1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CRIMINAL DIVISION -----------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. DARON D. WINT, Defendant. : : : : : : : Criminal Action No. 2015-CF1-7047 -----------------------------x Washington, D.C. Monday, July 20, 2015 The above-entitled action came on for a Preliminary Hearing before the Honorable RHONDA REID WINSTON, Associate Judge, in Courtroom Number 316, commencing at 11:00 a.m. THIS TRANSCRIPT REPRESENTS THE PRODUCT OF AN OFFICIAL REPORTER, ENGAGED BY THE COURT, WHO HAS PERSONALLY CERTIFIED THAT IT REPRESENTS HER ORIGINAL NOTES AND RECORDS OF TESTIMONY AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE CASE AS RECORDED. APPEARANCES: On behalf of the Government: LAURA BACH, Esquire EMILY MILLER, Esquire Assistant United States Attorneys On behalf of the Defendant: ARTHUR AGO, Esquire NATALIE LAWSON, Esquire Public Defender Service Washington, D.C. MISS LORETTA E. KACZOROWSKI (202) 879-1058 Official Court Reporter
D Wint/ Savopoulos Preliminary Hearing
Sep 04, 2015
Transcript from Preliminary Hearing
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SUPERIOR COURT OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
CRIMINAL DIVISION
-----------------------------x
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
v.
DARON D. WINT,
Defendant.
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Criminal Action No.
2015-CF1-7047
-----------------------------x
Washington, D.C.
Monday, July 20, 2015
The above-entitled action came on for a Preliminary
Hearing before the Honorable RHONDA REID WINSTON, Associate
Judge, in Courtroom Number 316, commencing at 11:00 a.m.
THIS TRANSCRIPT REPRESENTS THE PRODUCT OF
AN OFFICIAL REPORTER, ENGAGED BY THE COURT,
WHO HAS PERSONALLY CERTIFIED THAT IT REPRESENTS
HER ORIGINAL NOTES AND RECORDS OF TESTIMONY AND
PROCEEDINGS OF THE CASE AS RECORDED.
APPEARANCES:
On behalf of the Government:
LAURA BACH, Esquire
EMILY MILLER, Esquire
Assistant United States Attorneys
On behalf of the Defendant:
ARTHUR AGO, Esquire
NATALIE LAWSON, Esquire
Public Defender Service
Washington, D.C.
MISS LORETTA E. KACZOROWSKI (202) 879-1058
Official Court Reporter
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P R O C E E D I N G S
THE DEPUTY CLERK: This is calling on the
preliminary hearing calendar United States versus Daron Wint,
2015-CF1-7047.
MS. BACH: Laura Bach for the United States, Your
Honor, good morning.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MS. MILLER: Good morning, Your Honor. Emily Miller
for the United States.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MR. AGO: Good morning, Your Honor. Arthur Ago on
behalf of Mr. Wint.
THE COURT: Good morning.
MS. LAWSON: Good morning. Natalie Lawson on behalf
of Mr. Wint.
THE COURT: All right, good morning. The defendant
should be on his way out.
Counsel, while he's on his way out could you all
just approach really quickly?
(Bench conference).
THE COURT: I've just been asked to remind all of
you to please speak slowly.
MS. BACH: I've already been cautioned.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. AGO: Your Honor, we've spoken to the marshals
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this morning, normally we ask that the client's restraints be
removed for the purposes of the hearing. The marshals are
reluctant because of the high profile in the case.
(Defendant present).
MR. AGO: I know it's up -- I think it's up to the
Court.
THE COURT: Does he need to be writing or anything?
MR. AGO: We have some photos that we'd like him to
look through and, you know, to the extent --
THE COURT: Okay. I would like to address this.
Marshal.
(Thereupon, the Court and Deputy Marshal conferred;
off the record).
THE COURT: They've been given directions not to do
it.
MR. AGO: Very well.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. BACH: Okay, thank you.
(Close bench conference).
THE COURT: All right, sir, would you state your
name please for the record?
THE DEFENDANT: Daron Wint.
THE COURT: All right. Counsel, this matter is here
for preliminary hearing. Is the Government ready to proceed?
MS. BACH: We are, Your Honor.
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THE COURT: Is the defense ready?
MR. AGO: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. All right, you may call your
witness.
MS. BACH: Your Honor, the Government's calling
Detective Jeff Owens.
THE COURT: Sir, step up, raise your right hand
please.
(Time 11:08 a.m.)
Thereupon,
JEFFREY OWENS,
having been called as a witness for and on behalf of the
Government, and having been first duly sworn by the Deputy
Clerk, was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. BACH:
Q Good morning, sir. Could you please state your full
name and spell your last name for the court reporter?
A Jeffrey Owens, last name is spelled O-W-E-N-S.
Q And where are you employed?
A I'm employed with Metropolitan Police Department
assigned to the major case, cold case, homicide unit.
Q And what is your rank there?
A Detective first grade.
Q And how long have you been a detective first grade
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with the Metropolitan Police Department?
A Since 2002.
Q And how long have you been with the major case unit?
A Since 2003.
Q I want to ask you, sir, what if anything was your
role in the investigation into the murders of the Savopoulos
family and the murder of Veralitsa Figueroa?
A I'm the lead detective assigned to the case.
Q And were you there from day one?
A Yes.
Q I'm going to ask you, sir, did you prepare an
affidavit in support of an arrest warrant in this case?
A Yes, I did.
Q And did you also prepare a supplement to the arrest
warrant affidavit?
A Yes, I did.
Q Have you reviewed those recently?
A Yes.
Q Are they true and accurate?
A Yes, they are.
MS. BACH: I'm going to show defense counsel --
okay, a copy of all the Government's exhibits have already
been provided to the defense.
BY MS. BACH:
Q I'm going to show you, sir, what's been marked as
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Government's exhibits one and two. Can you tell me what is
Government's exhibit one?
A One is the actual arrest warrant complaint and the
affidavit.
Q And what is exhibit two?
A Exhibit two is the addendum to the affidavit.
Q A supplement?
A A supplement, yes.
Q If given the opportunity would you adopt both of
those as part of your testimony here today?
A Yes, I would.
MS. BACH: Your Honor, with the Court's permission
we would seek to introduce Government's exhibits one and two
and we would ask the Court to permit the detective to adopt
those as part of his testimony here today.
THE COURT: Any objection, counsel?
MR. AGO: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Very well.
MS. BACH: And does the Court have the versions with
the numbered paragraphs that I provided previously?
THE COURT: I have unnumbered paragraphs.
MS. BACH: I can provide a copy to the Court, it
just might be easier for us.
THE COURT: All right, thank you.
BY MS. BACH:
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Q Sir, the affidavit in support of the arrest warrant
indicates, um, that it is for a defendant by the name of
Daron Delon Wint. Do you see Mr. Wint here in the courtroom?
A Yes, I do.
Q Could you please identify him by an article of
clothing and also by pointing to him?
A Seated to defense counsel's left with an orange
jumpsuit on.
MS. BACH: Your Honor, I'd ask the record to reflect
the in-court identification of defendant Daron Delon Wint.
THE COURT: Any objection, counsel?
MR. AGO: No.
THE COURT: The record will reflect the
identification.
BY MS. BACH:
Q Detective, I just want to ask you a couple of
follow-up questions about the affidavit in support of arrest
warrant. I want to refer you to paragraph five where it
discusses the causes of death for the four individuals.
