr model ages 980 to 1100 millionone K-Ar isochron age 715 millionone Rb-Sr isochron age 1070 million

PaleozoicPaleozoic

PrecambrianPrecambrian

Old Rocks Are Really YoungOld Rocks Are Really Young

A deposit once considered to be Earth’s oldest seafloor, long assumed to have contained organic compounds from the earliest life-forms (3.5 byo) by earlier “facts” of dating, have now been reinterpreted to be young (thousands of years)

A deposit once considered to be Earth’s oldest seafloor, long assumed to have contained organic compounds from the earliest life-forms (3.5 byo) by earlier “facts” of dating, have now been reinterpreted to be young (thousands of years)

Donald R. Lowe and Gary R. Byerly, “Ironstone pods in the Archean Barberton greenstone belt, South Africa: Earth's oldest seafloor hydrothermal vents reinterpreted as Quaternary subaerial springs,” Geology Vol. 31, No. 10, pp. 909–912.

Donald R. Lowe and Gary R. Byerly, “Ironstone pods in the Archean Barberton greenstone belt, South Africa: Earth's oldest seafloor hydrothermal vents reinterpreted as Quaternary subaerial springs,” Geology Vol. 31, No. 10, pp. 909–912.

Radioisotope DatingRadioisotope Dating

“When the same rock is dated by more than one method, it will often yield different ‘ages.’

And when the rock is dated more than one time by the same method, it will often give different results.”

“When the same rock is dated by more than one method, it will often yield different ‘ages.’

And when the rock is dated more than one time by the same method, it will often give different results.”

John Morris, Ph.D. Geology, The Geology Book, 2000, p. 52.John Morris, Ph.D. Geology, The Geology Book, 2000, p. 52.

Reliability and ConsistencyReliability and Consistency

AssumptionsAssumptions

If you base your theory on a wrong assumption, all your work can be

correct, but the result will be wrong.

If you base your theory on a wrong assumption, all your work can be

correct, but the result will be wrong.

Conflict in DatingConflict in Dating In 1993 scientists found wood (trees) buried in

basalt flows (69 feet deep)

In 1993 scientists found wood (trees) buried in basalt flows (69 feet deep)

Wood samples sent to two laboratories to be carbon-14 dated

Wood samples sent to two laboratories to be carbon-14 dated

Basalt sent to two laboratories to be potassium-argon dated

Basalt sent to two laboratories to be potassium-argon dated

44,000 years44,000 years

45,000 million years45,000 million years

Wood embedded in lava flow (basalt)

69 feet deepWood

encased in basalt

Helium in the AtmosphereHelium in the Atmosphere Uranium ultimately decays into lead Uranium ultimately decays into lead During this process helium atoms are formed During this process helium atoms are formed

238U

234Th

234Pa

234U

230Th

206Pb

210Po

Helium nucleus

Helium in the AtmosphereHelium in the Atmosphere

H

H

H

HH

HH

Not enough helium for an

old earth

Radioactive Decay

Where is the Where is the helium?helium?

Radioactive Decay and HeliumRadioactive Decay and Helium

Helium does not remain long in rocks – it migrates rapidly to the surface and into the earth’s atmosphere

If the earth is billions of years old, we should not find large amounts of helium in granite (zircon crystals)

Over 58% of the helium still remains in the granite (zircon crystals)

Helium does not remain long in rocks – it migrates rapidly to the surface and into the earth’s atmosphere

If the earth is billions of years old, we should not find large amounts of helium in granite (zircon crystals)

Over 58% of the helium still remains in the granite (zircon crystals)

What does this mean?

Radioactive decay (uranium to lead) produces helium atoms

Radioactive decay (uranium to lead) produces helium atoms

Evidence for a Young EarthEvidence for a Young Earth

The evolution model of billions of years does not match the data

The creation model of a young earth best matches the data (about 6,000 years)

The evolution model of billions of years does not match the data

The creation model of a young earth best matches the data (about 6,000 years)

There has not been enough time for the helium to diffuse out of the granite (zircon crystals)

There has not been enough time for the helium to diffuse out of the granite (zircon crystals)

I’m Young after all

The Bible and TimeThe Bible and Time

The Creation DaysThe Creation Days1. Meaning of ‘Yom’2. Yom with a number3. Evening and morning4. Genesis 1:145. Exodus 20:11 6. Words used to indicate time7. Sentence structure8. Genealogies (Gen 5, 1Chron 1, Luke 3)9. Plants and the sun10. The plain reading of the text11. Lexicons and theological dictionaries12. Semantics

1. Meaning of ‘Yom’2. Yom with a number3. Evening and morning4. Genesis 1:145. Exodus 20:11 6. Words used to indicate time7. Sentence structure8. Genealogies (Gen 5, 1Chron 1, Luke 3)9. Plants and the sun10. The plain reading of the text11. Lexicons and theological dictionaries12. Semantics