Since this affidavit was prepared have you had the
opportunity to have further conversation with the medical
examiner who performed the autopsies in these cases?
A Yes, I have.
Q And based on that conversation did she indicate that
there was an additional cause of death for Veralitsa Figueroa
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and Savvas Savopoulos?
A Yes, the additional cause of death was
strangulation.
Q So in addition to the blunt force and sharp force
trauma?
A That's correct.
Q In paragraph 20 you referred to a delivery from a
Domino's Pizza. Have you had the opportunity to confirm
whether or not Daron Wint ever worked at a Domino's Pizza?
A Yes, I did.
Q And did he ever work at that Domino's Pizza?
A No, he did not.
Q We take a look at paragraph 21, detective, you
indicate that based on your investigation at the time the
pizzas were ordered the decedents were being held against
their will. Is there something primarily you're referring to
that led you to that conclusion?
A Yes, review of the adults' phone records from the
house.
Q And I want to ask you about one call in particular.
At approximately eight o'clock p.m. was a phone call made
from Savvas Savopoulos?
A Yes.
Q And who was that made to?
A It was made to the controller of AIW, American Iron
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Works.
Q And what was Mr. Savopoulos's position within
American Iron Works?
A He was the CEO.
Q And during that call what was requested?
MR. AGO: Your Honor, may I interrupt? Is it
comptroller or controller?
THE WITNESS: Controller.
MR. AGO: Controller.
THE COURT: Control?
MS. BACH: Control.
BY MS. BACH:
Q And what was requested during that phone call?
A Mr. Savvas Savopoulos requested from the controller
for the controller to produce a check for cash that he could
receive the following morning for the amount between 35
thousand, 50 thousand dollars.
Q And was any part of that request unusual?
A The request for specific cash was unusual.
Q I want to also ask you, detective, in that paragraph
there is a reference to specific instructions that were made
to the Domino's delivery person. Can you tell us what were
the instructions that were provided to the Domino's delivery
person for the delivery on May 13th, 2015?
A The instructions were to leave the pizzas on the
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front step of the house.
Q And to leave or to stay?
A No, to leave the pizzas and then to leave.
Q There was a reference to ringing the doorbell. Was
that an instruction that was provided that night?
A No, that instruction was from prior deliveries to
the house, it was not for that night.
Q And it was just still in the system?
A Yeah.
Q I want to refer you to paragraph 24. There are
references in that paragraph to the fact that there was a
CODIS match between the pizza crust that was recovered in the
home and a CODIS hit in the database belonging to Mr. Wint.
Do you know, since the time that this affidavit was prepared,
has a sample been taken from Daron Wint?
A Yeah.
Q And was that a DNA profile from that sample actually
confirmed with the profile from the pizza crust?
A Yeah.
Q And is it your understanding that the result of that
was that there is a single source male profile on the pizza
crust that is consistent with the defendant Daron Wint?
A Yes, consistent with the defendant.
Q Now, did you speak with the DNA analyst?
A Yes, I did.
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Q And when the DNA analyst the profile is consistent
with the defendant is there a layman's terms for that?
A Layman's term is match.
Q And is that the reference in the affidavit?
A Yes.
Q In paragraph 25 there's a discussion about a blue
Porsche that belonged to Amy Savopoulos that was discovered
missing on May 14?
A Yeah.
Q Was that Porsche later recovered?
A Yes, it was.
Q And where was that Porsche or what condition was
that Porsche recovered?
A The Porsche had been set on fire and burned.
Q Were any items of clothing recovered from the
Porsche?
A Yes, it was a neon green construction visibility
vest.
Q I'm sorry?
A Recovered from the vehicle.
Q And was DNA testing done on that vest?
A Yes.
Q And is -- did you speak with the analyst about that
testing?
A Yes, I did.
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Q And did she determine that there was a partial DNA
profile from that vest that consisted of a mixture of at
least three people?
A Yes, three people, two major contributors, one to
decedent Savvas Savopoulos, and the other two to the
defendant Daron Wint.
Q So the defendant Daron Wint and Savvas Savopoulos,
their profiles are consistent with the DNA that was recovered
from the vest?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q The 40 thousand dollars that's discussed throughout
the affidavit have you or did you have the opportunity to
learn in what denomination that 40 thousand dollars was
provided from the bank?
A All one-hundred-dollar bills, four hundreds,
one-hundred-dollar bills.
Q And over the course of this investigation can you
tell us approximately how much money has been recovered
either directly from defendant Wint or in close association
within?
A In excess of 30 thousand dollars.
Q So I want to speak with you first, sir, on May 20th,
did you go to the home of Dennis Wint?
A Yes.
Q And Dennis Wint is what to Daron Wint?
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A Daron Wint's father.
Q And were there -- were you provided with information
that two bags of Daron Wint's belongings were left at the
home?
A Yes.
Q And within those two bags were there a number of
papers that were recovered?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q I'm showing you what's been marked as Government's
exhibit three, a copy of which has been provided to the
defense. Government's exhibit three a photograph of some of
the papers that were recovered?
A Yes, it is.
Q Okay, and what is the main -- the large piece of
paper, the eight and a half by 11 piece of paper, what is
that?
A It's a retainer agreement for an attorney.
Q For an immigration law firm?
A Yes.
Q And attached to that is there a receipt?
A Yes, there is.
Q And what is the date of the receipt?
A The receipt's dated May 16, 2015.
Q And what is the amount for?
A The amount is one thousand one hundred dollars.
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Q And does the receipt indicate in what form that
money was provided by Daron Wint?
A Provided in cash for legal fees.
MS. BACH: Your Honor, we would seek to introduce
Government's exhibit three.
THE COURT: Any objection? It will be received.
(Thereupon, Government's Exhibit Number
Three was received into evidence).
MS. BACH: I'll pass a copy up to the Court.
BY MS. BACH:
Q Sir, when Mr. Wint was arrested on May 21st, how was
he traveling?
A He was traveling in a small four-door compact car.
Q Within that small four-door compact car were any
money orders recovered?
A Yes.
Q Approximately how much in money orders?
A Approximately 10 thousand dollars in money orders.
Q Was there a second vehicle that was traveling with
Mr. Wint?
A Yes, there was a box truck traveling in concert with
the small compact car.
Q Within that box truck was any cash recovered?
A In excess of 10 thousand dollars was recovered in
cash.
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Q From the box truck?
A No, I'm sorry. In excess of seven thousand dollars,
I'm sorry.
Q Okay, and of that cash primarily what denomination
was the seven thousand dollars?
A Primarily all one-hundred-dollar bills.
Q Additionally, from the box truck was over 13
thousand dollars recovered in money orders?
A Yes.
Q And, so, added up is that where you came up with the
30 thousand dollars?
A In excess of 30, yeah.
MS. BACH: Court's indulgence. I have nothing
further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Cross-examination, counsel.
MR. AGO: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. AGO:
Q Good morning, detective.
A Good morning, sir.
Q Detective, besides the Government's one,
Government's two, and nine pictures of notes that you
provided to the Government either this morning or in
preparation for this hearing, did you take any other notes or
fill in any other documents related to your investigation in
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this case?
A All of the reports and all of the notes I took I
provided to the Government.
Q Um, did you speak to any other police officers with
regards to this case?
A Yes.
Q And during those conversations were those police
officers writing anything down or typing anything?
A In reference to what myself and that detective or
police officer was talking about?
Q Yes.
A No.
Q Have you been to the grand jury?
A Have I testified before the grand jury?
Q Yes.
A No.
Q Detective, I want to turn your attention to a person
identified in your affidavit as W-1. Did you speak to W-1
directly?
A No.
Q Did you speak to -- I take it the metropolitan
police have spoken to W-1?
A Yes.
Q And did you speak to the police officers or
detectives who spoke to W-1?
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A Yes.
Q Okay.
And is your characterization of what W-1, um, told
in the affidavit based on those conversations with the police
or those detectives?
A Yes.
Q And was W-1's -- was any of W-1's interviews by MPD
videotaped or recorded?
A Yeah.
Q Did you view those videotapes or listen to those
recordings?
A No.
Q Did W-1 make himself known to the police before he
spoke to the police or did the police have to go out and get
him? In other words, how did the police come across W-1?
A W-1 returned -- W-1 went up to the scene near 31 --
3201 Woodland and he made himself known to the police at that
point.
Q What date and time was this?
A It was the same day, May 14.
Q And do you know the time?
A I don't recall the exact time.
Q And did -- how did W-1 make himself known to the
police? What did he say when he went up to 3201?
A If I remember correctly his car was parked within
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the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made
himself known to the police at that point.
Q So, just to be clear my questions are all based on
your conversations with the officers who spoke directly with
W-1?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
And so prior to the police putting up the tape W-1
returned to the area of 3201 and parked his car; is that
correct?
A Well, at some point the tape was put up and W-1's
car was within the tape.
Q Okay.
So in other words what I'm saying is the tape wasn't
up and then W-1 went through the tape to park the car, the
car was there before the tape went up?
A I believe so, yeah.
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he
said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I
want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he
made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did
he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos
family?
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A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.
Q And did the police speak with W-1 on the scene other
than that brief conversation that you just described?
A Other than learning who he was and identifying him,
giving him to a detective for a more formal interview, no,
not beyond that, no.
Q At that moment when you gave him -- when the police
gave him to a detective for a more formal interview, do you
know who that detective was?
A Yeah.
Q Who was it?
A Detective Todd Williams.
Q Um, did -- did Detective Williams take W-1 from the
scene to a police station or a district at that point?
A Well, let me correct my statement. I know Detective
Todd Williams interviewed him. I can't tell you if he's the
one that actually drove W-1 to the police station for the
interview.
Q Okay.
Is it at that moment, though, that W-1 was
transported to the police station for the interview?
A Yeah.
Q This was at 2-D?
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A No.
Q This was at homicide?
A Yeah, he went to the homicide office.
Q Okay.
And when W-1 was transported I take it also that he
was not permitted at that moment to take his car?
A No, he wasn't.
Q His car is a green BMW with a green -- I'm sorry,
with a mat paint finish?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. AGO: There is evidence that's --
THE COURT: Approach.
(Bench conference).
THE COURT: What is the -- what is the relevance?
MR. AGO: The relevance is that there's evidence
that the police seized from the BMW -- let me back up. There
are five or six cars, maybe even seven that are described in
this case. And so there's different pieces of evidence that
are taken from several of those cars. Now I guess I could
identify it as W-1's car but --
THE COURT: Are you suggesting that evidence, other
evidence was taken from this green BMW?
MR. AGO: Yes.
THE COURT: You dispute that, counsel?
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MS. BACH: Actually I'm not really sure what
evidence he's referring to that would be relevant to this
hearing and I would just ask, but to the extent that this
individual's already been vilified in the media I would just
ask that we refer to it as W-1's car.
THE COURT: Well, you have a problem referring to it
as -- as his car?
MR. AGO: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. That's fine.
(Close bench conference).
THE COURT: Just rephrase, counsel.
MR. AGO: Yes, Your Honor.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Detective, when I -- when I say W-1's car you know
what vehicle I'm talking about?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
Did the police secure -- I shouldn't use the word
secure. Did the police make certain that W's [sic] car was
not touched or moved in any way after W-1 was transported to
homicide?
A I don't really understand the question.
Q In other words, the police didn't allow anyone to
enter W-1's car after W-1 -- after W-1 identified which car
was his --
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A Yes.
Q -- the police didn't allow anyone to enter that car;
is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
And at some point on the 14th, the following day,
the police had the car towed and searched the car; is that
right?
A You said on the 14th, the following day?
Q I'm sorry, the 15th, the following day.
A The vehicle was taken in to police custody, yeah.
Q Okay.
And between the time that W-1 identified his car and
when it was taken into police custody the car wasn't entered
at any point; is that correct?
A No.
Q All right.
I'm sorry, I'm correct?
A If I understand your question you're correct.
Q Okay.
And, um, at some point W-1 was made aware that he
was a suspect in this case, correct?
A I wouldn't use that word suspect.
Q W-1 was told by the police that they believed he had
more involvement in this case than he initially described; is
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that correct?
A W-1 was told that he had more information that he
was initially given, that's correct.
Q Did this occur -- did what you just say occur during
that initial interview with W-1 involving Detective Williams
at homicide?
A Yeah.
Q How long after the interview started, after the two
of them started speaking, did Detective Williams say that to
W-1?
A I can't give you the exact time.
Q At the time of this interview did W-1 have any deals
or agreements with the police or the Government?
A No.
Q Has W-1 entered into any deals or agreements with
the police or the Government?
A No.
Q When did -- is it your understanding that W-1 began
working with, um, Mr. Savopoulos in around March, 2015?
MS. BACH: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Counsel, you wish to approach unless you
ask your next question?
MR. AGO: I'll -- let me -- I'll move on, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Thank you.
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BY MR. AGO:
Q Um, it's your understanding that W -- based on your
affidavit, and based on discussing W-1's statements with
other police officers, it is your understanding that W-1 was
employed by, um, Mr. Savopoulos and/or American Iron Works;
is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Um, actually let me ask you, was he employed by
American Iron Works or was he employed directly by Mr.
Savopoulos?
A It's my understanding it's a combination of the two.
Mr. Savopoulos was CEO, he worked for him, he worked for
American Iron Works.
Q His job, though, was to drive Mr. Savopoulos to and
from work; is that correct?
A And run additional errands, that's correct.
Q And there was no other -- nothing else described to
you as far as his job was concerned, correct?
A Other than driving and running errands, no.
Q And, so did he work with anyone directly at American
Iron Works or was it just Mr. Savopoulos?
A Just Mr. Savopoulos.
Q Did W-1 have any access to 3201 Woodland Drive?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
BY MR. AGO:
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Q Keys or alarm --
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. AGO:
Q -- combination, anything like that?
A No.
Q Did he have access to that garage at 3201?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Based on the affidavit,
counsel.
MS. BACH: Can we just narrow the time?
THE COURT: Rephrase it slightly, counsel.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Did he -- did he have independent access, that's my
question? In other words, was he able to enter that garage?
A You mean separate from the day that's talked about
in the affidavit?
Q Let me clarify. Did he have a code or a key to
enter either the home or the garage all the way up until May
14th?
A No.
Q Did W-1 tell the police when he arrived on May 14th
that he was able to enter the garage because the garage was
open?
A Yes, that's my understanding.
Q Did the delivery person from Domino's describe the
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garage as being open the night --
THE COURT: Counsel, can you -- can you rephrase to
specify open at -- you mean open or unlocked?
MR. AGO: Yes, thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. AGO:
Q When I say open for the garage was the door up or
was it -- was the door up?