Counter ArgumentCounter Argument

Passage has no creation context Refers to the last days and false teachers Entire passage refers to God’s timing and His

nature

Passage has no creation context Refers to the last days and false teachers Entire passage refers to God’s timing and His

nature

2 Peter 3:82 Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

RATE GroupRATE Group

RATE: Radioisotope and the Age of The Earth

RATE: Radioisotope and the Age of The Earth

John Baumgardner, Ph.D. GeophysicsLarry Vardiman, Ph.D. Atmospheric PhysicsD. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D. PhysicsEugene Chaffin, Ph.D. Nuclear PhysicsAndrew Snelling, Ph.D. GeologySteven Austin, Ph.D. GeologyDonald DeYoung, Ph.D. PhysicsJohn Morris, Ph.D. Geological EngineeringKenneth Cumming, Ph.D. BiologyWilliam Hoesch, M. S. GeologyStephen Boyd, Ph.D. Hebraic and Cognitive Studies

John Baumgardner, Ph.D. GeophysicsLarry Vardiman, Ph.D. Atmospheric PhysicsD. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D. PhysicsEugene Chaffin, Ph.D. Nuclear PhysicsAndrew Snelling, Ph.D. GeologySteven Austin, Ph.D. GeologyDonald DeYoung, Ph.D. PhysicsJohn Morris, Ph.D. Geological EngineeringKenneth Cumming, Ph.D. BiologyWilliam Hoesch, M. S. GeologyStephen Boyd, Ph.D. Hebraic and Cognitive Studies

Evidences for a Young EarthEvidences for a Young Earth Helium in the Earth’s atmosphere Nuclear decay rates (Radioisotope dating) Sodium in the oceans Rapid disintegration of comets Erosion of continents Sediments in the ocean Decay of the Earth’s magnetic field Carbon-14 ratio in the atmosphere Radiohalos for polonium in granites Population statistics Recession of the moon Many more …..

Helium in the Earth’s atmosphere Nuclear decay rates (Radioisotope dating) Sodium in the oceans Rapid disintegration of comets Erosion of continents Sediments in the ocean Decay of the Earth’s magnetic field Carbon-14 ratio in the atmosphere Radiohalos for polonium in granites Population statistics Recession of the moon Many more …..

Who Believes in a Literal 6-Day CreationWho Believes in a Literal 6-Day Creation The RATE group Danny R. Faulkner Ph.D. Astronomy John Byl Ph.D. Astronomy Tom Greene Ph.D. Astronomy Jason Lisle Ph.D. Astrophysics Dave Harrison Ph.D. Astrophysics James Dire Ph.D. Astrophysics Barbara Helmkamp Ph.D. Physics Keith Wanser Ph.D. Condensed Matter physics Elaine Kennedy Ph.D. Geology Duane T. Gish Ph.D. Biochemistry Ross S. Anderson Ph.D. Biochemistry Jonathan Sarfati Ph.D. Physical Chemistry Kelly Hollowell Ph.D. Molecular and Cell Biology Lane P. Lester Ph.D. Genetics Linda K. Walkup Ph.D. Molecular Genetics Ray Bohlin Ph.D. Molecular and Cell Biology Andrew McIntosh Ph.D. Combustion Theory John Johnson Ph.D. Mathematics Bryant Wood Ph.D. Archaeology Charles Taylor Ph.D. Linguistics (O.T.) Steven Boyd Ph.D. Hebraic and Cognitive Studies Hermann Austel Ph.D., Professor Bible Exposition

The RATE group Danny R. Faulkner Ph.D. Astronomy John Byl Ph.D. Astronomy Tom Greene Ph.D. Astronomy Jason Lisle Ph.D. Astrophysics Dave Harrison Ph.D. Astrophysics James Dire Ph.D. Astrophysics Barbara Helmkamp Ph.D. Physics Keith Wanser Ph.D. Condensed Matter physics Elaine Kennedy Ph.D. Geology Duane T. Gish Ph.D. Biochemistry Ross S. Anderson Ph.D. Biochemistry Jonathan Sarfati Ph.D. Physical Chemistry Kelly Hollowell Ph.D. Molecular and Cell Biology Lane P. Lester Ph.D. Genetics Linda K. Walkup Ph.D. Molecular Genetics Ray Bohlin Ph.D. Molecular and Cell Biology Andrew McIntosh Ph.D. Combustion Theory John Johnson Ph.D. Mathematics Bryant Wood Ph.D. Archaeology Charles Taylor Ph.D. Linguistics (O.T.) Steven Boyd Ph.D. Hebraic and Cognitive Studies Hermann Austel Ph.D., Professor Bible Exposition

Belief in a Young EarthBelief in a Young Earth

“I am convinced there is far more evidence for a recent, six-day creation and a global Flood than there is for an old earth and evolution.”

“I am convinced there is far more evidence for a recent, six-day creation and a global Flood than there is for an old earth and evolution.”

Keith Wanser (Ph.D. Condensed Matter Physics), Creation ex nihilo, 1999, p. 39. Keith Wanser (Ph.D. Condensed Matter Physics), Creation ex nihilo, 1999, p. 39.

Conclusion: Five FactsConclusion: Five Facts1. The earth has not been scientifically proven to

be billions of years old1. The earth has not been scientifically proven to

be billions of years old

2. The Bible teaches a literal 6-day creation

3. Many scientists believe in a literal 6-day creation about 6,000 years ago

4. New evidence from nuclear decay supports a young earth model

5. There are many scientific evidences for a young earth

2. The Bible teaches a literal 6-day creation

3. Many scientists believe in a literal 6-day creation about 6,000 years ago

4. New evidence from nuclear decay supports a young earth model

5. There are many scientific evidences for a young earth

Psalm 118:8Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to

put confidence in man