A My understanding the garage was open, door up.
Q Did the delivery person describe the garage having
the door up from the night before when he delivered the pizza
at the 3201?
A He did not.
Q Did anyone ask? Did any police officer ask?
A Not to my recollection.
Q All right.
Now, you describe in your affidavit that W-1
provided different versions of how he communicated with Mr.
Savopoulos about money and how that money was collected and
how that money was delivered. And I want to ask -- I want to
ask you about that. The first version that he gave, and
please correct me if this version is inaccurate, is that he
received a call on the morning of Thursday, May 14th, from
Mr. Savopoulos, that he was told to go to American Iron Works
to pick up a package, that he went to American Iron Works and
met with an employee there, and that he went with that
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employee to a bank, and saw that employee receive a manila
envelope from the bank manager?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Refer to the paragraph please, counsel.
MR. AGO: Yes, Your Honor. Well, it's jumbled is
the problem but I can tell you it is --
THE COURT: I see, nine and 10, nine and 10.
You may answer the question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q And that he went with the bank manager, I'm sorry,
he went to a bank with that employee and received an
envelope, a manila envelope. Strike that.
That the employee received a manila envelope from
the bank manager and that bank -- and that employee then gave
the manila envelope to W-1, was that the first version he
provided to police as far as getting communication from Mr.
Savopoulos and how he received a package?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
In terms of delivering that package during that
first -- that first version that W-1 gave to the police, he
indicated that, he meaning W-1, went into the garage at 3201,
found a key to a red sports car, unlocked the car, placed the
manila envelope on a seat of the car, locked the car, and
closed the garage door; is that correct?
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A Yes.
Q Now, W-1 subsequently provided a different version
of those events to the police; is that right?
A Yes.
Q What precipitated the change in his story about all
of that?
A The continued questioning about the events that took
place.
Q Was W-1 confronted with anything that -- that caused
him to change his story?
A He was just confronted with the information he was
provided.
Q At that point, though, in Detective Williams'
conversation with W-1 all they had about -- all the police
had in terms of information about money from the bank, and
delivery of that money, was based on W-1; is that -- was that
right?
A At that point, yeah.
Q Okay.
And, so it was just police asking him for further
details that caused him to change his story?
A Yeah.
Q At some point he was confronted with a text message;
is that right?
A That's true.
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Q And did that confrontation, the text message, occur
before or after he changed his story?
A That occurred after he changed. He initially
changed and then he was confronted and he changed again and
some facts.
Q Okay.
What he changed in terms of receiving a
communication from Mr. Savopoulos was instead of the first
communication occurring in the form of a phone call on
Thursday morning, May 14th, it actually was a text on
Wednesday evening May 13th; is that correct?
A Yeah.
Q And do you know the time of that text?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, I'm going to object.
THE WITNESS: I can't recall exactly.
THE COURT: Overruled.
THE WITNESS: I know it was after seven. Seven p.m.
that is.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Seven p.m. on May 13th; is that right?
A Yeah.
Q Did you view that text?
A Yes.
Q I'm sorry?
A Yes.
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Q And you don't know, as you -- you don't know as you
sit here today whether it was after 9:14 p.m., do you?
A It was before 9:14 p.m.
Q It was before 9:14 p.m.
And, um, the second detail that he changed, that W-1
changed concerning his version of events, was that, um, he,
instead of being told to go to American Iron Works to pick up
a package, he was told to go to American Iron Works to meet
an employee and then go pick up a package; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q Um, and then he changed another version which was
that the employee didn't receive a manila envelope from the
bank manager but rather that the bank manager or whoever it
was at the bank provided the employee with cash; is that
right?
A That's correct.
Q And, um, this occurred at approximately nine --
well, strike that. I'll come back to that.
The employee, according to W-1, then took the money
from his pockets and put it in W-1's bag; is that right?
A That's correct.
Q Now W-1 described his bag as a red bag; is that
right?
A Yeah.
Q At some point W-1 texted a photograph of money
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inside of a red bag to a witness numbered as W-2; is that
right?
A Yeah.
Q W-1 and W-2 have a romantic, or at least at that
point, had a romantic relationship with one another; is that
right?
A That's my understanding, yeah.
Q Okay.
You have seen that text; is that right?
A Yes.
Q And that text is a picture of two bundles of what
appear to be stacks of one-hundred-dollar bills; is that
right?
A That's correct.
Q And they are inside of a bag that is lined with red
cloth or something like that, right?
A Yeah.
Q And that text was sent from W-1 to W-2 at about 9:00
a.m.; is that right?
A Yes.
Q On -- on May 14?
A That is correct.
Q Was W-1 confronted with the location -- well, strike
that, let me back up.
The employee that gave the cash to W-1 gave four
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stacks of one-hundred-dollar bills to W-1, put that,
according to the employee, gave that to W-1; is that right?
A That is correct.
Q Was W-1 confronted with the location of the other
two stacks of one-hundred-dollar bills?
A Yes.
Q What was W-1's response -- was that by Detective
Williams, that confrontation?
A The best of my knowledge, yeah.
Q What was W-1's response to Detective Williams when
Detective Williams asked him about the location of the other
two stacks of one-hundred-dollar bills?
A W-1 stated it delivered all four stacks of money.
Q He didn't -- W-1 didn't tell Detective Williams
where the other two were that were missing from the
photograph at the moment he took the photograph, though; is
that correct?
A Specifically not to my knowledge.
Q And there was no further conversation about that
between W-1 and Detective Williams?
A Not that I recall.
Q And the only person at this stage who can speak to
whether or not W-1 delivered all four stacks of
one-hundred-dollar bills is W-1 himself?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
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THE COURT: You may answer that yes or no, sir.
THE WITNESS: Repeat the question please.
BY MR. AGO:
Q In other words, the police are relying on the
statements of W-1 for the information that W-1 delivered all
four stacks of one-hundred-dollar bills?
A Yes.
Q And no other source?
A Not at this time, no.
Q Um, what W-1 then told the police in terms of a
different version of events was that he placed the money from
the bag in the manila envelope -- into a manila envelope that
he had in his car, correct?
A That was in -- repeat the question.
Q Yes. W-1 had the money in a bag with red lining,
and moved that money into a manila envelope and that manila
envelope was something that he had taken from his own car?
A That was my recollection, manila envelope was in the
red sports car.
Q Was in the red sports car?
A Right.
Q Okay.
Um, detective, do you still have Government's one up
there?
A Yeah.
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Q Could you look at paragraph 15 please at the bottom
of page four? First sentence of that paragraph.
A Yes, first sentence.
Q Okay, do you see where at the end of that sentence
it says that, um, that W-1 essentially placed the money in a
red bag -- I'm sorry, strike that.
W-1, when it arrived at Mr. Savopoulos's garage, it
placed the money inside a manila envelope that was in its
car.
A Yes, you're correct.
Q Okay.
So the envelope was something that W-1 had in his
own car, correct?
A Yes.
Q And he then told the police that, um, the car was
unlocked?
A That's correct.
Q Um, you have, or the police have searched W-1's car,
correct?
A I'm sorry?
Q The police have searched W-1's car, correct?
A Yes.
Q And the police never recovered any -- never found
any bag containing red lining in that car; is that correct?
A Not to my knowledge, no.
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Q No red bag at all?
A No.
Q The only thing in terms of a bag recovered from
W-1's car was a black backpack, correct?
A Yes.
Q Have you asked W-1 what happened to the red bag?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: You can answer that yes or no.
THE WITNESS: No.
BY MR. AGO:
Q When I say you, I mean the police, not you
personally. So your answer the same?
A Yeah.
Q The text that W-1 received on the night of May 13th,
um, did -- you viewed that text; is that right? The text
from Mr. Savopoulos on the night of May 13th is what I'm
talking about.
A No, I did not review the text myself, I was told
about the text.
Q Okay, what were you told that the text said?
A It was instructions for W-1 to pick up a package and
bring it to the Savopoulos house.
Q And there was a return text from W-1 that same night
acknowledging that he had received the initial text from Mr.
Savopoulos; is that right?
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A Yes.
Q Did you review that text or were you just told about
it?
A I was told.
Q Um, W-1 and the employee that W-1 was told to meet
up with, those two people arrived at a Bank of America in
Hyattsville on May 14th at about 9:38 a.m.; is that right?
A I know it was around nine, approximately nine
o'clock; I'm not going to say 9:30.
Q You've reviewed the Bank of America footage from
that day and around that time, right, detective?
A Some of it, yeah.
Q Okay.
And looking at that footage would refresh your
recollection as to when the employee and -- and W-1 arrived
at the bank?
A The exact time, yeah.
Q Okay.
MR. AGO: Your Honor, we have this, it is easier for
us to do it with the screen than it is to -- to pass up and
down, Government doesn't seem to have an objection.
THE COURT: You have any objection, counsel?
MS. BACH: No, that's fine.
THE COURT: Very well. All right, you want to mark
that? For identification.
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MR. AGO: Yes, we're going to mark this as defense
one. I believe that that's on but I'm not --
THE COURT: Is it on?
MR. AGO: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
MS. BACH: It's got to go through there, I'm sorry.
MR. AGO: I apologize.
THE COURT: Counsel, would it -- would it make sense
to just take five minutes?
MR. AGO: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Let's take five minutes.
Sir, you're excused, you're not to discuss your
testimony with any other person during the recess.
THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor.
(Thereupon, the proceedings were recessed at 11:49
a.m.)
(Thereupon, the proceedings were reconvened at 11:57
a.m.)
THE DEPUTY CLERK: Recalling the matter of United
States versus Daron Wint, 2015-CF1-7047.
THE COURT: All right, note the presence of all
counsel; the defendant is being brought into the courtroom.
(Defendant present).
THE COURT: Court notes the presence of the
defendant.
All right, counsel, you may proceed.
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MR. AGO: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Detective, we were discussing the fact that your
recollection would be refreshed by seeing the video of the
Bank of America as to the time of this transaction. Correct?
A Yes, you were talking about the entrance, entering
the bank.
Q Yes. Well, let me -- let me put it this way, um,
you remember approximately what time, um, the employee
received the money; is that correct? I mean I'm sorry, you
don't remember the exact time that the employee received the
money from the bank; is that correct?
A It was approximately around nine o'clock.
Q Okay.
Let me -- but what you were able to glean from that,
I'm sorry, you estimated that time based on your viewing of
the video; is that right?
A Well, video, the time the bank opens and --
Q Okay, so let me show you what's been marked as
defense one please. So at this stage -- if you could pause
it, Miss Lawson -- at this stage this is the employee in the
short-sleeved, buttoned-down shirt, correct?
A Yeah.
Q And that is W-1 with the light-colored sunglasses
over the employee's left shoulder, correct?
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A Yeah.
Q And the timestamp on this is 9:50 -- 9:50 a.m. and
40 seconds; is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Is it all right if I get up?
THE COURT: Yes, you may step down.
BY MR. AGO:
Q On May 14th, 2015?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
And that is the approximate time that the employee
and Mr. Wallace -- the employee and -- the employee and W-1
arrived at the bank before 9:50 a.m., and received the money
around that time; is that correct?
A Arrived -- arrived in the bank before that time --
Q Yes.
A -- and it looks like received the money at that
time.
Q Okay, and they departed the bank at about, I believe
it is 9:52 or 9:53; is that correct?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
And, um, did you -- strike that.
Did the police confront W-1 on how it was that he
had taken a photo of two bundles of money and sent that to
W-2 at 9:00 a.m. when he didn't receive the money until 9:50
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or 9:51 a.m.?
A I don't remember specifically but obviously the time
is wrong.
Q Why do you say obviously the time is wrong?
A Because the bank doesn't open until nine, and see,
they don't obtain the money until the footage says 9:50.
Q But you saw the text, right?
A I saw.
Q And the text, and I'm talking about the text from
W-1 to W-2, right?
A Yes.
Q And that that text is about 9:00 a.m.?
A Correct.
Q Which predates when W-1 received the money, right?
A That is an earlier timestamp, yeah.
Q And you didn't confront W-1 as to how he had taken
that photograph of money before he even received any money
from the employee?
A I myself had never spoken to W-1.
Q The police didn't confront W-1 about that
discrepancy?
A Sitting here right now I can't remember whether they
have or they haven't.
Q Okay, and you don't -- you don't have -- that would
be a important fact to remember, right?
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A Yes, yes.
Q And if that discrepancy had been made aware to you
you would have explored that, correct? As the lead
detective, right?
A In reference to the timestamp, yes, of course.
Q Okay.
But you didn't explore that, correct?
A Myself, no.
Q Okay, because the discrepancy wasn't made aware to
you, right?
A Sitting here right now as I stated I don't recall
that, no.
Q Um, did, um, at some point at approximately 10:20 on
May 14th W-1 texted Mr. Savopoulos that he had received --
that W-1 had received the package; is that right?
A Yes.
Q And did you view that text?
A No, I was told about the text.
Q Okay.
And were there any phone calls made between W-1 and
Mr. Savopoulos other than that -- strike that.
Were there any phone calls made between W-1 and Mr.
Savopoulos on the morning of May 14th?
A Yes.
Q And what phone call was that?
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A W-1 called when he was approximately 10 minutes away
from the Savopoulos home.
Q Okay, so that call was -- is different from the
text?
A Yes.
Q And what was the text that you were -- that you were
told about? What did that say?
A That he was on the way, received the money.
Q Okay.
A Received the package.
Q Received the package, and that was before the phone
call that --
A Correct.
Q -- witness described?
A Correct.
Q Were there any other phone calls between W-1 and Mr.
Savopoulos other than what you described on the morning of
May 14th?
A No.
Q Did you review any records of -- phone records or
text records between Mr. Savopoulos's phone and W-1's phone?
A Yes.
Q For May 14. Okay.
And you only recall the one text and the one phone
call that you just described; is that right?
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A The best of my recollection, that's correct.
Q Okay, May 13th, were there any -- there was a
description from W-1 that he had received a text from Mr.
Savopoulos on the night of May 13th, and he responded to that
text also by text, and we discussed that earlier, do you
remember that?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
Other than those two texts, the one from Mr.
Savopoulos to W-1 and the one from W-1 in return to Mr.
Savopoulos, any other texts from the night of May 13th that
you reviewed?
A Between W-1 and Mr. Savopoulos?
Q Yes.
A No.
Q Any phone calls, um, between W-1 and Mr. Savopoulos,
in either direction, on the night of May 13?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Did any of the texts specify a dollar amount, um, in
terms of the delivery of the package or picking up the
package, did any text specify this is how much is to be
delivered?
A To best of my recollection, no, it did not specify
dollar amount.
Q It just talked about a package?
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A That's correct.
Q And it didn't say -- none of the texts talked about
money; is that right?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
Did W-1 express any sort of surprise after it
received -- after it had received the text about picking up a
package and after going to the bank with the employee, any
sort of surprise that it then received, W-1 then received 40
thousand dollars in cash from the employee?
A Repeat the question.
Q In other words, W-1 was told only to pick up a
package, either by text or by phone; is that right?
A Correct.
Q And when W-1 went to pick up that package, as W-1
described, it turned out to be four bundles of 10 thousand
dollars in cash, each bundle, correct?
A Correct.
Q And at some point in the parking lot of that Bank of
America the American Iron Works employee gave those four
bundles to W-1; is that right?
A Correct.
Q And W-1 didn't express any sort of surprise to the
police that that's in fact what -- in other words, he was
just told to pick up a package and he gets 40 thousand
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dollars in cash?
A Are you -- you're asking if W-1 was surprised when
he discovered it was money?
Q Yes.
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Okay, he was?
A Yes.
Q Did he express any sort of concern?
A I don't recall that.
Q Okay.
W-1 saw that it was money when he was in the bank;
is that right?
A Yes.
Q In other words, he was standing right next to that
employee when the cash was actually given to him?
A Yeah.
Q And you recall him looking over the employee's
shoulder and watching the bank manager or whoever it is from
the bank give that money to the employee?
A I mean I recall what was in the still photos, yes.
Q Okay.
A And he was standing that close, yes.
Q And he actually watched the transaction?
A He could see the money, correct.
Q Okay.
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So when W-1 -- strike that.
You interviewed the employee that appeared in that
video; is that right? Or the police interviewed the
employee; is that right, detective?
A Yes.
Q Did you yourself do it or did another police
officer?
A I myself interviewed.
Q The employee describe anything that is inconsistent
with W-1's ultimate version of how he received the money?
A No.
Q And, um, the employee indicated to you that he had
spoken to Mr. Savopoulos about the money; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And there was at least one phone call between Mr.
Savopoulos and the employee; is that right?
A That's correct.
Q And the employee told you that Mr. Savopoulos had
said to the employee that the cash was for an auction for
equipment; is that right?
A Yes.
Q Um, now, when -- going back to W-1, when W-1 arrived
at 3201 Woodland Drive, did W-1 tell the police that he saw
all of the Savopoulos cars either in the driveway, in the
garage or on the street near 3201?
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A Specifically I don't recall that.
Q When the police arrived at 3201 on the afternoon of
May 14th, one of the Savopoulos cars was missing; is that
correct? The blue Porsche; is that right?
A That's correct.
Q The other cars that belonged to the Savopoulos
family were all at the home; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And we're talking about a white Range Rover, gray or
brown Land Rover, a red Audi, and a red Mosler; is that
right?
A That is correct.
Q And, um, as far as you know none of them had been
moved between that morning -- strike that, strike that.
When W arrived -- W-1 arrived at 3201, according to
W-1, he did not make any effort to find Mr. Savopoulos and
ask him if he needed a ride to work; is that correct?
THE COURT: When he arrived which -- which time? On
the 14th?
You may answer that question.
THE WITNESS: Repeat the question please.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Yes, W-1, when he got to 3201 to deliver this money,
he didn't try to contact Mr. Savopoulos and ask him if he
needed a ride to work?
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A No.
Q Okay.
W-1 is Mr. Savopoulos's driver, though, right?
A That's correct.
Q Did anybody confront W-1 as to why he didn't attempt
to contact or contact Mr. Savopoulos asking him if he, Mr.
Savopoulos, needed a ride to work?
A W-1 was specific about the instructions that his
employer boss had given him, so he followed those
instructions. And the instructions were not to pick him up,
instructions were to drop the package off.
Q Well, there was no specific instruction that said
don't pick me up, right?
A That wasn't in the instructions.
Q Right.
A As far as picking up or not picking up.
Q He was just to drop the package off?
A Right.
Q Or words to that effect?
A Right.
Q But he was silent as to whether or not Mr.
Savopoulos needed a ride, right?
A Who are you speaking of, who was silent?
Q The instructions from Mr. Savopoulos to W-1, there
was no instructions one way or the other?
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A In reference to picking Mr. Savopoulos up? That's
correct, there was no instruction one way or the another.
Q And W-1 didn't inquire, though, that's my question,
right? W-1 didn't say, now that I'm here, now that I've
delivered the package, do you need a ride to work? I'm at
your house.
A Best of my knowledge, no, he did not.
Q Okay.
And W-1 then went from the home, according W-1, to
Chantilly; is that right?
A Correct.
Q Any stops along the way according to W-1?
A Best of my recollection, no.
Q Okay, did he go to Chantilly to the American Iron
Works office in Chantilly or to the -- let me back up.
Your understanding in terms of this investigation is
that at some point in the -- in the weeks or so, days or so
after May 13th, Mr. Savopoulos had planned to open a martial
arts studio or gymnasium in Chantilly, Virginia, correct?
A Correct.
Q Did W-1 go from 3201 to the American Iron Works
office in Chantilly or to the martial arts studio in
Chantilly?
A To the martial arts studio, they refer to it as the
dojo, that's where he respond.
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Q Okay.
Did you confirm W-1's -- did the police confirm
W-1's presence at the dojo?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection, I'd ask to
approach.
THE COURT: You may approach.
(Bench conference).
THE COURT: So the question was whether or not the
police tried to confirm whether W-1 went to the dojo?
MS. BACH: Right, Your Honor.
THE COURT: What's the objection?
MS. BACH: This is our point, we think this goes
beyond what is relevant here at the preliminary hearing.
There is nothing to indicate that only one person was
involved in this crime.
Now, what I intend to ask this detective on redirect
is have you confirmed his whereabouts? Yes, but I don't
think that he needs to specify for the defense exactly how we
have confirmed that they're Winfield defendant if that's what
he is is not truly a Winfield defendant.
So my point is even if W-1 is completely involved in
this that doesn't rule out the defendant. And so we think
this goes beyond the probable cause finding that this Court
needs to make and we think that they're just trying to learn
basically the steps that we've taken thus far in the
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investigation to prove W-1's credibility.
MR. AGO: W-1 is a crucial witness in this case,
Your Honor, and if we can -- there are statements that W-1's
made to the police, and what we are trying to do is explore
W-1's credibility. And I think we're allowed to do that.
It's not a Winfield -- we're not --
THE COURT: He told him he went to the dojo, and
your question is whether or not they confirmed that. Is that
the only question you're going to have about that? Because
I'll allow that but that's it. I mean you're not going to go
dojo to somewhere else to somewhere else. Okay. So I'll
allow that.
MS. BACH: Thank you.
THE COURT: To that question.
MS. BACH: Thank you.
(Close bench conference).
THE COURT: You may ask that question.
MR. AGO: Thank you, Your Honor. I have a more
general question, Your Honor.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Detective, did you confirm W-1's presence in or near
Chantilly, Virginia, um, after approximately 10:30 in the
morning on May 14th, 2015?
A Yes.
Q And when did W-1 leave Chantilly, Virginia, that
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day?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Did W-1 -- let me ask this, W-1 leave that --
Chantilly, Virginia, before 1 p.m. on May 14 or 1:30 p.m. on
May 14 when the fire department received a call to report to
3201?
A My understanding after.
Q Now -- and that is based on W-1 or other sources?
A Both.
Q Let me -- let me ask this, the garage at 3201, is
that -- is that a secure garage, in other words, does it need
-- can it be locked? Let me ask you that.
A Best of my knowledge, yeah.
Q At some point on May 14th, according to your
affidavit, W-1 sent a text to Mrs. Savopoulos; is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q And that text was to the effect of inquiring whether
she was okay, and if so that she needed to get home because
her house was on fire; is that right?
A Where are you talking about in the affidavit?
Q Brief indulgence. Maybe it's not in the affidavit,
detective. I'm sorry, detective, it's not in the affidavit
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but that was -- that's part of your investigation. I
apologize for that. Right?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Overruled to that.
You may answer that question.
THE WITNESS: Repeat the question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Yes, W-1 sent -- I'm sorry, when did -- when did W-1
send that text to Amy Savopoulos?
A What are you asking, when?
Q When, what time?
A You mean the exact time?
Q Approximately or exact if you know, approximately if
you don't.
A I can't approximate.
Q Um, did W-1 and -- I'm sorry, Detective Williams
asked W-1 about that text; is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And W-1 explained to Detective Williams that he had
received a phone call from American Iron Works informing him
that the Savopoulos house was on fire; is that right?
A Repeat that question.
Q Yes. W-1 sent a text to Amy Savopoulos that her
house was on fire, and Detective Williams asked about how W-1
had gotten that information, right? And that W-1 then said
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that he, W-1, had gotten a call from American Iron Works
telling him that the house was on fire, that's how he knew to
text Mrs. Savopoulos about the house being on fire, right?
A No, I don't recall that's the way it happened, I
don't recall.
Q Okay.
How did W-1 learn that 3201 was on fire?
A It's my understanding he learned from other workers
at the dojo, best of my recollection.
Q Did you confirm that those other workers had
informed W-1 that the house was on fire, or the police
rather, not just you?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
And -- and they said -- they confirmed that they had
told W-1 that the house was on fire?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. He's already answered the
question. Ask your next question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Why did -- did the police confront W-1 as to why --
strike that.
Did W-1 attempt to contact Mr. Savopoulos about his
house being on fire?
A Not to my knowledge.
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Q Did you confront W-1 about why he didn't do that and
he went instead to Mrs. Savopoulos?
A I did not.
Q Or did anyone in the police department?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Now, um, in searching W-1's car, um, the police
recovered a black backpack from the car, correct?
A Yes.
Q And in that backpack was W-1's passport and
checkbook; is that correct?
A Best of my recollection.
Q Did any police officer ask W-1 what he was doing
with his passport and checkbook in the car?
A Specifically, I don't recall.
Q Did W-1 volunteer a reason why he was carrying a
passport and checkbook to the police?
A I don't recall that specific.
Q Also inside that black backpack was the registration
to Mr. Savopoulos's Mosler; is that right?
A I don't recall that.
Q You've reviewed the, um, search warrants in this
case as the lead detective, right?
A The affidavits?
Q Yes.
A Yeah.
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Q And the returns on those affidavits, correct?
A I haven't reviewed all the returns, no.
Q Looking at the return on the search of -- of the --
of W-1's car would refresh your recollection as to whether or
not, um, the Mosler registration was in that backpack,
correct?
A If it's on there, yes.
MR. AGO: I'm going to have this marked as defense
two, Your Honor.
MS. BACH: Can we just approach?
(Bench conference).
THE COURT: Is it in there? Does it refer to it?
MS. BACH: No, it does, I just want the defense to
be aware and the Court that I am 99 percent positive based on
the photograph that I've seen is what this is is a
registration renewal letter from the MB not an actual
registration card.
So it doesn't -- he's got every right to ask the
question but I just want him to know that I'm 99 percent
certain that's what it is. I will print out a copy and bring
it up, but I just didn't want to feel like you're being blind
sided, it's a renewal.
MR. AGO: Thank you.
(Close bench conference).
MR. AGO: May I approach, Your Honor?
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THE COURT: Yes.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Detective, I'm showing you what's been marked as
defense two. If you would look at -- you recognize this,
first of all, as the return on the search of the W-1's car,
correct?
A Give me a minute please.
Q If you want I can bring you the affidavit as well.
A Yes.
Q Okay.
Now, do you see the entry marked G7.5?
A Yes.
Q That lists the registration for the Mosler, right?
That entry.
A Yes.
Q And that was located inside G7 above which is the
black backpack?
A Correct.
Q Okay.
Now, um, detective, you didn't see that document,
right? What's described as the registration, did you?
A Did I see the actual registration? No.
Q Or a photocopy of it?
A No.
Q Are you aware of whether or not it's the actual
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registration or a renewal letter? Do you know one way or the
other?
A I can't say.
Q Okay.
But regardless it's your understanding it's some
paperwork that is associated with Mr. Savopoulos's red
Mosler, right?
A It says on the return registration.
Q Okay.
And that red Mosler, um, is valued at several
hundred thousand dollars, right?
A Best of my understanding, yes.
Q Okay.
And, um, some of the models of Moslers run upwards
of seven hundred thousand dollars in terms of value; is that
right?
A Well, what I've learned I can tell you in excess of
three hundred thousand.
Q Okay.
Did anyone confront W-1 as to why he had in his
backpack paperwork associated with Mr. Savopoulos's red
Mosler?
A I can't say that, no.
Q And just to be clear, um, detective, the red lined
bag in the text from W-1 to W-2, that wasn't ever recovered,
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correct?
A As I stated earlier that's correct.
Q Okay.
So what I'm saying is not just from W-1's car but
nowhere?
A Best of my knowledge, no, it has not.
Q Um, and finally, um -- well, not finally. You have
no information at all that Mr. Wint is in any way connected
to W-1's car, correct?
A The defendant connected to W-1's car, do I have --
no, I do not.
Q No fingerprints or DNA from Mr. Wint in or on that
car?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection again.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Detective, your information right now is that the
only people that knew about the package or the money to be
delivered, that you know in terms of either texts or phone
calls or statements, are Mr. Savopoulos, W-1, W-2 because
that witness received a text from W-1, and the other employee
at American Iron Works; is that right? I'm sorry, and the
controller. Is that right?
A Yes, yes.
Q You have no other information that anybody else knew
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about money being transacted and delivered to Mr. Savopoulos
from either interviews or phone calls or texts; is that
correct?
A Initially, no. It was the four.
Q Plus the controller is five, right? The controller
was general information, not specific information; is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
And that would make five, right? Correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
Now, W-2, detective. W-2, did you speak to W-2
directly or did -- or, um, did other police officers speak to
W-2?
A Other detectives spoke to him.
Q Was that Williams as well or other officers?
A I can't recall what detective spoke to W-2.
Q Did you speak directly to those detectives or?
A Indirectly.
Q So you went through several people, at least -- at
least one other person?
A I really want to say that Detective Williams did
speak to W-2 but I can't remember specifically, but I did
speak to Detective Williams directly.
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Q Okay.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is your basis of
knowledge for the information in your affidavit concerning
W-2 comes from other police officers, right?
A That's correct.
Q And did you -- did those police officers speak to
W-2 or are we talking about multiple steps between you and
W-2?
A No, it's not multiple steps, it's the -- the
detectives that interviewed W-2, I just can't remember which
ones at this point.
Q Okay.
And when did you become aware of W-2, not you, when
did the police become aware of W-2?
A In speaking to W-1.
Q Is it the same night or the same afternoon, May 14,
or is it on another date?
A The same day.
Q And did the police contact W-2 or did W-2 contact
the police?
A The police contacted W-2.
Q Did the interview of W-2 occur at a police station
or district or over the phone or at another location?
A In person at a police facility.
Q Was that interview -- was there more than one
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interview or just the one?
A Just the one.
Q Was that interview recorded or videotaped?
A Best of my recollection, yes.
Q Did you view that?
A No.
Q Or listen to it? Okay.
And let me ask was W-2 under arrest during the time?
A No.
Q Going back to W-1 briefly, was W-1 under arrest
during that interview?
A No.
Q Were they both free to leave at any point?
A Yes.
Q Now, W-2, um, did W-2 have any agreements -- did W-2
have any agreements or deals with the Government or the
police?
A No.
Q Now, in terms of relationships, the relationships
between W-2 and any party in this case is only with W-1; is
that right?
A That's correct.
Q W-2 has no relationship with the following people as
far as your investigation is revealed: Any member of the
Savopoulos family, Veralitsa Figueroa, Mr. Wint, or any
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family members of Mr. Wint; is that correct?
A Correct to the best of my knowledge, yes, that's
correct, she does not.
Q Now, as far as you know, moving forward a little
bit, when Mr. Wint was, the night that he was arrested, there
were two people in the truck that you testified to earlier?
A Repeat that.
Q There were two people in the truck that you
testified to earlier on the night of Mr. Wint's arrest, do
you remember that truck?
A Correct.
Q And then the car that Mr. Wint was in when he was
arrested there were three other people, all women, in that
car, correct?
A Yes.
Q W-2 has no connection to either of the two people in
the truck or the three people in the car; is that correct?
A Best of my knowledge does not.
Q All right. And W-2 doesn't know any of the people
I've listed other than W-1, right?
A You mean the first and the second time you listed
people?
Q Yes.
A As far as I know, no.
Q Were there any other communications other than --
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I'm going to the text now, between W-1 to W-2 and then
acknowledgement from W-2 back to W-1, of the photo of money
and then comments by W-2, other than those texts, were there
any other communications between W-2 and W-1 about the money
in this case?
A Best of my knowledge, no, that was it.
Q Were there any other communications between W-1 and
W-2 about the facts in this case?
MS. BACH: Objection.
THE COURT: About the facts of the case?
MR. AGO: Yes. So in other words not just delivery
of the money but anything else that's happened in this case.
THE COURT: Overruled, you may answer that.
THE WITNESS: No, not to my knowledge.
BY MR. AGO:
Q And there's -- you've discovered no physical
evidence linking W-2 to 3201, correct? No DNA or
fingerprints, correct?
A Correct.
Q And no DNA or fingerprints connecting W-2 to other
evidence in this case, correct?
A That's correct.
Q Now, W-3, the person that observed the blue Porsche.
Did you speak to W-3 directly or did other police officers
speak to W-3?
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A I spoke to W-3 directly.
Q And you didn't take any notes or write anything down
during the course of that interview; is that right?
A Yes, I did take notes.
Q Was that having to do with what W-3 told you?
A Yes.
MR. AGO: At this point, Your Honor, I'd make that
request.
THE COURT: Counsel, approach.
(Bench conference).
MS. BACH: I'm not sure. He either has it or he
didn't write notes about what he said but I'm just looking.
Court's indulgence. Here we go. It's page -- see, W-3 at
the top. Yeah, they have it.
(Close bench conference).
BY MR. AGO:
Q I'm sorry, detective, I should have asked this,
other than the notes that you provided in the Jencks packet
to the Government, any other notes?
A In reference to W-3, no.
Q Okay.
Now, um, um, did W-3 make itself known to the police
or did the police go out and find W-3?
A W-3 made itself known to the police.
Q Was this in response, according to W-3, was this in
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response to the statement that the police issued looking for
information concerning the blue Porsche?
A Yes.
Q And W-3, um, when you interviewed W-3, was that
interview, um, recorded?
A No.
Q Was that at a district or a homicide?
A No.
Q Um, all right.
And it wasn't -- wasn't in a police location in
other words; is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q And W-3 was not under arrest or detained in any way
during that interview, correct?
A That is correct.
Q Um, now, um, and W-3 did not have any agreements, I
don't know if I asked this, but did not have any agreements
with the police or the Government at the time of the
interview; is that correct?
A W-3 did not.
Q Okay.
Now, um, there is no connection or relationship
between W-3 and anybody in this case; is that right?
A Best of my knowledge, yes, that's right.
Q In other words, W-3 is a stranger to everybody else
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and nobody else in this case knows W-3 as far as you know,
right?
A Best of my knowledge, yes, that's correct.
Q Okay.
And, um, and the way you would describe W-3 is an
independent eyewitness not connected at all to any party in
this case, correct?
A Yes.
Q Am I correct that W-3 was driving on New York
Avenue, Northeast, when it made its observations of the blue
Porsche on the afternoon of May 14th?
A When you say northeast you mean the northeast
quadrant of the city?
Q Yes.
A Yes, that's correct.
Q And -- and what, according to W-3, drew its
attention to the Porsche?
A W -- W-3 stated the Porsche was driving erratically
and was weaving in and out, that's what attracted W-3's
attention to the Porsche.
Q Now, um, how long did W-3 in total observe that
Porsche?
A The time was with -- approximately within a minute.
It wasn't more than a minute.
Q Okay.
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Um, and what -- how -- what was the closest -- let
me -- let me ask this, W-3 was driving at the time, correct?
A Correct.
Q And was W-3 driving in the same direction as the
Porsche was driving or in opposite direction?
A Same direction.
Q When W-3 first noticed the Porsche was the Porsche
behind W-3, to the side or in front of W-3?
A In front.
Q And how close was the Porsche at that point when W-3
first noticed the Porsche?
A I can't give you exact distance.
Q Did you -- did you ask W-3 to estimate distance?
A I know W-3 gave various locations during the
observation to include in the lane next to looking over into
the vehicle, but as far as distance I can't give you exact
distance.
Q Okay, so at some point W-3 was driving its car, and
the Porsche was in the lane next to W-3's car; is that right?
A Yes.
Q And, um, the Porsche, according to W-3 -- the
Porsche is a convertible, am I correct about that?
A Yes.
Q According to W-3 the top was down, correct?
A No, best of my recollection the top was up.
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Q It was up?
A Yes.
Q Okay, but W-3 was able to look -- to see the driver
of the Porsche, correct?
A Correct.
Q And W-3 described the driver as a black man,
correct?
A Yeah.
Q Slim, correct?
A Yes.
Q Late 20s, or early 30s in terms of age, correct?
A Correct.
Q Wearing a dark-colored shirt and on top of it a
bright neon yellow construction vest, correct?
A Correct.
Q And, um, the witness said, W-3 said that the driver
had a short haircut, correct?
A Correct.
Q And, um, and said that the haircut was edged,
correct?
A Yes.
Q And as far as you know -- as far as your
investigation has revealed, Mr. Wint -- there's no way that
he would have had that haircut on May 14th, correct?
A Best of my knowledge, no.
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Q You indicated that, um -- I'm sorry, detective, at
-- W-3 indicated to you that the Porsche was driving in the
direction from downtown Washington, D.C., eastbound on New
York Avenue, Northeast, in the direction of Maryland,
correct?
A You're saying W-3 indicated that?
Q Yes.
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